Are Mantic Going Sci-Fi?
May 20, 2011 by beerogre
If you missed TURN 8 last night, then you may not have heard about the leaked pictures we have uncovered, that seemed to originate from Mantic Games.
Here they are, now in glorious Hi-Resolution, after Lloyd has worked his digital magic on them.
As you can see there are a number of vehicles including one that was obviously designed by a fan of the Thundercats!
This is exciting stuff, the potential for a sci-fi game on the scale of Kings of War is a mouthwatering prospect... perhaps that might help to soften the blow of the latest GW price announcements.
BoW Andy
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It looks like a mashup of Squats and Voltron. The Hummer might be a keeper for my traitor geard if it turns out to be true.
I imagine if they created something that could do as female Imperial guard they would clear up.
Hear that , Mantic! female Imperial guard! Sound’s like a winner to me! Youguyz got away with ripping off GW so far so why not beat them at their own game? especially with the introduction of “Fine cast” I think players will be deserting GW in droves soon?
Yeah it was mentioned on 40k radio a while ago, they said thet they were going “Gothic Sci-Fi” a.k.a… 40k! Love you Mantic, we can beat the price increases!
Can They stop copying GW? For the love of God Mantic. Your business practices are on the same level a GW.
In Mantics defence They aren’t copying GW they have created a range of generic fantasy armies. If they happen to be competing with GW then that can only be good for the hobby. I for one appreciate the alternative option.
No. They are. Look at the range, they may be generic, but all the troop choises are the same of Warhammer. The Orcs slogan was “why pay more?” implying for Warhammer orc players to buy from them since they sell them cheaper. When they announced The Abyssal Dwarf they where called Khaos Dwarf so the Warhammer player would take a look at them but at the last minute change the names so they dont have any legal issues. They are making now Goblins as a Army, for what? To acompany the Orcs for what? For the Warhammer player. On the… Read more »
While I’ll partially agree with you, unless GW starts to copyright words to do with the range they supply such as Chaos, Marines, Space etc., Mantic could call their version of Space Marines Astral Marines or Troopers and as long as they don’t copy the design of GWs minis GW could huff and puff all day long and not get anywhere, and as Plasma, and Laser are also words that are not copyrighted they could use those too.
There’s a lot that Mantic can and can’t do, just as long as they tread carefully they wont come into any problems.
“There’s a lot that Mantic can and can’t do, just as long as they tread carefully they wont come into any problems.” Thats the problem. Why they need to copy? I just wish they were original in that respect. If they are going sci-fi I just wish they go from scratch and not look the armies of 40k and copy everything. “Lets make an army very similar to Space Marines so people will buy them” “Lets get Alessio Cavattore to makes us some rules so people think we are making this for our game!” In truth they are just selling… Read more »
@philld77 Gw could never copyright individual generic works in and of themselves. If that were possible it would have been done long before GW and none of us would be able to speak at all without paying a royalty to someone lol. Copyrights are for coined phrases and ideas which are patent.
Perhaps you should take a moment to think about how difficult it is to launch a mass battle game in this industry.
They are the ONLY direct competitor of GW in the market (i.e. Like for Like) all the others are small level skirmish games etc.
As much as you may disagree with how they do business in the long run they are probably doing you a massive favour.
Its not hard Warzan. Look at what they did, they started making models for a range, then they made a new range, on the third range they released the game. Why on earth could they not have made more original things for them. God I look at their website and all I can think about is “this this is X thing and that thing is Y thing in Warhammer” If you were Games Workshop, would you like a company to do this bastardization Mantic is pulling on GW? No. I know Games Workshop practices are horrible but they are on… Read more »
I don’t think you get his point. He is saying that their marketing strategy is clearly to offer a copy/knock-off to units done by GW. They are riding off other’s work.
Hell, Their last youtube video is called “Mantic Games: Orc Update and Meet Waaagh!”. WAAAGH!, I dare you to tell me that’s original with a straight face.
Granted there are similarities between GW armies and Mantic armies but that’s not an issue. Hell my Imperial Romans from warlord came with a command group that doesn’t mean they’ve copied GW. As you’ve said Mantic have the talent and I’m sure in the fullness of time they will release original ideas of their own however the generic armis are required to get a basis to expand. People recognise these armies, they know what to expect and they are popular forces. The success of these forces then allows the company to develop other ventures. There is clearly a demand for… Read more »
If you believe they are just copying GW then let them. Let them show GW they can do it cheaper. Let them show us all. I Love the 40K world but I HATE the Corporate management of it, the Monopoly and the Prices. Let Mantic take a Similar version of the world I Love and take away the part I Hate.
I think saying they’re simply copying GW is silly. It’s generic high fantasy. What were there first army lines? Elves, undead and dwarves. Again your generic high fantasy staples. I’ve been away from the hobby for a while but I bought the Undead Warhost to get me back into the swing of painting and because they’re great models but there’s a catapult in there and dogs. I had a flick through a friends Vampire Counts book and I didn’t see catapults or dogs there. As GW has practically monopolised the hobby they have to be mindful of the fact that… Read more »
GW doesn’t have the trademark on orcs, goblins, undead, or any of that stuff. They’re tropes that have been around in ‘fantasy’ for years and years even before Tolkien.
Frankly, I like the fact that Mantic is trying to eat GW’s lunch. Keeps ’em honest. Well, maybe.
BoW Adam
It would actually be kinda nice to see a bit of originality from Mantic as it is true that if you’re going to pillage from another company’s consumergroup so blatantly then you really should try harder to make your alterative range a bit more interesting than and diverse than the one you’re basing it on. At last try and go for a slightly different dynamic with the troop choices rather than making a thinly veiled attempt at coppying them. A prime example is that of the so called Abyssal Dwarfs. Couldn’t Mantic come up with a better name than Abyssal… Read more »
Even if Mantic are BLATANTLY ripping off GW, I think they wholelly deserve it. GW has had it their way for too long hence the reason that their stuff constantly goes up and up and up in price while every one else’s has only escalated slightly.
They need some good strong compettition to stop them taking their subscribes for granted which I believe they are.
Loving the look of the “thundercat tank”
This could be interesting. I’ve been thinking of trying to get into more sci-fi stuff and this might be what i’ve been waiting for.
Hope these are ROUGH concepts.
Not really that excited by the pics. LOVE the concept of Mantic Sci Fi though!
Damn.. In my opinion all of those apart from Hummer look bad. I’m affraid that the big potential for alternative 40k plastic miniatures can be wasted ;/ I hope those are just some discarded ideas from the upcoming Sci-Fi range. And I hope that those will not be dorfs in space.
I wouldn’t mind it if they did, if they can make a success of it and give GW some healthy competition then maybe GW will start to appreciate it’s customers a little more rather than just expecting them to buy, but then again you’re not forced to but just GW as the guys said last night plenty more systems out there, if this does pan out though just one more to pick and choose from, so a bonus for all 😉
I think that the cat-tank has to be a bit of a joke. Even Mantic has a sense of humor guys. Hummers and Dwarf bikes sure…. but a cat tank?
I love me some new minis, I have stuff from games I’ll never ever play, just because they look nice, and thats some nice concepts right there.
But to compete as a game, its all about the rules. I hope they get that bit right (GW havent for a while really)
I dunno if this is old new but I was speaking to Ronnie a couple of weeks back at DWS and he said that this was coming out in September and the first two races would be Space Orks and Dwarves.
Oh man i am definitely excited about these. Mantic will not disappoint.
I can honestly say that this has me very very excited! Mantic copying GW? Who cares about that if it makes GW do something to adjust their attitude! Do you think that it is a mistake that this “leak” (lol I know right :P) came just as the yearly price hike came? I think not Watson!
Mantic need to steal fantasy players pure and simple. Their objective is to get you to buy their stuff to play fantasy with it and then for you to then try the ruleset because you have the models. Simple and effective.
Thats some great business ethics right there.
I cant understand why would people think like this? If they hate GW so much then dont support them, that includes playing their game. Dont buy the army books not even the rulebooks, just play Kings of War then. Oh let me guess, its not ass good compared to Warhammer, then support your game. I hope one day Mantic takes a slip and they get sued hard for being so arrogant and leaching sales out of the hard work GW has put all those 20+ years in creating this game.
Would you also support Wizards of the Coast sueing GW?
Remember GW was originally created to sell Dungeons & Dragons and they began making alternative miniatures for D&D. Now they even have all the same races as D&D… of course some have different names… Slann for Bullywugs… Kroxigor for Blackscale Lizardfolk… Dark Elves for Drow… etc.
D&D has been around for nearly 40 years… longer than all of the other fantasy games and Traveller and Battletech was there before 40K.
I fear your righteous indignation is misplaced.
Preach it Andy
DnD also owes a lot to Vance and JRRT
and both DnD and JRRT owe it all to the ancient greeks
Oh Andy. Correct me if I’m wrong, but Wizards of the Coast wich if I’m not mistaken aquired D&D after Warhammer was created. But thats not the issue. Only sold single miniatures. Now GW sells armies, bear with me on this since I dont know much of GW since I was born on 1987 and learned of GW a couple of years back. But what you are asking is if WotC should sue GW? why? Look at Warcraft. They were going to make a Warhammer game but GW cut off the deal and they made Warcraft and Starcraft. But lets… Read more »
the Mantic stuff is generic fantasy so no ip issues…I see you point monly the selection does rather nicely fit a GW army list. Once Mantic has a toe hold im sure they will get more creative for want of a better word
I think PP started off as making stuff for DnD and that built them up enough to move into minis…. I like PP and Im not surprised they are profitable as some of their figs prices make me want to cry as well 😉
That’s a red herring… D&D has been around for nearly 40 years. They established a a set cast of races and game tropes that have been adopted by so many fantasy games, that they are now the basis of a whole raft of games. Traveller has been a sci-fi alternative to D&D for only a few years less than the great red box itself and established a generic canvas of sci-fi gaming that also included genetically modified marines. Whether GW made single miniatures or not is another red herring. Are you saying the Mantic individual models are OK, it’s only… Read more »
OMG MANTIC MADE STANDARD BEARERS!? Did GW invent Standard Bearers !? Guess GW should sue all those Sharpe episodes I saw. Yes it is true Mantic obviously want to make sure their models are compatible with other game systems including GW. That’s why they brought out some Slayers. But other than that the bulk of their units are generic. But you need to be made aware, clearly, about why you are wrong: Elves: Mantic released these models who suspiciously look like the elves in the LORD OF THE RINGS movies: full armour. Now, if Mantic wanted to just make High… Read more »
Monly, you need to think before you react. The previous poster was attempting to educate you about the history of gaming. I first started playing d and d before you were born and trust me, 80% of warhammer fantasy is a DIRECT ripoff of d and d (created by the now passed away master Gary Gygax!) Every single race in fantasy was created and developed first in d and d and earlier pieces of fantasy like tolkien and conan. What about 40k you say…well, lets think about this one: Tyranids – I think there was a film called Alien/s/3, etc,… Read more »
I fear your righteous sucking up is sad.
Does GW even imply their products are for DnD RPGs? Nope, but Mantic is very blantanly marketing their models as an alternative model line to Warhammer fantasy. Look at their newsletter saying “Why pay less for Orcs?”, theirs videos (specially the last two), and the mini line itself.
,
I think point was that saying Mantic derserves/should be sued was the issue.
I agree its sad that Mantic do have a bit of coat tailing but the reality is GW is the no1 player so to get market share it makes sense to be compatible with the top dog. I also think the Why pay more tag was silly. Kings of War is what Mantic wants to be about
my Mantic investment is dwarf kings hold so i dont really have my hat in this
@trebormills Look at Warmachine and Horde. Nothing like the top dog yet the are very profitable.
@wargamerlester you are wrong. GW have copied D&D in the past and built a business on the success of the D&D phenomenon (do you remember my interview with Steve Jackson… one of the guys who started GW?). Then GW launched their own line of games and grew from there… is this potted history beginning to sound familar to you? However, that is irrelevent. You are tipping at windmills. Marketting yourself as a viable alternative is a time-honoured practice and unless you also disagree with “The Pepsi Challenge”, then I fail to see why having more choice in the marketplace that… Read more »
its the same as online games most people always compare new games to world of warcraft as if it was the 1st online game when there was many b4 it. gw doesnt and shouldnt ever own the rights of most of the races they use as most of the fluff they have used over the years have been based on other things ie cultures,myths and history
The problem with GW is that once you have invested in their game system and their models for several years and have built a sizeable collection of stuff, it’s very difficult to just say, “that’s it I’m not buying any of their stuff no more!” it’s a kind of addiction I guess. And it’s true, once you’re in to the GW ethos, nothing else seems as good. Mantic doesn’t have a world spanning network of shops/hobby centers that you can pop down to when you fancy a game so it’s hard for anyone else to compete on that kinda level.… Read more »
found this on a German website. Not sure if its real or not as that guy on the left looks familiar from somewhere but anyway here goes:
http://www.brueckenkopf-online.com/?p=33328
OMG i hope that is real. I hope it is so much…
That one is not real. It was an April Fool’s joke. However, if it’s any consolation, it was a good enough one that even a few guys who work for Mantic had to do a double-take, as well as a number of their hardcore fans.
I see a lot of people that trash on mantic yet at the time whine about gw prices. The whole reason you pay so much for gw is because there are no companies that even compete with them. Bring on the mantic sci fi I will just hide the money I saved up for an eldar army till I see what mantic has to offer. Now if you will excuse me I am going to get me a Kola from my pepsi fridge.
Not keen on using different figures with 40k….cos im bored with it. Ill go for food while you have your turn is so 1980’s guys.
I will look forward to the new game system, but Infinity is hard to beat. Some concepts are a bit way out there, i like the hummer…Car wars or any sci fi game needed transport can use it.
To be honest, Mantic Sci Fi doesnt do anything for me, those concept arts do even less!
I agree with some of the other posters about mantic hanging on to GW aprion strings, the fact they market themselves as cheaper models for warhammer really put me off them sadly.
It was the Orcs, why pay more? Id rarther pay more for your own concepts mantic!
Oh my goodness, what a load of twaddle there is on this thread. GW were not created to sell Dungeons and Dragons, they made wooden board games and then got the gig to import D&D before publishing White Dwarf, a generic role playing games magazine (and the best one there ever was) and then doing their own role playing games then Warhammer etc.. Citadel made miniatures that could be used for D&D, GW bought or merged with Citadel at a later date. D&D and Warhammer have nothing in common except a generic fantasy setting. Mantic are meerly covering a gap… Read more »
I bought every WD up to about issue 100…sadly by then the best mag (as you say) was ruined
Competition? Come on. A wargame is competition. Pure and simple(look at Warmachine and Hordes, they are doing great financially too) , you dont have to go and rip off the races/troop choices(lets not forget Khaos Dwarves), then get the same guy who wrote the rules for Warhammer do the rules for yours. Thats purely unethical. If you wanna support Mantic buy their stuff, I dont mind but for gods sake if you really wanna support a company support it to its fullest.
You kinda do. As the owner of a game company who has an original IP I can tell you that the majority of people that talked to us at conventions WANTED generic fantasy/sci fi. People don’t want new and unique. They want more of the same. Look at D&D, Warhammer, Warcraft, Dragon Age, etc. It’s all the same. Look at the movie industry with all of the remakes. That’s what people want. You may not agree with Mantic’s tactics, but this is what the market will support so financially it’s a good move. It bugs me too, but it is… Read more »
Totally agree. I really dont understand it but thats how people is.
As much as I like Warhammer Fantasy I really which Warmachine gets a boost out of this price increase GW has put on their products. Great game and great company. And for Mantic, I hope they realize soon what they are doing.
You keep mentioning Khaos Dwarves. It was a joke. A tongue in cheeK to GW sort of thing. OBVIOUSLY they knew from the start they couldn’t have that name. It was a Joke. Ronnie Bloody worked in GW for Years so I think he knows better than you what hes able and not able to do.
And I’m sure Mantic will create some sort of new Race eventually. They are just getting the basics in place. Humans, Orks Elves, Dwarves, Etc. You know, the races pretty much every Fantasy game/novel/world has.
NO! GW invented Orks, Elves, Dwarves and Humans! I’LL SUE YOU!
Agreed.
Dwarfs in space…hell yeah!
http://www.brueckenkopf-online.com/?p=33328
That looks like Halo.
Seems like everything is 40K or Halo these days.
That amuses me as I think Halo looks a bit like Starship Troopers the animated show 😉
Hmmm 40k…thats like Starship troopers, Aliens, Manga, etc
**Troll mode off***
Ok what happened with my PP comment…never mind
repeated:
I think PP started off as making stuff for DnD and that built them up enough to move into minis…. I like PP and Im not surprised they are profitable as some of their figs prices make me want to cry as well 😉
I hope PP doesnt get more expensive as I may have to bitch re them as well 😉
Privateer Press started out making making minis for their OWN RPG called Iron Kingdoms, not DnD.
Wrong. They started making modules for the d20 System which was compatible with D&D 3rd Edition. Granted it featured their own setting, Iron Kingdoms, but they owe everything they have to Wizards of the Coast and the Open Gaming License.
@theharrower Yes your correct it was d20 rpg stuff i was recalling
D20 isn’t DND, it is a generic rules system. No Dwarfs, no Elves, just a rules template. My point is PP developed their background from scratch. THEY NEVER MADE DND MINIS, fact.
WRONG… Tell me what d20 is? is it D&D? WRONG!!!!!!
Its a free rules system which you can implement your lore/world to make you OWN RPG.
They owe them nothing. Its was a free license and they had to go trough the whole process of inventing and creating a whole universe and characters and designing everything. Now thats something to admire, not what Mantics does, which is copy Warhammer then a few weeks after selling their bastard copies they put a vague fluff/story on their site. YAWN!!!
I never claimed they made dnd minis, i thought they started doing dnd rpg stuff but ive must have recalled incorrectly as i do recall the d20 rpg Iron Kingdoms stuff. Again i think the point is that PP wouldnt exsist without WotC doing the OGL d20 system…a popular game engine allowing new firms to come into being (ironically doing so well, it eats market share from the no1 rpg..debatable im sure)
Anyway i see some people are going nuts on the negative thumbs so i guess the flame war is kicking off….
Dude, I’ve talked to Matt Wilson and the Privateer Press guys on numerous occasions at conventions in the past. He’ll tell you the same thing. If it wasn’t for Wizards of the Coast and the OGL, Privateer Press wouldn’t exist. And you’re confusing two different things. Privateer Press was an RPG company first. They invented all of the background and everything for Iron Kingdoms because that is where their roots started. You need all of that with an RPG. If Privateer Press started as a miniature company first like Mantic is doing, you’d have the same scenario in reverse. Mantic… Read more »
The D20 system and the OGL (Open Gaming Licence) are not a free system, they are are an open system (there is a massive distinction) which allows the existence of Pathfinder. Which I imagine you aren’t a fan of, since it continues in the vein of taking something great that was badly abused by corporate measures and trying to make it work. One of the reasons the OGL was rescinded was when Wizards realized that companies like Privateer were making as almost much money out of D&D as they were. That and all the third party crap. And the clunky… Read more »
I AM SO HOPING MANTIC GIVES IT A SOLID GO 🙂
Somebody give “battlefoam” a call I need a standard load out for my p.a.c.k. 1520
that holds this game right here Babe 🙂
Mantic gives you more bang for your buck and the quality is top shelf…
Looking deeper at the picture, it does sort of look like an modernization of the Space Marine.
Big guns and shoulder pads, etc.
Interested to see the rules.
I like all of these designs, much to my surprise.
Halftrackdemondog still looks like the thundercat tank to me though. …not that that’s a bad thing. Actually, a thundercat-like faction would blow my mind.
i agree i think a space cat or fantasy cat race would be fantasic (but would wing commander or red dwarf sue them) just think of how many colour schemes possible from tigers lepords etc
yes…the bbc would sue…this is mine…this is mine..thats mine…but not this bit, i dont want that…but all this other stuff is mine.
Some kilrathi would be cool (sp?)
It really annoys me when people call this all stealing from so and so. At the end of the day did Gw invent any of the designs for the vampires completely from scratch? No, sillyness. Same with dwarfs. This all comes down to people not realising that JRR Tolken did not invent fantasy. The Lord of the Rings ect. were a homage to existing middle-english and old english texts. Anyone who says that they are his creation does not have the full facts. Same with fantasy ect. look at the sci-fi writers of the 1950-60s for fully developed ideas very… Read more »
Can you tell me with a straight face that Mantic are not taking all of their products a que from Games Workshop? Games Workshop creates stories/fluff for their games so they can make their miniatures, they invest money in a creative department so they can design how they will create their minis, their aesthetics and so on. BUT Mantic saved money on all of that since all they had to do was just have a look at what Games Workshop has done so they could just make a “sketch” altering their aesthetics. All they have done is look at Games… Read more »
Frankly, using “Games Workshop” and “creative” in the same sentence is a bit of a stretch, isn’t it? They make beautiful sculpts and have some great art, but look at 40k:
Space Marines = Space Imperials
Space Orks = Space Orks
Necrons = Space Undead
Tau = Space Japanese
Eldar = Space Elves
The list goes on. There are many games out there with truly unique character races and tropes. Generally, no one buys them. Mantic is just jumping on the same bandwagon that GW jumped on when they started.
BoW Adam
I suppose it’s the times we live in, but most people won’t have seen the parallels between the Space Marines and Mobile Infantry (from the book, before you philistines jump on me), the Tyranids and the Bugs, the Hive cities and Metropolis, the Genestealers and the Xenomorphs, or the sacrifice of psykers in the golden throne and Freder’s vision of Moloch from Metropolis. People seem to just assume eveything GW writes is original.
And, of course, Dune.
And Michael Moorcock’s Chaos pantheon.
Konrad Curze, Lion’el Johnson, Eldar (a term from Tolkein), the list goes on. The Tau are the most original element of 40k and even then they are so anime inspired as to be at odds with the Gothic elements overriding everything else.
Games Workshop have only seen so far by standing on the shoulders of giants.
isnt there a quote somewhere about all new ideas are theft cos nothing new can be invented, all stuff is just a new take on whats gone before