The Full Majesty Of Warhammer’s Nagash Leaks!
August 19, 2014 by brennon
Grot Orderly, who seem to have a fair amount of access to White Dwarf Magazines have managed to get some more shots of Warhammer Fantasy's big bad guy from Games Workshop, Nagash, in full and also a little more about his rules...
The two versions of the miniature above show off Nagash and the spirit hosts that swirl around him as he is lifted off the ground. He isn't actually as tall as we thought he was since the ghosts are holding him up but he is still pretty tall when you think about it. The cover also brings up a rather interesting twist that could well be pointing towards the new edition of the game on the tabletop. Could this be Games Workshops chance to actually push on the storyline and kill off a few characters and bring more into the light?
The fact that he is getting himself a new book and that Nagash is a subtitle is something to pay attention to as well. Could The End Times become the 'Sanctus Reach' of Warhammer Fantasy? There certainly seems to be a lot of content stuffed into those pages and it should be revealing things about the storyline as well as scenarios and rules I imagine.
Added to that there is a listing for a new book from Black Library which should be well worth a read for us background lovers. I can't wait to see where Games Workshop go with this and I am still very impressed with the miniature AND the look of the new book.
Bring it on!
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Got to admit can see what some people won’t be keen on but i like it as a model and an idea. That is one sexy model – more than a little stiff…..
Seeing him I hear the word “Repetetiv” crawling though my head.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hFDcoX7s6rE No better way to say it!
http://youtu.be/hFDcoX7s6rE
The End of Times.
Could this be an allegory of Kirby?
Are GW trying to tell us something?
Who will live and who will die?
Well Matt Ward has gone to “a better place”.
See! It is all starting to make sense!
Yep… this advancement in the story feels like the Grand Finale.
To be fair, the Storm of Chaos was also painting as a grand finale when it came out.
*painted
Stay in school, gents.
I like it not sure about the ghosts but would like to see the back to see that tail / spine thing properly but will make a good necromancer for questers?
He is bigger than a knight Titan. At 1000 points I really don’t know what he is good for outside of the canned quests in his book.
Previously, at a glance, I suggested the figure looked like an old Vegas showgirl, but now I’m ready to bracket that further. It looks like an undead ‘Cher’, with fewer tattoo’s but no less annoying. I can see her laying down the smack to the chorus of “I got you, babe.”
The figure is also static, as Cher is lol.
This model may have a lot of bling going on but to mock Cher can not be forgiven!
This is my thoughts on what you posted.
No matter hard how I try
You keep pushing me aside
And I can’t break through
There’s no talkin’ to you
It’s so sad that you’re leavin’
It takes time to believe it
But after all is said and done
You’re gonna be the lonely one,oh
Do you believe in life after Nagash ?
I can feel something inside me say,
I really don’t think you’re strong enough, no
Do you believe in life after Nagash ?
I can feel something inside me say,
I really don’t think you’re strong enough, no
Hmmm… You can enjoy Cher for $50. I doubt the same will apply to Nagash.
Cher puts it out for $50? Has it come to that?
Yes, but it never used to be that way. If only she could turn back time.
It all started with her dealings with her local Council Complaints department. She’s had a lot of problems with gypsies, tramps and thieves.
No need for cash, she only takes plastic money
Eeeewww! I was talking about her show… skin crawling. Must think happy thoughts.
$50 just to show?
What a rip off
I think Cher is older than Nagash is supposed to be.
Ever wonder why you never see Cher and Nagash in the same place at the same time? Just throwin’ it out there.
And they both are full of injected plastic
Take of that mask Nagash, we know it is Cher’s face that lies hidden beneath.
Mind shutters at the thought…
We’re all going to the zoo tomorrow we can stay all da….
oh …
Zoo Closed for End of times
Beautiful
Someone should convert the space wolf sled onto king stiffles here to improve the overall appearance
oops
Honestly he is beautiful in my opinion (though the hat is a bit ott), there is so much getting leaked about this release now like Kislev being destroyed, Vlad being resurrected by Nagash along with all his nine lords of Evil… Hugely excited..
If you can’t fight, wear a big hat as the saying goes, and there are a few in WH land.
Look at the High Elves. Their hats are so tall they bivouac in them at night.
I’m not sure I use the word ‘beautiful’ – perhaps ‘magnificent’? Certainly it’s an extremely impressive sculpt. I’m not a fan of the current aesthetic running through both 40k and WFB, of everything being turned up to 11, but that is very much a subjective thing and there is no doubt that it is creating a firm identity for the brand and away from the historical roots that are based in physical reality.
Now, if only these things would start being priced so that they were within reach of the common man, it might just help to start to turn things around for both WFB and GW.
but … my Kislev Horse archers 😮
Wow, an impressive looking mini…very busy, and very cool. I honestly would be afraid to take it anywhere because of how fragile it looks.
Thats actually pretty cool.
I’m having that 😀
It certainly will make one of the impressive centerpiece models that WFB has become all about. Still, I can’t help but feel he looks a little too much a Transformers villain, and not like the serious villain that made him my favorite character in the Warhammer world.
He looks better tahn the orginal model but doesn’t look like a big Epic Lich Lord Asphyxious?. But anyway I was looking else where isn’t he LE?. I have also seen pics from visions and it has some of his other followers and they look awesome.
Love the model. It really looks evil and epic… not to mention that it is huge.
oooh, that’s rather snazzy looking 🙂
some great details on the all the skeletal armour, and ghosts 🙂
… think it could have looked a bit better with the legs both pointing straight down,
but simple enough to convert anyway 🙂
… he’s definitely grown about 300% since his old metal incarnation 😛 ha ha
Love him. Would also love some new zombie sculpts. Then maybe I will get back to my fantasy VC army.
There are loads(!) of other fantasy zombies on the market, high quality and often much cheaper than the older, big-head GW ones. You could try Mantic or Wargames Factory to name just a couple.
I.e. no good if you play in GW tournaments…
Oh right! Well, I’ve used non GW stuff in Warhammer World before so don’t think they care that much. 🙂
Also, are there any GW tournaments any more these days? I know local scene to me has entirely moved to other stores and clubs as the local GW has become a one-man band with a couple of tiny tables, used just for the demo games. Veteran play nights till 10pm seem like a lifetime ago now..
I own some of the Mantic ones, and their ghouls. They’re fabulous.
It might just be me, but that model is so hideous that I’d rather use the old Nagash. And that’s saying something…
Hideous? Would have to disagree.
The aesthetic is not my thing, but I can understand why people like it.
Not great, but not hideous. Just too much bling for my tastes. First I would get rid of the mechano monkey bars. That could only help. And then try and do something with the pose.
There is a reason for the xylophones (osiophones?)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vGI-hYVslPU
Each to his own, of course…
To me, that model just fails on all fronts.
Firstly, it’s a rather bad 3D sculpt. This is especially evident in the spirits holding him up.
Secondly, the design is absolutely hideous. That’s what does it for me mostly. What’s with the spines growing out of his spine? What’s with the jagged edges on his armour? Why does he have skeletons embedded in the armour? It just doesn’t work for me at all.
Thirdly, there’s the hat. Oh man… That’s just… Way over the top. In a bad kind of way.
Fourth, as a personal pet peeve of mine, why does everyone have to have some kind of a loincloth? Or rather, a loin-collection-of-bones, as it is in this case.
To me, it looks like much of the other stuff they’ve release lately (with the Space Wolf flyer being particularly bad). It’s a s though they have all these small bits and pieces of ideas and then just stick them all together in a computer. It’s not the individual components in and of themselves that’s the issue, but rather it’s the whole package that just doesn’t work.
It’s not hideous, but it does look like an action figure toy. It’s like GW have picked up the license for some obscure 80s cartoon show.
You’ve hit the nail on the head there Redben
This model is so very METAL! Paint it blacker than the blackest black times infinity!
While this is pretty over the top to the point of being a bit silly, he’s no where near as silly as the original sculpt.
I mean, remember the smiling clown face? And the goofy pope hat has got nothing on the Christmas tree he used to wear.
Genuinely impressed by some of the new releases, technically at least (even though a lot of it is still very much toy-like).
I had misgivings when I first saw those leaked blurred pics but colour me impressed now.
can it really be £65 though? If it had been priced more like a treeman (£37), i would have snapped it up, but this price (if true) seems excessive, even for GW!
It comes with tickets to Cher’s show :-).
I wish I could hug you @cpauls1 you always make me laugh!
I read somewhere that you need to get the rules for it also, that pushes it up to around £100 mark?
I suppose it’s one way to keep his tabletop appearances limited in number, and make it appear a bit more ‘elite’.. Absolutely obscene pricing, in my opinion.
The rules should make it rare, not the price.
Yes I agree completely! I was being facetious. 🙂
Not commenting on the price but apparently model rules in the box, ofc rules to use said model are probably not.
Well, he has his own army book.
Actually, I think he has two army books, it seems. Take that, Slann!
I do find the rules release a bit odd.
And people complained about the old chap’s hat? This is just so over the top … literally. Next, are they going to sell a model with a string, and you hang him from the ceiling?
Aw, now you’ve gone and done it. That will be next.
Haha! Hang him from a ceiling fan so he zooms around in circles.
GW will come out with their own ceiling fan with their logo and skulls on it for $2000, and then another $100 for the rules.
Then send a C&D letter to your electrician for IP infringement of the electricity wiring
Uhm…very boring and static pose. The mini looks pretty silly what with the huge hat he’s wearing on his tiny little skull head. Of course, the silly mini comes with a silly price tag. I wonder how long GW will get away with (mostly) silly minis for (consistently) silly prices.
Forever apparently :-).
I wouldn’t place bets, what with the CEO resigning, and proclaiming that this was a great year so long as you ignore the financial side of things.
Still, they have a long ways to spiral before they’re going away. Unless they manage their finances poorly…
I’m seriously considering getting myself one of these, but that will depend on the price,
anything over £45 and its a no no.
I’ll just have to wait a year or so until there’s a cheap one going on eBay,
either that or attempt to sculpt my own. A shame really, as it is one of the nicest models to come out of of GW in a while.
While I understand that it is not to everyone’s taste, I really like this version of Nagash. He is turned up to eleven, but he is arguably the biggest bad in Warhammer – if anyone in the Old World has the right to go big (both figuratively and literally) or go home, it is Nagash. He certainly conveys a sense of immense (though not at all understated) power that fits with the character’s background; this is a sculpt of Nagash girded for war. He is not trying to sneak about, working in the shadows – he is showing off his power in order to intimidate. In that light, I think this sculpt works.
I also much prefer this image of the model’s colour scheme – it seems less bright and thus more sinister here, especially the darker version in the lower image. I also like the various tomes (books of Nagash?) swirling around him among the spirit host. Without access to tablet computer, this is the alternative for the trendy dark sorcerer about town.
I also have a suggestion for people who dislike this particular sculpt – if you have the modeling skill you could convert or even sculpt your own version and simply use the rules for Nagash. Imagine a Warcraft Scourge themed Undead army where you use Nagash’s rules and covert a version of Arthas as the Lich King riding an ensorceled, floating chunk of Icecrown Glacier including the Frozen Throne. His magical mount explains the high toughness and wounds value and the monster rules including the Thunderstomp. The Mortis Blade and staff taken together could represent Frostmourne. The Nine Books of Nagash give you a means of representing the Crown of the Damned thing the Lich King wears, and the general magical power of Nagash seems to well represent the abilities of the Lich King form the Warcraft lore.
It would be an extremely ambitious conversion, but if you pulled it off it would be quite the centre peice. Does anyone out there feel like a challenge…? 😉
Well if I was into Tomb Kings I would have to scratch my own model.
I don’t find the figure particularly bad, but I sure as hell couldn’t justify the price if the £65 + rules figure is correct.
It wouldn’t be that hard. Because I wouldn’t festoon the old bugger in bones! lol
Nagash isn’t limited toTomb Kings. As far as I can see, this Undead Legion force mentioned in his rules will include both Tomb Kings and Vampire Counts units, possibly enabling you to mix and match from both lists to your heart’s content.
There also seem to be hints that Nagash’s lieutenants will soon arrive on the scene, including (so it has been rumoured) characters like Arkhan the Black and even a ressurected Vlad Von Carstein.
Would that be any more tempting? As a Vampire Counts player, I am certainly interested.
Not into Vampires either! lol
TBH I feel rather sad at how little I now care about WHFB fluff.
It just feels like I have had that stuffing knocked out of me and too many years and a lot of pleasurable non-GW water has passed under the bridge.
It could have all been so different
Fair enough – each to their own.
There are all kinds of good options out there now. I hope you enjoy whatever it is you play. If you like the macabre and strange, may I suggest Malifaux or Carnivale?
I would love to play those games.
Malifaux seems to be catching on at my LFGS and some of the new models look cool.
I have decided not to commit to any more minis games for the foreseeable future as the backlog of unpainted unused minis is already too large.
I have plenty of other interests that also take up too much cash! lol
As an example of opportunity costing, today I received a copy of Eldritch Horror.
£36 inc postage.
That is only £3 more than the RRP of one of the new Space Wolves Dreads.
As before, I appreciate that a GW fan will differ from my opinion, but pound for pound there is no contest.
I get the impression that people are so much into GW products that they have no contextual reference point for cost or even value.
There are some top games out there for the cost of the Nagash model. Though reluctantly I cannot justify the outlay for those
Paying the bills comes first lol
Nailed it @chibi .”people are so much into GW products that they have no contextual reference point for cost or even value.”
Game, set, match.
I love it. Every bit as epic as he deserves.
The other upcoming undead stuff has me very exited.
Unbeleivable cool, best looking GW mini I’ve seen in a long while (other than a few Forgeworld bits and pieces)
I really enjoy the current aesthetic that GW are striving for so I’m more than happy, a great release as far as models go. Chuffed that fantasy is getting a nice bit of attention 🙂
Hmm, I’d really like to start a VC or TK army now but the price is a bit much for me at the moment given that time is so scarce.
While the rules for nagash are extra, they are included in White Dwarf as we have seen and more importantly those extra rules are in the form of a slip containing two hard back books, one being 296 pages and the other being 96 pages for £50 which is a lot but it has nearly 4 times the page count of a Army book at less than double the price.
So while I can understand people begrudging spending that sort of money on a Model (Personally I will pick it up via a christmas or birthday as its a rare type of center piece model), the actual rules themselves while not ‘cheap’ in any way are actually far better value than what is seen with Army Books/Codexes.
Regardless of what people say about GW and costs, they do produce truly beautiful looking books (even if the content is sometimes lacking, normally due to too small a page count) and I doubt this double set will be anything less than stunning…
crimsonsun
Sorry but for £50 I want something a lot more than a rules book for one dude.
Especially when they will be obsolete in 5 years time.
I appreciate your preferences, but I also love beautiful books and would like to think I have some.
GW rulebooks are not among them.
For the price the crayons should be included.
Crayons?
I want artist quality oil paints
Never happen. They’ll be sold separately, and there will be 17 different shades of each colour. But they will all have a GW logo, and only cost $300 if you buy them as a set.
Dont forget they are 300$ out of the set as well, but why spend 30 seconds picking the colours out manually when you can one click collection them.
I have found some new images of the forthcoming releases for the Undead Legions after Nagash over at Imagur.
http://imgur.com/a/SpnI3
We seem to be getting three Mortarchs – they appear to be Arkhan, Neferata and Manfred – on new mounts of some kind. Arkhan is the Mortarch of Sacrament, Neferata is the Mortarch of Blood, and we don’tyet know what Mannfred is Mortarch of.
We also get Morghast Harbingers, that seem to be pretty brutal winged Undead Constructs with access to duel swords and pole arms that seem to be magical in nature, and new Spirit Host models.
It seems it is also possible to assemble Nagash wielding the Mortis Blade rather than his staff. The blade itself looks pretty nasty, seemingly wreathed in bale flame.
I like what I am seeing here, though I imagine it might be a bit over the top for some tastes.
—————————————————————————————————————–
Mods – if posting this link is a problem due to GW’s posture on these things, just delete it and let me know. i will be suitably chastened.
Each leutenant got its own Battlecat transformers edition .. nothing scary or disturbing about them .. just a he-man rehash. Really hate what they are turning their fantasy world into.
You want scary and disturbing from your minis? I can’t remember the last time I saw a sculpt that came even close to evoking either emotion, from any company.
I do wonder whether these construct mounts are really any more silly than Zombie Dragons.
Or standard Dragons.
Or Manticores.
Or Wyverns.
Or Cockatrices.
Or any of the hundreds of other biologically improbable/impossible critters that populate fantasy fiction of all types. Take away the whimsy and supernaturalism from fantasy and what you have left is alternate historical fiction, which while all well and good in itself is afterall an entirely different genre.
Apart from the obvious joke about being terrified by the prices…
Not sure how you would generate terror in a table top miniature.
Much easier to get a positive aesthetic response
Little Chuckies that just keep coming on at you with power swords might do the trick.
May be it is just my inability to empathise with my little plastic heroes being confronted by a dread being
So maybe I will try and use my imagination more and empathise with the minis!
No youre right of course, atleast when it comes to GWs range. Kingdom death is another story, but we dont want to go there for warhammer i think 😉 Hell dorado have a number of really disturbing demons, and even if genuine terror is not the feeling they inwoke they are not overloading your senses with 2000 tiny skulls. Imo the design for these new undead are just too much in your face plastic action figure, with some very obvious warmachine aesthetics thrown in to attract attention. Emotion can be conveyed through the minis posing, but with these its no middle ground. Its either Mcstiffles or Deathmetal Nickelodeon action figure :p
The 7 sins stuff that just came out is really creepy… no penises, even on the ‘Lust’ figure.
I agree. One of the best sculpts that I think GW did was Aenur sword of twilight. He was so simple and majestic. Mail vest, wind blown hooded cloak, breeches, boots and sword. With a pose that showed complete confidence in his abilities, not a showy ridiculous pose. If GW could just get back to those sort of sculpts.
What’s even more amazing about that mini, was that it was free with white dwarf.
There is no arguing with the Warmachine influence. The Morghast Harbingers in particular could be kissing cousins (now there’s an image for you…) of Cryx Warjacks.
Those Harbingers have Night Lord raptor conversions written all over them.
LOL !! I just realised it’s £65… unless it’s super large, like titan sized then another fail from GW even when they’ve actually got the model right. It’s like a bad joke.
Don’t care how big it is, that sort of cash for the figure is way over the top.
I know the fans will still splash it, well, good luck to them.
Personally I see it as a bad joke too. At least it won’t be at my expense, pun intended
This thread is a perfect example of why we will never see better cheaper figures from GW.
As you are entitled to your taste and preferences, so others are entitled to theirs. How they spend their money is their business. Aesthetics are subjective.
There are plenty of cheaper but still good quality alternative models produced by companies like Mantic, and there are several alternative games systems as well. GW has not had a corner on the market for a while now. That there are still plenty of people who like GW products does no harm to wargaming as a hobby.
The days when wargaming lived or died with GW are long gone, if they ever even existed at all.
I don’t think aesthetics are subjective, there is a rough objectivity to them – though in the corners it’s muddy.
It is the cost that is subjective, but is nonetheless something that has consequences we can measure: if 9 people think something is expensive and 1 person thinks its cheap, then a problem will arise. Something GW appears to be subject to again and again but they don’t seem to damn well be getting the message.
I don’t think I’m the only one who thought this was an amazing model then looked at the price and laughed out loud.
I can’t agree about objectivity in aesthetics, not in a world where some people still consider the nudes of the great masters to be mere ‘smut’ and demand that they be destroyed in the name of ‘public morality’, or where statues are shelled or mined into oblivion as ‘idolatry’, or where there are still book burnings because some group of idiots somewhere take offence at literature, history, science or just reality in general.
These are all dramatic examples I grant you, but they illustrate the basic point that there is simply no consensus on aesthetics – ask ten people to define art, and you would get ten different answers.
Just consider two music lovers; one preferes Mozart to Wagner, the other reverses that order – by what even remotely objective standard could you declare one ‘wrong’ and the other ‘right’?
Few things outside mathematical and logical proofs and the most well evidentially supported scientific theories can truly be called objective – the rest is mostly subject to shifting and transitory cultural and historical norms; social constructs that have no significance outside the human societies that created them, and are thus subjective. It is interesting to note that the modern gender coding of colours – that blue is associated with boys and pink with girls – has only really held for a little over a century. Go back a couple of hundred years and it was commonly thought that a pink gift was appropriate for a child regardless of gender. When it comes to collectively expressed cultural expressions of taste and preferences, what seems eternal and set in stone often really isn’t, but is actually only a recent innovation when viewed in any but the most brief of historical contexts
It can even credibly be argued that it is quite problematic, even dangerous, to try to suggest that there is any absolute standard according to which it is permissable to tell anyone what their aesthetic preferences should be. That particular excuse is always on the first page of every would-be censor’s playbook.
I could drone on like this for ages, but this is probably getting a bit heavy and dramatically off topic. Suffice to say that I have my reasons to be leery of any attempt to introduce notions of hard objectivity into any discussion of personal taste.
Now, less philosophy, more wargaming talk! Quick, before Warren catches us and feeds us to his pet Morats…
Not saying you wrong that cost is where GW believes the market will bear it, although sales figures suggest they are wrong on that. I am a factor as I still buy their models/rules when I feel they get it right and the price works for me.
However, if they produce a model that enough people feel is worth that money to be a success for them then they are doing it right.
As to better figures, how do you define better? I looked at the bone giant you mentioned in the other thread – not a better model in my view. Not having a go genuinely interested as to what your idea of better models is?
Better for the price: $15. I’ve been doing mods for 30 years, so it’s easy enough to ramp that one up to look as good or better than the one GW has produced. And as I’ve stated, this bling thing isn’t bad, but it’s not much better than average, and certainly not worth the price.
I stopped buying GW products a few years back, but I always hope they will come up with something I won’t feel bad throwing money at, but the options are getting fewer and fewer, and the prices keep going up. The Bretonnians will probably be my last hope, and in anticipation of an epic fail, I have already started buying Gamezone figures instead.
I also like some of the 40k figures, which are cheap enough in box sets, that I can use in the Traveler/Striker universe (love the old realistic sci-fi). But the vehicle prices are, of course, outrageous.
@cpauls1 Ah, so it more about a base to build upon. While I like conversion and I am starting to play with scratch building I don’t find a lot of time and I am too eclectic in my tastes with too many big projects to dedicate a lot of time to single models normally.
Is there an upper cap for you on a model? I tend to go on what I can justify – in terms of do I feel that particular model offers me value. I tend to separate that out from my view of the quality of the miniature. Not sure on Nagash as a buy, books are probably a sale for me and will govern if Nagash is a yes or no – but I still like it.
Brets I am hopeful for, but hope can be a cruel thing. Still I was pleasantly surprised by the wood elves.
Not necessarily a baseline. I’m just a bargain hunter, and use mods to get things to look the way I want them to. For instance, I have an orc army for Battlesystem that numbers over 900 figures, and most of them of them came from EM4. Not great, but good enough for an army of that size. Cost about $270 total. Scavenged ungor and Tomb Kings bits from various people who were building such things, and swapped out the odd head for some Wargames Factory ones to change up the look even more.
72 of them were converted to cav (the bodies are perfectly suited for that. Just cut off the base and do a bit of filing). Got the metal wolves online for $1.00 each. Command groups: Mantic (the GW cartoony ones and all the proxies out there don’t do it for me) with ungor banners.
For big critters within that army I’ve gone with the pre-painted D&D plastics where I could. The material is terrible, but easy to cut up and therefore modify. I always replace the weapons with rigid ones and spray the figures with matt fixative before painting over or embellishing the colours that are on them. I think the bugbears cost fifty cents each. I scavenged 36 GW ogre heads, and made a regiment of them. The rest are from the new Reaper Bones collection, and I’m currently working on a unit of 12 marsh trolls.
I have about 10 projects on the go at any one time, and most are awaiting parts. I buy bits on EBay often. I try to keep things reasonable, at about $1.00 a figure, but I’ll spend money where the style of a figure is exactly what I want. My elf army of 300 figures is all GW (mostly battalion boxes). And I don’t mind spending more money on command groups. To answer your question, I think the most I ever spent is on a metal female mounted standard from Raging Heroes… about $50. She was exactly what my missus wanted for an all female knight command group… even the flag was perfect. And the quality was absolutely amazing. The rest of my mounted knight command groups come from Gamezone. Price works out to about $15 each, which I still feel is a bit high, but they are far superior to plastic GW ones. I do , however, have GW knights in abundance. I got 72 of the old plastic ones, along with 48 of the archers, for $60 on EBay.
Big mounts – dinosaurs from dollar store, or dragons from dollar store. I’m currently working on a unit of a dozen dragons that cost a dollar each. Building alternate wings from wire, putty and clear plastic. The plastic nearest the outside edge will be painted in butterfly patterns (on both sides of the plastic). Mounts will be elven, silver helms from Hoard o’ Bits. Comparative value: I could make about 30 of those for the cost of Mr. Average here, and get hundreds of hours of pleasure doing it.
It’s all about value and creativity, and for me Nagash doesn’t score in either category.
I loved the mini
and I would love to get a metal version of it
but GW is too expensive to my taste
Assume that BoW hasn’t been hit by the legal letter to remove these pics like some sites then?
They love their legal letters don’t they? It’s gotten to the stage where getting one is almost a compliment 🙂
‘That’s okay GW, we were happy to do your advertising for free and to get the community you don’t seem to care about saving their money for your new releases, engaging in lively debate about your upcoming product, so when the time comes you’ll make more money, you’re welcome. We’ll remove all images people have already seen, saved and uploaded elsewhere and we think it’s sweet you don’t get the internet yet. Now drop that legal pen and give us a hug, you’ll feel better, c’mon let’s hug it out.’
Honestly, you have to feel sorry for their legal team at this point, like Mr. T wisely says ‘I pity the fool!’ 🙂
I pity them in the same way as I pity traffic wardens…
The industry is too small and personable for this kind of ugly behaviour (essentially, bullying), and it leaves a nasty taste in the mouth. I’m a pretty conscientious shopper, or at least try to be, and this kind of legal shenanigans alone is enough to stop me wanting to buy anything from GW. I’m sure I’m not the only person that feels like this.
The legal department at GW really needs to look up the Streisand effect.
Unless, of course, they already have, and this is all some really ill advised and letigious marketing strategem…
Nah, I am just getting paranoid in my old age. 😉
Well it does look better than the old Nagash, aka “The Figure You Could Only Love For The Stats”.
Looks like a darn fiddly build, though.
I still love the model and it looks like my £65 prediction was correct, sadly 🙁
I think £40-45 would be a better price point but I also think he’s 1000pts worth and if they go back to 50% lords/heroes then he’s good value in army collecting terms. I agree he’s pricey for what it is but I think people also forget how many hours worth of hobby they get when they buy into any wargame. How many hours you spend putting minis together, painting and gaming with them all adds up to make most wargames a fairly cheap hobby per hour. What’s grating about GW is that they don’t get the fact that less is more, I’m not talking pure aesthetics here, but if their minis were just a little less pricey, people would buy more and if they realised they are a retailer they might start doing deals again BUT with their current bs corporate attitude and quagmire games design I reckon they’ll continue to lose money for the forseeable future, especially if they ignore the plethora of competion out there.
I’m glad they are moving Fantasy forward but if some rumours are true, with Kislev being destroyed, then I fear for fantasy’s background a little. I’m sure many would love Kislev kits is all, I would, so cutting off an avenue for future revenue would be stupid, only time will tell of course 🙂
This is getting off topic, but I don’t think comparison of value based on price per hour, especially between different hobbies, is very fruitful.
Some guy from DP9 famously complained that RPG books are way underpriced when compared to movie tickets on a dollars-per-hour basis. I don’t think anyone actually agreed with him.
I consider value based on comparable offerings from other manufacturers. If I can get a good basic figure for let’s say 2 quid these days (metal) and someone tries to charge 5 for basically the same thing… I’m not seeing great value and I’ll likely shop elsewhere.
That’s also why I never play games that try to lock you into a single manufacturer.
For me the value of the Nagash figure is based on what else I could be getting for the same price.
But ‘destroyed’ can be interpreted many ways. Even if the entire province is consumed by the Chaos Wastes, that doesn’t mean that all the Kislivites go with it. There might well be refugess and survivors forced to flee into the more northerly provinces of the Empire. You could have the Tzarina living in exile from her own land, surrounded by her most loyal Boyars and plotting to strike back against the hated Chaos hordes, or even entertaining the notion of raising a grand army and trying to retake her homeland (which might be somewhat ill advised given what lying under the thrall of the wastes did to Praag, but I don’t imagine tha would faze the Kislivites much given their background).
Just because Kislev the state is gone in the lore doesn’t mean the units from it are gone as well, indeed it may even lead to more Kislivite elements being introduced into mainstream Empire armies as part of a supplement of some kind to reflect the survivors banding together with their southern neighbours (no soft southern jesse jokes please) to fight back against Archaon’s armies. We will just have to wait and see.
I am seeing a lot of antipathy toward Nagash’s head design – the head dress in particular seems to be increasingly likened to the pope’s hat. I don’t suppose it would be too difficult to remove the existing head and use greenstuff to model a cowl/hood in its place that largely obscures the face and gives a slightly grim reaper-esque aspect to the model.
For the price, shouldn’t head options be included?
Head options would certainly be nice. Then again, maybe they are in there; none of us have seen the spues yet.
One of them will be Cher’s head.
You could combine replacing the head with a cowl with modelling a suitably huge scythe in place of the staff. I know the whole reaper look is a bit of a cliche, but the idea of Nagash choosung a form that mocks the Empire death god Morr seems like the kind of thing that would amuse him while demoralising the Empire’s soldiers.
I’m in love with these models, very Castlevania. Hitting all the right buttons with moi! Absolutely cannot decide anymore whether to plough ahead with getting a Vampire army sorted or ‘stick’ and wait for the Brettonian release…
That or import a gundam kit or two.
Curse my impatience!
Having read in the Wood Elf Army Book about the civil conflict within Bretonnia between King Leoncour and his nephew (i think) Malobad of Mousillon, and that Malobad has struck a bargain with the Undead for allies and may have become a vampire himself in the process, then may I be the evil little voice in your ear that suggests both factions (maybe even with a few Wood Elves thrown in to represent the King’s Sylvan allies), modelled to represent that conflict? 😉
Afterall, it seems very likely that Nagash knows all about it and seeks to use this little civil war to his own advantage. Malobad may not know the true identity if his new ally (or rather master) yet, but that will doubtless come soon enough…
OK – I will now stop enabling your plastic crack addiction, I promise.
Sorry, but between the model and books it is NOT $200 impressive.
I’ll stick with Infinity now. At least they care about their customers and games and don’t constantly see them as nothing more than wallets to fleece.
The 65 £ is just about what operation ice storm for infinity costs … just to put things in perspective for anyone trying to justify or argue logically how its value for money. GW continue with their insults, lets see how that durther affect sales.
Further ..
I don’t think a pricing policy, however unrealsitic, can really be construed as an insult without taking the whole business way too personally. I have never understood where this attitude comes from that GW has it in for the wargaming community as a whole, still less individual gamers in particular.
While I don’t agree with them, I can at least see the logic in arguments that GW pricing policies are ill advised, short sighted, greedy, even harmful to the future of their company and by extension the community that plays their games, but an insult? If those who predict the downfall of GW are right, then it seems to me that it is very unlikely that GW would risk the collapse of their business just to put two fingers up to wargamers. Money grubbing greed is at least a more credible motivation, however ugly it is in its own right.
What possible benefit would they derive from giving one in the eye to wargamers just because? It is pratically the definition of cutting off one’s nose to spite one’s face. To believe that, you must effectively assert that the entire GW management structure is not merely wrong or even incompetent, but nothing short of delusional. A shared mania on that scale doesn’t seem like the most parsimonious explanation for what is happening here.
Are you for real? 🙂 Of course they are not insulting anyone as far as they are concerned, insult is what it becomes when the price is announced and fans of the brand are expected to pay it. The shallow money grab without any effort to express in any way that their customers are valued is insulting.
Ah, right. I see your meaning now.
I will now deactivated excessively literal mode. 😉
You did read the annual report?
Just by their own statements of admission they have no idea (or care) what their customers want and have proven themselves completely isolated from reality.
They don’t do market research.
They don’t make what their customers want because their customers will buy what they make.
And they had a great year if you don’t consider a financial train wreck a bad year (a clearly delusional statement right at the beginning an annual financial report).
Lastly, when you don’t hire for skills and simply attitude (in the US known as hiring “yes-men”) you get exactly what your last statement is referring to.
I for one don’t like feeling I am being ripped of, and taken for granted. Which is exactly how I felt with GW. Having had enough of it it was me that gave them the Agincourt Salute
A woman came into my LFGS with her son. She had been sold the previous rulebook for 40K. Even though the new one had been out for a fortnight.
Contrast Flames of War. New rule books for old.
You don’t need to be a genie to figure out who makes the customer feel better.
Deliberately selling someone an out of date rulebook is entirely out of order. Strictly speaking, if you know the new edition is coming out in the releatively near future, you should advise people to hold off for a few weeks; it is just good customer service. New rulebooks for old would be even better, though I can see why a company might consider that too great a loss to be sustainable if their books are at the more costly end of the spectrum of production values found in wargaming.
Have been stung myself which did not impress.
I bought the Orcs and Goblins Army Book which was then obsolete within a week or two.
No warning that the new book was forthcoming.
I decided that was the last GW book I would buy.
No idea what the solution is. The problem is so deeply ingrained into the whole GW culture, that the fans are all too willing to participate in.
The constant rewrites is something that has really put me off.
As a model art direction wise, I really don’t like it personally. As a technical exercise in plastic model design, it’s a masterclass. I may not like the aesthetic of their newer kits, but I’m in awe of how far they are pushing the manufacture aspects.
Maybe that’s why I don’t like it; it seems clever just for clevers sake. It’s almost like they are doing it purely to make it impractical for the knock-off shops to replicate their designs.
From a guy named JOHIRA on Dakkadakka
“I’m as fond of bashing GW as much as the next guy, but let’s be realistic when it comes to giant hats and fake beards: When we’re talking about undead necromancer Liche-kings, a certain degree of ponce is mandatory. Nagash should really be the ponceyest ponce who ever ponced a ponce. A hat that’s not a minimum 8 ft tall would undermine his credibility as lord of the undead. When you’re a mortal general it’s expected that you dress practically for battle. When you’re an immortal undead overlord who has shed the bonds of flesh and no longer cares for the joys of food, drink, and the warmth of a lover’s embrace, the only purpose left in life is to make sure you look absolutely fabulous.
To that end, my only criticism of the model (apart from its thoroughly unnecessary size creep and attendant price-creep) is that it has too much armour and not enough needlessly extravagant robes with pointy shoulder pads. I want his pointy shoulder pads to have pointy shoulder pads. Those weird spine spikes on his back need fine satin capes to be billowing off of them. Instead of being born aloft by tormented spirits, I want to see Nagash wearing them like robes.
When you have the raw magical power and warpstone-fueled madness to sculpt everyone who makes fun of your giant hat into a freaking skeleton loin cloth, you don’t hulk and brood in giant suits of armor, you strut and swagger..”
Live the fluff. BE the fluff.
The man has a point. Laughing at the silly hat of the seriously unhinged guy who basically has the power of a god probably isn’t the best path to long term health and prosperity. Much as Vlad the Impaler supposedly left valuable artifacts lying about out in the open where theoretically anyone could steal them (but no one did because you would have to be completely off your nut to steal from a guy who lists ‘impaling people’ amongst his hobbies) as a demonstration of power, so Nagash can wear an evil undead pope hat and wonder around showing off his withered, necrotic midriff and no one with any sense will so much as snicker under their breath is they know what is good for them…
To everyone bashing on this model: Would you seriously be hating on it if it were any other company? Probably not. If Mantic made this and it only cost £30 you would be peeing in your panties with excitement. But sadly it’s GW and folk just love to hate them.
It’s a glorious model and probably one of the best models any company has made in years. Yes he’s pompous, yes he has a massive hat… he’s f*’#ing NAGASH!!!!
The price on the other hand is utterly ridiculous.
GW has been in the bussiness longer than the other companies and pose wise this is the only thing they could come up with? As you say hes /$@@//%/#@ Nagash!!! I envision him being just as much a fighter as a spellcaster, not some huge undead balerina just floating around the battlefield. If this had been mantic today i would have applauded the effort because it had been an improvement detail wise, but i hadnt liked the model itself anymore than i do now. The overprice comes with the GW brand and makes it even sillier. Lets say Mantic had released this for 30£, to me it had been worth the buy because i could spend some time “fixing” the model to my liking. For 65£ i expect an amazing model out of the box
“Would you seriously be hating on it if it were any other company?”
Yes. I’m not hating on it, the aesthetic just does nothing for me personally, regardless who produced it.
“If Mantic made this and it only cost £30 you would be peeing in your panties with excitement. But sadly it’s GW and folk just love to hate them”
Not really, no. I would still not like it. Cost isn’t really a factor for me (I know it is for others and don’t dispute that). I decide if I like a miniature first then decide if I’m prepared to pay whatever the price is as a separate decision. It’s like a two-stage process for me. If I don’t like it, it doesn’t matter how cheap it is it wouldn’t influence my decision to buy (or not).
The fact that you do like it and it’s bombastic pomposity excites you is awesome; that’s exactly what a model kit should do. It just happens I don’t share the same opinion, but that’s cool too and shouldn’t affect your enjoyment of it.
Neither does me not liking it automatically equating to me “hating on GW”. I actually think as a kit it shows some serious ambition to push what can be achieved in a plastic figure, that’s what blows me away. I totally agree it’s a glorious model, I just wouldn’t buy one regardless how cheap it was or who made it.
Mantic would do it for £20…and I probably still wouldn’t buy it.
Yes.
It doesn’t matter what company made it, it’s still a hideous model.
People are entitled to their own aesthetic – I really like this version of Nagash (the somewhat OTT elements contribute to my appreciation – this is Warhammer afterall, world of axe obsessed, bare-chested mohawk-toting dwarf psychpaths, emotions given form as literal killer creatures form the id with psychodelic colour preferences, and an entire human civilisation that doesn’t deign to use any ordinary engineering when they could be using spectacularly odd clock-punk weird science devices instead. Turning it up to 11 is positively required in such environs) and consider it quite the epic example of Warhammer undead weirdness, but it just doesn’t work for some other people. Perhaps they find it too over the top, or just don’t like the design style, or have no taste for the undead factions or for warhammer as a gaming system at all; all are valid personal choices, even though you and I do not share them.
Even the most epic (to our eyes) of lich lord sculpts cannot be all things to all wargamers.
Of course, you do get people who automatically hate everything GW does on a point of (to my mind rather perverse and quixotic) principle. I don’t understand that mentality, but they are still entitled to their opinion.
The enjoyment of a model like this by people who like the style and approach of its creators is in no way diminished by the fact that there are those who don’t share that perspective. I think they will be missing out on a great kit, but that is their choice, and they have every right to make it.
That said, the price point is a little eyewatering. Still, them’s your breaks; either you think it is worth it, or you don’t. Neither choice is ‘wrong’ in any absolute sense, since only you can determine how much the kit is worth to you.
Do you work for GW, @vetruviangeek ?
No, I work in the finance department of a supermarket chain (for my sins); not everyone who likes GW’s stuff is a paid employee, you know. 😉
That said, if GW is listening, and they want to pay me for doing nothing more strenuous than liking their stuff, then I would certainly be open to that…
What do you mean, pull the other one, it has warpstone chunks on?
🙂
Don’t get your hopes up!
GW don’t like paying their own staff.
Hell, they don’t like BoW giving them free publicity! lol
Why do you keep repeating that everyone is entitled to their own opinion? This speaks for itself i think, the fact is not lost on anyone in here i think.
i think i think … think .. ironic post of the day i think
I think, therefore Iams
Iams, the thinking cat’s cat food.
I should be in marketing. I ams wasted here
The point is admittedly a bit fundamental, but it bears repeating, since in my experience it can easily be forgotten when people holding well establsihed positions, particularly on matters of ‘proper’ taste, start really getting into a discussion. That way lies rows, angry ranting and general internet unpleasantness, all best avoided by taking a step back and remembering that, even if you think the other chap an uncouth barbarian, nobody is the final authority on anybody else’s taste.
That, and I can sometimes be a bit of a pompous git who likes the sound of his own voice (sight of his own posts?) over much… 😉
Pompus Git would actually a good name for a non-Nagash Nagash model from Mantic
Doesn’t Mantic already do a sort of not-Nagash model with that special character necromancer of theirs? I forget the name, but I remember seeing images of him in promotional materials for Kings of War.
Still, Pompous Git would be a good name… 😉
Interestingly, I just dowloaded the latest WD from the Black Library website, and it includes some of the concept art for this version of Nagash in which he doesn’t have any legs, just a spinal column hanging down. The pose is also different, intended to convey the impression that he is floating back and to the side while casting a spell. The artwork is really effective, but it does all bear a really striking resemblance to a certain Kel’Thuzad from another well known fantasy IP, which is rather funny given that Kel’Thuzad and the Lich King were both so clearly influenced by Nagash in the first place.
I imagine the legs were added later to minimise that impression (and avoid any possible legal wrangles – as you sow, so shall you reap, GW…), but one could probably remove them again if one were of such a mind…
I dont like the miniature. Seems GW thougths are: make something big and it will be impressive but to me they fail. There is lack on fantasy. Using alot of spikes doesn’t do it for me, makes it rather inspireless and counter productive on the gruel and mysterieus evil side. Like redben mentioned it looks like a cheap action figure, like the new woodelf trees look like over the top transformers. I don’t like them either, which is a pitty cause I like woodelfs and their nature aspect, which is all gone in those models.
For me it’s one of the most impressive plastic kits they have brought out and I’m a huge fan of all the other big monster kits they have done.
However today I just looked at the price and thought oh no what are they thinking…
I would have to do some seriously screwed up mental gymnastics to consider buying it for that price. It should be £40 max.
It’s now out of stock, so either they didn’t produce many, or enough people thought £65 was a fair enough price point!
Isn’t it still on pre-order?
If not I would be very surprised if they sold out in a day or two.
Unless they only made a small quantity which also seems unlikely.
It’s ‘Out of Stock’ on the site, suggesting the initial manufacture quantity have all been pre-ordered.
Just rechecked (last looked at 5pm) and it’s back up for pre-order. Guess some of the stock they allocated to FLGS has been clawed back for web orders.