Weekender XLBS: How Wargaming Might Be Shaped In The Next Decade
January 5, 2020 by crew
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Happy New Year to one and all.
Can you print the Mandos (or any other miniature) in 15mm? Would they come out defined enough to paint? I am really interested in building a 15mm Sci-fi army to play like Team Yankee.
I imagine that should just be a scaling issue. Might mean you have to mess around in software first, but should be doable…
@warzan that’s really interesting the 3d printing. Those Mando’s look fantastic. Might have to look into seeing if I can convince my family to go in on one as my birthday present for this year (it’s my 40th and my 10th, so might be worth a go…)
Happy Sunday all
first and foremost a happy 2020 for everyone.
very interesting xlbs.
I get more and more interse in the 3D printers but I doubt a bit with safety.
but is it possible to get some information where Warren found the 3D printer (the red one) please then I can see what the costs are and what it takes to get started.
thanks, paul.??
from Amazon, I believe he said in the show it was on offer before christmas
It’s good to have you back. Here’s hoping 2020 is a big year for our hobby.
Ok @warzan challenge accepted. I like the idea of 3D printing but still massively put off that I need to become an MIT engineer, a PHD chemist and a qualified CAD designer before I can get anything from it. If you can get it to “buy this, download this, press these buttons” for impatient monkeys like me then I’ll happily jump in and give it a go!
3d printing is still a hobby in itself.
I have 5 fdm printers and 1 resin printer.
So if u r happy to do less gaming or painting and put that time to printing then go ahead it is a fun hobby.
They are still temperamental and need fixing it hasn’t reached the stage of normal printers which work 99% of the time. So also assign some time and hobby money to replacement parts and watching you tube to discover how to fix your broken bits.
I think that’s the challenge. I’m willing to commit the money and willing to commit SOME time but the time burden is too high for my tastes at present from what I can see. I doubt it’ll be long until the curves meet!
I think that the 3D print tech (setup / maintenance) is something that can be solved as a lot of it can be seen in the high-end machines. Speed (or lack thereof) is always going to be a factor, although that appears to be on its way to be controlled.
The one thing that will make this a hobby of its own forever is that you need to have some 3D visualizing skills (or maybe a AR/VR interface?) if you want to use existing content with minimal problems (never mind creating from scratch).
A lot of this will also depend on how the industry (within our hobby and others) react to the idea of consumer level devices that are the realistic 21st century equivalent of the replicator we see in Star Trek.
(paranoiia mode) it may be the reason why 3D tech still is at the ‘hobby of its own’ level …
Remember : 2d printers and scanners have built in security that prevents you from making exact copies of money!
/paranoiia mode
That’s where I was about six months ago with FDM. I’ve seen earlier adopters as far back as about ten years ago do nothing but wrestle with their machines which put me off. A few months as go, I took the plunge, bought a Troxy put it together myself and started printing.
I’ve messed about with 3d modelling for a while but there are plenty of ready to go models out there if that’s your thing.
I pulled the trigger a few days ago on a resin printer (AnyCubic Photon) and now can’t wait! 3d printers are *almost* plug and play now.
They’re like garlic bread was in the noughties.
Get onboard!
Garlic bread? GARLIC BREAD?? ?
I would also like to have a Dummys guide book about instructions to Resin print as well.
Happy Sunday/New Year!
Now you can 3D print your own minis, will we finally see Sean riding an owlbear for sale in the OTT store? How about a pack of Justin heads, ideal for our own Clone armies?
Regarding the Resin 3D printing, @lloyd‘s point is something I had wondered.
I originally thought that resin was resin. I (and admittedly I could be wrong here) it appears that 3d printed resin is a totally different animal than cold cast or poured resin. The latter is a liquid that cures on it’s own, whereas the former 3D printed resin requires uv light to cure.
@warzan Once cured, how does 3D printed Resin compare in durability to the other types of resin (i.e. Forge world, Modiphius etc.)?
@warzan you and I need to sit down for an hour or two soon and I’ll run you through Google Sketch Up and get you designing your own terrain. It will take a bit more than that but we can start there. That’s an open invitation to anyone btw.
Jager is Brown trust me I went to a Friends place and she filled me up with the stuff.
I got heaps done but broke my keyboard so I’m using the on screen keyboard so ill just link it
https://www.beastsofwar.com/project/1423128/
Why I don’t care about 3D printing? Big part of what I enjoy most about the hobby is the challenge of building and converting, and now using greenstuff to make something unique or a bit different. Browsing the internet and pressing print isn’t what I would consider fun – i’d prefer to paint a picture than take a photo to print off. Maybe one day I’ll be interested but not today.
Good to see a reappearance of the Gerry Can! Warmed my heart on a cold winter’s morning.
Lloyd should have a look at the Rebs from Deadzone and Warpath and the Dreadball teams for other heads and bodies for his Star Wars army… there are some great looking aliens amongst them – and I know Gerry has them if you need a closer look!
I would say click and print is just the first baby steps.
For me I’m definately gonna take up the offer above to learn more about the way to create models.
That should unlock a big creative outlet 🙂
As for you… stay tuned and I’ll chip away at this bit by bit to see if it takes your fancy 🙂
Don’t worry, Warren, I’m always watching.
P.S. I’m not hard – I’m a big cuddly teddy bear, that is why I love Ewoks so much!
Warren could you do videos of 3d resin printing where you show us how to set up the printer, print something then come back to it later on and have John follow it up with a painting guide. 🙂
Well, now you can paint a picture in Zbrush or CAD then print the design you digitally sculpted, be it a unique part or a full unique miniature.
‘Scientists were researching the emergence of space faring civilisations’. Or were they just playing Masters of Orion and got caught by the boss?
The odds are against Betelgeuse going supernova in our lifetime but they’re also against it going in anyone else’s lifetime. It will go at some point. We had a good clear sky last night – rare in Birmingham – and I looked at Orion and wondered if she was ready to blow.
The really fun thing is that if we see the supernova from earth in the next 600 years then it has already blown!
Excellent point. So my saying it’ll blow is actually the sight of the blowing making it to Earth.
Sunday!
@lloyd some dude on ebay sells Star Wars transfers…. and I’ve seen an online shop but can’t remember from the top of my head.
lol that Some Dude gets about all over the internet!
Found it: https://company-b-models-and-miniatures.myshopify.com/collections/sci-fi-decals
hooray!!!
Nice content fellas – I find the 3D printing journey and learns interesting and the homemade superglue accelerant is cunning indeed!
The Star Wars kit bash is inspiring stuff Lloyd- hope to see it progress over the coming weeks ? thanks fellas and happy New Years
Happy New Year CoGs!
Thanks for the return to 2020 and XLBS. My Sunday morning painting is set for another year. I am very intrigued by the 3D printing and might look to get into it once a 28mm version becomes affordable as all my games other than Flames of War are 28mm. Loved the science experimentation, reminds me of days gone by with my chemistry set I got for Christmas. (Which would be banned now for safety reasons). Keep up the good work and Happy New year to all my fellow CoG’s!
Happy Sunday and Happy New Year, looking to future weekenders…
Happy Sunday, thanks very much for the show – I missed them. I’ve been considering getting a new 3D for a while because our last one is not working. I’ve been toying with getting a resin printer, my son is developing his 3D sculpting skills to produce minis for our games. So you’ve sold me on the idea for getting a 3D resin printer.
Great to you guy’s back an as brash as ever.
On the subject of civilisations, pretty sure Ewok societies wouldn’t be visible by the space telescope. Was there an equation applied to take into account other races that maybe went down a tribal route, living in harmony with their environment?
I wonder if by 2030 the fact you can get good quality minis for very little cost will see piracy of IP and minis rise to the point it affects companies abilities to stay in business. Will, what we saw with Blockbuster going under due to the internet and piracy happen to the tabletop gaming industry and /or independent stores?
Remember in the 90s when music was expensive? And some of us were scouring bulletin boards for MP3s because they were a) free and b) quicker to access the music rather than waiting ’til the weekend to go “into town” to buy a cassette tape/7″ single ?
Remember how, at the time, it was only the super-nerds with fancy computers who did such stuff?
Then Napster came along. Then iTunes. And Spotify. And Amazon Music. And so on and so on?
Music piracy has become almost pointless, with so many people using streaming services.
The ability to access just the song you want (or, the genre of music you like) is much easier using a paid-for streaming service than it is to scour the torrent sites, looking for a freebie.
I think this is where tabletop miniatures is heading.
And while there are loads of really nice minis out there on Thingiverse and Yeggi, have you ever tried signing up to support a few creators on Patreon? Wow. There is some real quality out there.
I’m still waiting on my resin printer but I’ve probably spent about £20 (less than the cost of a box of six Space Marines at my local indie store) on patronages and have more minis than I reckon I can print in six months! They’ll still need painting – I reckon that’s enough to keep me busy for years!
Indie creators on Patreon (and other platforms of course) are creating IP that’s every bit as good as GW – the style and size is consistent (some look like they’ve come straight out of the GW world) but are different enough not to infringe on copyright/trademark.
As I don’t play in store (I rarely play games with my minis and am more of a collector/painter) or in “official” tournaments, I’m unlikely to ever need to buy a GW mini again – I’m really, really impressed with the alternatives online.
GW would be wise to get onboard. Maybe even a subscription service – sign up, pick a faction, and get a few new releases every month. After all, that’s how Patreon works – I’m getting between 4-10 miniatures *from every creator* and am currently paying about £20/month in total; I’ll probably stick with my favourite two or three and keep £10-£15/month going. It’s not really that different to signing up to a GW Space Marine Monthy Subscription for a tenner a month or so.
Likewise, it’s also a route to market for smaller, independent manufacturers.
But if you make the delivery method entirely digital (as has happened with music/films) then it’s almost inevitable that, like Blockbuster and HMV etc., stores might close, unless they diversify (that said, paint, brushes, and somewhere to play will always be a physical “thing”).
Looking at the Pack-o-Mando you’ve printed @warzan they come off a little dull. I say this only as you might spruce them up for Easter as a balance in the Force to @sundancer with Santa Fett. Hell, come up with some prints of wookies with rabbit ears/tails armed with baskets and thermonuclear eggs. I threatened the possibility at Giftmas of wookies in horrible sweaters but with resin printer quality the actual texture of sweater cabling might turn out. This might be a great community effort project. *wink wink nudge nudge*
@sundancer considering how well all our timing runs this might well turn into a Christmas in July for you, lol. Maybe we could do it for our Australian viewers instead as its all ass backwards on the upside down part of the planet. Just take a look at those things they call brumbies, drop bears and chazzwozzers.
Now, @lloyd I think the Warzan Juice was what got him his little ones running around. Going about with my thinking cap…. I dub this concoction as follows… Warzan’s Homebrew Glue Spew (not to be confused with what Internet searches might give you) or perhaps Booster Juice. There are some pretty fancy named products out there already so I’m hard pressed to consider what to use. With other mentions of being on the far end of the globe, like being in the furthest corner from the bright center of the universe, could the nickname be a bottle of “Northern Irish Setter” (made pupular by confused dog breeders) work? Better yet keep the original idea of the Homebrew Glue Spew with the optional substitute of isopropyl alcohol with poitín as homage to N. Ireland and a means of making alcohol sales on the sly (we remember the gift beer for every purchase made mentioned in a previous episode).
Happy New Year Everyone. Can I say such an Awesome and fantastic Weekender this week and a good one to set 2020 off. Loving the 3D printing talk and what you have printed @warzan . LLoyd your Star wars legion conversions are awesome as well mate. More weekenders like this pretty please with sugar on top 🙂
Catching up on the rest of the episode (yesterday I nipped out to watch some film – Space Wars I think it was called). The two siege towers side by side show how far the tech has come.
I’ve not bought a 3d printer, have bought a few models. These range from nice looking objects from Shapeways to the odd terrain piece or objective marker from 3d printers on eBay. The latter, without exception, I’ve looked at and decided I can’t be arsed cleaning up that stepping (and just binned them – I can’t unsee it). Seeing that siege tower tells me it is worth my while looking into this at this at home. Thanks lads!
I’m following the progress of 3D printing with interest. It still isn’t simple enough to actually become something I will do as part of my own hobby (however convenient it may become, right now it still isn’t as convenient as popping into my local store and picking up a box of models, or clicking on a button in the OTT webstore), but it is nevertheless still interesting to see how it is evolving.
Will it become the future? For me the jury’s still out. We have two paradigms to compare it with. Firstly, as has been already mentioned – the music industry which has seen records replaced with Spotify (other streaming services are available), and secondly: Books and magazines (Amazon Kindle did not oversee the death of print media, although it has through competition forced much change in the industry. Book stores and books still exist though and are doing quite nicely thankyou, and that is despite virtually every home having a device – perhaps even just a cheap printer or mobile phone, on which to consume/produce literary output.
Right now I feel that the second analogue is the more likely one – a gaming miniature is a physical tangible object like a book, rather than an intangible one like a piece of music. But neither analogy fits perfectly – a plastic model printed on a 3D printer is to all practical intents and purposes identical to one produced the traditional way. So, I am interested to watch the situation evolve. And I think that right now, the 3D printer hobby is almost worth engaging with simply to produce terrain items. Almost… but not quite!
@warzan call your activator Fluffer, tagline: gets you hard, quick!
Well we’ve just had some updates on the Fabled Realms Kickstarter that 4Ground are not going to be shipping with the 3D prints (instead going with drop cast resin), so we’re not there yet for 3D prints becoming the norm. It looks like the resin costs and simply the time taken (even running 7 machines) have proved to be not viable (although they do intend to offer the3D prints as a “collectors” edition at a higher price for painters et al). For production minis using 3D printing we’re probably needing bigger print areas, the ability for the printer to print across the entire bed with no distortion (something 4Ground have had to struggle with), and the costs of the resins to go down (I don’t know what resin 4Ground were using but it was a custom mix).
At the moment spin cast resin seems to be the new “fad” (although it’s been around for ages for terrain), to mitigate the high cost of the metal alloys used in normal miniatures (over the last decade they have multiplied in price many, many times). So I don’t see any manufacturers going over to 3D prints for at least another 5 years or so.
For home use, the new UV printers produce a very good print, however I’ve been told there a LOT more upkeep in keeping the printer going (and the clean up is a nightmare). I also noted Warren wasn’t using the power costs in his calculations for cost per mini (running a printer 24/7 can soon add up). It’s an exciting field, and I’d say with the new low cost UV printers were up to making terrain and perhaps vehicles at home, but the mini’s themselves are probably another 5 years off for the technology to mature enough for them to be indistinguishable from normal metals (although they are probably putting out minis with better detail than HIPS atm)
in the year 2525 will miniature wargaming still be alive
@warzan – I can get your a few disc of filter paper over, if no-one has sent you anything yet.
@lloyd was just looking for something else and came across these squid heads. https://www.ainstycastings.co.uk/product/armed-technician-alien-heads/
Class @somegeezer – squid heads FTW! 🙂
The change in [serious & concerned] Lloyd’s face at 15 minutes in shows how great the relationship you brothers have! Wish I had such a good one with my brother! Cheers guys.
Caveat on the resin printing…. watch out for those fumes! Specially in cold weather, the fumes are terrible!@ The opaque resins are LD50, that’s Cyanide levels of lethal, of course that’s ingestion but the fumes can make you very ill.
The transparent resin is even worse! Just make sure you have ventilation.