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Warhammer Historical Gone for Good?
May 24, 2012 by brennon
It seems that Warhammer Historical may indeed be fading away like the Ancient Armies between its covers. Heading over to the website reveals a sombre notice for those of you who enjoyed this Historical Wargame...
After a little bit of digging it seems the Warhammer Historical line was handed off reluctantly to Forge World but even then it appeared the writing was on the wall for this game.
Outside of popularity at a few convention events and with dwindling demand the game began to fade away until it was no longer viable to keep it running. While existing stock can still be purchased elsewhere there will be no new content and we imagine the IP won't be moved to another company.
It appears the game was having limited success but the real question is did any of you folk play this? For those of you that did, where will you be heading next for your Historical Wargaming fix?
Let us know in the comments below whether this closure will be having any effect on you?
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Can’t say I ever played it but I felt reassured by the knowledge that it was there.
BoW Sam
I think we can all be fairly confident that Black Powder/Pike and Shotte/Hail Caesar et al. will fill the gap that this leaves.
I own the Warhammer Ancient Battles rulebook, as well as Armies of Antiquity and Shieldwall. I never got to play them, unfortunately, as miniature gaming outside of 40k is sadly lacking in my area, and historical miniatures even more so.
And I completely forgot to give my thoughts on the news. I’m kind of disappointed myself I don’t really care for some of the rules in Black Powder, and Field of Glory hasn’t really been able to grab me. That being said, since I don’t play I suppose my opinion counts for little i the long run.
Guess that explains why GW didn’t want their WW2 version to feature in Wargames Illustrated any more…
That’s a shame. I always really, really wanted to play Warmaster Ancients, Over the Top, and Legends of the Old West. I never got the chance to play them, or even purchase the books; Games Workshop didn’t exactly make it easy to purchase their historical rulesets, especially for someone across the pond. That, and GW didn’t do much promoting for their historical games. The success was always going to be limited.
Talk about a wasted opportunity! GW could have used Warhammer Historical to try out pdfs for gaming supplements and rules. They could have produced various (more than 3) dynamic historical vignettes–I know Games Workshop can do better than Wargames Illustrated! This is just disappointing news.
Dismayed to hear this, but can understand why the line has been dropped. Essentially games like the Legend series and Trafalgar/Waterloo, etc are represented by smallish scale of miniatures and the ranges out there are well covered by companies other than GW. Another factor may be that this will be incorporated into the FW website in due course; fingers crossed for this option.
If anyone gets the chance to play these games, get stuck in as they do play very well – there are a number of these games I intend to get my hands on. Hopefully I’ll still get the opportunity…
sad to see Warhammer Historical go. A cynical person might wonder whether this reflects GW’s plan to keep their customers entirely within their own hobby ecosystem. For WFB, LOTR and 40k a customer needs only GW stores and the GW site to get everything they need, and the more incurious customer will never look elsewhere. Since GW don’t make historical figures, a new player following the Warhammer Historical button on their site would need to start looking for alternative miniature companies- which means other wargaming retailers. At that point, they’ll probably discover WarmaHordes, Kings of War and other systems too, and GW risks losing that customer. Perhaps I’m being overly cynical, but High Street presence has always been GW’s USP, and in the internet age you protect that advantage.
Noggin you just pointed out what I thought when I read the announcement from GW.
I only played “Legends of the Old West” and further will do. It would have been nice to get more publications but there was’nt really a need to get more than the basic rule book and “Blood on the plains”.
I’m thinking we haven’t seen the last of these notices; just replace “Warhammer Historical” with “Battlefleet Gothic” or “Mordheim”. in the as-soon-as-our-molds-wear-out-and-we-don’t-convert-them-to-overpriced-resin future.
true but if it’s 28mm then there are a wealth of suitable minis available as long as the rules are there to download
I recently brought the new rulebook for ancient battles about 2 years ago – it was a lovely full colour new-style book but sad to see go.
Yes I play WAB
If you play other Warhammer games the basic mechanics are the same.
You could get a 40K/fantasy player up and running in no time at all.
I suppose it’s downfall was that everybody else made the figures apart from GW, so they were hardly likely to push it.
That said the rules are still out there as well as period army lists (codex) and they should now be cheap to pick up. You have the rules if you and your friends can play 40K/fantasy and have fancied a go at Ancients historical you’ll find this quite easy to learn.
As for alternatives I’am looking at Hail Caesar thanks to the guys at Warlord and I quite like the look of War & Conquest. Clash of Empires is another that I would like to have a look at.
Can’t say that GW have given Historicals a lot of support
TBH I never knew it was still going. Thought it had stopped yonks ago.
No wonder it has dwindled and only had limited success.
The writing was on the wall for this when they had that big 50% off sale around Christmas time unfortunately. Lots of good stuff in their books but with other companies, such as Warlord, putting out books of comparable quality now and able to back them up with mini ranges its a shame but not the end of the world. I’d recommend picking up Trafalgar and Legends of the Old West if you see them going cheap. Waterloo was good too but Black Powder probably a more useful purchase now.
Their Warhammer English Civil War was my entry into historical wargaming. These days I go to Iron Ivan for my historical needs.
I am primarily a HIstorical gamer and designer. It is a shame that GW could never succeed in the much much larger market of historical gaming. The standards are much higher for game design and GW games are pretty much considered Kindergarden gaming in the historical gaming.
There were a lot of good people envolved in the projects though and Flames of War was born from a project that started with GW Historicals. So it was worth it in the end.
Don’t hold your breath looking for Rick Priesty’s games to become the historical standard. He has a long long haul before he gets true acceptance in the community. He is trying though. I have never seen anyone flog their name all over the publications as much as he does. Blackpowder and Caesar are good basic games but nothing truly special.
I had no idea this game existed.
to blank with GW, They are going to fare. I understand why they did it but, man come on. There is so much out there that is not, I repeat not 40k, fantacy or lord of the rings. I just bought there new book and was looking forward to the second book. I switch to historical and was loving it. Here in CA, there was very little to no historical to speak and I could pick there historical and play with one fast read because I am a ex GW gammer and knew fantacy. GW are just becoming the bullies on the block and no one is calling them out.
when is enough enough?
If they would put a 10% into there historical like they do there big there this would not of blanking happend.
This happened because GW historicals was never supported in stores due to not producing figures where the main turnover and profit have always been for GW. Historicals was seen as a fob off to the community allowing a leap from GW sci fi/fantasy to historical without challenging the mind set of those weened on 40k and such. No real investment was ever made in it beyond a conversion to real world army ideas and tactics as it was never intended to be added to the core business.
When world economics clamped down hard it was on the cards that rationalisation would take place and historicals is the first sub sector to be removed. It won’t be the last. The GW business model for some time has been to maximise profits regardless of sector needs. When any manufacturer loses sight of the market place or abuses it with the single intent of taking money with both hands the final result is defined.
It is a British company and has a big market place share so I should be cheering them on but when they sacrifice all for profit margin I cannot find it in me to feel good about it. There are more deserving manufacturers out there for my cash but the main question is what will be the main must have rule set? For years GW has dominated this and it is the ruleset that drives the game and the army collections. This is also true of historicals where a main player has withdrawn from supporting it. There is a void. Who will fill it? What will become the standard must have rule set?
Not so sure why everyone goes on about profits, because what any and every business in a free market does is find a good/service to provide and figure out a price. Games Workshop’s price may be too steep for you or the goods they provide (finecast) might be shoddy, but do realize they are not a charity and that is a good thing as they employ many people in Britain and around the world.
GW made the decision to shelve a game that was too costly to keep going. This actually will allow others in historical gaming with the challenge of finding the right mini/rules/etc. GW would not have ventured into historical gaming for fun, there must be the possibility of historical gaming doing well. Now what’s left to do is for some bright soul to make it all happen.
By the way, maybe the Perry brothers can make it happen? They have the most amazing historical miniatures.
They could stick the rules up in PDF form like the other unsupported games at little to no cost /shrug
PS assuming the pdf downloads are still there of course …
I enjoy my Warmaster Ancients but Im not so keen on WAB…the source books for WAB are awesome…I have a shed load of them. Good news is that figures are independent from GW so the game cant really die
WAB struggled due to lack of support by GW, DBx systems and Field of Glory plus its basically WHFB so if you hate that your not be keen on WAB…IMO. You still see WAb played here and there, in fact I saw a game of the ECW variant in action last night.
Saddest thing is that all the specialist games are really good but get little love
Since there are stil a number of us even here commenting on historicals I think the reason it gets so little support is the amount of differing rule sets for each period and the figures are not sourced under one roof. Thus the real wargame is still raging. Which ruleset do we play and do we need yet another set of rules? I still have loads of the old wrg books… :s
What can be said. When you don’t give something a bit of coverage, people will never think about it. Really, how hard would it have been to add it in White Dwarf? Nothing much, just showing that this is on sale.
we have Rick, Jarvis, Alesseo and the perry twins to turn to. black powder has some great stuff and Rick and Alesseo just got together to make a book for bolt action world war two in god scale. I am sure they are going to pick up the slack, I know that I am in support of them now more then ever.
Blackpower and all the other Warlord-sponsored rulesets (and those by other companies) have effectively come in as replacements, written and play-tested by a lot of the same people as the Warhammer Historical range were.
I think I’m right in thinking their last release was the wild west and ww1 stuff some 3 or 4 years ago?
To my knowledge historical gaming has never relied heavily on GWs rulesets and will certainly survive just as well without them.
WAB was a good system and it sucks that GW would shut it down because they didn’t make the minis for it. Legends of the Old West were great rules and the Legends of the High Seas for pirates was good too. All of these rules should be made downloadable for free as one of the Specialist Games section on GW’s site. Any 40K or WFB player could easily pick up these rules.
It seems we do have a small core of historically interested people on the forums of BoW so at least GW pulling out has raised ‘our’ profile here. The other thought I had was there used to run a warhammer Ancients (Historicals ) tournament at Nottingham. I wonder if that has ceased also?
Removing the bridge between history and fantasy by GW has let the genie out of the bottle in a way. There is now no longer an excuse to lean on from the history community that people will drift into its community from the very well marketed GW products. There is also the problem that if you wish to play historical which rule set should you invest in and what chance is there of getting a game? That is really important as there is only slightly less investment in a historical army on start up than a GW one. The advantage to historicals though is once you have them it is hard for the figures company to tell you they brought out a new and imporved set with flintlocks instead of matchlocks..You see the drift I am sure.
The biggest hurdle that is faced is not no rule sets but there are lots of rule sets and all of them requiring different organisations and set ups. Black powder has been mentioned a few times so in many ways it has the attention of the pre mechanised but post/phasing out pike community. But what about other rule sets? I have Waterloo sitting on my shelf which seems to give a fairly good Napoleonic battle feel. But I bought it blind and no one ever seems to play it. Army lists? Where do we start? That is one thing you can say of GW. It produced a good idea to build armies with and listings giving you a clue how to.
I have suggested to Andy (Beerogre) on the Blackpowder thread that the history community gets a ‘table’ of its own where we can find all history posts via a hub. See if we can not only build a community here but swap advvice and hints as the GW people do? Any in favour of that?
“there used to run a warhammer Ancients (Historicals ) tournament at Nottingham. I wonder if that has ceased also?”
GW pulling out is analogous to the Romans clearing off.
Expect an influx of Jutes, Angles and Saxon games instead/.
Yes I really like Saga
ROFL! Very quick Happi! I like it!
Sadly in todays world it is more likely to be the Greeks next.
Victrix Greeks perhaps
I would have liked to have seen them try to sell these rules in the GW stores
“err no we don’t make the models but you can buy them from here. the price? well they range from about £1.25 for a metal figure to about £20 for a box of 40 odd plastics troops”
as @cadfael said there are so many rule sets. The problem is finding someone else who plays the same rules.
When WAB first came out I was hoping that it would be a sort of standard game that a lot of people would be able to play a bit like 40K where there is no shortage of opponents.
Here in the states at least it is going to really damage historical gaming because it was hard to find gamer or the rules. In the midwest and east it is a lot different then the west coast. I hope warlord games takes of because it fills like I am on a sinking ship, I want to keep this thread going so we get more press with BOW to beast of war more historical please. May even give some pointer for the new gaming who wants to get into historical, here in the state not the UK. The us markit is almost 100% domanated the GW big 3. We need your help what do you say.
I can understand ancient/mediaeval games not being taken up in the USA to a certain degree.
Though the more I think of it ancient should still translate well in the New World.
But would have thought that the War of Independence and the Civil War would be popular and a rich source for gamers.
I would be all over the ACW if I was Stateside! lol
Teach them pesky Rebels a lesson or two dagnabbit! *spit* *ding*
Bartender, another sasperilly on the rocks if you will!
that topic is big in the states as wee are very proud of are freedom. In the midwest and east cost it is very big and there is still a lot of history of i left over there. In the west cost it is not in your face you can not go and see the reinactment or the old building. The west cost need some help it seems that one the move to conquer the west hapend people forgot about history. The west coast really needs help
Dude,
At first I wanted to say “Your Crazy!!!” But I will not. Historical gaming is HUGELY bigger than all of the GW gaming combined. However it is far harder to penetrate because it is very insular. Stores cannot carry the hundreds of different companies product lines because historical gaming has hundreds of genre’s and doing so is impossible. SO historical gamers do not play at stores but in their own very elaborate and amazing private game rooms and clubs. Just to drive home the point. There are exactly 2 major fantasy gaming magazines to support the fantasy tabletop miniatures market. The historical market is so large that there are nearly 2 dozen. of those several are a much higher quality than White Dwarf.
In the U.S. the largest table top miniatures conventions are historical ones. Historicon, Cold Wars, Fall In, Battle for Augusta etc etc…..Historicon alone has 200 dealer 300 flea marketeers and twice the attendance over 5 days of convention than Adepticon. Look at Salute in the UK. Far and away a historical convention/show. GW historicals failed because GW’s game systems are TERRIBLE and there is a much much higher standard in the historical community where quality of play is concerned. You never see the horrible fights in historical games you see all the time on 40K tables over rules.
There are several large ancients rules sets all of which get many times the play that WAB ever got. You are not looking.
Go to TMP. The miniatures page and just go to any forum and start asking for players in your area. You will have no problem finding players. Before you know it you will be back playing Ancients, ACW, WW2/1, Napoleonics. ECW, COlonials and on and on with miniatures that cost a fraction of what GW charges and which are as good or better in quality.
GW does not own this hobby. It is just the single largest manufacturer for the smallest segment of the table top miniatures gaming hobby.
I was talking about the west coast here in the state, to my understand none of the big event you were talking about happen here in CA everything is in the midwest or back east. I am talking about CA.
sorry for the bad spelling:(
@cadfael Yes I do like your idea for posts meant to answer this morning but forgot.
@chibi I don’t think you have to n the states to like ACW. All the conflicts throughout history that I find the most interesting seem to be civil wars for some reason. they are generally more bloody.
@stucarius your right historical gaming is huge but lessons can always be learnt even from GW. There seems to a trend lately of certain companies grouping together so between them they produce the whole product from Rule sets to figures and scenery, just visit Warlord games web pages to see what I mean. Gripping Beast is another company that had a large stand at Salute with a number of other companies under the same umbrella.
@bornagain1976 cheer up I’ve wargamed for 40 odd years i have never seen such a wealth of goodies that we have now. we even get plastic troops now to bolster our armies.
My current ancient rulesets- 15mm
Impetus
DBA or HOTT
28mm skirmish= Pig wars
Havent tried it but I hear good things re saga
Kind of proves my point. Already several rule sets mentioned yet because of the period spread no real front runner can be named. To gain a hub there needs to be a central theme. I think with current activity on the site a blanket hub of Historical may be the best hub type. From there a discussion of different rule types by experience and figures can be sub sectioned under one roof.
Just because GW stops printing the rule set does not kill it by the way. Same goes for all WRG published rules and I have not heard mention of the rulesets currently being vended by Osprey yet. I am aware that other websites do support historicals but BoW really has put the zest back into wargaming and figure manufacture and collecting at least for me and I suspect many others. It should have a historical section promoting the best of this side of the community.
The guys do their level best to support wargames of all sorts but as much as Darrel tries to hide it you get the impression that historical unboxing is an utter pain to him. It would not be if he thought he was talking to a valued part of the community I am sure. (Sorry Darrel but based on your videos I had initially rejected the samurai and the knights you reviewed due to the way you took pains to comedy build them and wax lyrical about stacking sprues and bases…)
So how about it BoW? A historical hub?
I have played WAB some time ago. However I never took it up as at the time it seemed as soon as I took a serious interest in any GW system they dropped it. I would hate to guess which rule set will step up to be the most accepted there are a number of good contenders out there. I used to enjoy Principles of War for Napoleonic games but they seem to have gone out of fashion, in favour of black powder and other rules for 25-28mm figures. Partly I think due to the availability of suitable miniatures from Victrix and Perry. These new ranges seem to have over taken their 15mm predecessors maybe due to cost or just people prefer painting larger minis.
There will be those who continue to play WAB but the loss of support will mean no new comers leading to a slow death for what is essentially a good set of rules.
Loved it!
Black Powder and Pike and Shotte are a bit of a different flavour.
I agree with manpug – it was left to die in the realm of obscurity.
Glad I copied the errata etc before they shut the website.
I am kind of puzzled why it is if they felt it could no longer be supported they did not allow it to go free on the internet for those who wanted it. To withdraw all support seems a bit mean to say the least.
Getting back to the subject in hand. The reason Historical struggles compared to the GW supported sci fi and fantasy has everything to do with there being no clear rule set type winner and having to cover lots of different troops tactics and sub types over centuries of warfare. It is also why we struggle to have a voice in places like BoW where the communities assemble around rule sets. Warhammer was an easy lead in to playing historicals from a known ruleset. Maybe the best idea would be to form communities around eras and compare rulesets within those communities?
Maybe it was the fact they had produced an avenue themselves for players to leave the the GW fold. It would have been an easy transition from Fantasy to historical gaming and the other world of cheap wargaming.
I was trying to find it today and discovered it to my horror. I trust GW when it comes to rules and would have happily bought the rules without looking round at other options. I wanted to play a medieval era and im struggling to find that now. Its a shame GW couldnt have put the PDF’s up on their site like Battlefleet gothic. I understand them discontinuing the line but they have work they now could just share :/