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R.I.O.T.S.
October 6, 2013 by warzan
So that's been an interesting couple of days. See why here: Important Announcement (GW Coverage)
First off a huge thank you to the community for your continued support. We're still trying to get through all the messages!
I would like to take a moment to remind everyone of R.I.O.T.S. or as we all may know it as:
Remember It's Only (Insert your choice of Expletive Here) Toy Soldiers!
There has been (to be fair, yet again) a huge outpouring of negative GW sentiment, and while that is not unexpected, it was obviously not the intention of our statement, no we will happily (and selfishly) admit we're are more concerned about the ongoing sustainability of our community.
Undoubtedly, there is a lot of pain out there these days. We have the leading company, who choose not to have a dialogue with its fans, and seem to think that the only way they can communicate with us is through imperium speak! (Never breaking the 40K illusion)
The reality is we are in (and hopefully coming out of) a time of austerity, and well, many of us are not children, and maybe find it a little patronising, when a company we care about, does little to demonstrate it's understanding of the times we are living in.
It looks out of touch, and it hurts.
It hurts because our hobbies are like lovers and family to us (yes perhaps even a drug), it's heart wrenching to walk away from, it's not as simple as if you can't afford it then that's your problem.
It hurts just like when we were teenagers, and fell in love with the most beautiful girl in our year, every day she was beautiful, perfect even, but she still didn't talk to us, or perhaps even notice us.
Feelings are feelings, and If you invest a lot of your self into something, deep down it does hurt if you suddenly feel the love is only in one direction.
But R.I.O.T.S
Games Workshop do care, they care hugely, and I know this because I know plenty of present and past employees of the company, and they are some of the finest individuals I have ever met.
Games Workshop like all of us are also living in these times of austerity, and they have the unenviable task of supporting thousands of families, by meeting the payroll, and ensuring they have built the sustainability of their community.
We may agree or disagree with how they are going about it, and I think it's fair to say I do disagree with a lot of their approach to building that sustainability, but I don't disagree with their ultimate goal, which is to be doing what they do, forever.
Live and let love
We have grown from 'the hobby' to today a thriving industry of many hobbies, and each and every one of them have a right to be here.
YOU ARE ALLOWED TO LOVE YOUR HOBBY, NOT MATTER WHAT IT IS!
I love Space Marines, Imperial Guard and Tyranids, I absolutely f****ing love them! There I said it, and guess what, I am allowed to love them. I also happen to love loads of other stuff in the industry and particularly Flames of War - Now I'm one of the best players in europe! 😉 (OK Im 12 from the bottom, but 'best' is a big wide term to me!)
If you love your hobby, just get on with loving it, and if you want to help your hobby, then when the opportunity arises (and without being an arse) show it off to people.
It doesn't matter which part of the industry you get your kicks from, because that is your choice, and if you enjoy it... then it's the right choice, if not... you are still spoilt for choice.
Our decision is based on integrity
I wasn't joking when I said the easy thing would be to walk away, and perhaps if I we're more of a 'brains' instead of a 'heart' guy we would have done just that.
But I am a 'heart' guy, and it's simple, if we're going to participate in this industry, then it has to include Games Workshop, otherwise what we are doing would be a false representation of our industry.
I understand that many of you haven't and wouldn't miss the coverage, but this is a much bigger industry than we often realise, and we'll I'll let Spock finish this for me...
So Remember It's Only Toy Soldiers, today is day 2 of quite an uncertain future for us here at Beasts of War, but we all realise and understand, that as hard as this is, we have to try and remember that a little job reporting on little plastic men, is infantesimaly small when compared to the importance of our friends and family and each other. (But yeah, we’re still gonna fight for this community!!)
Go have some fun today!
Supported by (Turn Off)
Supported by (Turn Off)
Supported by (Turn Off)
FOR TEH EMPRA! 😀
Huzzah!!
And to put it in perspective, no matter who we are buying our plastic minis from, they are all plastic, which is made from oil… Which has been bought (at considerable cost) from the oil companies, so in effect, buy anything with its base material being oil and you are supporting companies that trample over entire nations and destroy the planet itself. GW ain’t all that bad in the grand scheme of things.
Stalin killed 20 million jews. That makes Adolf a good guy in the grand scheme of things.
The weasel words people use to delude themselves their petty desires can be fulfilled without having to face up to their responsibilities.
So do you live in a tree? Do you make your own clothes and grow your own food? If not, you are as guilty as me for supporting a big evil company somewhere down the line.
Good point, even the electricity we are using right now to post on this very site is filling the coffers of a shareholder somewhere, but that’s acceptable 😛
Better living in a tree than with my head up my arse like some.
I never said I was a saint. But at least it is possible to try and mitigate the damage done.
You are probably a lot younger than me so it is your future you are screwing with.
Negative karma was never more apropos sweetheart.
Rather my head up my ass than live in a deluded little left wing, liberal dream world.
Now boys. Fight nice :-).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xWwUJH70ubM
xxxx
alright. That actually got me to laugh. Touche.
I always play nice cpauls1
When GW attacked Beasts of War
It’s members all said, “But what for?!”
Except for a few
Loyal fanboys so true.
Citadel’s grief is what they adore
I haven’t said much on here. Rather, I directed my angst where it belongs, and left a big burning bag of rhetorical dogsh*t on GW’s front porch.
Loyal fanboy to GW, yes, I am, I wont regret a hobby I love and I’ve yet to experience any grief from the company. Yet at the same time im still happy to support BOW as a backstager despite the grief i get on here for trying to defend my hobby. So I’m a BOW fanboy as well.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ObDE74XD0OQ
Cheers! ..and green armyme RULE!
)) Seriously, an edit button would be worth paying extra for each month. ((
Wa dont needd kno eddit buttin 😛
Well said @warzan
Looking forward to what you guys bring us in the future and will be there with you all the way.
Cheers matey.
Thank F*&$ you’ve said this Warren. I’ve just been having this exact (and I mean exactly) discussion on another forum over what’s going on here.
The feeling is that there is so much ‘hate’ going around that closed attitudes must be employed to see it off.
It is genuinely sad to have that as the case but the single most important thing to remember is what we are actually doing. This is my fun and I am glad I don’t work in the industry. I want to keep it very separate from real worries and do not have the time or motivation get involved in this type of stuff at all.
Thank you for reminding us of it.
But… you just got involved.
Nicely put, and may I say “were there is a will there is a way”.
You guys managed to start Beast of War from scratch and build it into what it is today (so this is good news that you guys can do whatever you set your minds to). You can count on my continuing support you guys wherever the future may take you.
Best of Luck
I really respect you guys for taking the more difficult path. I’ll admit, I still love GW’s stuff too. Well, not the actual games themselves (Specialist Games aside), but the background.
Come to think of it, I really like the games Fantasy Flight puts out using the Warhammer Fantasy/40K universes. So I do like Games Workshop games…that they don’t make.
Good luck guys whatever you decide to do. You have shown me such great alternatives to GW and that I am really thankful for. It was the ‘other games’ aspect of your site that drew me here and your enthusiasm and charisma in reporting on every little twist and turn in the hobby that had me stay. I do hope the new format allows you to bring back Darryl. The only guy I know that can get excited over some bases! Just keep him away from anything none GW please? I also home all the other games will see the future of supporting you as bright and promote their own dreams via your site so we can pick our own poisons.
As you say only toy soldiers but if they are just that why do we invest such time money and dare I say love in such things . They clearly mean more to us than such a statement implies.
I want Darryl back too!
And this, in a single post, is why I’m falling in love with BoW.
Perfectly written and I agree with you 100%. Keeping the door open to GW even if they choose not to walk through shows class and itelligence. Cutting thm off would cut off a major piece of the industry.
Amen, @warzan…
I’ll keep playing Blood Bowl as it is the game that brought me into the hobby (although GW may have lost control of it to the profit of the community).
I’ll also keep playing 40k as I hugely love my orks and the opportunities for conversion they offer.
I wish you the best of luck with your Beasts of War project and I want you to know that this site is a big part of the hobby for me. I listen to the videos while working on my stuff and I post updates of my progress in the forums. As I don’t have many friends who share this hobby with me, I also get to exchange with fellow hobbyists right here!
All good and well, I understand what you say, question is when the companies tactics and not their products disrupt your enjoyment of the hobby that is even unrelated to them, what should one feel? neutral?
At least from my part i see you clearly love this hobby and you are doing this because you really care about it, so i totally respect and support that.
But i can’t agree with the R.I.O.T.S nor the austerity postures :
1 R.I.O.T.S : No, is not Only a Thing, many people puts their entire life, many hours, passion and love to everything we do and you know it ( because you do it! 🙂 ). So is the same to say to a ballet dancer that is only dancing, (s)he will kill you with a knife and rightfully so. Wargames is not my reason to live, i have many passions and hobbies but not one that i’m completely focus in right now, but i respect the passions of others because finding your reason to live is the most important thing.
Many go with a simple one or a epic one, but is not a good thing to say “is just a thing”, i know you did it in order to say “Calm down guys, is not the end of the world, chill out” and i agree that i won’t hate people for buying from GW, but they have to accept their actions have consequences that will affect everyone else.
For example, if GW attacks KS and ended up shutting it down, yes that will be the end of something very beautiful and there will be hate for those that blindly keep supporting GW. Believe me when i said i know about consequences and same goes with everything we do, we are not innocent even as we buy a toy ( as grim as it sounds ). Do you remember the “You are not allow to say Space Marine” thing ? Yeah…
2 Austerity : Really ? With all the money that is pouring in KS ? 1M in less than a day for Reaper and many other examples. Let me tell you about austerity, i live in Argentina and we have scheduled crisis every 5 – 10 years ( yes, this is a cyclic country ), prices go up every single day, we can’t buy dollars legally and the government search you to see what you do every time you buy something.
Many companies have closed here and people leave it in order to find a better life somewhere else. But still many people keep fighting here and succeed in it, one example is two card games , one of which is being played a lot right now and its replacing Magic, called Inferno. This guys knew they need to find a good price, decent quality and a different way of doing things and they did it! Same goes with everything.
And is not about GW price, i will happily pay it if i received a decent treatment from them and they where community friendly. Kingdom Death: Monster wasn’t a cheap thing for me but i happily paid it because the miniatures are amazing, the love is clearly there ( both for the product and the backers ) and they won’t act as aggressive as GW does when something is affecting them.
Maybe there is something that i don’t know and you do that will nullify everything i said , but i feel like there is no good way to defend this way of acting from GW. I do love 40k and i can’t wait for playing Eternal Crusade, but i won’t buy the miniatures or books because i know i will be supporting a way of acting that will affect other companies that are doing good things. If Mantic some day began to sue companies for doing alternative Dreadball teams ( unless this companies are doing clones or something very shady ) or something similar i won’t support Mantic anymore and i will probably go for alternative miniatures, but i know they don’t have that way of thinking since they supported other companies like Avatars of War and such.
I’m sure GW loves their product and IP, it’s show in everything their release, but they want to control every single part of the community ( as you said, it has to be GW sanctioned or is heresy! ).
In any case i’ll stop my rant since there is no more to said and you want to keep things calm, i think is more valuable to open the eyes of people about it.
Cheers and keep on fighting :).
By the way i will keep you supporting you even if you keep showcasing GW stuff or not, at least until something very bad happen ( yeah, i’m kinda Orwellian and i don’t want to change it 😛 ).
Well here’s hoping that BOW and GW can come to a mutually beneficial agreement about the coverage of GW products and services.
Just remember that all parties must be willing to talk to have a discussion. Keep extending the olive branch and hopefully GW will reach out and take it.
Well if we are going Ghandi style we a long road to walk but i would love to see that happen since i want to buy their stuff too without having remorse about it.
Personally I am ambivalent about GW’s games and I dislike the company, but I acknowledge that there are people out there who do enjoy their products and it must be disappointing for them to come here and find no real coverage for their particular part of the hobby. But I think this action sends GW the wrong message because it shows them that people still care enough about their games to bend over backwards in order to report on them. Perhaps I am too quick to cast them in the role of evil corporate overlord but since their lawyer team are going to continue to make legal demands of people like BoW regardless it does not seem so far fetched to believe that GW will attempt to harm it’s competition through control of those media outlets.
But what’s done is done. I will pick up an annual backstage subscription tomorrow and in a years time if I feel like the quality or quantity of the non-GW coverage has suffered as a result of this move then I am sure there will be enough new subscribers to pick up my slack.
In fact if we are using relationship analogies, GW is like the bossy girlfriend you love and you can get on with okay as long as you always do things the way she wants them done.
Oh, and she doesn’t like your other friends very much so she would prefer it if you stopped seeing them! 😀
And you have to pay for everything… yeah to summarize it perfectly.
to -> that -.-. BoW, can you please add a edit button with history or something for the brutes like myself ? Thanks.
Damn and I thought you were calling for a Riot.
oh well maybe future owners of GW will have a different attitude. Just think they could be reading this. They may be only 12 years old now but they are out there, somewhere.
“Games Workshop do care, they care hugely, and I know this because I know plenty of present and past employees of the company, and they are some of the finest individuals I have ever met.”
As was said on the other discussion their is a separation of staff from the corporate entity.
Those in charge of the latter clearly don’t give a squirrel’s poop about the game of and for itself. They clearly do not care for the people than invest a fortune in both cash and emotion into the hobby.
Doesn’t matter which air freshener you use the stink of selfishness, greed and arrogance assails the nostrils
You may make any number of excuses for them, but for crying out loud, GW will come back making more demands and show even less respect.
If you tolerate this…
Yeah, pretty much this….
Agreed. They won’t get my money anymore. Wouldn’t surprise me if the corporate gurus opened up a clothing factory in Bangladesh to make up the shortfall.
For all the anti-evil company type people, you all buy plastic miniatures, which are made from oil… Which is owned by the big evil oil companies. So by buying anything made from plastic you are supporting companies like shell and bp, who are all known for basically trampling over everyone. Don’t want to support big evil companies? Don’t buy ANYTHING containing oil at its source. Good luck.
http://act.greenpeace.org.uk/ea-action/action?ea.client.id=18&ea.campaign.id=23002&ea.tracking.id=rus01&utm_source=GPIArctic30
Well said. This is why I love you guys. It has to be about the entire hobby, not just certain aspects of it or the stuff that a few people really love and play. Your approach shows an integrity and class that I would expect from the professionals I believe you are showing yourselves to be. Keep up the great work! You’ve opened my eyes to a hobby much broader and more varied than I could ever have imagined, and I’m forever thankful for it.
40K got me started me in this hobby when I was a kid (many, many moons ago) and I will always love it for that. I still read all the fluff and watch the odd game (I even brought the film… Oh well). Sadly I no longer play it as I don’t really get on with the new rules… if I did I dare say I’d be more sympathetic to GW as a company.
Having said that I also run my own businesses so can vaguely understand where they are coming from on occasion. I wish they’d go about certain things differently but for them it certainly isn’t Only Toy Soldiers.
Keep up the great work guys. As the number of responses show you have a great deal of support,
I said what I meant in the announcement video comments, but it will not change my visits to BOW if you still cover GW. I will watch, because you guys are pasionate about what you are doing, and it shows day to day. Thats what I’m here to see.
I almost joined backstage in response to the video, but will not do so for the same reason I haven’t in the past. I couldn’t care less about GW games and figures. I’ve never owned any, never been tempted to play any, and cannot give my money to support their coverage. People point to their pioneering of our hobby, but for every positive in their past there are many negatives in their present.
Gamers need to bolster other systems before GWs parasitic hold on this hobby causes the closure of more FLGS’s.
I kinda agree with what you said and your reasons, but i supported BoW now because i feel this is one of the few places that people have for knowing other stuff rather than GW and the fact they showcase GW stuff will bring some of those people to here.
I would love to see BoW leaving completely the GW stuff aside ( or show only FF, Forge World and alternative miniatures stuff ).
I think you guys are doing a great job. You will not walk alone.
Loves from Moscow.
What a fantastic attitude, great post, glad you are sticking with it all even though it may be an uncertain path for you guys. I really do hope the contacts you no doubt have built up will be able to leverage a way forward that excites you in how you can pursue maintaining the community here and serving it in the ways you do.
good luck warren and co. as soon as i have the money spare i will buy BOW a muffin and coffee every month 🙂
This made me think about my motivation for b ashing GW, It isn’t so much I care about the company but this site I come on daily for my war gaming news and shiny minis introduction.
I can see why you want to avoid alienating the community however you play a dangerous game with being frank as your reporting is and how GW will respond to that. If the legal stuff starts again how long will you be able to sustain the site before being bankrupt you are forced to end. Worse case scenario I know but in reality who benefits then? The community you strive to protect vanishes and BOW as we know it does also.
I hope this doesn’t happen but GW would keep legal pressure on to eradicate you as threat to there brand unless you I hate to say it compromised your integrity.
It’s only toy soldiers… that can cost people their jobs and livelihoods and/or get them dragged off to court. The company just isn’t cool and seeing the people that we, as consumers and hobby fans trust and rely on, who are our friends, treated poorly isn’t ever going to garner them any fans or get people to just shrug and say “Well, it’s only toy soldiers.” We only have 2 voices in this matter, after all: our wallets and useless bitching on the internet.
Hey, I don’t fault anyone for liking their stuff. Personally, I think their product has been sub par for years. The only things that even get me to consider GW product is upgrade parts from third parties. But then I’d know I’d be playing it just because other people are playing it (who are also playing it just because other people are playing it rather than for finding it to be the greatest product). Omnipresent != quality. Don’t get me wrong, though, I enjoy a burger from McDonalds on occasion, myself. I won’t pay the same price as prime rib, though, and will scoff at the idea that it’s of superior quality. Heck, Vanilla Ice was a chart topping artist with well over 10 million sales and I don’t think many people would accuse him of musical genius.
I wouldn’t miss GW coverage. A GW theme week is a week I usually skip. Props to BoW for making the harder choices, though. You have to give them credit for pursuing what they want to pursue and I certainly support *them.* Keep on, BoW. You guys rock.
It would be very nice if the people in charge of Games Workshop plc, realized it only toy soldiers.
All the studio staff I have had the pleasure of meeting were ALL top blokes with lots of passion and dedication for the table top war game hobby.
However, they are NOT in charge of GW plc are they.
Yes on all. You go guys!
Man GW just keeps stomping on anyone who mentions anything they make.
dammit, it’s time to make some comments especially seeing your latest video. OKAY, first of all, games workshop is a COMPANY, so it consist multiple people inside it and each of this people are grouped onto different division.. let’s just say it’s divide by two (as mostly we know) the creative division and the management division (together with their law division). Now who’s to blame on those IP infringement bullsh*t? the management obviously…
the creative division are the people who wish to expand their business according to their ideals and care little about how the money flows (in or out) most at the time, we can see this is the division who are actually the nicest people you ever know and their pursuit of their ideals which make our earth and humanity the happiest being. I can give two well known people, Steve jobs (God bless him) and Stan lee.
Now onto the management (and law) division, this is the division who controls how money flow, how to dictate the flow of money (usually it must be surplus), and frankly they must get money by any means (I dont know who teach them like this). The management who should have been primary duty is to serve as manager on how to manage according to the creative division needs, but it seems time is changing makes the management division primary duty into dictating how to get more money and dictate how the creative division limiting their ideals and maximizing profit (by any means necessary) and minimize the production cost (even better FREE production cost). The prime example of this assholes (im not going to censored this one) is merrill lynch stockage company (yea you f**k, you destroy a lot of people’s life and still get away with our money eh), stan lee business partners in stan lee studios (they scam a lot of money in the name of stan), apple management division (you fired people, and you hired them again, once a bit useless, fired them again, bit useful hired again and so on), of course the management division of GW..
GW! (management one), we already helping yer a helping hand by giving FREE promotion to your customer! we also give FREE silent marketing using mouth to mouth (not literally) so new player can buy your stuff! we also give FREE demo using our time instead of yours! So stop suing us because of small shitty word according to your own damn written law, because we already give the best thing that is scarce in this life, the FREE things!
Well said and necessary.
Have FUN one and all.
As an interesting coincidence, just yesterday I declined to renew membership in another gaming service…
…because it felt to me the only thing they were running was 40K battle reports. I just have little to no interest in that (or most other batreps either, they just bore me to tears).
I got a BoW backstage pass because I feel you have very interesting, honest and well-done but most importantly VARIED coverage.
The ‘VARIED’ bit is not going to change.
This is not about having loads of GW content, this is about being told we can’t…
That doesn’t sit well with me
Warren, can I ask…..
If you continue to cover GW content moving forward and GW continue to send you legal ‘cease and desist’ letters, will the money you need to spend on legal advice and official legal responses come from funds raised via BACKSTAGE subscriptions?
Backstage goes towards paying the bills. Once those are paid there is nothing left. So no, backstage is not a legal fun, backstage just keep the lights burning.
Warren, you are a truly wonderful guy, and posts like this show it. You are a human being 24/7. Much like Matt, from MWG. And that’s why we love you and that’s the reason we support BoW.
That being said, I am a journalist, and there’s absolutely nothing wrong, in theory or practice, in having an editorial line. To the contrary, it is to be enforced and expected in a saturated media environment like ours.
The only requirement is honesty. Tell me what you stand for, what your preferences are, and I, the receiver, will decide if your editorial line suits my needs and mindset, or not.
John Steward is a Jewish, left-wing, FOX-despising communicator. He doesn’t hide his ideals, he is honest, and it’s the audience’s choice to follow him or not.
Removing GW content from BoW wouldn’t represent a treason to objective journalism, integrity or any other deontological principle.
You have decided to keep reporting about them. And I don’t agree with you.
But I’m fine with it.
Because you are awesome.
You respond to GW’s Imperium speak with Tau’s Greater Good (my first and only 40K army, before I sold it).
Even when (I think) you are wrong, your reasons are always thoughtful, ethical and moved by love.
And that’s what ultimately matters most to me.
Wow, you´re too nice, Warren, too nice… I think you people are great and I´ll continue supporting you. I hope the rest of the community to do the same so you can continue doing a great job like now. Yeah, there´s a lot of hate, but I think it´s normal. I am personally very dissapointed, but the reaction of Bow is, like we say in our country, “para quitarse el sombrero” (“to take off the hat”). Now I don´t hate Gw so much… not so much…;)
Warren, I agree BUT from a personal point of view (I know this is echoed in here and all over), I’m selling a lot of my GW stuff (not my sentimental bits) because of this turn of events. Enough is enough; the camel’s back just broke.
Time to give more back to rest of the community (which for me also includes LEGO!) because I’d rather believe that the business I’m giving my very limited and hard-earned cash to has everyone’s best interest to heart. Warlord, Mantic and the other wealth of friendly companies out there deserve it more and are much, much better value for money.
You’re right, it hurts, but these things go in cycles. I’ll still be interested in the IP and might still scratch build 40k models, but I won’t spend a penny on GW unless everything I need is contained in one box and I can afford it – unlikely!!! Maybe I’ll come back to GW in 10 years, maybe not.
Keep up the good work all of you; BoW is great, it would be a great shame for you to shut up shop.
Whilst the sentiment of RIOTS is admirable it becomes something a lot more serious when legal letters drop on the mat, costing time, money and ultimately a working partnership with another business.
To say GW is only defending their business is also an act of charity that the corporate body is undeserving of. Whilst the vast majority of employees are good hard-working people that does not excuse the actions of the company, both in relation to you BoW folks or the loyal customerbase that has to suffer crappy price increases and crappy products.
GW in its current form is not what gaming is about. You’ve only to look at the apparent acrimonious parting of Rick Priestley, citing an artistically stifling environment as part of the reason for his departure, to understand it’s not about the game or the minis but about the cash. It’s also evident from this year’s games day that the heart has gone from GW. Personally, if I’d have gone and discovered no participation id have made 2 call, the first demanding my money back; and the second to trading standards reporting an act of gross misadvertising!
“…see you roll these dice and move these plastic/metal figures around the table. Yes it’s similar to what we used to play as a child in the garden with 1/72 plastic figures and spud guns”
It’s a game and while I appreciate that people can get very passionate about the hobby and the time and money they have spent…..it’s still a game.
If your not happy with the way that one company sells it’s products, don’t buy them and shop somewhere else. If you don’t like a set of rules, play something else, no-one is forced to play/buy anything.
I’m looking forward to the forth coming coverage from BOW which includes the 40k coverage. Looking forward to bumping in to the guys when they move to Nottingham…the sky is blue and the grass is green.
“If your not happy with the way that one company sells it’s products, don’t buy them and shop somewhere else. If you don’t like a set of rules, play something else, no-one is forced to play/buy anything.”
Wow what is it 3, 4 days in?
The first time I have seen this comment on either thread, so we did quite well. Is a world record
May be an indication that fewer people are tolerating the GW Lebensraum School of Business Studies.
…and you need to interview Andy Chambers 🙂
Someone mentioned earlier, you either protest with a rant or with your pocket.
My son plays/enjoys playing 40k which is great, my old toys are not being wasted….but anything he wants comes from ebay.
Sorry Radich don’t mean to have a go at you.
We hear the same thing about not buying/playing.all the time.
As when the bladder is full, one goes pee pee, so when one get’s pee’d off, one doesn’t buy.
It is an act of nature.
There is no point saying don’t like don’t play. Anyone daft enough to complain and carry on isn’t going to listen and anyone that has had enough of GW’s antics will have figured it out for themselves anyway.
Haven’t bought any GW since they pulled the stunt that screwed over the overseas markets beyond the EU. That was the final straw for me. I didn’t need to be told then, and I don’t need to be told now.
What others do is up to them.
If you continue to cover GW’s content moving forward and GW continue to send you legal ‘cease and desist’ letters., will the money you have to spend on legal come from the funds you raise via your supporters and their BACKSTAGE subscriptions?
As posted above… Backstage goes towards paying the bills. Once those are paid there is nothing left. So no, backstage is not a legal fund, backstage just keeps the lights burning.
The above post was added before I replied to your comment to see if I could get an answer better.
Well, if you guys aren’t using subscription money to pay for the legal advice and having to find the funds from your own private pockets then I cant see how its beneficial to carry on ‘fighting the good fight’ as it where. Especially if you guys have loved ones and babba’s and that to look after. I really hope you aren’t ‘borrowing’ the money to pay for this legal advice? Debt just isn’t worth it. Your supporters are obviously concerned for you guys and I am sure non of us would want you to make such sacrifice if its going to effect you so negatively, personally and drastically.
On a lighter note This on Tor Gaming’s Facebook page:
So Gavin, when are you going to issue a legal threat because BoW featured your work?
You must be terrified of having your IP violated. lol
Like · Reply · 1 · 7 hours ago
Tor Gaming Was thinking about issuing one because they AREN’T featuring our work enough!
Unlike · 2 · 6 hours ago
LOL!
Do you remember the days when the media weren’t allowed to broadcast the words of Sinn Fein? They used to have an actor read out their words…
Instead of showing any images of GW products you should have shown a picture of a turd with the caption “for legal reasons we cannot show Games Workshop’s images, until they stop threatening us with legal action we have no choice but to show you this turd instead”
I still play 40K but I’ve stopped buying direct from GW – eBay only from now on, I feel dirty if I give the b*st*rds my money…
I didn’t have the time to utter my remorse about GWs decision… It is sad to see that they seem to be thinking that they do not need the publicity…. but then again, i.m.h.o. GW is a somewhat self-centered company…
But that said, I will support BoW in any way I can… and I hope that these changes don’t lead to an untimely ending of BoW….
True, Warren, R.I.O.T.S…. but it is also our hobby and hugely important in my life, if only to get the tension of a days work out of my system
Sadly many people does not seem to understand the very basic principles of ownership and neither about companies.
1 The owner has the control and makes the decision, There are no “true” choises that are binding. The owner/s decide.
2. Companies are 100% dictorships. It’s no elections and no principles of “on person one vote”. Owners decide and if the owners want a decision strongly it’s on even if 99,99% of the others parties are againts it.
GW stuff is up to GW. I think they are making som bad long time choises but it is their choices not mine.
Please BOW don’t become an intrenet-amateurs-club. Where teenagers with noresponsibility or knowledge want to decide what GW should dp woth their business. Or worse grown ups behaving like teenagers in love feeling sorry about themsleves…
Of course GW can do what they want.
Treating fans like poop on the bottom of their hush puppies, however, is not acceptable.
Ever. Under any circumstance.
There is nothing immature about telling a dictator to stick it up his arse.
The only difference in this case is that doing so isn’t going to prove fatal.
I’m late to the party here, but completely agree with Warren’s post. I love Space Marines and 40k, can’t get enough of it. I don’t agree with how GW are doing things here, but it won’t stop me from playing 40k.
If you bought a car and absolutely loved driving it and the company that made it started doing things you didn’t agree with, would that stop you from enjoying the car? No, it would still be just as fun to drive. That’s how I see 40k.
What happens when you need to replace the car?
And it is 200% more expensive than when you bought the original
And you have to buy an expensive book each year just to drive it
And then one of the books tells you the new parts won’t work, so you will have to buy a complete new engine
Bugger it, I’ll stick with my buss pass lol
That is Buss with one s not two
Cos Buss with 2 esses
spells Lissa
Internet cookie if you spot the musical reference
“What happens when you need to replace the car?
And it is 200% more expensive than when you bought the original
And you have to buy an expensive book each year just to drive it
And then one of the books tells you the new parts won’t work, so you will have to buy a complete new engine”
ha ha, fair point! You could also add that you want an unbiased review on their new car model but the manufacturer tries to block anyone other than themselves from talking about it, thus generating a lot of anger amongst the motoring community, which is a shame because they still make really nice cars 😀
Lol
I knew I was missing something but couldn’t figure out what!
That was it!
I’m glad GW stuff will be coming back to a healthy level of coverage. I do miss it. Whilst I loved FoW and other coverage and have several new games in my collection I have invested a lot of time and gaming love in the 40K universe. Watching ‘New Games’ all the time is a bit draining especially since my time and budget are limiting so more depth on a game me and my friends and kids play is great. Thanks @warzan for getting on top of this and retaining BoWs integrity as independent reporters of the tabletop gaming hobby, providing for as many factions as possible.
BoW must bare in mind though that it is more than just a RIOT. Big bucks and investments of time and money on a corporate and individual level. Heck BoW is needing funds to keep people paid and the lights on. So much more than just a few friends with a fan site ‘playing with toy soldiers’ from your point of view at least.
The out pouring of sentiment this article is aimed at indicates some serious real world problems are occurring in this industry and impartial discussons on BoW offer a great outlet for the gaming community. Furthermore, going forward hopefully an independent BoW will be in a stronger position to not just report on the fluffy gaming stuff but the warty bits of the industry as well. How about a serious article comparing prices for different companies figures? Another good one would be the variation in price/availability in different countries. For example NZ itunes doesn’t stock icodices and its approx. 45 GBP equivalent for a hard copy……these are very real issues that potentially cost gamers money and that community awareness may go some way to fixing. No need for a Great Crusade but a fair comparison vrs other companies is perhaps well overdue and may surprise a few people one way or another.
i
Man, you want real world issues, try homelessness, world poverty and habitat loss just for starters.
But hey I live in a tree so what do I know
Either way GW need to be drop kicked into obscurity until they start playing nice again.
It won’t stop you playing if you want.
I’ve heard the term bantered around a fair bit, but now I think I’m finally getting an idea of what “40K cultists” are.
Lol I think even the great warzan may struggle with world poverty etc. especially on the BoW budget…so some fair and well reasoned critique of the wargaming industry will suffice for now.
Hopefully the charities that take a share of my salary each month have the rest covered if not i’d better stop that shenanigans and buy another new game system and warmonger whilst the world burns…..
Habitat shut down a while ago didn’t it? Didn’t have you down as a sentimental home furnisher @chibi.
What can I say @cpauls1 . I don’t live in the wargaming closet any more. I like what I like and 40k fluffs up my world nicely at the moment as do Xwing, Malifaux and hopefully Dreadzone.
I come back to BoW regularly since the community ‘on the whole’ seem pretty friendly and inclusive as are the BoW crew. The occasional hot headed revolutionary now and again but variety is the spice of life right.
Sadly the closure of Habitat is removing the furnishings and decor of homes for Orangutans atm, to take just one case. I do tend to get sentimental about these things 😉
Another late comer to the party here.
They are only toy soldiers, but GW continues to take the piss with something that people enjoy, especially with their prices. Just look at the supposedly “new releases on pre-order” for the Sisters of Battle, or Adeptus Sororitas as they now want to call them. A set of ten minis, that are not new, are still metal casts (although thankfully not Finecast), and are chosen AT RANDOM, and the have the cheek to expect you to pay around £50 for them! What message does that say to people who liked that army and who thought the new codex will bring new miniatures?
The resounding message to them is ‘F**k you. You like this army? Well here’s the same old minis but at double the price. Good luck in finding it cheaper on ebay before someone else.’
So if you did like that army, your only sensible option is to buy from ebay.
That’s just one more reason in a long list of hateful feelings towards GW who continue to piss off it’s customers.
But it is only toy soldiers. So I’ll buy them from ebay or online stores, as it’s the only way to (hopefully, if everyone did it) send a message to them, that their prices are too high.
I know it’s not just the prices; with GW changing things with each iteration of the rules, people have to buy this or that new thing if they want a competitive army, and it makes what they had redundant, and, potentially, a wasted purchase.
I’m of the mindset that I don’t follow the crowd. I buy what I want, when I want, and if I can afford it. No matter how much GW pulls stunts like the prices with the Sisters of Battle, or shoehorning in the Centurions into the fluff, I will continually say to myself ‘F**k your prices GW, I’ll buy from elsewhere. They’re only toy soldiers, not solid gold precious artefacts. And if you don’t like it, then to hell with you, GW product pricing team, I still have a pile of unbuilt minis to last me for years!’ 😀
I wonder if GW is on twitter? Maybe we could all bombard them with the tweet: “We can’t afford your prices.” Make the complaints we have about GW more public than limiting them to these forums. We keep making our complaints here, and GW might read them, but they can ignore them. Twitter or youtube might help to make them more public.
Something like that should be done, otherwise our complaints will continue to go unheard.
There is not a lot of love for GW out there at the moment, I have been a fan ( and customer ) of GW for about 30 years but I have not always agreed with what they have done, back in the mists of time I remember when GW took the decision to stop selling other company’s stuff in their shops. At the time this was a massive blow to me and made it very hard to get hold of the games i loved ,( D+D Call of Cthulhu etc ) as the internet was still a good ten years away.I drifted away from the hobby for many years but came back to it about ten years ago when my kids got interested in it.
I love BOW but I also love GW ,Warren is right you have to have GW games on here , you may not agree with what they do all the time, yes their stuff is expensive ( E-bay people! ) and they occasional make crap like the Centurions,( but Just look at the sweet new Dark Elves!) and they really pissed me off when they changed the pack size of fantasy Orc’s from 19 to 10 and kept the price the same! However they are only human after all , so cut them some slack.I am sure that the people at the top have the best intentions at hart. They have to manage a manufacturing business in one of the harshest economic climates we have known for many years, and do right by the hundreds of people on there pay roll .I wish them the best of luck , and for the moment they still have my support, One thing though, hurry up and release a new Dwarfs army book will ya!
I’ve got an odd perspective and this will be a long post so bear with me or just skip to next one :-)asionally buy something from them (or more often from eBay).
Over the past year or so there has been an “unacknowledged” policy of removing the Veteran gamer from the GW Hobby Centres (yes that name is now a joke and could be actionable in court as false representation, but I digress).
I hate screwy keyboards – so I’ll start again 😛
I’ve got an odd perspective as far as GW goes. This will be a long post so bear with me, I think there is a point to it or you can just skip to next one (Warren has already heard my tale when I visited TTN on International Tabletop Day while in the area at the BTCC last year so I’m sure he’ll skip 😛 ).
I’ll say it now, I do still like GW games, although not as much as I used to and yes I still play them and very occasionaly will buy something from them, but now through an independant retailer. I also like some of the people who work there that I’ve got to know, but I dislike the Company as whole and it is not the company that I once knew.
Over the past few years or so there has been an unacknowledged policy of removing the Veteran gamer from the GW Hobby Centres (yes I think that name is now a joke and could be actionable in court as false representation, but I digress) as they are not seen as proffitable enough. I am in my mid 30’s and only got back into the hobby about 5 years ago and SHOCK HORROR it was a GW Manager that got me back involved. I moved to a new town and saw a GW, popped in to see if it was the same stuff as I used to play with back in the early 90’s and found it was. The Manager was welcoming and I did start to put my disposable income back into plastic crack, I wasn’t interested in finding out what other companies had to offer, GW was accessible and the local store was a social place too. I even got so involved that I went several to the Campaign Weekends (enough to be known by the events team). I normally started new armies for these weekends and so yes I was spending a bucket of cash on GW and FW stuff.
Fast forward to around this time last year, my local GW had a management change. The previous manager had done a good job of promoting GW in the local area, the store was above target and there was a healthy local gaming community that used the shop regulary (games nights were always packed), so he moved up the ladder to a bigger store. Fair play to him, he’s actually turned into more of a mate now and I wish him well in his retail career. Our local store gained a new manager and it all changed overnight. Two weeks under the new manager and we were told, “no more veteran games night as of tonight”. The reason we were given was that it was to help the new manager run the store better, “you can only come into use the store if you are buying or if you want to book in for a “tactica” or painting tutorial slot with the manager, the store isn’t a drop in centre for people to sit and game or play all day”. Saturday morning open gaming lasted another month or so, as did Saturday events related to new releases and it was during that time I was told that I couldn’t book to have a social game in the store one Saturday morning, as “it was to be kept open for kids as they were more profitable during the run up to Christmas” – I felt like I’d been slapped in the face and this is when my attitude finally changed.
When the old manager had been there myself and others in the store actually used to use the in-store ordering point to order things from the website so that the funds would go into the store till, the store was helping us by providing a place to game and do hobby so we gave back, but things had changed so much under the new manager that several of the Veterans had boycotted the store based on the draconian way these changes were introduced since the outset. The store was not providing us a service anymore so why should be provide it with business.
I looked into how to start a gaming club, contacted the GCN and my eyes were opened, other gaming companies actually helped clubs start up, they sent free copies of their games to clubs so that people could try them (without having to go into a store and have an intro game that bears no relation to the real game when you actually start playing it – as happens with 40K and Fantasy “lite” in GW stores) and these games were clubs to own. GW supported our startup, but puitting a poster in the store and adding us to the website.
We now have a thriving GCN club that has been running since February, yes we still play GW games and only a few weeks ago ran a 40K one day tournament (we allowed proxy models too lol). Some of our members ONLY play 40K still and that is their choice, however in general with most of our members GW games are now in a minority, Dreadball has taken off, X-Wing, Malifaux, KoW, Empire of the Dead, HoMT, FoW, DropZone Commander to name just a few. Heck even Magic and boardgames like Zombicide are getting more attention. I’d say that 90% of our members were like me and ONLY used to play GW games whereas now 95% play something else aswell or in some cases instead of GW.
In closing I’d like to thank GW for forcing me from the local store (it’s not a Hobby Centre anymore 😛 ), they gave me a reason to expand my hobby (and I wish I’d done it before) and I know my sentiments are echoed by other members in our club. I still spend far too much on gaming stuff (I’ll not mention the amount I’ve pledged to new games on KickStarter just in case the other half sees this), but instead of 100% going to GW it is more like 2% (if that).
I’ll continue to support BoW as a backstager whether they run GW content or not (it’s their choice afterall) and like when I used to put my online orders through the store till, I feel that I am getting something back for my loyalty.