What is Warhammer’s new Storm of Magic?
April 11, 2011 by beerogre
So today the mighty Games Workshop announce their new expansion for Warhammer Fantasy Battles... Storm of Magic... but what is it?
Here's what their press release says...
Announcing the impending arrival of Storm of Magic, the latest and largest Expansion for Warhammer, the Game of Fantasy Battles. Launched in July 2011, Storm of Magic describes what happens when great eldritch maelstroms roil across the lands. Magic becomes far more powerful and there is a whole range of Cataclysm spells to cast, unleashing untold devastation on the enemy. Arcane Fulcrums burst from the ground, not only acting as loci for the swirling energies that pervade a battle fought amidst the Storm of Magic, but changing the way a Warhammer tabletop looks and interacts with your armies. With such things so crucial to your Storm of Magic games a new range of Warhammer scenery and Wizards will soon be released in time for you to wage cataclysmic battles.
There are new plastic kits of big monsters also announced to coincide with the July release of this expansion.
So that's it guys. Is "Cataclysmic Battle" the new code word for Apocalypse-sized fantasy game. We're betting that it is.
However, the exciting part is all the potential new kits. There are a few teaser pics in the press release...
Is this really what it's going to take to revitalise WHFB?
Will it make you pick up or restart the game?
What would you like to see to make this exciting for YOU?
Let's speculate guys...
it's what we're good at!
BoW Andy
![Warcradle Studios Reveal TINY New 10mm Festive Marker! [Updated]](https://images.beastsofwar.com/2025/11/christmas-kyle-main-600-338.jpg)
Urgh, MORE big models?
I’ll only buy them if my Dwarves get a giant steam golem/tank 😀
HELL YEAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I second that! My first memories of Warhammer Fantasy is the awesome organ gun and dwarf slayers. Then I started playing Warhammer RPG and always loved to play dwarves. I’m still thinking of starting a dwarf throng, but the models are kinda outdated, so I’ll just wait for a new army book i guess and ’till that time I’m gonna concentrate on my Orks and pimp them out to the limits :D.
I don’t know if the game is that broken??
The more I play the more magic seems to be too random an element to rely on? Even with my super buffed slann – you can’t do much with 3 magic dice?
So a magic heavy game could be great fun. Proper hero action. It will be interesting how GW balance this for all races. Might end up a little like warmachines = a race to kill the caster? I’m guessing the players would have to agree to a Storm of Magic game up front?
Love the idea of more big monsters. It’s a fantasy game so it should be all about scale. Tiny hero’s killing the massive monster and standing on it’s felled corpse…
I’m well up for this – as long as GM give the love to all…
My own concerns centre around the ongoing support for this.
I do feel that apocalypse kinda suffered a lack of support after getting off to a great start.
Fantasy needs something like this to ignite the magic again. Hopefully its something both the community and GW will get behind.
If GW can balance the play so perhaps you can take a giant gribbly in a normal game, but at big points, then there could be more legs in the expansion?
Bit like the new chaos stuff from fudgeworld – I believe the new book will allow some elements to be taken as rare choices in the regular game?
Im with you on the apocalypse issue. I feel like it should get more atention as it saved GW from falling a few years back. It single handedly restored the Toronto GW stores when people where giving it up. This fantasy version of apocalypse (that is if it turns out to be big scale) can do the same I think.
But all in all it will only be a short time supported suplement to the game just like apocalypse was for 40k. Time will tell.
Looking at this as primarily a collecter rather than a gamer, I think this is great news.
BUT I do see how some gamers may be a bit worried. Anything that takes focus off the core game system can be a bit bothersome, especially something big (pun intended) like this.
@joasht I’d say it’s a pretty safe bet that the Dwarves are going to get some big war machines. I want to see a Runic Baneblade, haha!
Let’s see what it actually entails first though before we all lose the run of ourselves 🙂
Too late to get me back into the game, sadly the cost of rebuying rulebooks, army books, new minis etc for all GW mainstream games is prohibitive (for me at least)
For myself, I don’t play any of the Warhammer games, but I do like big monsters and new terrain is never a bad thing.
I’m looking forward to adding some collossal sized monsters to my D&D games! 🙂
BoW Andy
It could get me back into it, i think 8th ed was a massive step forward and love the new format army books. GW are embarking on a massive projecct with the game that i think that when its done will be totally amazing, so every step closer they get is a step closer for me to get more involved.
im a beginner in whfb, just started to collect skaven, dont know, i kinda like the new look of the ratogers ^^
some of my friends are playing whfb. im not able to buy me a lot of stuff, and big battles require a lot of models, but i like the idea of some big scale fantasy battles.
my english is pretty bad (im from germany ^^ and its far to long, since im out of school ^^)
Bring on a properly sized shaggoth
shaggoth baby yeah!!!!!!!
I think it is nice even though I think it might be a bit early for this. Up to now there is only one Armybook out for WHFB. I think it would be better to concentrate on some more armies first before shooting out an expansion. If they use this to give some love to all the armies I think its a good idea. New terrain is always nice and Monsters add a lot of flavor to the game.
Nah, We already got loads of Hydras, HPAs and now Arachnok spiders and Tombkings new big stuff. The gaming board just seems to shrink for every big model there is. I’d like to see a comeback to MSU units, a couple of gladeguards there, a few empire bowmen in a forest and so on. Now it’s just blocks of 40+ infantry for steadfast supported by big monsters for the kill and you just shuffle them at each other. Sometimes one just wish one could upload the armylists and let a computer work it out so you don’t have to deploy all of the minis. I’m starting to look at Warhammer Historical gaming, but never played it so don’t know if it’s actually better/worse.
Warhammer Historical is a fine, fine system.
If you can find opponents, dive in. 🙂
My bets ae on the bottom picture being either a shaggoth, Manticore or a another big model gw are bringing out. Top model Rhinox anybody ?
One thing that really puts me down with big WFB battles is all the broken/unpainted/unbased, /lack of movement trays units on everyside if everything is painted (not just dipped) and properly based and on based movement trays. Then sure it would be quite cool but until the keep it small and focus on painting guides and how to motivate people to actually paint the’re minis, maybe GW could even start selling pre-painted miniatures for these prices?
I find this disappointing if it is a move towards “apocalypse” style gaming. I don’t want to buy more models so I can play the game, I want to buy more models and have tactical flexibility. I almost never play the game as it is, because it takes too long to play…. this will make that worse.
On the topic of big monsters… I love the models, and big monsters have always been something that has made fantasy unique… however, in today’s metagame, they are not very good. So easily shot by artillery, they have to sneak around the board, when they should be charging up the middle!! In an “Apocalypse” style game they will be more useless due to the preponderance of artillery. Warhammer Fantasy and 40k are both becoming games that do not reflect the fluff in army selection and in play on the tabletop. That is a real shame because the fluff is fantastic. It’s why I switched most of my gaming energies to Warmachine. The models are fluffy on the tabletop but still competitive and player skill is more important than army selection.
GW games will always have a special place in my heart, but they are losing what makes them enjoyable to play.
I second the last sentence. That’s exactly how I feel. Until gw gets back to a more strategic game, i’m done.
Seeing as I nolonger play Warhammer (though I still have a fair few models) this really has no chance of enticing me back.
Something based on smaller forces, story driven battles and experience gaining would be much more likely to do that… though even then I doubt I would buy any new models.
Make me a black dragon the size of a baneblade and I’ll be happy. Very poor, but happy.
As with Apocalypse, the problem will be time , and money.
Not just time playing either, even more than 40k, its time in preparing the huge numbers of models needed for such games.
When it becomes a second job just getting your troops ready for a game, the games stopped being fun, even before you roll a dice.
Big monsters look cool, there will inevitably be some truly amazing miniatures , but as a game, it will be a short term fad, like apocalypse was.
Could it possibly be? Plastic greater daemons?
I think I’d eat my felt top hat if they appeared.
Might be close ups instead of big models?
hmmmm… and i just started an all Khorne daemon army… THEY HAVE NO MAGIC!!!! Give us dispel bonuses pleas GW
Got to have a Titan sized shaggoth they are mean to get to the size of mountains and bring on dwarf airships
I’m a big big fan of the new Warhammer Fantasy 8th edition. For all the moaning and ranting about Games Workshop and their prices, doomed prophecies of future resin kits taking over the range and a retreat from independent retailers, the one thing that remains is their ability to produce such superb games. I think the new Warhammer Fantasy is absolutely terrific and a game so many people will enjoy. I’m surprised to hear that it is in need of revitalisation already as to me this new game system has just got started.
This newly proposed expansion ‘Storm of Magic’ certainly looks interesting and I’m a big fan of the new big monster models and hoards of little men, so all in all this sounds quite fun. Throwing in new big apocalyptic devastating spells or whatever sounds totally wicked. I’m sure I’ll be running out to buy the accompanying White Dwarf when it comes out so I can read all the ins, outs and greats things that this new expansion has to offer.
However, the new Warhammer 8th edition is brand new, players are still getting used to the new system and us fans are still in the process of speculating what shape future army books will take. For example, are we due a substantial reduction of magic items in the Tomb Kings list as we did with the Orcs and Goblins? My gut feeling now is maybe this expansion’s release is a little too soon as the Warhammer Fantasy community is still busy digesting the new system. Maybe it would have been better to release it after the rerelease of at least 4-6 armies first rather than just 2?
If this expansion’s release is indeed set to help support the sales of the game, and to help revitalise Warhammer Fantasy then I think once again Games Workshop are missing the decisive problem – PRICES. Reading the forums, the one thing that is preventing people dipping their toes into Warhammer Fantasy is the price needed to start a brand new army. Flogging hoard rules, big monsters and expansions for apocalyptic showdowns and all for apocalyptic prices £££ ($$$ if you are across the pond) does nothing but put potential new buyers off. I’m sorry GW, it doesn’t matter what great and wonderful things you release, the problem will always remain the same – your prices. If you really want Warhammer Fantasy to take off then more realistic pricing is required or indeed some form of discounted sales.
I agree with you 100%. An expansion is the last thing that 8th ed needs right now. What we really need are new army books. Why the hell are they trying to expand 8th, when half the army books don’t quite jive yet. Island of Blood didn’t move in huge numbers and that was the best way to get people in…if people aren’t playing 8th already….some lame expansion isn’t going to help.
Release more army books….get the ball rolling for 8th ed…then expand.
I think they should bring back nagash for it too
He’s used to coming back… Just dust him off carefully…
BoW Romain
Hmm. I read it as being Planetstrike for Warhammer but I suppose Apocalypse makes more sense.
If they do bring out something good enough I will take up fantasy based on which is my favourite
Big fantastical monsters are my favourite thing about fantasy so this could convince me to start an army for sure. Yes its expensive but I will just build it slowly I suppose…but fantastical monsters are awesome so this could be very cool from my point of view.
Dear GW, please bring me one plastic Thunderlizard for the Lizardmen and i promise I’ll return to WHFB.
@deltadragon01 – yes please…
My thunderlizard project has stalled with one plastic dinosaur…
http://www.flickr.com/photos/51509513@N05/5609742893/in/set-72157626475989842/
… with plans for multiple howdahs and terradon perches…
Throne of skulls 2010 = 150 people
Throne of skulls 2011 = 56 people
GW have to wake up to the fact they’re doing something wrong. The armies aren’t balanced, there’s now a huge lack tactics in WFB with stupidly over sized units of infantry and nothing else. Its boring to play and quite frankly boring to collect for. In the build up to 8th ed’s launch I was psyching myself up to collect and paint an all mounted Bretonnian army… that idea soon went out of the window!!! Do I want larger games of more blocks of plastic core troops… erm nope. Do I want to simply roll hundreds of dice like some hyped up simpleton… erm nope. 40k used to be the quick and easy game and WFB used to be the thinking mans game. If they dumb them down anymore they’ll make snakes and ladders look complex.
They’ve created a game that fundamentally changed what WFB was primarily about, not for the good of the game system but for the good of dividends to share holders, and that’s fine it really is. If that’s how they want to run there business good luck to them and I wish them well. However as a consumer I reserve the right to take my custom elsewhere, that’s Infinity, Warmachine, Hordes, Malifaux, Hell Dorado and Dystopian Wars at the moment.
I’ll take a look at WFB when 9th ed comes out and they revert back to what made the game so good in the first place. There wasn’t much wrong with the 7th edition core rules, it was the shoddy army books that ruined the game… oh good God the Beastmen book, how awful was that? GW and in particular WFB will alway have a place in my heart but I’m just not wasting any of my money and precious hobby time on an awful product thats just not fun unless you’ve had a full frontal lobotomy.
I think we may be looking a two things here.
1. This is a great way for GW to bring all the races up to speed with large models. I hope we see a monster for all the races.
2. Magic as it stands is a little too random. This could be a “fix” that would provide a more tactical magic system and introduce more magical gear for all race. Each races spells could be outlined in this book. Again this would be a huge upgrade for the armies not yet printed.
@charnocker yes and no. You see in Warmachine they’re releasing Wrath, which will give every army a nice little boost and new stuff to play with, which is a cool way of keeping the game fresh for everyone and maybe leveling out any perceived unbalance. for Infinity the Human Sphere book was again a great way to expand the game, add a whole new faction and also new troop choices and rules for every faction. With WFB they haven’t really started on the Army books yet and they’re talking about an expansion? I didn’t have a problem with them fundamentally changing the core rules of WFB, I didn’t like what they changed them too, BUT it wasn’t intrinsically a bad move. However they haven’t changed the army books, other systems develop the army books at the same time as the core rule set and release them all close together and then use new mini releases throughout the life of the core rule set to keep people interested. Adding an expansion to WFB right now smacks a little of desperation to me. They know they’re losing the plot, and for all the GW staff in the stores claiming how great the new WFB has been, I’ve not seen a single game of it been played properly in the shops on games nights. 8 kids round a table with a unit each… yep… two properly painted armies lined up across a decent table with nice terrain between 2 gamers… nope. I know nobody in my friend group who still play WFB, thats out of easily 30 people no one playing WFB when they all used to, in that list includes 4 current GW staff members and 9 former staff members all of whom were sworn WFB geeks. If they don’t see that as a problem then they need their heads checking. Adding more of the same into the system won’t solve the probem, it’ll just make it worse.
Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa….. Wait….. Games Workshop makes a Fantasy version of 40k? When did this happen?
Doesn’t sound like the right direction in my mind. When you look at the recent artwork for the new Orc & Goblin/Tomb King books as well as of course the Warhammer Rulebook they were showing off a lot of titanic scenes of battle with huge monsters and mechanical behemoths. Seems that they will be taking a leap off the deep end into a larger scale battle.
What I miss is the fact that they are just looking at one side of the ‘battle’ spectrum. The Old World isn’t filled completely with massive battles over expansive battlefields…what about the skirmishes in the forests, the smaller scale engagements between scouting forces. I know that as players we can do this – but GW seem to be missing the fact that most people can’t afford this kind of investment and would love something small and skirmish like to dip into.
I’m sure the models will look fantastic but would be great if GW focused on other aspects of what exactly the ‘war’ is going on.
Also I love the fact this is all about magic and yet I’m a Dwarf player lol. Wonder what will be bought out as a big badass counter lol
So, guessing those 2 models are a greater fire dragon and mountain chimera, as they are part of core rules and missing still. I’m curious to see what way this takes the game, the unreliability of magic is what balances it against the massive pay-off potential.
The thing I’m most looking forward to are the new wizards, new scenery will look cool but be prohibitively expensive, am worried about the monsters as I’m assuming that Trish Carden is Trish Morrison?? I’ve never been a fan of her sculpts, which means I tend to avoid most big models in WFB, however, those two sneak peeks seem above average for her, so hoping to not be disappointed with the models
there fluff on this one seems ripped right off the side of the box for the Zendikar Magic the Gathering set…. i almost hope wizards of the coast screams I.P. foul just so they get some flak bakc 😛
Just another gimmick, why does GW concentrate so much on gimmicks these days??
If I ran GW this is what I would do:
Concentrate on updating all army books to the same level – This keeps existing players happy and has no immediate effect on new players as they wont really know the difference anyway
Fill out the missing units from the army books or at least release conversion kits to help people out in doing it themselves
Release mini versions of the main box games (limited rules/ skirmish rules etc), sell them for £25 with a regiment/squad of your choice bundled in as well
Actually have a sensible god damn pricing structure and stop being such money grabbing *****
Throw a Sale once in a while ffs
Drop the hard sell from GW stores, I dont know about you guys but it makes me want to punch the poor goon who is blabbing on at me. Iv actually walked into GW stores to buy something and left with nothing due to being annoyed at the sales pitch which is just embarrassing
Stop releasing gimmicky updates and using them as short term bandages to the failing business model, actually do something worthwhile with your vast resources
and finally I would remember that most gamers dont have £££/$$$’s to throw at this hobby, even if they would like to do so.
£10 a month from a consumer is better than £50 once and never again
@solar I think the problem is a more fundamental one with GW. Their games are becoming too damn big for anyone to play. Not being rude to anyone here but anyone with the resources to actually buy a proper sized 40k or WFB army nowadays must have a seriously well paid job or absolutely no living expenses. I have a seriously well paid job atm and I do not have the time to paint up the size of army required to play, quite frankly GW’s mediocre games. So the flip side is people with plenty of time on their hand this leave kids and the unemployed, neither of which are known for having vast sums of disposable income!!!
GW’s business plan is all wrong, they haven’t looked at the market place and seen what its customers / potential customers want, or can afford in both financial and time terms. Wargaming the GW way just isn’t fun anymore. If yu ascribe logic to the way they’ve developed there business there are only two possible root causes of the malaise that so badly afflicts them at the moment:
i) They have seen the size of their structure and know how much it cost to run, and they know how many customers they have. Ergo the divide the cost of running the company by the number of customers and figured out we all needed to spend more money and just figured we’d all go along with it.
ii) They’re totally incompetent and actually truly believe this is what people want. Up at Head Office they have wonderful tables and lovely scenery and get models free or half price, so to them its great and easy to play big games. Meanwhile in the real world the rest of us have jobs / families and don’t want bigger games we can’t commit the time or money too.
They need to close the one man stores down, they don’t work at all. They need to drastically reduce their head office staff, trust me if you think the public sector is bad with hangers on you ain’t seen nothing until you see the amount of clueless cronies they employ in Nottingham. I don’t like saying making people redundant is the answer but seriously the product they produce isn’t good enough or big enough to support their current business model. Time to get real I think.
Secondly they need to take a good long hard look at the product they’re producing and compare it t their competitors. No longer are they the best at what they do, there are far superior miniature ranges out there now and as for rule sets, they’re not even at the races anymore. Having met their current crop of rules writers I fear for the future of the GW, they’re simply not good enough. GW should be able to slam dunk all comers, but they’re not when it comes to product, they’re having their behinds handed to them on a plate by younger, nimbler and more customer savvy companies who know about wargaming in the round not just Games Workshop wargaming.
nail. head.
Trust me solar I didn’t like typing one word of that post. It makes me sad to see how badly wrong the GW are getting it right now. I was 5 when my father first introduced me to wargaming and the GW. It was the early 80’s and he was around all the guys involved at the time be that role playing or whatever. I’m now in my early 30’s and a fully signed up geek!!! The GW has played a huge part in my hobby, I’ve never been a GW exclusive gamer at any point in time but conversely I’ve never not done GW gaming… until now. I’m not doing any GW related hobby and I won’t be for the foreseeable future, if the GW thinks that’s because I don’t have the money they’d be hugely wrong, since the turn of the year I’ve spent:
£230+ on Infinity mini’s
£300+ easily on Warmachine
£200 on Dystopian Wars
£200 on Anima Tactics
£100 on Hell Dorado
£250 on Flames of War
£180 on Battlefoam Bags (soon to be even more)
£120 on Knight Models
£60 on Kingdom of Death
£50 on Sodapop miniatures
and as I say not a single penny on a GW product. Have I painted all of the above? Hell no but they’re also not a daunting prospect either individually. I cam also happily say they’re a scale of game that I can devote time to and enjoy. So many people I see at clubs round by me aren’t enjoying GW’s games and when they see me and my mates having fun with Infinity, Warmachine etc. they come over and are interested.
Agreed this makes the game a lot less fun. I like the odd game of WHFB. I pick and choose where and when I play…and we usually have an understanding between gamers that we’re in it to have fun… I.E. no Teclis or related shenanigans. Between the unkillable tomb king monstrosities and this new insane magic expansion I’m finding it more and more difficult to justify staying on the GW band wagon. How is it fun when half my army will be taken out by some new UBERSPELL and giant monsters that make my 100+ infantry absolutely redundant.
At my game club, we’ve actually switched over to Mordheim, and we are having a blast. Anyone can get in on the campaign with 10-15 models…we can play several games in one afternoon….and the warbands level up win or lose.
Its interesting to follow this topic since a lot of people seem to care about WHFB even though they don’t play it. A lot of people, including my self seem to argue about the prices. I just for fun compared the prices between Fantasy and 40k and was surprised, that for a nice big army you pay nearly equaly.
You’re probably right troublemaker with regards to cost, a horde army in 40k is probably comparable in price to a horde WFB army and so on and so forth. But I happen to think that 40k is a 1500 point game where as WFB is now 2500 to 3000 point game at least. Also the minimum unit size now for say the average WFB unit has got to be 40 models, and with the advent of £25 for 10 plastic mini’s we’re now in the realms of £100 for a decent WFB unit. How does that compare to a Space Marine tactical squad?
Long and short of it is that the GW hobby is too damn expensive. I was in one of my local GW’s about 3 weeks ago and a dad popped in with his two sons to talk about 40k. The store manager who I know well did a great sales pitch and the two lads seemed to know what they really wanted, one wanted a nids the other Blood Angels so they quickly discarded the Black Reach starter box, so the dad asked about the rule book, then the army books and added up the stuff they wanted to start the game.
When he saw that he’d need to spend £600 and the spend wouldn’t stop there he turned to his sons and said, “do you really want to do this? If you do I’ll buy you the stuff, but to be honest I’d be happier getting you the PS3 and the games you wanted”… suffice to say the boys went for the PS3. I the early 90’s and the early naughties then you could argue the hobby was a good alternative and indeed cost effective against console gaming.
However look at it now, yeah sure single player games might still be done in 2 or 3 days still, but the online element to games now keeps you entertained for far longer. You’re right there is a lot of nostalgic love for WFB, I still have my dads original copy of WFB in the white box with all the green plastic dice, and I’m not the only one I know. Other games I’ve played have come and gone, but there’s always been WFB, for that not to be the case for so many feels strange and its tinged with a bit of sadness and for some anger.
You also have to understand that 40k has always been a simplified rule set and many people accepted that because of what the game was trying to depict, BUT that should never have been the case for WFB. 8th ed butchered the rules so badly that all tactics went out of the window, and you don’t come across interesting armies anymore, its dull as ditch-water. 2 or 3 units of 40 plus troops the Hydra, blah, blah blah… boring. Where’s the cavalry charge? The skirmish line to draw units out of formation, the clever formation movement? Its all gone.
I’m just so happy I’ve found Infinity, its the game I always wanted and thank God I found it. Warmachine slates my thirst for larger scale gaming with interesting tactics, meanwhile skirmish games like Anima Tactics, Hell Dorado, Malifaux etc. give me a varied gaming experience, with detailed tactics that allows me to get a crack on and finish 2, 3 maybe 4 games in an afternoon. I’m more than happy with ‘my hobby’ just a little sad my Wood Elves, Dwarfs and those Bretonnians will never take to the field of battle again.
Have to say all your points are very good, I am also a long time vet (started around 5 or 6 and just turned 29) an ex-red shirt, I will always love WFB and 40K. But it is mainly in nostalgia and the occasional must paint model.
I’m trying to get my gaming group into warmahordes and other games (got starters for hell dorado last week) I just hate that I can’t use my eldar and brets and have same chance of winning as a space wolf or skaven general, that ruins the game tournament-wise (still ok for fun games) I want equal footings were net-lists aren’t automatically better. So, I get my war machine out, unfortunately the club doesn’t want to look at other games.
I don’t believe 8th ed is the problem (7th was getting dull for list builds too), it’s purely the business model, codex creep combined with making the amount of models needed for a set size rise is bad and will encourage a disillusioned following. I think they should have hit the reset army book button in both systems, but they won’t.
It’s a shame to see such a fond memory that has been a big part of my life waning, if the other games pick up more though it will hit home that we, the players, want quality not just big battles. Let’s hope they listen to the rumblings and realise that they have got something wrong and don’t blame it on grumpy vets. If they don’t they will inevitably fold
Yeah I too am an ex red shirt. It does sadden me to see people at the top of GW who have no love for the hobby and quite frankly are running what was once a damn fine profitable company into the ground. Schism93 I doubt they’ll listen to customers, I’ve been told by people at head office they believe we’re all just a bunch of whingers, who’ll carry on buying stuff regardless and they think we’ll always find something to whinge about. Hell maybe they’re right, but I think the concerns of many and my own are fair. We all want something slightly different I guess from the hobby and it’s difficult for the GW to please everyone BUT right now they seem to be pleasing so few.
PS schism93 I’m trying to replace the phrase Warmahordes with the far funnier Homachine!!! Please pass it on 😉
It is a far superior name I will spread with relish 🙂
The funny thing is I compared vanilla marines with fantasy skaven
The funny thing is I compared a large Vanilla Marine Army and a large Skaven horde. I arrived at about 430€. That was the original GW Price at their online store. I didn’t take a specific Armylist just a decent Army with about every choice once an Core double more or less
troublemaker I think you miss my points. However I have a vanilla Space Marine army and buying a vanilla Skaven army for the standard points for both systems results in VERY different costs. I’m not going to list it out here but there is a difference. I still think £400 for entry level wargaming is too much, and that’s without glue, paints rulebooks etc. as for add ons that make these huge games even bigger? Who are they trying to kid? Lugging the required kit around for apocalypse would tax the greatest minds!!! lol. I will not be doing the same for WFB.
Have to agree with sirangry, the game just takes to long to set up, at least for us 30+ who has full time jobs, house, family, kids. When I was younger it didn’t matter if it took all day, now when it takes an hour just setting up rank after rank of infantry you’re so stressed out it’s easy to just say “next time” and then 5 months later you haven’t played a single game. To set them up and then get them blasted by some megaspell, and then have to pack them away again, well…how fun is that? Maybe for the ones who hasn’t painted their stuff and just dumps them in a box but not for me. I wish the’ve made some rules and missions for their “Border Patrol” game instead.
Wow, I don’t think I got everything the right way to this point (sry my english is lacking since a while)
It’s interesting to see, how the people think, in different ways and argument, but this is all about speculation to this new stuff, maybe it’s simply a way to get a game growing by sice, new rules to magic in games about 5000+ points would be ok, and funny I think. Even new Monsters are never wrong, just get one and field an army against it, just to have fun.
The other thing mentioned here are the prices, and that’s where I have to agree, the prices are very high, but be happy there in Britain, it’s not that high, you know what really annoys me?
I live in Germany and it’s cheaper to buy the GW-stuff via the British-GW-site and import it than to buy it here in Germany, thats not a joke and it’s a point that really makes me angry about GW. Ok they do the White Dwarf in german and all the Rule- and Armybooks. But does this really have to rise the prices in about 20% (sometimes it’s less, sometimes even more)?
And another point is the lack of new stuff in the Armybooks through the last years, I’ve got an Armybook of the Empire of the 5th edition and most of the explantation of the forces are directly the same text in the 7th, sorry but thats a cool new Armybook, also there is everytime missing more background information, where are the shortstories gone, ok some are there, but there are so many missing.
That’s what I have to say in this moment.
Hallo hawvius Ich denke, sie Englisch ist sehr gut. Weit besser als mein Deutsch.
I hope I haven’t butchered your language too badly, I can get by speaking German with hand gestures thrown in.. but beyond that it gets flakey. I think prices within the hobby has always been a contentious issue and there have always been complaints about cost, and always will be. Personally I’m not too fussed with the cost of GW’s mini’s etc, as an individual product. I think though that the trouble comes when you realise just how many miniatures you are required to buy to pay their games. I think they’ve lost the plot, and I think they do require a short sharp smack to the chops before they go too far down this path of madness. I’ve been told by staff at GW that they just want new gamers and to focus on core game sales, and while that’s a laudable business goal for any business, to do so to the detriment of your current customers, or indeed to actively not care about retention of customers is madness. I really do think that some of the managers at the very top of GW would struggle to get jobs anywhere else, they’re so shockingly inept.
I’ve been collecting Games Workshop miniatures and games now for 20 years. I have given up the hobby so many times (the prices always being the central issue) and then I’ve found myself coming back to it all over again.
I reckon with the GW hobby you’ve got to take from it what you can. 40K made me cynical more than any other game. I started off with the 2nd edition, which was overly complicated. Then they released 3rd edition, which, I thought was overly simplistic. Then with the subsequent editions of 40K it seemed they were then gradually adding back in more and more rules from the 2nd edition book. It almost seems to me that there is a bloke whose job it is at GW to copy and paste rules from the old book into the new ones and then flogging them off as if they are brand new enlightened rules.
With that, I’ve been doing Warhammer Fantasy for over 10 years and in that time I have witnessed 3 editions of the Orc and Goblin army book. Each of these editions of the army book have been exactly the same, all they do is fiddle with the point values, add/subtract the number of magic items and then invent some new wonderful model to make the list new and seem worth while. The background stuff is always the same, the illustrations are recycled and the glossy photos are generally identical.
Where am I going with my cynical waffle? I’ve been through it with GW for so many years now nothing really surprises me anymore yet I still come back. I absolutely agree with what Sirangry, Solar and T9nv3 are saying. Their prices are a crime and have been for years. The company has been an on-going joke for the last 10+ years and I’ve written my fair share of moans about GW in these forums. And I also for a very brief time was a red shirt. But at the end of the day I still like my Dark Angel Space Marines, I like my Orcs and Goblins and I like Necromunda, Mordheim and all the others games. I’m perfectly happy to sit downstairs with a beer and music, painting away with the intention of playing the odd game to satisfy my gaming needs. I take my time, I don’t rush painting my models. I have enough unpainted models to keep me painting for another year. The majority of my models I have got recently are from ebay. I don’t care if they are second hand and I am prepared to collect all my future armies this way. I haven’t rushed out and brought the new Orc and Goblin book, I’m still using the old one for reference. The new Storm of Magic expansion sounds great and I will get excited about it. But actually physically going out and buying the thing is a different matter entirely as I’m sure the book will cost a bomb.
I like Warhammer Fantasy 8th edition because it is fun. The actual starter box set I don’t like. The forces are uneven, it comes with no easy access play sheet, no straight-to-play rules and no scene setting scenarios. But the game itself I think is brilliant. For all of GWs faults, and I’m happy to list them and I usually do, I have to give them their due credit for this edition of the game. To me, the idea of throwing on the table all the Fantasy armies I have collected over the years and to have enormous monsters trample over everything sounds utterly fantastic. Big shots from cannons flying everywhere, little men dying in their hoards, an empire unit champion giving a Chaos Warlord a damned good thrashing through chance alone. These are the things I like about Warhammer Fantasy and what GW have really brought to life in the new edition. High prices and awful salesmen I totally agree with you are an absolute crime. But the game itself – 8th edition – I think just needs to be given a chance.
nobbla if you’re enjoying the game then that’s great, and more power to you mate. I am not. Its too simplistic and has made everything far to random and taken the tactics completely out of the game. I’ve never done a cavalry heavy army, nor was I one of the chaos chariot army people (chariots as core!!!) but my armies were varied. There is no point in that now, heavy cavalry, like light cavalry and skirmish lines no longer have a place in the game. Its all about large blocks of infantry, which have no downside. Where are the negatives to larger units? There’s a reason that over time general’s moved to smaller blocks of troops. Easier to manoeuvre, easier to reform, quicker on the battlefield and easier to drill train.
Did core troops need a boost? Maybe, but with limitations, I still maintain that steady evolution of WFB was needed. BUT the biggest thing they need to sort out is the army books. Do them all at the same time. There hasn’t been a version of WFB where all the army books were done with the same version of WFB in mind. I just do not see the point in taking so long to get them out, added to the fact that 8th ed is such a big rules change, certain books just don’t work at all.
Also I don’t have any criticism of the staff in their stores. I feel sorry for them, the area manager in my area is a total idiot. I actually went in to buy some plastic glue to help put some scenery together with someone and he was there for a store birthday. Halfway through serving me he just upped and left to wander off to chat with staff and customers, so there I was stood at the till like some plum, the glue scanned my card in reader and the plank took 10 minutes to get back to me. Joker. The staff are given no resources to speak of and set meaningless targets, and criticised at every turn. They have a hard job selling a difficult product that at the moment has annoyed a huge chunk of their core customer base.
Also the price of individual mini’s isn’t the problem with me its the time aspect and the initial outlay for a new army. Its not worth it. Coupled to the fact that its really the modeling and painting side of the hobby I love GW’s plastic rank and file leave me cold. Give me the dynamic individual sculpts of other companies, like Infinity, Hell Dorado etc. because they’re a joy to paint and you can really go to town on them and putting them on the tabletop fully painting opposite another fully painted force somebody has loving created is what the hobby was all about… not rank after rank of unpainted grey plastic.
“Its all about large blocks of infantry, which have no downside. Where are the negatives to larger units?”
The thing is the balance in 8th is missed by many, these big blocks can be ruined by warmachines and nasty spells (dwellers!!) It has done a better job at balance than 7th, where it was basically MSU or bust. I don’t prefer 8th over 2th, I see merits and drawbacks of both.
The main thing I feel is GW are taking their customer base for a ride, if everyone stops complaining and still playing and moves to buying and playing other games, they will know they must change.
Warmachine die though and give away vp’s. In terms of infantry and large blocks I like comparing troops with troops and magic is just as devastating no matter what its aimed at. By the way magic is ridiculous in this ed as well, so more magic is NOT what WFB needs. lol.
I think it’s really sad that GW have so screwed up WHFB that they are having to inject new life blood into it, less than a year after it was launched. A little play-testing would go a long way.
Its an interesting point you make, 8th ed WFB is less than a year old and they’re already trying to inject ‘new life’ into it. This isn’t two or three years down the line trying to extend the life of a game system for all involved, putting a fresh spin on things. This will be less than a year into its life, we’re hearing about it now 6 or 7 months into its life cycle. Why?
I can’t wait to see the stuff I may not even use it warhammer do it up for my D&D games stuff like that.
Huge dragons are never lame!
Im guessing awesome new dragon and griffon models! 🙂
Although it is going to be interesting how this expansion will play out and if anybody will actually play, because only 2 out of the 5 40k expansions I see played from time to time. That’s apocalypse and cities of death, because I have never seen people play the other 3 at my gaming store. Seriously my local GW has like 20 battle mission books and have only ever sold a couple. Let’s hope this first fantasy expansion will be awesome with things that can change a game in new and interesting ways.
I hope for those still playing WFB its what you guys want I really do. The likelihood of it enticing my friends and myself back to WFB is currently 0. Apocalypse wasn’t popular because it was awesome to play, it was popular because of the awesome army deals and 3 vindicators for the price of 2!!! lol. If they do something similar with fantasy they might get an initial sales boost, obviously with lower profit margins but beyond that the market will remain stagnant I fear.
@sirangry: thanks, your german is not that bad (just one thing: dein Englisch, is correct instead of: sie English) But very good.
I agree with you, that a lot of miniatures are needed to play the game, but it’s simple to collect a huge army if you get it the fluffy side. Right now our club is creating a campaign (start is 1000 points, to in the End 2000 points) that will be running through the whole year. We’re running this campaign, because it’s like Nobbla says, the 8th ed. is fun to play and there are a couple of guys out there, who believe in it and enjoy starting a new army, or very new players to start Warhammer.
That’s a perfect way to start, low point-scale and enough time to get most of the stuff painted. And to be true, that’s how almost everyone started the game (correct me if I’m wrong^^), All the cool new stuff, like armageddon or the new expansion to warhammer fantasy, are maybe epic-scale, but you don’t need them to start. Take your time and have fun, thats the hobby about.
I just don’t agree with the prices and the recycling of the books, they do. (They sure lost the plot there and have to think about it)
The game is cool, there is just one thing to remember, don’t follow the white rabbit (Dwarf) when starting a new army, all the “how to paint a army the quick way” stuff will dicourage most new players. And make smaller steps, 500 point-steps 2-3 times a Year, is enough, and right more fun, cause you can’t put that much into it^^.
I would like to see some useful information from GW to new players (who don’t have about 5000pound and nothing to do the whole month) how to get started and how to build a army the slow way. (GW, there are many people out there, who would love to start the game, but thinking about around 350pound to start, shocks them too much)
Thanks Hawivus, maybe you’re right. However in the GW’s case they should look at me and think why isn’t he playing our games. I have the 1st, 2nd, 4th (in drop pods) and 10th companies of the Ultramarines. I currently have about 5000 points worth of Dwarfs, and a large collection of Wood Elves somewhere, all already painted to, if I say so myself, a pretty damn good level. So why am I not playing? I have an 8′ by 4′ gaming table in a room dedicated to wargaming in my own house!!! Plenty of friends to play with… yet we play Homachine 😉 Infinity, Hell Dorado and Malifaux. We’ve always played WFB so why not now? Its because the game isn’t fun anymore for us, its a dull negative game about points denial, who wants that? Not me.
My first thought on this was… cool…. then I realised that we rarely get to play above 1000pts due to time constrains and a single table with many gamers. So no matter how cool the rules and models are I know I just won’t get to play it 🙁
Huge, expensive models are cool for us veterans. If you are 30+ you compare the price for a new dragon to the price of pimping a car or going for a diving cruise in the Maledives and the dragon turns out quite cheap in comparison.
However to survive this hobby needs to be price-competitive with the Playstation or World of Warcraft.
What brought me to the hobby initially in the 90s was the 2nd ed. 40k starter box. Sure it had a paper dreadnought and cardboard ruins but you got everything you needed to play a cool game there. It didn’t feel like “it’s just a teaser, go spend 500GBP more to play really”.
GW should IMHO put more emphasis of the great fun of smaller, scenario-based games. Right now they seem to promote only large tournaments with a lot of cheese that additionally scares new players away.
I think the best thing to do for gaming clubs and such is to actually play games of :-
Mordheim
Warhammer Skirmish: Redux
Bloodbowl
Necromunda
etc etc…
If the actual skirmish and smaller cost side of their games get played they are going to have to focus on changing the way they do business. I have a nice 2000pt Dwarf army and play with it occasionally but the real fun side of things for me comes when me and my gaming group do small scale skirmishes with our armies, play Mordheim with our warbands, get in a few matches of Bloodbowl (Norse ftw!) and even dip into the craziness that is Necromunda. Its more fun to play a game with a handful of miniatures that all have grown their own personalities than playing a massive 4000pt battle where (as some have said) it takes feckin’ hours to even set up the thing.
I really, really hope that GW at some point will look at their games and understand that there is no viable entry point into the hobby. It’s really frustrating to have to turn to a young’un in our group who wants in on it and have to say that he/she should get into Mordheim first – only for their to be no support for it on the GW front. But, despite that we buy them a small regiment and help them make up a warband and sure enough they have a whole lot of fun. They need to do what Wizards of the Coast have done for D&D. Create a nice and inexpensive entry point (like the red box) for players to get a game straight out of the box – and no Island of Blood just does not cut it.
I am currently in the process of working out with my group a series of 500pt Warhammer senarios and story based campaigns so that people with smaller armies can actually enjoy their first foray into Warhammer and get to see a bit of the background behind the rules and the massive hordes of plastic they seem to be seeing nowadays. It might not work, but we’re sure as hell going to give it a go – if it doesn’t work out then we still have Warhammer Skirmish to get them going on and thats pretty awesome.
Brennon, there are better skirmish games out there now than the woefully under supported GW games of Mordheim and Necromunda (both games I loved). I urge you to give them a go, things like Malifaux, Hell Dorado, Anima Tactics so forth and so on. For about £35 you have pretty much all you need for Malifaux. For roughly £60 you’ll have a great rulebook and nice little force for either Hell Dorado or Anima. For about £70 and the free online rules you will have a kick ass Infinity faction with options. Once you break away from the GW you’ll realise that there are much better alternatives out there. Buying somebody else’s product is what will really make the GW sit up and take notice. I mean I can’t believe they haven’t looked at how insanely well Spartan Games products like Uncharted Seas and Firestorm Armada are doing and not said “why did we stop supporting Gothic and Man o War?” and looking at Dystopian Wars and how that’s going they might well start saying why’d we kill Epic and Warmaster? Ironically other people it seems are able to take lessons from the GW product range thay GW themselves can’t. They must have dreadful market researchers.
Oh don’t worry I do know about all the others lol. I have started playing Infinity with the Quick Start rules, Dystopian Wars and indeed Uncharted Seas. All very good games. Was more suggesting things that fans of the Warhammer IP could enjoy without having to spend a bucket load on models.
The background of the actual Old World is fantastic and one of the reasons most people get into it – so having a cheap way to get into the world itself was more my aim. There is even a better ruleset for Mordheim called Coreheim which my gaming group uses as well – quicker, easier to get into and sorted out a lot of the problems with the game that hadn’t been sorted out since it was disregarded by GW.
No problem Brennon just giving a heads up. I personally think the Old World fluff is a bit generic fantasy really, nothing to write home about. It was always more about the game for me. Ironically 40k’s background has always grabbed me more but the game never did. Rogue Trader wasn’t my bag and while I loved 2nd ed 40k I could always understand why it needed simplifying because the game was supposed to show big armed conflict than the rules actually allowed you to do expediently, the fluff though has always been great and although it does borrow heavily from many sci-fi sources, Greek mythology and even the Bible its a unique mix. I’ve given up trying to promote GW games or support them because there are just better games out there that have great background in their own way. I personally wish the guys at Corvus Belli would hurry up and give us an Infnity graphic novel we know they’re more than capable of delivering because I think the Infinity universe is utter genius.
I agree with you sirangry, the 40k background is just epic, while the WHFB-background, seems to be boring over the years.
And I can understand you, playing Warmachine and other stuff compared to the older editions, the 8th is too straight, and not that much to think about.
I also love Warmachine and hordes, got about 100-points Khador and Legion, and it’s fun.
Warhammer is a long lasting game at the moment, 1-2 hours are gone very fast and in a game about 4000 points it’s just the preparation and the first turn.
I think there are enough games out there, and everyone has the choice, maybe GW will understand in time, that this choice is not going to be for their favor.
I’ve always felt other way on fluff, 40K was never up to much and is far too imperium centred, the fluff stays fresh cause they change it. They need to put more fluff into both games, and would it hurt them to progress the story any, ever??
OH wait, can anyone tell me more about “Warhammer Skirmish?” I know there where some sort of skirmish game in one of the older rule books is this the one you’re talking about? I really would like to use my already painted models so a skirmish game sounds great! links? pdfs? scenarios?
@tenntrollet
http://www.scribd.com/doc/17717828/Skirmish-Rules
Above is the link to one of the Warhammer Skirmish rulesets, I think there are more than one. I haven’t bothered with it for some time now though so I’m not sure where various fan sites are with it.
Mordheim was good in its day but its been surpassed by other games now though… However you can’t grumble for free 😉
Hello Tenntrollet, go on the GW website and look up Mordhiem in the specialist games section. From there you can download the rules of the game for free. An excellent skirmish game, enjoy!!!
Nice, thank you all. Going to look around and see if there’s anyone playing this in Malmo, Sweden. I think it looks ok, doesn’t get my heart pumping like Infinity but since I already have a lot of painted Orc/goblins why not give it a try?
Maybe I missed some kind of legal ramification, but why havn’t we, the Warhammer gaming community, created our own worldwide, internet based gaming standard? What I mean by that is a website that balances games such as GW through a community based voting system. It would be completely grass roots to start with, free, and open sourced. So basically you have a website where each member has an account with an associated email, and each member gets one vote per multiple choice item. For example:
What should the toughness of a Steam Tank be?
A) 10
B) 7
C) 8
D) 6
E) 5
Each item would have some kind of time length for the voting, after which the majority wins and then this becomes THE standard for the game – WORLDWIDE, and there’s nothing stopping the community from revising the new ruling after it’s been played for a while.
It’s time for the players to take control of the game. We’ve spent hundreds, if not thousands, on the product and we deserve better. We have the models and the books, all we need is for continuous play balance via community based input. I’ve been considering starting this site myself, but I’m not that savvy about web page creation, html, etc., but I might just start a simple site to get the ball rolling..
I know there is direwolf, but it’s not enough. There needs to be one independent website that EVERYONE goes to for reference. The GW armybooks would just be a starting point… One main thing I would stress though, is to avoid nerfing as much as possible, and instead focus on boosting – that way players don’t have to shelf their models, and if anything it should promote sales of new models..
So anyways, I just thought I’d throw this out there, f you have ideas about this, please tell me!
I’m sorry to say it, but this would never work. People are too bious to vote like this, and imagine the trolling… Besides, comptetitions would be really hard to organize, ppl would argue to no end if it’s not in a GW-covered book etc etc…
It’s a beutiful idea, but the gaming community is nowhere near ready for this kind of responsibility. Most of us are just kids in old bodies, that’s why we do what we do!
I wanted to add that there are a couple obvious quick for WFB:
– All musicians, standards and champions are 10 points each, until such time that a new army book says otherwise.
– A unit is capped to 3x the minimum size. For example, a unit of Night Goblins would be minimum 20 and max 60, but a unit of Black Orcs would be 5-15. This would be unless the army book specifically states a maximum of course. This could cut down the “blockhammer” effect and perhaps add some more tactical depth back in to the game.
Also, has anyone analyzed how the points values are calculated? I know it uses a basic human as a reference. Balancing the points cost of all the units seems an obvious thing we could all do, and again we could post it all on a common website for everyone to reference.
Oops, I meant “quick fixes” above…
WHF 8th edition is a good, solid ruleset. And I totally understand why GW is doing this. However I will not be participating for the same reason I stopped playing 40K Apocalypse games several years ago. Here’s how the typical Apoc game goes:
9:00 AM: I show up, unpack my stuff, wait for others to get organized
10:00 AM: Some semblance of order begins to form
11:00 AM: Game start
6:00 PM: Just having begun turn 3, we give up and call the game.
I spend the vast majority of the day sitting around waiting for other people to do things. This, to me, is Not Fun. Now, I would be totally willing to try one-on-one apocalypse (or Storm of Magic), but that never happens. It’s always twelve-people-per-table huge dogpiles where there are so many models you can’t see the actual terrain, much less actually maneuver.
Once again, simply Not Fun. Thanks, but I’ll pass.