Who’s Got their 6th Edition 40K Book and what do you think of it?
June 30, 2012 by beerogre
So, slightly before the "official" release of the book, I managed to receive my Big Rulebook from a super-secret insider source... but what do I think of it?
Well... there's more randomness... charge ranges being the big one. Many of the top players I know see this as a blatant attempt to tip the game in favour of newer and less talented players, I'm not as sure, but the introduction of pre-measuring (at any time!) is definitely an advantage new players will benefit from.
Many of the rules have been cleaned up and a lot of special rules have been renamed to make them generic (and more easily found in the new book), a system we saw in Warmachine MkII.
The new psionic rules are proving somewhat controversial, with most wondering if this means that forthcoming Codex releases will reduce the number of "unique" powers available to those future factions (probably to 1 or 2).
But the big shake up is the rules for cover and wound allocation...
It seems we can now only shoot at targets we can see (no change there), but if half a unit is hidden, you can only remove casualties from those that can be shot at... no more removing those "wound guys with Bolt Pistols" hiding around the corner, while the big guns fire at will.
The changes to the wound allocation (you now allocate wounds from the closest to the furthest away) are also designed to prevent this tactic. Of course this will lead to bloodier battles, but there was always something to be said for the tactical arrangement of troops and the knowledge required for an effective allocation of wounds.
Now, these will have to be relearned. Darrell, our resident 40K fan and cheese-hunter claims to have already found some powerful strategies involving the placement of models with varying armour saves... so you can look forward to him trying to explain that in a future video.
There also seems to be some merit to keeping your "Big, Tough, Fighty" heroes at the front, so they can avail of the new "Look Out Sir!" ruling, where they take the brunt of an assault (or salvo of fire) and are then saved at the last minute (i.e. when they are at W:1) by their squad.
Just on character models, we all know by now that the rules for challenging characters is in the book, but who will be the first to break the rules?
Well... the first one I've found is the Imperial Guard Company Commander... or more properly the Bodyguards from the Regimental Advisers. While not strictly "breaking" the rules, they do allow the Company Commander to shift (I mean "allocate") 4 wounds onto the two (15pt) Bodyguards... that's a hell of an advantage.
The big problem I see with these Challenges, is that once again they are aimed at benefiting the Space Marines. They have "big, fighty" heroes who value "honour", but what about the Xenos?
Does the Tyranid Hive Mind even understand what "honour" is in this context?
Do the Eldar give a toss for the "honour on the Mon-Kee"?
Do the Tau feel the need for personal combat (in violation of their edicts) in order to preserve the Greater Good?
How about the Necrons? Well they might have a go, but then they're getting back up anyway.
So it's only really the Orks then, that might enjoy this, but then they're always drunk and angry (at least in my mind), so no real change there!
These are just a few of the changes, the ones I thought we the most fun and/or controversial... but we want to know what you think?
Have you got your book?
When are you getting it?
Do you like the changes?
Are you now going to start 40K?
Are you now giving up?
Have your say today!
Super-cool miniatures images supplied by Worthy Painting.
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i have the book for the last 2 days i quite like the changes (im now bringing 2 master of runes runepriest for a reason (maybe once or so) hmm imm gonna buy some crisis suits to piss of enemy marines =]
My CE comes next week and a regular copy should arrive on Monday… So I’ll have a read through and see. I’m looking forward to it, as more of a casual player who’s stepped back from the gaming and become more of a ‘hobbyist’ it might draw me back into it. Who knows… we’ll see I guess 🙂
Listening to Blue Table Painting 6th edition comentary on Youtube now – they’re reading the book and commenting – it’s tempting ….
I received my book yesterday, beautiful art, not wuite finished reading through it but the changes dont seem so huge compared to what I was expecting from all the hype. As for the wound allocation: to me it made sense that when a guy with a big gun falls, another with a lowly bolter might pick up his weapon and keep fighting, seems a waste to leave the big guns in the dirt as it now will be.
Thinking about it though, you’ve got incoming enemy fire, do you stand where your mate got killed and strip his body of weaponry and ammunition while the shells are flying past?
and he was probably trained to use it and you weren’t
PS still don’t like the Allies rules 🙂
@kane I’m ambivalent about the allies rules… I don’t think their as exciting or potentially abusive as they could have been.
I’ll be interested to see if the allies rules are permitted in the ETC tournaments… that’s were it really counts… as we can use any rules we want at home.
Because we’re all a bit mad, we’ve been playing ‘allied’ games around here, but usually as four/three players (to get new guys invovled while one person gm’s, as it were). It’s obviously a cynical ploy to get people to buy more models, but that’s ok – I like the idea of DE helions alongside Necron ghost arks.
However there is the possiblity of unbalanced games: we had an almighty shock that guard flamer/chimera troops and marine assault troops were lethal against tyranids. That’s the only game where we’ve won by turn two. Won as in “charred remains’ – seven or eight models, our side untouched type win.
True 🙂
I have had a look at the book, not got my copy yet. Overall looks like a return to fun, dynamic principles the same that were much maligned in 8th ed fantasy.
Will be interesting to see Darrell’s take on wound allocation, as I have already see some very bad misconceptions that come from choosing to reading rules in isolation and ignoring other sections of the rules. There are definately a few ways to abuse the wound allocation – but fewer than before, they take planning and effort and can be countered.
No real point looking at army specifics until the FAQs are up, as this will bring everything into line.
Not seeing the issue with challenges – as you can always find justifications, tyranids animalistic nature, Tau/necrons calculating its the best course of action, Eldar warrior pride/honour etc
I do want to see how the vehicle rules play out, and rail guns are a major threat now, same with the overwatch fire/new assault rules. Until you see it in action I think its hard to judge the impact it will have.
Also looking at new monsterous creature rules, not a major change but could definately see a nidzilla list being a bit more viable. Plus bigger points means more troops, and the missions means fexs could be scoring units.
Urgh Blue Table Painting the voice of the chap on the videos is pure aural assault – on par with listening to ITVs euro coverage. I am sure its interesting but urgh, I know he cannot help the way he talks but I cannot get past it.
I think the ally rules suit 40k better than fantasy, just think they missed the chance to have guard take nids to return the old cult list.
Section I am dreading reading is the background, I am sure they will find ways to make me rage in there 🙁
Is that the “omg he’s married!? to a woman!?” guy?
No idea I managed about a minute twice
If he is well done to him
FAQs are up
Where can I find the FAQs?
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/article.jsp?categoryId=1000018&pIndex=1&aId=3400019&start=2
Got my book today and had a feverish look through it, but was too distracted by the new artwork and I’m interested to read about “the end of mankind” lol.
Having allies does make sense when you use armies that would fight together. You could devise a scenario where an Eldar Farseer is turning rogue and allies with the Dark Eldar.
Issuing a challenge doesn’t have to be taken so literally. It could, as mentioned above by @dags, be that a commander has singled out the enemy commander as a target of import to destroy one-on-one, not just as a grandiose personal challenge between marine vs. chaos marine leaders or orks.
I bought 5th Ed a year or so but hadn’t played a game with it as I got more into converting minis again this year, so with the new edition I’m gonna try to get an army painted and will be trying to learn the rules this time.
Hmm, BoW videos on how to play it would be handy. 😉
Ah they have errata’d the LOS argh for IG bodygaurds
Where Can I see the FAQ’s ??
NM, I found them !! =)
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/article.jsp?categoryId=1000018&pIndex=1&aId=3400019&multiPageMode=true&start=2
Really, really don’t like the random run/charge. It’s daft. I don’t walk, then lurch into a run only to tip toe further than I’ve gone before. It’s yet *more* dice rolling.
Before 6th came out we already played that a run was twice your movement and will probably keep that. As a chum said, with every dice roll you have chance replace choice.
I like hull points. Not losing to glancing is a good thing. The smash rules for monstrous creatures against vehicles thing is good, but losing the 2d6 is interesting. Grenades are finally useful and rapidfire has been fixed. No more of this daft can’t move at full range so ghost arks will be handy.
Deepstrike is *still* an obnoxious turk and they haven’t fixed that except make it less likely to lose a unit, so daemons are still sodding hard work to play with.
I keep coming back to random charges. We played a 1500 pointer, daemons and nids vs necrons and the amount of blasted dice rolls for running was bonkers. Charging on top of that, crikey, we’ll be there all week. You know what’ll happen though – you declare a charge, you’re only 5″ away and you roll a 3. Flippin heck, you do not randomly run!
Fear seems pointless, as things with low leadership are generally hordes or fearless or no threat to the unit that’s fearsome. It made sense to drop those rules in 5th.
All the vector strikes and winged beasties need to get my head around. Some good, some not so good. Annoyed that a Leman Russ wasn’t made ‘heavy’, but snapfire seems a good idea. Cover is finally sensible – no more 4+ invuns for you, mr nids! But overall I think some got nerfed (assault armies) and some got better (gunline armies with tanks).
It’s early days though, but already I can see me worrying far, far less about having three valkyries with melta vets in them hanging over a bunch of necrons in ghost arks knowing they’ll not go down to a luck shot.
Agree with you 100 per cent…Haven’t read everything yet, but so far sounding good. The one thing I hate is random charge…Was the reason I didn’t go for fantasy…
Yup. Took the dog for a walk, and had him running around like a loon. Oddly, he didn’t at one point move more slowly than if he were walking.
ahhh but was he covering broken ground ? Assaulting means you are looking straight ahead and running over possibly uneven surface, loose rubbl etc. There is a chance you might slip or stumble, hence you won’t achieve your maximum distance.
I don’t see a problem with variable distance
T’was in the New Forest and as a newfoundland, most of it was water, mud, dirt and what seems to be half a tree (we’re still cleaning up).
Whenever something’s random you cannot plan. It forces chance instead of choice and makes the game much less tactical, which is annoying. I don’t think it holds. There’s already difficult terrain tests. Any other terrain is ‘clear’ and distances should be fixed. We won’t make charges random in our group.
well Bubbles15 actually …normal armies in teh field have to deal with that as well dont see it as random see it as you have to be more tactical to get in a position were you can be sure to get your attack through or you have to deal tactical with the situation after a mischarge.
Fixed distances are just abstract.
How the hell can Ezekiel, the most powerful Librarian in the 1st Leigon (Dark Angels) only be mastery level 1?????
I know were more then likely to get our new codex by the end of the year/early next year, but your taking the piss ain’t you GW.
I think that’s because he could only cast 1 power per turn previously, although since they’ve changed other stuff entirely in the FAQ’s you think he’d have gotten 2. I’m personally hoping he becomes a complete and utter badass in the new ‘dex. After the last 2 FAQ’s gimped him he deserves it.
Well I think it’s a fairly safe bet the the Dark Angels codex is just around the corner so he could get a rewrite. Given the trend of Space Marine codices I’m sure there will be something ‘broken’ about the Dark Angels. Probably in the form of some kind of flyer based on the WHFB trend of ‘everyone gets a huge monster’. I would even hazard a guess that it will be Ravenwing centric, the Fantasy orcs have a giant spider but thats firmly in the savage goblin fluff which doesn’t lend itself easily to a ‘traditional’ orc army. So I think the DA will get a niche flyer that wont be a troop transporter but will be cooler than the storm talon. either that or they will kick DA players in the nuts and say ‘you can use the Stormtalon too’ 😉
Ain’t got the book yet. It’s in the mail and I expect it to arrive at the begginning of next week.
By what I hear, it will be a very hard time for my Orks… I hope at least my Imperial Guards perform better.
One of my friends will be glad to see that the Tau seem to be back in the fight, even without a new Codex!
Imperial guard are going to be fantastic. Hull points really, really make Chimera rush tactics workable and dangerous. That and fast vehicles now being able to move 12 and fire twice is handy as our Banewolves are truly vunderbar now.
I don’t really see how Hull Points make things better. You can still get a penetrating hit, and the vehicle can be destroyed, but now even after glancing hits, you lose Hull Points(HP). Once all the HPs are gone the vehicle is wrecked.
It’s the light weapons that normally could have immobilised/weapon destroyed you. Now you keep going until everything’s gone.
Also with heavy vehicles glancing hits were the ultimate annoyance as you’d be getting shake/stunned and it would make no real difference. Now you can knock a stormraven down wmore easily.
I plan to start up 40k once they release the next starter set. I first wanted to start about 4 years ago with Grey Knights (before their new codex cheese) then Space Wolves about 2 years ago, then the new codex came out for them and then they were suddenly ‘cheese’ too, (I’m ‘anti-cheese’, by the way).
Since then I’ve been really interested in Chaos Space Marines (I know their codex is out of date.. aesthetics can win games though!). If the starter set does come with CSM, I’ll be very happy!
Does anyone know if there is a release date on that set?! I’d love you for about 5 minutes until I forgot who you are, if you can tell me!
Can’t link you to any “bullet-proof” posts regarding the release dates, but accordings to the general concensus it’s expected to arrive this late summer, september’ish or so
In the grim darkness of the far future.. There is always CHEESE.
There is lots more cheese to be found with every codex out at the moment when applying it to the new rules. And with new faq’s and codexs it will just get better.. or cheesier
Around September is the general rumor on the web.
Dang! Waiting is the hardest part *cries a single tear*
Also Chaos should have a new codex by the years end I believe
But an army is often only as cheesy as you make it
I’ll be picking this book up, if the reviews are good, with a 25% discount from the endless number of online retailers who provide such a discount.
Might as well take advantage. By the time 40K 7th edition comes along GW will have stopped supplying online retailers.
@happyhowler FAQs linky
https://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/article.jsp?categoryId=600005&pIndex=1&aId=3400019&multiPageMode=true&start=2
@dags: Many thanks!
Just got my copy. And it was full of bubbles!
The Allies is a nerfed add on to the games really cool combo lists all are non scoring and reap zero benifit from AOE put out by special characters of main army. To field only different color Space Marines is uneventful. Would of liked to seen necrons and Orks band with full on abilities. Could care less about the fluff that would argue different.
Orks did get a spanking should of been aimed more towards GK.
They took away the Target Lock for Crisis Suits? Lame. Although Stealth Suits are finally worth taking with Shrouded and Stealth! I stopped using them ages ago because everyone seemed to be able to roll enough to see them.
They mentioned Assault Vehicles but not which vehicles have the assault special rule in the appendix. Must wait for new codex I guess. As a Tau player and Space Wolves I like the new Random Assault.
Why haven’t stormravens been faq’d as flyers and glaive encarmines been clarified
What needs clarifying with glaive encarmines?
If you get a strength bonus form using them. As it stands, they’re not a very efficient unit.
Vanguard veterans with lightning claws are better value, but that’s min/maxing.
Although they do have 2+ armour saves, but I am still wary of any one wound models costing 40 points – one crappy turn and the units can be in big trouble.
@bubbles15 I don’t see them getting a str bonus, unless they’re modelled with the axe, since that would be completely changing their rules, sure they are kinda naff but I don;t see that changing
@dags Do not underestimate 2+ saves, especially with FNP backup vs the likes of plasma now. My Deathwing command squad took a hell of a lot of punishment from GK’s today and only lost two guys.
Death company just beat them. power weapon, bolt pistol, in an assault vehicle and suddenly 5 attacks, 6 on the charge (per man) at strength 5 ws 5?
Still need to read about disembarking from fast vehicles but I assume move 12, disembark, then assault gives them a staggering range. Add a Chappers and suddenly you’ve 60 attacks, rerolling to hit and to wound. Is there anything that would stop that?
And grenades. Oh, thank you. Guardsmen blobs. 25 small blast templates will thin out any horde.
@bigbri – I wasn’t doubting the effectiveness of 2+ save, just I have had and seen lots of turns where suddenly you roll 4 1’s for saves, which for these small high point cost units effectively removes them from an active part in the game. Its is because of that I am wary of 1 wounds big point models
From what I’ve read, you can’t disembark from a vehicle that moves more than 6 inches (page 79 “Disembarking”) Am I reading that right?
Yeah not keen on what they seem to imply for Orks, although your waargh turn is much bigger – rereolled charge distance plus the fleet, probably drops out a turn of enenmy shooting, although now rapid fire can backway and still hit at range.
Not see how many hull points trukks have, despite the assault from fast vehicle nerf they could be more reliable to drop a first wave, especially as glances will leave wreaks for cover.
Also Stormboys on a waargh turn are looking dirty.
Dammit just looking at the FAQ and now I so want to do a grotsnik/cyborg grot spam army – for no other reason than because.
“for no other reason than because.”
The best reason for an army 🙂
Have you seen something I haven’t? I get the impression you think fleet let’s you run and charge. It doesn’t, it just let’s you refill your run or one dice from your charge
Ah have they changed fleet, does it no longer provide a d6 move? Sorry working from bits I have scanned. If thats the case it is a bad edition for orks/nids infantry. Refill your run? sorry not sure what that means
Stormboys should still be good on a waargh turn.
Sorry, meant to say reroll but typing on my phone so it auto corrects stuff. I think its still a good rule, say on one of the charge dice you roll a 1, get it rerolled and presto, you just made it a 6.
No worries my phone is a nightmare for that, my typing doesn’t help it either. Ah so the D6 move from fleet has gone. Well got to say that is a pretty heavy nerf for infantry assaulkt armies – previous move 6, fleet D6 (waargh for Orks) and then assault 6 replaced with move 6 assault 2D6 rerolled – is about an inch charge range lost, maybe more.
@maxwelledison CHeck the reference section of the rulebook, see the unit type and hull points of the stormraven. The glavies should of been clarfied, they will either be special power weapons so follow codex rules or mastercrafted power axes I guess.
The glaives will be either a MC power sword or axe depending on what’s on the model
Cool, can’t wait to get my book, only two weeks til payday 🙁
I have to wait for my Birthday, so broke at the moment, so 6 weeks-ish but got hols and stuff, plus gives me a deadline to finish my fantasy army
You know what I’m looking forward too? 50man guard blobs with heavy weapons. the front guys can move towards combat while the heavy weapons sit at the back still shooting 😀
Me too… but then, when you can field 12 auto cannon bases and want to redeploy you at least have a chance of hitting something.
I’m still wondering how vehicles manage to move at the same speed as me walking. Even at their slowest a modern tank physically can’t move that slowly. It’d stall!
I still want to know when Live Rounds is going to be on?
Yeah a simple live battle report going through a game with 6th would be excellent – add the army building bit in later.
Yes more Live rounds please ! (More than none that is)
Any comments on the quality of the book yet? Pages falling out, repetitive fluff, new fluff, timeline changes etc etc
Mine seems pretty well made, nice thick covers, stitching seems fine. I’ve already manhandled mine a lot since my fav reading position is lying on my book holding the book up and I keep dropping it lol and no sign of problems.
Cheers 🙂
The one I have browsed and handled seemed well made, art was fantastic and rules are layed out logically and well presented.
Background is my worry area. I cannot see timeline advancing.
Girlpainting has a video up showing the book, around 4:40 in she shows a fold out section and the stitching looks pretty crude and the pages look a little loose …
Moving and shooting is now on model by model basis. So it is no longer the case that the whole unit is counted as moving if one model moves. I like the more intuitive rules they are easy to remember but you’ll have to keep tabs on what figures moved in your opponents army.
How about split fire? Is that in there? I must say, needing 6s to hit a charging unit is silly .. If someone comes at you with a pair of power-tweezers and you are carrying a rocket propelled bolter there is absolutely no reason to panic. 40k manages to stay conservative and afraid of new things, despite this being the 6th release …
@hatamoto Yes split fire is in there but model has to have the rule it’s not for every unit
Power tweezers are dangerous, you can have someone’s eyebrows out if you aren’t careful.
I think 6’s to hit is in part a game mechanics – otherwise it would be too effective.
Also logically its easy to say no reason to panic but I doubt its that clear cut if you get into a situation like that, also you looking at scoring telling hits.
So that’s why they jacked the price up on all their terrain.
depends on your usual table layouts – as long as the table has a reasonable amount of terrain I think I’d spend my points on troops rather a piece of terrain …. but then again I haven’t seen the book yet 🙂
Split fire is a special rule? I guess some units also have the common sense special rule then? 😉
My copy didn’t arrive. Bloody Royal Mail!
Still not sure I am keen on the allies system. The Battle Brothers whereby Space Marine ally with each other, is fine and in fact very logical. But Tau and Space Marine etc…?Hmm… As a sales strategy it is excellent and GW will have people buying more. The gaming customers will ultimately decide if it will be successful. I can see many young players loving to mix their codex with other armies’ unit.
Not much mention of the different weapons in close combat. Whilst it adds depth to the close combat it will slow down the turn as you need to know what weapon each of the figures have. Also implies this should be recorded on the army list.
For example khorne berserkers do the models have chain swords or chain axes ? as these behave differently in combat. 5th edition just treated all close combat weapons the same.
I’d imagine it’s what you buy. After all, just ask your opponent. My assault squads are the old – very old – metal models when you got one chainsword per sprue, so I just said to my opponent, they’re all close combat weapons apart from the sergeant with a powerfist. Just be a good sport and your opponent will tell you.
After all, if someone wants to cheat to win a game of toy soldiers they’ve other problems. Do bear in mind that cheating is very different to not understanding the rules. I for one really am struggling with the skimmer/flyer/fast skimmer thinges but my landspeeders can move 12″ and fire both weapons now, as can the storm talon.
I’ve read the rules and I’am looking forward to trying them out.
I have to armies Eldar and Dark Angels of the two i reckon my Eldar benifited the most especially their tanks.
AP2 weaponary is now more effective against armour. The damage table has now changed you will only get stunned on a 3 couple that with their Holo fields, Spirit stones and forcefields and they now get jink as well.
Psykers are going to worth considering if your army dosn’t have one. I may resurrect my Double Farseer list.
The missions have been improved and their is now interactive terrain and artefacts thrown in. Rivers woods and objects that can harm or protect your army.
So far I like what I have read it looks like it will be a bit of fun
Please bear in mind I only game purely for fun I’m not a serious player.
Oh yes I can’t remember who but someone asked earlier in this thread about the quality of the book. Glad to report mine is still looking good unlike my High Elves codex which fell apart in a week.
I’d prefer to wait for the boxed set. Carrying round a huge rule book and army appears too much like hard work. And , at £60 quid for a book, no thanks!
Waylands price for the rulebook is £36 …
http://www.waylandgames.co.uk/games-workshop/warhammer-40k/warhammer-40-000-rulebook-6th-edition-english/prod_16991.html
I feel as if they have stripped out a lot of the “let’s dumb this game done for 10 year olds” stuff, but I also feel like they’ve stripped out a lot of the “also, let’s add needlessly complicated stuff as well” stuff (though vehicle pen is still there, sigh). It looks like it might be a lot smoother.
However many of these rules seem to demand a points change across the board. Special weapons I would single out, now that wound allocation allows them to be taken out easier (if you actually want them to be of any use) this suggests to me an across-the-board points decrease.
Why does the ‘development ‘ of the 40k rules remind me of Captain Blackadders comment on the progress of WWI.
‘ Another gargantuan effort to move Fieldmarshall Haig’s drinks cabinet, a few more inches closer to Berlin. ‘(lol)
Compared to to the rule sets of other games.40k rules STILL seem ‘old fashioned and clunky.’
And quite franky I was hoping for a rule set written specificaly for the game play of 40k.(Complete overhaul/re-write.)
A rule set that is well defined and easy to learn.But with the depth of game play to keep all levels of gamer happy for years.
But 40k is STILL struggeling with a large discrepancy between the over complication in the rules compared to its relative straight forward game play.
(As poosh pointed out).
Perhaps its because GW plc corperate managment belive its core demoghraphic is ‘children’.
Where as it would be better if it the core demoghraphic was re-defined as ‘gamers’.IMO.
As lots of other great rule sets that are gaining popularity seem to write rules for ‘gamers’ , rather than ‘age groups’?
If 40k could just attain the level of definition and elegance of rule sets from last century , I might be tempted back…
At $100.80 I do not think I can even aford the new book. Some of the new rules sound realy interesting. Abd I would love to try them out. But if no one in my playing group can aford the new book we my just go back to 4th edition. I’m waiting to see if I can go halfers on the new starter box.
Haven’t got rule book as not wish to pay £45 for a game I’m already not liking, wound allocation to me means the game is now static, the last edition tried to make the game fluid, but this takes everything as stopping when your turn ends. A moving squad is still moving when your turn ends, unless they didn’t move or went to ground in your turn. And how can they guarantee that every shot hits the front rank? This is like the Napoleonic Wars!! Also don’t like the Challenge rule more like 40kBC!! Leaders lead.
Here’s a nice summary to the new 6th edition…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pm6tztVuhNc&feature=related
I think I’ll wait for 7th edition that will probably come out in the next 5 years. My friends are of a similar thread. till then I’ll catch up on my painting.
That’s not a bad idea, the thing that’s causing complication is the old codices using terms that mean different things, or nothing in 6th, Unless GW seriously ramp up how often they bring new stuff out that’ll still be the case for most armies in 3 or 4 years, meaning we’ll probably get a year or two at most of things being relatively simple before they hit us in the face with 7th…
I have just finished reading mine through for the first time, I am guilty of 40k bashing, however despite my distaste for the pricing of this game. I do believe GW made some key positive changes.
I would still like to see BoW get into the frey concerning the new rule book. Will this happen anytime soon???
W.Y.S.I – W.Y.G RULE – (what you see is what you get) is forever out the window for atleast me. I see alot of bit changes coming down the pipe for 2 of the three armies I own, will not even try to retool them.
Its cheaper to mix and match factions
Anyone noticed Power Weapons are AP3 now? So Eldar can kiss goodbye anti-termy Howling Banshees, and I really feel bad for Dark Eldar, whose Incubi Klaives (being the only reliable standard unit for anti 2+ saves in combat) are now AP3 as well according to FAQs…
I think 6th ed has nerfed a lot, and *somehow* managed to favour the Space Marines. AGAIN.
-.-
I’d say the marines and the guard both get about as much out of the rules I’ve seen so far, with the power weapons getting AP values etc Iron hand Straken gets an unintentional boost since he simply ignores saves, the changes to squadrons help out Valkyries, hellhounds and the mighty leman russ, that if i’ve read that bit right becomes a freakin’ scoring unit in some missions..
I think the Allies chart is quite absurd. Dark Eldar and Eldar can be “Battle Brothers”, but Sisters of Battle and Grey Knights are only Allies of Convenience? Weren’t the SOBs part of the original Grey Knight army book? I play Sisters, and I was hoping for access to some kind of assault vehicle, but allies can’t embark on transports from another army. IG may be good allies, but I have SOB and Space Marines. I don’t really want to buy more models and another codex for allies. I like the Fortifications, but they only list the models they sell. Why not trenches, redoubts, barricades, razorwire, mine fields and tank traps too? In the field, troops would be more likely to dig in and fortify their positions. These are listed under “Battlefield Debris”, so they can be terrain, but they can’t be purchased and used.
Sisters were not part of the daemon hunters list, they were the witchhunters, and portrayed more as an anti psyker force, since every single grey knight is a psyker, and allied to a different ordo of the inquisition, It makes a sort of twisted sense they’d not be fully trusting allies.
Well, I would think the opposite is true. Sisters have no psykers and no defense against them, so shouldn’t they welcome psychic help? Wouldn’t Sisters rather trust Grey Knights or Space Marines instead of Imperial Guard? Sisters seem an anti-xeno force to me.
That is logical. You don’t need logic when you’re talking about 40k fluff 😛
In game the sisters are probably more suited to fighting xenos, but the anti xeno force in the fluff is actually the Deathwatch, although they had their rules re-appropriated in codex space marines as vanguard veterans – but now they’re actually usable as the deathwatch, a librarian and a vanguard squad from codex space marines in black armour as allies to any of the other imperial forces and Robert is the fraternal sibling of your parent.
I think contending with Army lists that have more than one faction is the new harsh reality for those who want to squeak by without buying anymore figures or codexes. As far as playing in a competitive capacity.
However it will be a very harsh reality for those who wish to organize league play as well.
Having to name what H.Q’s and characters allowed, to avoid any Grey Knight syndrome from transpiring. I think GW are reaching for the beer and peanut crowd more so than the uber crazed competitive player which may not totally be a bad thing…
Well I can’t wait to get my copy. Presumably 40K is the most successful wargame ever? Why would anyone rewrite as opposed to tweak it?
Having said that the Eurozone and the US seem to have it available for peanuts!!!
Here in NZ its 145 NZD list price…..thats over 70quid!!!!
We used to be able to get free shipping from Wayland games etc i.e. if still allowed by GW I would be able to get it for 60 NZD i.e. 30 quid.
Are there any budding investigative journalists out their?
I’d guess GW legal would have checked for liability and loopholes before imposing the international trade embargo but have you tried checking with the NZ/Oz equivalent of Which magazine or whichever gov’t department looks after trade/commerce …
From the videos I’ve seen the changes in 6th are very appealing (apart from Allies which strike me as a way for the cheesy to plug gaps in their army and a way for GW to sell more minis and codexes) – elements of my beloved 2nd Ed with tweaks to bring them up to date – still has the IGYG limitations but to change that would (probably) require a complete rewrite of all current Codexes which is a) a big risk when your customers seem to like/tolerate IGYG, b) expensive to the company and c) prohibitively expensive to customers … looking forward to the BoW commentators getting stuck in 🙂
@kane, I agree it does hark back to 2nd, although the combat will be considerably quicker. I cannot see GW changing the basic format – partly as this is a stable also because I no longer think they have a design studio able/capable of choosing to take risks and try big changes. That is likely as much to do with company policy as it is personel.
I do think a big reset a’la fantasy 5th is required (Think it was 5th – the whole core/special etc) is needed.
I like that they are encouraging allies – it works well background wise but I agree in most pick up games it will be a min/max stick. In friednly there was nothing to stop it anyway. Although hopefully it will encourage more people to explore narrative games.
Just off the top of my head: flyers are ruddy lethal now. Especially the Necron doomscythe. Move 18″, get hit on a 6 and can jink and fire that damned deathray. There’s very little that’ll effectively deal with that!
Flyers are good, but I think the flyer spam I have seen some people suggest may not be as effective as they think due to manoverability issues.
Also I could be wrong but I thought if a flyer Jinked it cannot fire non-roll to hit weapons next turn, which makes a big difference. Althought twin linked tesla destructors ain’t too shabby.
Looked good flicking through in the shop and I hear its looking like a much better game….I shall have to try it before deciding re GW lovin
I think its a great book, I have to say.
Now, I play in a group that still pulls out second edition and all the dark millenium cards on occasion, so the rules are never a big deal for us, we just ignore ones we dont like at the best of times anyway, but as an entity I really like whats in this.
I like the allies rules – preface by saying I dont ever play against min maxers so whether its exploitable wont ever effect me- for us fluff and storytelling type gamers this is great, I like how flyers work, and I like the idea that sitting in transports all day isnt really valid as a tactic any more, because that got old real quick.
The fluff hasnt been warded to any extent and the hobby pages are reasonable, although back in the old days they would teach you how to build cityscapes or whatever using card and modelling materials, now its get 20 imperial sector boxes and take the sprues to make this, which is kind of dissapointing, showing buildings containing £600 of terrain kits arent much help to anyone , so a bit of a thumbs down there, despite how good the things actually looked.
As with all editions, they will have rules that dont sit well in how we play, same with most people I should think,my advice is to do what we do, ignore them.
“As with all editions, they will have rules that dont sit well in how we play, same with most people I should think,my advice is to do what we do, ignore them.”
Hear hear 🙂
I don’t find the tables disappointing I use them for inspiration and make scenery out of cardboard same as always 🙂
All the talk of allies. Did it ever stop anyone actually throwing armies together if they wanted to previously?
Three kids with three armies and one table. How do they all get to play? Simple.
The only table you need is the one you play on.
Of course this is slightly different if it allows an individual to make up an army from two factions. If I was at all cynical I would say that it is codifying sales as much as which armies go together.
Fluff-wise the Allies table is ridiculous and smacks of marketing. Eldar and Dark Eldar?! Imperium (Dark Angels/IG) and Orks??!! Talk about purging the xenos…
You are right Jester. Eldar and Dark Eldar are “Battle Brothers”? What a load! I play Sisters, so my kick a$$ allies are the tough and mighty Imperial Guard? Really?? Sisters are already weak up close. Why wouldn’t the Space Marines or the Grey Knights be the perfect match for the Sisters? They have the same armor and many of the same weapons.
I think GW did a market research project to find out the armies that people have, then cross-matched what most people didn’t have so they could push people to buy another army and book to make more money. Also the fortification rules are okay, but they never seem to go far enough. GW always seems to reach the “okay” level with their games and rule, and never quite reach the “awesome” level. For example, they keep putting out new games and rules, and they never fill in the gaps of their products, ie, plastic Sisters of Battle, flyers for every army, assault vehicles for every army etc.
I don’t have my book yet but I do not like how it looks for my Eldar Farseers. Psychic Mastery level 1!!! Load of Crap.
HI Kane.
Changing the game turn mechanic from alternating game turn to alternating game phase is reasonably straight forward.
Eg
Player A moves.
Player B moves.
Player A shoots.
Player B shoots.
Player A assaults.
Player B assaults.
(Rolling for initiative at the start of each game turn.)
The real problem is 40k rules arrives at the game play via 25 years of backward compatibility.Resulting in overcomplication and counterintuitive gameplay.
Using the WHFB game mechanics to allow cross over from the then more popular WHFB sort of made sense back in 1988.And still worked quite well with the detailed skirmish games RT and 2nd ed were.(As the characterful rules , and detail distracted from the ‘clunkyness’ a bit.)
But were totaly unsuitable for the battle game 3rd ed 40k onwards has become.(Compared to many alternatives.)
I think the current game play of 40k is great, a nice mix of narative focused straight forward interaction.
Its just a shame the rule set is written for WHFB,(ancient warfare focusing on hth.)
Then bodged up to try to make it ‘different ‘/fit the expected 40k game play in a haphazard sort of way.(Thats why rules changes that mimic WHFB seem to be an improvment!)
Rather than written directly for the modern battle wargame 40k currently looks like it should be.
‘Proper’ game development of 40k could deliver twice as much game play with half the pages of rules.(If we use the excellent SGs as an indicator of potential.)
But while the GW plc corperate managment belive 40k should be focused on ‘selling toy soldiers to children’.Then each edition will just wobble back and forth around the ‘meta median’,’sovling some problems’ and putting others in to be ‘solved’ next edition…
Most 40k player enjoy 40k despite the ‘old fashioned clunky ‘WHFB based rule set.
I wonder how popular 40k would be with well defined ,intuitive modern rule set.?
“The real problem is 40k rules arrives at the game play via 25 years of backward compatibility.Resulting in overcomplication and counterintuitive gameplay.”
That’s the point – if corporate believe that a complete rewrite would alienate existing 40k players they won’t risk it
First off I don’t have the book yet, (I live wayyy overseas) but there is so much coverage on the webs I can get the general gist as well as some pretty specific info.
I’ve played every version of 40k on and off since 2nd ed, and generally I would say this edition takes most of the good stuff of previous 40k editions as well as a few new concepts from Fantasy, and molds and fits them together to create 6th ed. Honestly I don’t feel there is anything radically new to the rules that hasn’t been done before in some flavor or another. With maybe the exception of flyers. Take the CC weapons getting AP and variable St now; it was like that in 2nd ed and Necromunda. Snap fire, was overwatch… basically. But it’s more like overwatch 2.5… useful for many situations… like moving vehicles or shooting at flyers. And so on…
For me the game’s biggest move, and I’m sure a lot of people feel the same, was the allies rules. The most obvious combi’s that were famous are now possible again. CSM and Daemons for example. But it also gives the opportunity to really add in some variety to each book as well as a great chance for modeling and making your army unique.
Like I came up with this force idea for Tau, since Eldar are battle brothers with Tau, you could Take a Farseer, Rangers and a Wraithlord and model them as a techmarine-esque battlesuit as a support commander representing the farseer; the Rangers could be those railrifle pathfinders, and you could make a mecha to represent the wraithlord (maybe like the one from cool mini:
http://www.coolminiornot.com/260794?browseid=2065590 )
Or maybe make some small mecha and have them be warwalkers… etc.
Basically I think because of this everyone’s 1st 1000 pts will be similar from their core book… but after that because of this option the possibilities are way open… maybe not as crazy as Rogue Trader but something you could have a lot of fun with… and a lot less rock, paper, scissors… it’s about time they threw in some lizard, spock.
Nice idea but that’s not really allies – it’s Tau with an Eldar profile, the idea (to me) of an army book is to give a force with pros and cons, you exploit the pros and fill in the cons with tactics not by pulling in a unit from a different army, otherwise you may as well have a generic set of profiles with Tau/Eldar/Imperial names for each unit ….
… and, yes, I still hate the idea of all infantry having the same movement rate lol 🙂
BTW – what are the flyer rules like?
@kane first off let me say sorry this came out as such a long message. 😉
i agree that my idea is not really allies but like you mentioned before the rule is just a way to fill in gaps in your army. Obviously you don’t seem to be a big fan of the rule, and in an ideal perfectly balanced game I agree there is no need. Play with what you got. However with 13 or so main factions, developed at different times over different versions, etc.. there is no way to balance a game like this… personally i think that kind of balance is only possible in board/card games and pc games. Where everything is developed and put out as a set. But 40k development is too organic. So you get armies which don’t have a lot of pros/cons or depth depending when they are in the game rules. Allies allows you to add to a force using your own discretion in a set framework of rules. Now if a persons goal is to fill every hole in their book, I agree that could be annoying. I say stick with the original theme of your army, if you chose a CC army like orks or BA stick with that theme try to stay within that theme by taking units that enhance CC or go about it differently but are still CC. Orks taking the field with Broadsides doesn’t really fit in my mind. But if you’re going to have a system like that then you have accept people will want to use it for different reasons. And in the end I’d rather keep things open than restricted. Something useful should not be withheld simply because some tend to abuse it. And abuse is very subjective. Besides, nothing better than beating a cheeser right? 😀
Anyway, the main point for me to do something like that is purely aesthetic/narrative. Personally I don’t see Eldar allying that well with Tau. So in my head I want to create a reason for these units to be on the board working together. But if I were to use IG I wouldn’t change them except for maybe a few customization jobs on the IG models, simply because of the Gue’la element. Or if I used SM I would leave them as is, because there is a history of mutual respect in the fluff and I could totally see them working together as brothers in arms. Professional soldier with professional soldier.
Same goes if I used DE in an Eldar force, even though they are the same race… I don’t really see them working together… and while I would probably Use DE minis I would definitely convert them to be more craft worldy. I.e. no spikes, skulls etc…
HI kane.
I find it odd GW plc corperate managment wont let the game developers re-write the rules for fear of loosing customers.
Yet they are quite happy to drive customers away with massive price hikes, ‘Finecrap fiasco’, RoW trade embargo , heavy handed C&D letters to fan sites etc…