May 29, 2018 by dignity
Warren checks in with the team who are busy making the final preparations before heading off to UKGE later today.
Many of you have shared your thoughts and feedback about the new OnTableTop platform we're launching so Warren takes a few minutes to address some of them and assuage your concerns.
Remember to say hello at UKGE!
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Great explanation, clears up so many questions
Pretty much everything I thought you were gonna say.
Also for comparison. DDR’s original logo.
It sucks on mobile etc compared to our new one.
That doesn’t look like the Dance Dance Revolution logo at all. 😉 😛
Just want to give my two cents on stuff. I am very happy that we’re moving in this direction (of course you’d say that Ben, you work here…) as it reflects pretty much my gaming experience right now.
I started off as a wargamer front and centre, painting models and playing out wargames in 40K and Warhammer. Now, I am a board gamer, card gamer, role-player…and a wargamer. OnTableTop offers the chance for people who fit into ALL of those communities to find a home here.
Remember…Beasts Of War is not going anywhere. We are still Beasties. I am still going to be reporting on models from different genres, creators big and small, and getting stuck into EVERYTHING that the gaming world brings to bear. We’re still going to be doing everything we did before…just with more of YOU in the mix as well.
I like the idea of having a “separate” platform to bring the wider gaming community together. I especially love the idea of giving a safe space for some communities within the industry to gain more visibility and help them grow without a lot of the Ball ache of dealing with setting up and administering a website and a forum etc.
Thanks for answering the questions. Personally I’m still getting used to the rebranding of Opal Fruits so On Tabletop may take a while for me to come to terms with but I appreciate more now of what your trying achieve So onwards and upwards and Good Luck
Next thing you know they’ll be renaming Marathons!
Surely such a thing isn’t possible
Excellent explanation. It is pretty much what I was thinking. Over all I think this is a good direction to go. It will be nice if a number of other creators have a place within OTT. While I can find most of what they are doing on Youtube or else where, I like the idea that I can come to one place and be able to see all the content that they are putting out. I’m sure there are plenty of issues and worries with this but I’d like to think in the long run we will all come out as winners.
Yes indeed, we have a lot of things to work out as we go 🙂
Hmmm… maybe OTT can ‘BE’ the new Youtube platform for future tabletop gamers? Ya never know.
I really like the direction that the OTT ship is sailing in. I wish you all fair winds and following seas.
@warzan I think you are on to the right track, and let face it not every game is a Wargame 99.9% are OnTableTop
That is a lovely play on the OnTableTop word @rasmus – and exactly one of the things that drew us to it mate. Really nice! – We may even steal that phrase mate 🙂 lol
I think I get it…
You want to provide an alternative to the platforms that are out there and more content.
The reason OTT has no content yet is because you don’t want it to be all BoW, and to get other folk onboard you’d have to tell ’em the name etc which has a bunch of problems if you want it kept secret, ergo no need to keep it quiet.
If that’s the idea, I like it.
If it all goes wrong, there’s always money in the Banana stand…
I don’t think they can grows banana’s in Ireland? XD
I’ve been to Ireland, there’s palm trees everywhere so surly there’s Bananas too.
In the strategic long-term, I thing the OTT addition is a good move.
1) “Beasts” and “War” are not words that many people outside of our community often understand or react well to when they are first presented. I can’t tell you how many times, when people ask about the work I contribute here and I tell them where it is … I get strange, sidelong looks, often just from the name.
2) I understand that many people feel the new brand is “corporate” – but having worked in corporate communications at a tech company, I completely understand and support the thinking (including the external consulting that apparently went into this) behind the move. Yes, Beasts of War is a much better “internal” brand, but when you’re hoping to expand, you don’t expand inward. You expand outward, and your branding has to appeal to people who “aren’t yet in the tribe.”
3) Breaking out OTT from BoW actually comes as something of a relief for me. Quite frankly I’ve been getting just a smidge weary of the meeples and the cards and the cubes and the Pokemon and the colorful chibis and the this and the that … I understand we want to be inclusive but are these things really “wargames?” Having two brands, or perhaps a “brand within a brand” – allows the team to be inclusive, to expand, to offer more coverage to more fans, more traffic to more advertisers, either way generating more revenue (which in turn leads to better service to us in the community), all while not actually “diluting” the experience for hard-core wargamers who want to smell gunpowder coming off the table. 😀
The “vanilla” doesn’t mixed up as much with the “wasabi” if that makes any sense – to both flavors’ benefit.
4) As the same time, I’m always glad to see the brand open up and include more kinds of wargames. The ideas that “one company and one system EVER dominated this market” only holds even the inkling hope of truth IF you limit one’s view of wargaming to miniatures, and really UK-based miniatures. Let’s continue to open the definition of wargaming to things BESIDES miniatures (it’s really only about 1/3 of the market if you measure by number of titles) – which I think OTT will embrace quite well.
Agreed mate and a lot of work will do into ensuring communities within the community can feel properly immersed in the stuff they love.
Historical gaming is a huge priority for me and my sincere hope is that via OTT we can encourage more and more folk to dip their toes in.
And hex and counters and other formats have to be part of that future too.
I am liking the idea of taking historical gaming OTT ?
Pretty much sums up my thoughts entirely 🙂
I am very much in favor of the step up from channel to broadcaster the OTT brand allows.
For me OTT is a logical evolution, with OTT being like a viacom or discovery network entity, each with multiple distinct channels, of which BoW will be just one…
Also leads to many interesting possibilities for the top level content of OTT, which could aggregate the news of its channels, highlight the most popular videos or content on its channels, and also promemtly display live streams to a more diverse audience, hell could even work with established sites, MWG for example could have an OTT channel which would be no different to what youtube gives it, other than the vids could be in a MWG branded page, with link through to their site, so they dont loose traffic by appearing on OTT, I would see community being similar in concept to how the stackexchange sites work (https://rpg.stackexchange.com/, https://history.stackexchange.com, https://stackoverflow.com) common login and profile across a network of sites, but each community is self contained, with a top level ott community similar in intent to https://meta.stackexchange.com/ possibly.
What if any original content would OTT offer, just big show coverage like gencon and UKGE where there is pretty much every genre of game style you can imagine on offer, or would we see round up/daily news shows as regular OTT content
BoW are going to need to hire more people than, Justin can only play so many games a week. lol
People don’t like change. It tends to freak us out a little. That being said I think part of the reactions your getting are from that “freaking out” plus you all have built something that folks love and care about and they don’t want to lose that. I think you guys should be pretty proud that folks don’t want change because they feel Beasts of War is going away. It means you’ve done very well. Once OTT gets up and going and Beasts of War continues on those fears and freaking out will be a thing of the past.
Myself, I’m looking forward to seeing what OTT brings to the community and hobby. If it gives others, and maybe myself, a chance to share content and be creative then I’m all for that. I think it gives us all a chance to contribute more to not only the community but the hobby. Wishing you guys all the luck on this adventure. 🙂
You should have called it Consignia… it worked so well for the post office. Cost millions a few years ago and lasted months before they changed it back again.
Haven’t missed a UK Games Expo for eight years and hoping to go this year, but family health could be an issue and that has to come first.
Only been a viewer of BoW for about a year, so no idea what it looked like 10 years ago, but I suspect it was rough around the edges.
When you are at Gen Con… try to get Wil Wheaton or Felicia Day from Tabletop on to OnTableTop just because it will get so confusing 🙂
If I was running a website I think I’d call it ‘MyDiceHateMe’, but that’s just how it is.
Why not consider a MydiceHateMe channel here at some point 😉
Because I believe there are millions of gamers out there whose dice also hate them (I game with three of them) and the channel would crash BoW if not the entire internet with responses… and that’s just doing Cyberdyne’s job for them.
lol
Interestingly there is a gaming youtube channel called DiceHate. Their logo is really clever. Unfortunately, apparently the word “hate” falls foul of of youtube’s algorithms which prevents their videos being recommended to people. I think they’ve accepted their lot as a small channel!
Yes I suspect we have been falling foul of that as well for a while
It’s sad how words have been usurped by social media and made into bad things.
Hate never used to be so negative… it was just dislike… I hate sprouts, but it shouldn’t mean i get reported to social media police…
Even trolls have been made into a bad thing… they used to be much nicer…
From I started watching BoW a year and a half ago I thought I recognised you somehow, have never put my finger on it, but I’ve also worked in media in NI for the last 20 years (a rare enough thing lol) so it’s quite possible we crossed paths along the way at some point, so maybe I can stop wondering about that lol.
Anyway, I’ve been working over the last lot of months (almost a year now that I think about it) on the format for a new tabletop show and possible podcast, what does OTT mean for someone hoping to launch a high quality production and looking to get eyes on it? Additionaly, would it limit posting that content elsewhere in any way?
FWIW, I really like the ontabletop name and logo, it makes a lot of sense in context of what you want that platform to be. A loud logo could easily override the logo and branding of the channels that exist on it. If I understand correctly, the channels themselves will bring the character and personality, such as BoW itself.
Yes we’d be very interested in you coming in to meet up and chat about this 🙂
Great stuff, I’ll take you up on that 🙂
I don’t see this as anything much different to what BoW have been doing recently anyway, just making it official. We have seen more board game, card game and RPG content on BoW recently and this is no bad thing. I think the days of being exclusively a mini gamer are over and the lines have been blurred between what is a board and mini game. I’m certainly looking forward to discovering new games and products that OTT will inevitably introduce me to, my wallet isn’t.
No problem with the name, as you say “it does what it says on the tin”. As to the logo, the TT has been made to look like a table and the O has been made a circle that encompasses all that goes on on the table. Well done Lloyd!
OTT will grow it’s own personality over time. I’m not worried about it as the same great team will be behind it. And i’m sure that a year down the line we won’t be talking about the name or logo because it will have become the new normal.
Best wishes going forward into a brave new world!
Apologies for being a bit thick, but what is On Table Top? A name change? Is the intent to close Beasts and rebrand or run both in parallel?
It’s not my decision, I think you’ve put a lot of work into it I’m just not sure of what you intend to do with it.
I’ve lurked on Beasts for about 7 years or so.. I think. You guys were a breath of fresh air from the over excited American channels. Cynical, grumpy, rational, reasoned. I’ll never forget with the release of the Khorne tank thingy Warren saying ‘it’s crap’. He was right! I also remember Workshop then screwing you and Wayland Games over, but that left room for a mass of other hobby content and publishers to have a place to get noticed.
I remember late nights as you all got steadily drunk sat on old furniture in a dark studio with Lloyd sat at his DJ station on the end of a table – and getting blotty with you all.
However you go I do wish you luck. I should invest in a backstage pass but.. at the moment there are too many plates spinning and you don’t do a buy a yearly one!
Go here @bubbles15 https://www.beastsofwar.com/featured/introducing-ontabletop/
I love the new direction, I love the name, the logo, the concept… heck, I´m thinking of doing a own small channel “OnTableTop”… Have to work on a concept, name and logo for that ^^
Great job guys!
Great explanation. Though the comment you quoted about “firing the designer” is one of my pet peeves. Someone, or a group of people worked hard on that and they are human beings. I REALLY wish people would remember that. Working in the computer game industry, I see that kinda thing all the time and it really boils my piss.
Anyway. Looking forward to seeing where this all goes!
Yeah it’s not the kind of thing anyone with any experience of the industry would likely say. But I wanted to address as much as I could good bad and ugly 🙂
Your cable management is a nightmare! XD
Great explanation Warzan. Ten years ago 40k (not just GW, 40k alone) pretty much *was* the hobby (although Warmachine and its infamous Page 5 was making inroads), together with all the “metal”, 14-year-old-goths-in-trenchcoats assumed audience. Nowadays, the gaming world is so much more and a platform that seeks to service the current tabletop gaming world in an umbrella capacity needs to be much more inclusive. Keeping BoW as the main brand risked it becoming as outdated as GW’s “red period” seems to us now, even though in the early 90’s red was da shizzle!
I have to say I did have concerns over “blandness”, not specifically in terms of the name, but more regarding the logo and specifically the teal/turquoise colour. But as you explained its purpose I get that this is not a problem but an explicitly chosen feature for a brand that is intended to sit in the background behind other brands (of which BoW will remain one) who are promoted. I completely get it. As an enabling brand it hits the mark.
I salute your courage and entrepreneurialism (and if that isn’t a word, it should be!) and look forward to where the platform is going to in the future as an opportunity to widen access and the voice of us all – as individual gamers and hobbyists, clubs, companies, artists, artistes, etc. etc. A true multimedia hobby channel of awesomeness is within our grasp, as a community.
Thank you for taking the risk and making the effort. As a backstager, I am proud to have helped in a small way to birth the OTT!
I had a fair share of thoughts and opnions on A. the redesign B. the OTT platform and I wanted to post some opinions or complains or even concerns and then I thought to myself :
The BoW crew has thought much harder and longer on these things than I have, so my 15 seconds weight of thinking isnt worth posting.
But yeah, I really was waiting for someone to explain how to use the tools you provide to us and I hope you will take time to enlighten us further
I think you should do something similar for none backstagers, but then again, what do I know : D
Meh armchair brand designers, always know better…
How much time and effort devoted in a brand name and logo is vastly underappreciated, also what the hell with “fire X guy” do people have lost any empathy? would they like to hear that for themselves?
Moving on I am vastly surprised you people dismantle workstations and pack cables, I was expecting given you make quite a few on site shows to have an extra set of cabling packed ready for the show and not dismantle existing cabling, leaving the cabling in place for faster easier re-connection.
I know professional cabling is expensive, but it cannot be that much expensive.
Ordered but didn’t arrive on time mate 🙂
Aww sucks they never seem to arrive on time, still next time they will be there, I assume they will be a foundation for a mobile studio that will get independent with time and funding?
I like and do not like the backdrop, the light blue seems too subtle on such a huge display, not sure how well it will support as a backdrop or get lost, trial will of course show that, my biggest comment is the OTT is quite smaller than the other elements in the squares making it feel less important.
Now a more esoteric question was OTT logo designed with intent to read as “OP” given the table element reads as π? or it was accidental?
Still skirting the real question people have on their minds, will there be a return of On The Table? (I know you answered my question on the other post but I wanted to get my dig in 🙂 ) I really think this old show which at one time aired on the Geek and Sundry site and launched a few of us over here to become Beasts was the beginning of what you are attempting with OTT. A quick high paced show with the upcoming stuff from around the industry.
Overall I like the idea of OTT, this system has worked well for others that started in the YouTube market. Many of them have grown a brand and then started to deliver content from others so that there is a home with out the issues that surround YouTube and other social media companies. These companies are in the middle of a time where they wish to pick the winners and losers of the content creators and if at any time it doesn’t go the way they wish they will cut you out. Right now here in the States there is a rather diverse gaming community but most of the content and the creators are coming from a small and very select group that are acceptable for the social media companies (this isn’t politics but more of coming from within the tech industry or being part of the media industry with ties back to the techies) or at least these are the ones that are promoted and have the strong capability of being monetized. To be able to break from this you must find a different model that can work for you and that you can work within to grow and find ways to be monetized. The growth here at BoW shows that the system can work and if this becomes the home for others to spread their wings there could be some awesome growth.
This will be an interesting study as you work to grow this business model and as usual aside from the relaxation that the hobby gives me it is nice to look at other businesses and look at their practices as this allows me to nerd out a bit on the business side without it being my business. My business is WORK and watching your business allows me to step back a bit and recharge that part of my brain without the added stress.
Best of luck
Oh and on a serious note: since YouTube is an ever evolving… “mess” have you thought on using different platforms for your videos? You might want to look into PeerTube. It’s a decentralised Video Platform similar to YouTube but you are in control of your videos. https://joinpeertube.org/en/faq/
Loved this explanation and addressing points.
I have been a member of BOW for 10 years (how?) and only posted something last year!! I used to be only into Warhammer 40k and that was my only interest. Back in the day, 40k used to be the only videos I watched on BOW Youtube. I tried the site, fair enough as soon as it was launched and strongly disliked it and the change from the Youtube platform. I couldn’t even figure out how to view anything on the first site. I feared for the end of my 40k videos!
As beasts of war has grown (up?) I have grown with it. I now no longer play 40k at all. These days I play board games and Infinity and lots more, but always looking for something new that peaks my interest. I love to dive into other content even if it turns out I am not interested. I even like to post my own stuff on the before dreaded site.
I was on the fence about the change didn’t say anything before this video. If I were creator or still in the creative industry I would not want to be under the BOW brand if I had my own entity. I would need to be in BOW or outside it.
From this point of view alone I can see why the change had to be made for OTT to grow. If BOW was to make every content creator out there that they wished staff then BOW would need a lot more revenue streams just to keep the staff paid and the lights on.
After all that, I am off to paint stuff and try and break the project system with loads more updates.
Thinking this is a good thing!
Seems like a solid move that becomes all inclusive.
There is a lot of content on the site as it is that I never touch. But that’s perfectly OK as it does provide the content that I want.
I’m thinking folks will be able to find what they want and OTT allows all comers the initial thought that there is something for everyone.
BLUF: I’M ALL IN!!!!
One other point.
I mainly come to this site and watch the weekenders and XLBS to be part of a community. So its basically the social interaction that keeps me glued to this, even though i’m not interested in actually playing many of the games.
If this means I will be able to access the wargaming content without having to sort through the card games, board games and board games with miniatures then I will be happy.
Not everyone likes change, many are happy to stay in their little bubble. After your explanation it seems the bubble will still be there but there will also be lots more for others too. I’ll admit when I first heard the name I was a little unsure as well, though, even these past few days it has started to grow on me. I really like the way you’re going, I’m a wargamer at heart and have only recently started to expand my gaming experience. It may seam that by also focusing on the wider gaming world wargaming may take a back foot, however, this hasn’t happened for me. Delving into other types of tabletop games has only given me further ideas and inspiration for wargaming. In fact since playing other tabletop games I think I’m playing more wargames too. I think this move will prove to be a good one and will open up so many doors for people that they didn’t know were there.
Keep up the good work 🙂
@warzan
Thanks for the explanations. I’m nearly sold on the name now. Not on the font and colours tho. Having a wife and three daughters I still can’t help it and have to think of this:
The general concept is sound and I hope you will be proven right. As much as I love the current name and despise anything smelling ‘corporate’, I agree with @oriskany. OTT is much more PC and therefore probably the better choice.
I’m not a card or board gamer, historical wargames is enough for me as main focus but I do admit having enjoyed @doctorether’s DDR stuff so I’m all for diversity!
Godspeed OTT
Let’s face it most people are quite resistant to change I see this every day in my work we are creatures of habit and familiarity. There is well document change process we all go through regardless of the subject https://www.mindtools.com/pages/article/newPPM_96.htm
I think what you doing is essential for your business/brand/community to grow. I love BoW and I love being a BoW backstager because I feel like I am supporting something that is very much about the people, could I become as passionate about OnTableTop…. absolutely I could if people/spirit/values and principles are there which is down to the leadership and people involved.
This happens a lot look at a big example like Amazon… it originally was a platform for selling books.. then household good years on fashion then digital content through Prime, it is now the biggest cloud hosting platform in the world under the banner of AWS (Amazon Web Services)… This platform is now used by some of the biggest companies in the world… Netflix on AWS (Much like Mantic OnTableTop). Even Google knows it must become more and diversify hence the creation of Alphabet.
I think the point that OnTableTop is the supporting brand for others to help boost/support/be a place for others in the community I think is a hugely ambitious and thus I completely get the brand being subtle/quiet/supportive. You have BeastOfWar for being brash, loud and crazy!
By the way, @warzan pretty you said “Laughingboy OnTableTop” so that is a binding contract right?
All the best gents, this will be tough but stick to your guns and trust your knowledge and experience.
Martin
I must say that it has start to grow on me as it kind of just works with everything gaming related.
The only downside is that there isn’t an easy nickname for community members.
Beasties … it had something.
Maybe we should refer to us as ‘Ottos’ or ‘Otties’ or ‘Oddities’ ?
We’ll see, won’t we ?
The one thing that we as a community need to be aware of is the spectre of elitism and entitlement that tends to sneak in communities as they evolve.
That feeling that we were there at the start and that BoW/OTT owes us something special.
It’s insidious and can lead to dark things.
Rather than focus on entitlement and such negative aspects we should be make the new guys & girls feel welcome to the OTT community.
However … I think if any community can handle this change it’s this one.
We are all friends and family here.
And I reckon that feeling of being a part of something friendly and nice is why we came here and never left.
I know I did.
Thanks for taking the time to respond to this, I think it is an important conversation to have with the community, and it is good to see you will be taking it slowly. So there will be time to see what works and what doesn’t.
The branding, and sharing the platform, and the name, all make sense and I totally get that.
What I still don’t understand is there seem to be two conflicting goals, and I see in the comments here people celebrating both of them.
Either the BeastsOfWar (as opposed to OTT) will become more focused on more strictly miniature wargames, and thus the community will lose some members who are here for the “next-door to wargaming content”. But the flipside is you get to go deeper into those things that perhaps the core of BoW was always intended to be about, and that may well please that hardcore more, and bring in more of that kind of audience.
Or, BeastsOfWar is going to become more inclusive, because it will be so heavily linked through OTT, that will allow things that perhaps would never have found a place in BoW. At which point BoW becomes less-focussed on miniature wargames, and the community becomes much wider and much more people interacting and seeing all kinds of different content. Inherently though there is then less depth on each individual subject in BoW not more.
It’s hard to imagine a situation where both of the above are true. I am not sure that I prefer one over the other, I’m just not sure what is intended here.
Will OTT become like a parent network (like say “Geek N Sundry”) BeastsOfWar being a channel within that? With lots of sister channels (e.g. beastsofwar.ontabletop.com and historical.ontabletop.com). If so, does that mean I need to remember to subscribe to historical as well, if I don’t want to miss content that use to appear on beastsofwar, but now isn’t because there is a more appropriate sister channel?
Will I be able to chat cross-channel? So can I post something on historical.ontabletop.com and share that with someone on beastsofwar.ontabletop.com, or will they need to have subscribed to both channels in some way?
I know these are details that are probably not worked out, but I guess I just want to understand, what is going to happen to the community.
I may be getting totally the wrong end of the stick here or failing to get something obvious! It’s late and I’m tired, so that is very possible 🙂
From my understanding, it means BoW as a channel can more tightly focus on wargaming, and the BoW team, can spinoff new channels, that they maintain, that focus on board games, cards games etc. Likewise that means Darker Days Radio can be a channel, and be tightly focused on horror gaming. And Knights of Ren can be tightly focused on Star Wars gaming. Other channels can also emerge from teh community – card games based, historical based, larp based, etc etc.
Now what does that mean for communities? I think the BoW community will be the same, and the OTT community will be the larger community it exists in, and parts of the BoW community will also then identify more with a particular channels that BoW spinoff, and new ones that are hosted. But over all it will be a larger community.
The depth comes from people going to a particular channel and finding more quickly the topics they want, and the info they want. The broadness is the array of channels to dip into. Finding channels will also be quick as you will find them linked to particular games, or game types.
I mean to be quite honest not all the BoW content I find is for me currently. But then that is because a good portion is board games I just don’t care for, or card games. I equally can imagine a good amount of people turn off when I have been on BoW with Kingdom Death or World of Darkness stuff.
DarkerDaysRadio.ontabletop.com would be nice. Because again, as much as we use podbean to distribute content, the opportunity to have a community here, that is better supported in terms of hardware and infrastructure, and hopefully, would get better “footfall” from those browsing.
I can see the need for a OTT weekly or monthly show that collates the hottest and newest content from the OTT community to enable that crossover. So OTT I can see operates as a well maintained curator of gaming.
I think you’ve hit the nail on the head there, the crossover bit will be key to making it all work and get the best of both. Making sure the community can remain as much as possible one thing, whilst finding space and time for sub-sets to delve deeper into the bits they are most interested in. It would need to stay deeply connected in the back-end, even almost being one site really, but with channels essentially being a re-theming of the content (e.g which threads, videos, projects) are presented to you when you switch channel, but it still being one big system. That would work very nicely for a video that might say appear on two or three channels (e.g. painting.ontabletop.com might focus tightly on painting aspects, but perhaps some of your lovely work on Kingdom Death painting, you might want to feature that on that channel, but also your own ddr ott channel).
Something like that anyway, thanks for those thoughts, I can feel some of the panic subsiding 🙂
Big thumbs up boys, the logo and rebranding looks great. Also, if Lloyd ever blows the dust off his Tau the new logo would look great in place of the Tau symbol. I’m not suggesting he had this in mind all along, just sayin’. *nudge nudge wink wink*
Now to put my 4 year student designer hat on, and with a healthy dose of ‘tongue in cheek’, let’s think of some alternate names. That hit, umm… yeah none of the points you needed.
* Justin’s War Mammoth… & co
The logo speaks for itself, just add hair
* The Sammy Dodgers
Also, you could produce a line of biscuits to sell at conventions
* The Neverending Project, featuring Jon and an airbrush
Bit wordy but if you could Weird Al the old movie theme song you’ve got gold
“The neverending prooooject
Where Jon sometimes paints a tank…”
* Tom’s Table Top
Just for the TTT and the logo could be Tom’s resting programmer face of “I’m looking for a , where there should be a .” look.
So yeah On Table Top is pretty good.
Just have to say I love the Avatar pic, Count Duckula FTW!
I’ve de-evolved in the last 10 years….. but I’ve enjoyed myself!
Lloyd’s work on the graphics etc has been exceptional, I also trust him to make the best/right decisions. I say good luck to ya! You have a supporter in me!
As for a name suggestion……is “Crab Fucker” too much?
Just realised that the sentence “You have a supporter in me” could be misconstrued as something dodgy….I would like to state for the court that I currently do not and will not, ever, have a Beasts of War supporter inside me!
Never say never. One day you might really need the money.
If you start them young enough there’s at least a chance that part of the community could have a supporter inside of them biologically speaking.
minimum age : -9 months …
Can’t start them young enough 😉
I like OnTableTop. I am a fan and the VLOG explained it well. I also work in IT. I am a software architect and I work with a Human Factors Team for all my projects. I disagree with the new BoW monochrome logo and with a simple bit of coding you can make it color or monochrome depending on the platform where it is going to be displayed as that is how the company I work for does it. I cannot deny the prevalence of mobile devices but I rather use my 30″ screen for looking at content on BoW/OnTableTop. To me, the logo and Font next to it is meh! Contrast that to the new OnTableTop Logo and Font and blue background and the new OnTableTop is a breath of fresh air vs the very bland BoW logo and header. Fans of this site, including myself, were expecting that both sites are given the same type of treatment. While I understand that BoW will be taking a backseat, the logo and header seem to be putting into the closet in contrast.
IMHO, I would have given BoW a similar treatment. With OnTableTop you have pictures of cards, dice, coins, meeples etc. You could have done the same with BoW. Use Camouflage Colors/Army Colors and used icons of Swords, Shields, Helmets or maybe a dragon head or coats of arms to represent miniature wargaming. Now the two have synergy and are from the same family but with distinct personalities. This gives you a theme to build on for future sections of the site as well.
All in all, glad to see the site moving forward and not standing still
Thanks so much for sharing the process and reasoning. Obviously this decision wasn’t made lightly but it is interesting to know some of the path that got you here. Have loved being a Beast of War and look forward to being a part of On Tabletop. Yep, rolled right off the tongue.
well I’ve had a blast navigating around the new 2.0 place(s), setting up some new project plogs and seeing how stuff works and where it is etc. The amount of work you folks have put into it is just mindboggling and the result is an absolute credit to yourselves. OTT….. First up thx muchly for making the above video chat thingy and going through members comments/concerns/ramblings both positive and negative and addressing them. Keeping folk in the loop and listened to is so appreciated and a real strength of how BoW has always been run imho. Had a couple of days thinking about the OTT thingy and still not 100% sure how tis all going to work but think I got the general gist! The name……….OnTableTop….seems fine to me tbh. One of those does what it says on the tin names I guess. I’m not sure I’d especially call it inspiring or WOW factor~ery (yes yes I do make up words – I’m an english teacher, we’re allowed to…… I think 😉 ) but is not misleading, confusing or offensive either. Dividing hobby off into various areas but under the same banner…ok. I would just hate to think of BoW ever dissappearing off – always loved the name and the logo. Its evocative, exciting, very much linked to the hobby and has become a name that everyone knows. Beasts of War…….rawr!! OnTableTop….. maybe more linkable to the hobby and the games etc but not as impactful imho. Anywho – its what you have planned ahead and with it that will be the really important part. The logo….the logo confused me at first as i thought someone was crying!!! TT or ㅜㅜ over her in Korea is the text shorthand for sad or crying!!! With a circle around it it becomes a crying emote! So that kinda threw me! As a logo I really don’t like it (sorry Lloyd) it evokes…….nothing in me. I know you were talking about the real estate and demands a logo can have esp on mobile devices but still soemthing a little more graphic or exciting might connect the new name with the old more comfortably. Crying Circle just reminds me of some company or business that makes something or other which no one really is that bothered about. BoW most certainly is NOT that! Anyways…….. excuse my lengthy ramblings. Just my two cents worth. Keep up the great work as ever and thanks a million to you delightful group of nutters for all you do 😀
I for one welcome the direction you’re taking with this and I actually like the name and logo 🙂
I wonder how long it will be before Asmodee buy up one of the bigger content providers? They own a lot of the board game companies, have the distribution as well, so the next move would be to buy and control the online content. Games Workshop have been more active recently in making their own content, but are reaching out to the likes of The Dice Tower to spread the word beyond their core market.
The new branding for BoW in to OTT makes them a ‘rival’ to both The Dice Tower and BGG. With TDT and BGG both making similar content at conventions, what will OTT bring that is fresh to the table?
I like the concept behind the OTT move and have been enjoying the changes on the 2.0 site so far 🙂
We’re Beasties, we accept all, well almost all, well maybe not all, only as long as they like our stuff 😉
I’m not particularly bothered about the logo changing but with the new design 66% of the initial screen is an advert for Godslayer. If I select another page I have to scroll down to see if the page has actually changed. I know you need advertising for the business (although I thought it was us Backstagers that did that 😉 ) but with the amount of space that ad takes up I find it really annoying.
There’s an option to turn off the advertising if you’re a backstager isn’t there?
Turns off everything bar the full takeover as it’s part of the design.
Same as previous site
Never tried it, just noticed it the other day when the new site launced and I was going through the profile pages.
I already have those turned off. At the moment the only ones it seems to affect are the BoW merch ads.
It turns off mini badges and mega badges and the home and side takeovers
The full takeover is part of the site design it doesn’t switch off 🙂
i have been on beasts of war since before turn 8 have loved the content and seen many changes im sure this will work and trust the team to get it right good luck
Didn’t make a comment earlier as was not really sure what it meant, and where it was going, so other than my usual ‘Very interesting!’
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_SVSak1oBCw
Wasn’t sure about the name , but the it was free and the other names would cost £2000 sold me
and as someone pointed out above, the initials are OTT
Anyone remember the adult Tiswas!
A really good video to explain what you meant and to meet peoples reactions. I for one look forward to opening up for other “hobby” content creators. I like that BoW continues to build on the incisiveness and open up the platform for new content creators that might have been daunted by trying to start alone on say youtube.
I might even be tempted to try a little creation of my own. Been thinking about it for several years but felt that I didn’t have anything to contribute. Here at BoW you feel welcome anyway so cheers guys for raising your eyes to the horizon and look ahead for all of us.
Your vlog reaffirmed my thoughts that your not re-branding Beasts of War, your building a platform and framework for Beast of Wars and other brands to call home. For me I was starting to get a little annoyed that Wargames were getting mixed with boardgames. When you want wargames, you don’t want no boardgames!
Now they can both have their own space and I now longer have to sift through content I don’t want to watch (well eventually). I think the name is very clever, nice work to yourself, your team and especially Loyd.
Looking forward to more content from BeastofWars ‘OnTableTop!’
The tempered and level-headed reactions to this huge change just shows how special this community is. At the some time it also shows why people are so engaged in keeping it that way.
Way back several years ago when I heard about Beasts of War I was not attracted to the site because of the name actually. Mind you I was a tabletop gamer and hobbyist since the late eighties and always loved the whole hobby and the people in it (I remember thinking of Jervis Johnson rocking those cool shades in White Dwarf in the early nineties). But I still felt that a place with such a name was not a place for me. To me it sounded closer to the bad types of YouTube comments than the nice community I felt reading White Dwarf as a kid. However a friend recommended BoW to me some years ago and I have been a backstage member ever since!
I love the idea of making the brand more inclusive and diverse. The thing is; the content doesn’t need to change that much, since it is already very broad and treated respectfully (very few phallic jokes during the My Little Pony segments for example).
Some people have criticised OTT for being a bland or boring/corporate brand but that’s what I like about it; it is descriptive while still neutral and doesn’t get in the way of the content on the site allowing the content and its creators to shine.
Thanks for the effort to communicate your direction. I have no fear that this will ever cause a negative outcome and regret others are expressing concerns. Would I be correct to assume that expressed in a venn diagram Beasts of War would be a circle within a larger, hopefully expansive circle called On Table Top? I’m assuming down the line new circles will appear within the On Table Top Domain, some of which will touch or overlay Beast of War others will take me in new gaming areas which I, at present, can’t imagine. Are these fair assumptions? In any case, I feel comfortable that my Beast of War community will remain; a place where with my cup of coffee and my paint brush I will continue to enjoy a pleasant Sunday working on my and enjoying comradry with my Beast of War friends.
Yes a Venn Diagram is how I see it
Any idea what night you guys are doing your meet up? going to UKGE for the first time and would be great to come along if free. So hopefully Friday!
Question…do you intend to make contributors sign an exclusivity agreement? or could their portal on OTT be somewhere they syndicate their updates to? Pros and cons to both.
Nicely explained! I understand what you guys are trying to achieve now! Hard work, but I’m sure it’ll be awesome!
Loving where you are trying to go with On TableTop and looking forward to all the doors this new direction should open for the current team as well as any new channels that join you. On TableTop could be so many things from Mel and his ideas for terrain to a Chanel for model railroads to channels for foam work, game design, 3D printing and more. The logo is exactly what it needs to be clear, clean, and easy to leave in the background so that the actual channel log can stand out, be that BoW or any other channel that joins. How many people can recognize the log of their local shopping mall compared to the logos of the stores at that mall.
@warzan, BoW may always have been about the games and the community for you, but for us BoW is a membership to a clubhouse where we can go and experience the world of gaming in a fun / inviting and personalized way. It’s a destination site that is an experience. I really think it’s possible for OTT to be popular and I really hope OTT will get more people visiting than BoW.
I’d also say that relying on user content is a tried-and-tested path to success, but don’t forget that a lot of people don’t want to show off their stuff! They may like seeing other people’s things, but more than likely they really come to the site to see what you guys do.
So I don’t know about generating revenue. If it looks like Facebook and is game-centric like BoardGameGeek and is globally interactive like Twitter then the question of “what does a membership get me?” comes up again.
Maybe I am seeing it differently
My understanding of what I am hearing is OTT is planned/hoped to be a platform for Beasts of war and other content providers who would like to use it’s functionality. Something like Youtube but with much more functionality and focused on supporting games content providers.
I suspect that some people feel that OTT is replacing Beasts of War but if I understand it correctly this is not the case. I am also guessing that if you were a large corporation, you would hire staff for this “new arm” to your business and the old staff would remain in their BoW shirts and the new people would be wearing the OTT shirts (simplifying I know). But given your size and budget restraints you are going to have to “swap shirts” a bit. I can also see how this may cause confusion and result in people thinking you are changing to this more “corporate” branding.
I guess I might have it completely wrong but I am hearing BoW will continue to create and grow as it always has but it will be a “channel” on the OTT platform where other creators like “Tabletop Minions, Dreadpathzone, hell even Warhammer TV” may want to publish their material either alongside the likes of Youtube and Twitch or even one day “instead of”
If I have this picture correct then more power to you – I think you have identified a need in the market and growing your business and providing much needed services is what I would call “success”
Last comment – I understand people get emotional about things they love like Star Wars and Warhammer etc, and can get very angry when things move in a direction they don’t like, but to the community, please be kind and respectful as some of the comments I heard @warzan read aren’t helpful. Try and frame your comments on what you think is wrong and how you see it may be better. And to BoW if people are getting angry, it’s a sign they love you in the same way people love star wars and so therefore, you must be impacting people’s lives which means you are on the right track !!! 🙂
Keenly watching this space
Cheers
WarHound67
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Some people have a problem with the monochrome logo? weird. For what it’s worth @lloyd I think the new design looks great. It’s modern and retains the character of the full colour shield.
I’ll add my voice to others in saying I am looking forward to the new direction. I’m happy that you are taking BoW OTT. Keep up the good work guys.
On the table is not a new logo its an old friend coming back after a Siesta to entertain us a new I remember around 4/5 years ago on the community channel your half hour show every week on the new games n figure’s that week.
I absolutely think that the new brand is the right way to go. It captures exactly what it needs to. Whether it’s a war game, board game or role-playing game the one thing that they all have in common is that they are played OnTableTop. The logo is excellent. You’ve done a great job coming up with an inclusive concept. The task now is to breath life into it, which is something we can all be a part of.
you know what, i was all for this until i noticed that over the last like 4 weeks theres been like 3 bits of actual wargaming content uploaded and everything else is stockin filler board/card games,i dont know if this is a symptom of the overhaul or that you’ve really forgotten us(wargamers) already in search of that boardgames golden ticket, yes we all have a wide interest in our hobby community but im betting the vast majority of us have wargaming as our primary hobby interest and we chose to come to you for that, im hoping this isn’t going to spiral into one of those all things to all men sites, because there are already well established sites which provide specific hobby content and doit much better than you, yes they don’t have a justin an thats a minus to them but still better in everything bar your wargaming content.
In that period we have put out…
Salute 85 pieces of wargaming coverage (a little outside the 4 weeks)
Song of ice and fire lets play
Star wars Legion lets play
Ww1 article series
God slayer round break down
Blood Red sky’s lets play
Dreadball lets play
Blood and plunder lets play
Ancients article
God slayer lets play
Trench warfare fighting video
Sharp practice lets play
Launch 2.0 website
Start build-up to UKGE (flavour of which is different admittedly)
We have worked very very hard these last week’s especially to ensure representation is pretty even.
I also think John did tank and Star wars painting live streams as well. If I remember correctly 🙂
can i push a button to make the site only show wargaming content? i have mentioned elsewhere that im rather overwhelmed an lost on this site now
Not just yet, we have to finish the deep recategorisation that will be taking place over the next few weeks.
very well, i shall remain open minded on the matter then cheers for chiming in warren
also to clear up “content uploaded” i meant an actual game featuring you guys, which also leads me on to where do i look? am i looking at the bit here? https://imgur.com/tgbX7x3
or this bit? https://imgur.com/voxwx5L
or this section? https://imgur.com/uQtrtUC
or is it this one? https://imgur.com/xyNUaDC
@beastsofwar
Apologies if it’s already been asked. I only have one question:
Will my backstage membership convert to an OTT backstage membership, providing the same access to backstage content across any future non-BOW channels as well?
Cheers.
– I like @warzan btw!
– Hello Justin!
Totally agree, it is NOT an mutually inclusive hobby…. eh, but you do have to be a fan of using your disposable income to get physical things!
– I wonder how many people forgot about BoW being partnered with Wayland games for a bit?
– I’d like BoW to be ‘the people’ and OTT to be the core platform. This way, and I’m being cheeky here. BoW can have the pints and the rowdy events while OTT keeps their tie straight and hair combed. ;p
– I wonder, will BoW become ‘all’ Backstage. By that I mean, OTT could end up enveloping all of the site so that BoW remains only as a ‘Green Room’?
– The OTT Microphone needs a BoW logo on one of the facings! In the same color as to not draw too much attention. [Well, some disagree with the mono-chrome. I still prefer the color logo!]
– The BoW brand definitely evolved a lot! From John gluing battlecannons onto Barbies… we’ve come a long way!
Yup, OTT the platform, BoW the beer swilling orcs, and if DDR is a channel in the future, that can be where the goffick kids hangout.
I know that it seemed effort and time intensive, but is there any place for ReRoll in the new model?
So will OTT be a way for gaming industry companies to supply their own reviews, tutorials and content directly to Beasts of War / OTT (after you have edited / sanctioned it?)
Or is it more for Social media content providers to link themselves with the OTT brand?
I don’t mind the name. I like that fact that the OTT (over the top) and On Table Top is a fun word play. That word play keeps a bit of the cheeky fun side of BoW in a small way. I understand that Beasts of War may not be the phrase or brand for others to link within the way that you describe. I think if the new name was too cool it may overshadow or negatively reflect in some way the content providers that might want to partner with you as part of the new platform.
If Beasts of War decided to focus strictly to provide content to only my main interest (from skirmish level to 40k size miniatures heavy gaming) I think it would actually eventually become boring to me. The variety that is currently provided keeps me interested and entertained. I appreciate that expanding even wider will be good for business / success / longevity and may even be more attractive to me. As a selfish thing to me, I wouldn’t want to get to the point where a weekender was so card game, dice game, board game, role play focused that it actually felt that I wasn’t interested that week. I know that you have this concern on your radar and this is unlikely, but with a change like this that is a fear that creeps in.