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More Warhammer Age Of Sigmar Empire & Chaos Models Sighted [Updated]
June 27, 2015 by brennon
Games Workshop have been teasing a few more morsels of information about the coming Age of Sigmar Edition of Warhammer Fantasy and with next week heralding the start of pre-orders this week is a Warhammer Fantasy Celebration. Also, could we be getting free rules?!
Update: Leaked Image of New Sigmarites & Chaos Revealed
More Leaks - Close Ups Of Chaos & Sigmarite Warriors
The images above come from a more up to date source than the ones below and pretty much blow them out of the water. This is most certainly the NEW Warhammer Fantasy Starter Set with both Chaos and Sigmarites clashing.
If you want a low down on what we think of the new models keep an eye out for our thoughts later this week.
With that in mind I thought it would be fun for you guys to comment below with your favourite moments from Warhammer as it was and what you hope to see going forward.
Prospective Starter Set Details (Old Rumours)?
Some more details came in about the prospect of a new Starter Set and while I don't think there is much truth to this particular morsel I'm sure we'll see for certain very soon...
- 1x Empire General on Griffin
- 5x Knights of Sigmar
- 10x State Troops with Spears
- 10x State Troops with Muskets
- 1x Lord of Khorne on Daemonsteed
- 5x Chaos Knights
- 10x Chaos Warriors
While that sounds very plausible when you think about the contents of a Starter Set it doesn't found very 'fun' and Age of Sigmar. Added to that no small rulebook, and you have some people scratching their chins.
You never know though, this could just be someone using very general terms for a whole range of new plastic models.
Free Rules?
There was also this leak which apparently showed up some rather interesting information about the new rules being...FREE?!
"Contained within this free download is the core ruleset needed in order to begin your own adventures within the Age of Sigmar. This four-page PDF is yours to keep, print out and play with, and when combined with a Warscroll Compendium or two - available below, also totally free - is everything you need to know. Grab it, read it, and begin playing right away!"
I will probably picking up as much Age of Sigmar stuff as I can just to give it a go. I am actually getting a bit excited.
What do you think?
"I thought it would be fun for you guys to comment below with your favourite moments from Warhammer as it was and what you hope to see going forward..."
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I was more hoping that this version was true:
http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2015/06/age-of-sigmar-rumor-tidalwave.html
Free rules you say? Welcome to the 21st century, Games Workshop, we’ve been expecting you…
While I would love to see that I expect it will be a getting started booklet or quick start rules. GW please prove me wrong. But if not 4 pages of rules? Could be interesting
Seems full rules could be 4 pages, same source also says never more inclusive which could be taken a number of ways. So wait and see …
Yes @redben they are free. All you need to do is sign this waver and it all yours. Don’t bother reading fine print that says you willingly give up your soul for this “free” download. 🙂
@manpug Only one soul, that’s a price decrease 😛
I’ll wait and see
The rumour mill for this has been a bit up and down. I hear one set of rumours and I think, “wow, that sounds cool”. Then I hear another set and I’m a bit “meh” so I guess ultimately I’m in the I’ll wait and see what it’s all about when they announce pre-orders. Rather than saying I’m excited, I’ll say I’m interested. I have a huge soft spot for Warhammer Fantasy and I would really like to see this turn the game around. But there’s too many conflicting rumours for me to be genuinely excited.
One thing me and my brother discussed recently is their traditional marketing tactic, which is generally say nothing until it’s released and let the rumour mill do its work. It gets a lot of criticism (and I can understand that – in todays day and age we’re used to information on demand) but I also think it works in it’s own way; the rumour mills rarely fail to generate hype and you can visit any number of websites at any time of year and see discussions about what people think is coming next. However I wonder if perhaps they have missed a trick with this particular release. Personally I think they’re in a no-lose situation with Age of Sigmar – WFB as it stands is a dying game with falling player numbers and as a consequence falling sales; the reasons for that aren’t necessarily relevant to my point so I’m not going to go into them. If they release Age of Sigmar and it’s a flop I think they will park fantasy – for now at least – which is something they may well have had to do anyway so they’ve lost nothing. If on the other hand it’s a success than well done GW, they’ve turned it around.
So, bearing that in mind, could they perhaps have changed their marketing approach with this? Could they have dipped their toes in the water, so to speak, and released more previews or information in the run up to its release. I can see reasons for them not doing so, such as including not wanting to open themselves up to criticism before the product is even launched (which would happen simply because its GW) or even just not wanting to a change in comms strategy at the same time as making a huge change to a product (large companies are generally risk averse, maybe that would be just a step too far). However I’m not sure that the rumour mill this time has generated quite as much hype as they would have liked and from what I’ve seen on various forums, Beasts of War chief among them, it seems to me that the rumour mill has had quite a polarising effect (maybe that’s just me, but the haters have been very vocal about this particular release). If Age of Sigmar does represent an almost complete re-write of the Warhammer rules and possibly even the lore, then actually information about what the new game might be like would have been quite beneficial to many potential customers.
Thoughts?
I’d honestly be pretty interested to see someone come up with a list after Age of Sigmar has come out, in which you had what people predicted vs what actually turned out to be the case.
So much has been “leaked”, and I’d honestly like to know who to avoid listening to in the future; I don’t know what possesses people to just make up stuff, what do they get out of people believing lies?
The form of lies you’re speaking about and the reason they do it is complex. We all know at some point the truth will be revealed as the product will hit shelves. You’d think that making lies in the form of rumors for something that can and will be proven untrue would be an obvious area for people to avoid lying but it still happens. In part do to some people really wish to stir the pot and make waves. They know that it’s a fabricated lie but wish to see how many of us buy into the “version” they made up. In other cases it’s out of insecurities and a desire for praise, acceptance and attention. I see this often with people that have a form of munchausen syndrome. That is they make grand claims about themselves and others that are just not true. Some people may use false leaks as a means puff themselves up as people praise them for getting such valued info.
Looking over the leaked White Dwarf articles I am very glad some of the more pathetic/embarrassing rumours that so many people got excited about for some reason seem to be garbage.
Every thing in the White Dwarf at least looks like they are building up to BIGGER battles. Which is in line with GW quite frankly :p But I think by bigger they really mean Warhammer Unbound. I also get the feeling that this game is more “Warmachine” or Hero Hammer based – I assume the “skirmish” game is to be like that. I mean, it clearly says the “End Times” battles were tiny compared to what is coming … (could this imply faster, more simply rules allowing you to field larger armies but in less hours/time?)
Age of Sigmar seems to not actually be a single boxed game covering the Times of Sigmar but the “reborn” version of Sigmar. There doesn’t seem to be any attempt to “Squat” anything. Was much of the Warhammer world saved i.e. its citizens? Or will Sigmar somehow travel back in time to, say, as Nagash began his bullshit, in an attempt to stop the End Times in a Dr Who style plot which oddly enough allows us to use all of the End Times models in our normal games… Will we see the Warhammer world reshaped because of Sigmar’s calling?
Age of Sigmar does seem to be a Skirmish game centered around characters … is it the same at 9th?
I take this information with a HUGE handful of salt…..
The pictures look pretty genuine…
When people said “skirmish game”, I kind of had the Warmachine size in mind. Having seen a few friends’ armies for Warmachines, they seem to be quite reasonably sized. Currently I have a High Elf army with upwards of 70 models (it’s not massive, I know) which is only just scraping 1500 points, My Bretonnians are even worse, weighing in at nearly 100 models and barely scraping 1000 points. Bot those armies are considered “small” in terms of WFB, but would be massive something like Warmachine. I think I could enjoy a Fantasy game that ran out at 30 – 50 models. I wouldn’t necessarily call it a skirmish game either, it’s just skirmish compared to the current rules
Speaking as someone who loves Skaven, I’d love the new rules set to allow more a lower model count. I love all the weird warmachines / ninja’s / mech wizzards / etc…, what I’m not a fan of, is the thought of painting ranks and ranks and ranks of Skaven Slaves.
As an aside, I will say what has always made (current) Fantasy less appealing, is that your troops are relatively faceless; just something to be removed from the back rank.
It seems to be harder to become attached to models and create a story from them; here is the guy who keeps on killing himself with his own plasma gun (40k); here is the rat who keeps tripping whenever he goes for it (BB); here is the elf who held up a Jack; (Warmachine); etc…
try playing Bolt Action lol :p
I must have missed the WW2 lessons which involved little ratman shooting rifles, while being supported by big jerbil wheels that shot lightning everywhere.
I refer to how faceless and doomed and cheap life is when I say “try Bolt Action”
Free rules and already have warhammer fantasy minis at hand? 🙂 why not .. with the amount of skaven I have i would be hard pressed to buy new ones for this.
I’m not overly excited by what appears to be a reboxing/rebranding of empire and chaos models. Its as boring as what I’ve been stuck playing with warhammer for the past 5 years.
Definitely hoping for something much more exciting and possibly warmachine like. if not I’ll be searching for a new game to play.
If this pic. is the real deal, I’d say that the Sigmarites looks a bit like fantasy Space Marines….
http://www.warseer.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=215857&d=1435327952
Very space marine like,,though I do like the winged models, that’s interesting.
One week to go! Going to be a long week
Looks real to me – and exactly as expected. Expect all the factions to have a “space marine” equivalent. Lol @ the winged models, so much for “less cartoony”. Great models though.
doesnt look too bad actually … hard to see yet if they dropped the cartoony style of minis. Perhaps this game can help 40k develop further into a futuristic game rather than just fantasy in space.
What part of this He-Man inspired parade of uber men in golden armour wielding over-the-top massive warhammers is not cartoony… Please tell 😛
I meant for example the typical style the vampire count monster mounts had .. the contures are jagged and sharp and look like sketches. I cant tell from these pictures, but the proportions look better than heroice whfb to me. The picture further down shows some cawdor footmen i beleive so its difficult to know what to think 😛
Looks interesting, but then I remember that all the models in that photo will probably retail for about $10,000.
the do, but I like them
I Spy Space Marine Conversions!
I agree. Will make an awesome successor chapter for the blood angels. Blood hammers….
Bit weird in the fantasy space though (pun not intended).
Chaos warriors needed a good hard punch on there nose from someone big enough to go toe to toe with them. Sigmarites look like “good” magic imbued warriors designed to do just that.
Hopefully other kingdoms/tribes of men will be more conventional and puny.
So, they do have guns then after all, all looks like warmachine to me in the style.
I don’t see any guns. Every model has a hammer and/or an axe
I’m with wayneo7 on this one. There have been rumours – such as those Warren discussed in the second XLBS last week – that sounded really innovative and exciting. If the new set is as now seems the case, it doesn’t strike me as that different from existing WFB, apart from the rumoured move to a lower troop count.
I loved the idea of African berserkers, warrior priestesses and so on. The purported skirmish game in that set of rumours seemed so full of character. Compared to that, this seems like very much more of the same.
Still, it is just a rumour. Let’s wait and see.
How are “big troops in armour with angel wings” innovative?
Do you know what is actually innovative? The Steam Tank. The Doom Wheel. The Anvil of Doom.
Warhammer already had Warrior Priestesses and a host of female models. It already has Cathay and Araby which merely needed armies.
You may still see the steam tank and Doom Wheel.
But what’s not innovative is Empire State Troops, Imperial Knights, Bretonnian Knights… The evil forces for WFB were, mostly, quite good and had their own style. The Good races, specifically the humans, were just exaggerated historic soldiers
And bringing them together into a fantasy universe that is coherent is innovate. It’s what Warhammer WAS.
The Warhammer range was originally an amalgam if whatever minis in the Citadel catalogue could conceivably work in a fantasy game. In large part that meant re-purposing their historicals. Landsknechts became Empire, HYW French became Bretonnians, Vikings became Norse, and the random leftovers became the likes of the Tilean mercs and the warriors of Nippon. (In the same way as Runequest Broo became Beastmen and Judge Dredd minis were ported into Rogue Trader). They then got knitted into the Old World and the Empire was fleshed out. It’s what made the Warhammer setting stand out from the host of generic high fantasy settings that populated the 80s. It certain was a big part of the attraction for me.
Don’t get me wrong, I loved the setting. It was unique, in a way, in that rather than being a medieval/dark age fantasy (such as Tolkien) it was a Renaissance setting. It definitely had a stand out feature. It was unique, but was it original? Perhaps it was original in that it took a period in history and fantasised it, a period in history that perhaps hadn’t really been used in that way before. My point about innovation was purely related to the aesthetics of the miniatures of the forces of order, specifically Empire and Bretonnia. If you base something so strongly on history, can you really call it innovative? I liked them very much, but I wouldn’t go so far as to call them innovative.
Bloody hell, is this something genuinely positive from GW?
Can someone pass me a stool – I think I need to sit down
More Sigmarites…
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/downloadAttach/221708.page
you mean cawdorites? now we are slowly getting into plagiarism 😛 ironic
I think it’s a deliberate fake, possibly intended as satire
Oh yeah, it is probably a fake actually.
…those minis are available from Privateer Press, and are called “Sword knights.” It is more than probably fake, and clearly satirical.
LOL! I actually saw this picture and didn’t see the ” age of sigmar ” and thought these were some Warmachine models, and someone was mocking GW, showing how they’ve just copied Privateer Press.
LITTLE DID I KNOW.
They are PP minis, what is amusing though is the GW twitter posted this – does make the legitimacy of that seem questionable
I must admit, though. The models are nice. Very stylised and OTT…but nice.
Hmm.. I was hoping for a bit of GoT flair.
The Sigmarites don’t float my boat. Yet.
However, I will certainly get the Starterbox and give it a go..
It was never going to have GoT flare. Too easy to rip off – I think this change in direction is a deliberate move to prevent, or limit, 3rd parties making similar models.
At the end of the day it will be the Rules not the models that count.
Good luck with that.
But it’s sales of models that keeps companies like GW in business.
Rules are related to the quality of the game which is what gamers actually want (GAMES Workshop).
The game drives the purchase of multiple models which gives GW “high” profits. GW want you to buy 10 boxes of Space Marines instead of 1 – the only way they do this is via the actual game.
A healthy game is what sells models, it why GW got into making games
The more generic medieval knights are also well represented by historical games manufacturers, so I get the need to continue the more obvious Fantasy-theme.
Not being a Fantasy-player, I quite look forward to using my round based daemons to try out AoS. Especially if the rules are free and rather decent.
Too much 40k style (not bad), the creature mount it seems awesome. I think that all the different things that I read until now about it that remembers confrontation : age of ragnarok game…..I think….
Weird what GW have done with their fantasy battles game… Chaos models look just like dark eldar wracks with axes and Sygmar models are more blood angels than fantasy knights… even warmachine steampunk models look more fantasy styled to me than the sygmarines… I hope tha game itself turns out to be so good that makes me forget all that and buy the box, otherwise they have no lpace in my collection, I don’t even feel like painting those models. 🙁
I see many, many Adeptus Custodes conversions coming very soon. Its a big jump from where FB was before but I like the look of these minis, if the rumours of faster, skirmish style game play are true I could get into this.
Rumors last weekend that GW perhaps was moving away from high fantasy towards a more gritty fantasy setting, had me interested. Now these images of the new Sigmar army is what I would consider high, high fantasy, in fact almost up in space high fantasy.
I wonder if this new fantasy style is going to boost fantasy sales? Initially perhaps, but in the long run… I have my doubts.
I had the money ready to throw at them. But the models turn me off and no rule stet will be able to save this one for me anymore.
Those models really don’t represent a gritty look, and the old setting was damn gritty til 8th at least
And gone is all hype.
The Chaos stuff is ugly (again) and, well, them Sigmarites… not sure, but definitely no WOW factor at all to them.
well they had the coolest fantasy IP of all time to work with, guess they didnt want it anymore 😛 unless this can keep going in the same gritty wein as the old world.
Theory: Age of Sigmar is set 20 years after the End Times.
Sigmar, using that magical orb thing, went back to before the End Times kicked off in an attempt to foil Chaos. He created the Sigmar Marine order to fight against Chaos.
So everything is still in. No one who died is dead…
That’s what I would do anyway…
…didn’t that happen in ‘Dallas’?
Yes ha ha. But scrap that. What’s apparently more likely is the reason nearly everyone was killed off in the End Times is because in the new Warhammer World (which is pretty similar to the Warhammer map with some changes) peeps who died int he End Times have been resurrected, probably thanks to Sigmar. A few other worlds connected to the primary world (which was what all this bubble crap was about).
So there you go. GW didn’t screw everyone, if this is true. They just shifted the chess pieces around the board a little. All your fave characters are alive and well. Your army is alive and well – it’s just they died… but are resurrected.
Just seen those new paladin type warriors of sigmar, holy hell, very cool in a very ye olde space marine kinda way.
They look just like my blood angels (who are modelled with a Spartan theme), so I guess that at least it will be cheap for me to get started. ‘Counts as Fantasy’ for my Angels of Sparta!
hmmmm….. don’t like those at all.
fingers crossed there will be a few cool models to paint though.
Chaos.
I have to admit I’m dissapointed that they didn’t go grittier on the new models. I was rather looking forward to that. But considering it’s GW I should have guessed they would do not do that. Guess my paint job is gonna have to be the gritty part.
That said I have seen both the Army of Sigmar and the Chaos warriors and I have to say I kinda like them. I really want to get my hands on the Army of Sigmar models however. Granted they look like Space Marines but for some reason they just say paint us to me. I honestly want to see more of these guys but riding griffons and more of those weird dinosaur things (which I was not expecting and really like as well). One thing i’m wondering what is that guy at the very to of the picture? Mage? Priest?
As to the Chaos Warriors, expected but still looks cool. My brother is a Khorne fan and if we get this game he will be more then happy to play these guys.
But we will see what happens. I want to play it a lot at my local GW before I make the plunge to buy it. So we will see what happens.
On a more interesting note. I would love to see them make a sort of Daemon style army but with the 8 winds of magic as the powers the models are based on. But that’s me.
New models look technically well executed but for my taste unoriginal and uninspired borrowing from older ideas.
I will still the try the rules but if this is the direction they are going to need to be amazing rules, cause nothing else is holding interest
The chaos stuff is bearing some resemblance to the very blocky chaos infantry they released for khorne a few months back .. hope im wrong when a sharper pic is posted
I can sort of see how things are going now, looking at how the Starter Set is presented.
I think we’ve all read the Rules for Age of Sigmar. It’s called Warhammer 40,000 7th edition.
With, as was said from the start, a rank bonus for ranked models…
lets hope not, not played 40k since 7th – still plenty of great systems out there
GWho???
Lol
You realize this discussion on two blurry leaked pics for new minis for the minor game of GW has twice as many comments as the discussion where you can win an Operation Icestorm box for leaving a comment on a week’s worth of promo-content.
GWho all right 😉
That would be all those Fantasy fans who don’t exist because the game is dying (me included) 😛
The worst thing is there are serious rumours flying about various plastic kits for fantasy being canned 🙁 pretty funny considering they insist they are a miniatures company and not a games company smh… empire free company are named as one to go.
@igotskills do you have any links to support this? 🙁
I read that rumour as well, can’t remember where. I think it was probably on Bell of Lost Souls
Might call GW up and ask them flat out.
No just a personal one from an online acquaintance but he placed so much stock in his source that he is proceeding to buy as many night runners ,empire free company and other specific box sets as he can afford as quickly as possible.
I don’t quite get the funny.
Plenty of companies that insist they are a games(-first) company have discontinued older rules/games. Try ordering Infinity 1st or an early version of Warmachine directly from the company.
What can’t a miniatures(-first) company discontinue older miniatures.
Because there is nothing wrong with those models. They are not out of date but those game rules were either broken or badly produced. The minis could happily sell still (and be used for other game systems) GW don’t want to continue to contradict themselves they make bold statements.
But as you say there is no legal or real reason they can’t do whatever they want I just don’t like it :p
The empire free company was a great sprue – but now just go pick up northstars new adventurers kit
True, still waiting for decent third party skaven, I am too lazy to take on that myself also lizardmen that rival gw’s but mantic will try and their minis keep improving all the time:)
The models don’t match the old models. I have a Warhammer Fantasy Empire army, not a 40K Imperial army, they don’t look like they’re from the same game. Why would I want to field a patchwork looking army, especially @at Games Workshop prices?
Oh also, why did BoW tack the very real pictures onto the old WarbossSteve rumors that were just made up garbage? Kind of confusing for people who are just casually following this I’d imagine.
Yeh these pictures needed their own space with a new description.
Because we were right in the middle of the Boot Camp so needed to get this out quick. I will do some more clarification this week and do something dedicated to the models more in-depth.
Sorry for any confusion.
I read a really interesting piece, which came from “Hastings” (a long time rumour monger and one of the more accurate rumour mongers) about why existing players perhaps aren’t the target demographic. The question was asked,
“if AOS is skirmish only box game and full rules aren’t available, how many existing players are going to buy it? ……”
To which Hastings responded:
“And THIS is the reason that WFB as we knew it is gone, because it isn’t selling. So they either scrap it completely, or try something new in a fantasy setting. If you for one moment that success of this game means existing WFB players buy it then you are very mistaken, if only all existing WFB players buy it then it has failed already!!!!
How is this so difficult to understand? Why have so many people got “I am the world” ideas. GW know that their current WFB player base isn’t bringing the sales, they could not give a rats ass about the existing players, THIS IS A NEW PRODUCT INTENDED TO BRING IN NEW BUYERS!!!!! for the love of Pete! WFB has been dwindling in popularity for some time (mainly due to GWs stupidity), this is a total shakeup, they don’t want just to attract 100% of exisiting players! if you have 100 people playing a game/buying and it’s not making you enough money why would you re-launch wanting just the majority of those same poeple????? for a start you’d probably get a good deal less of the original 100 due to nostalgia/rage quit etc. maybe 50 out of the original 100 continue with the new game = failure. Now completely scrap the game = lose 100 people, rebrand, relaunch, shake up the very system right from it’s roots, make it barely recognisable, make it similar in ways to products that are doing ok, fair enough you’ll probably lose 80-90 of the original 100, BUT there’s at least a CHANCE that you might attract 500 people who just happen to think this is awesome!
And yes I know GWs marketing sucks, BUT not changing a failing system (sales wise) will lead to the whole thing going away, I think they have made a very bold move in doing what they’re doing (I just wish they’d at least try and communicate with their current customer base to make improvements).
Sorry that’s a bit ranty, but it’s late and I need coffee.”
It’s quite an interesting perspective on it, if not a little brutal towards existing players.
It’s not only interesting, it’s correct…
And also brutal, as the truth so often is.
None of that is logically sound at all, but that doesn’t mean it’s not what GW is doing.
I still would rather hold out and see what GW are up to. I’m not convinced GW is stupid enough to throw out the baby with the bath water.
It does makes sense – even if we’re not entirely happy about it. WFB wasn’t selling, so it needed a change. It wasn’t enough to just please the remaining players, they had to somehow attract new ones who would buy their miniatures. Could they have done it with the old setting? Maybe, but it was also too easy to buy 3rd party miniatures to play with that were cheaper. I think over the next few years, we will see much of the existing models phased out and replaced with new miniatures that better fit the look and feel of their new world.
I have some mixed feelings about this. on the one hand, I’m prepared to move with the times, see what Age of Sigmar is all about. On the other hand I see three armies sat on my shelf, all of which I had plans for, none of which will likely now be possible. I guess in these cases sometimes we just have to say c’est la vie.
As I said, the argument is not logically sound at all if your conclusion is “therefore, destroy entire Warhammer and create a new world, discontinue half the existing range”. I.e. “see that guy who has three armies? Punch him in the face”.
Which might be what they did. That’s not the same as adding more unique models to the existing fluff, adding new races, creating a GOOD ruleset, producing a skirmish game, making it easy to get into for under £100 etc etc. All of which can be done without throwing away the gold that GW built for 30 years.
It makes even less sense given Warhammer is about to appear in two big PC titles, opening up the world to people who never knew it existed … only for them to be given the bad news.
As the guy with the three armies, I understand your sentiments. But I’m not so sure they’re immediately discontinuing their current ranges – it will be a gradual phasing out.
Could success have been achieved without remodelling the whole world? Well the answer to that is the same as will the remodelling of the world be successful? The answer is “Maybe”. Remodelling the world just gives them the stronger IP which long term is better for GW.
As for Warhammer Total War, I’m sure GW knew about this when they gave Creative Assembly the license. And of course by the time Warhammer Total War is released, I think there will still be enough of the current warhammer range left as to be recognisable to any potential new recruits from the video game. I think the phase out will take several years, Warhammer Total War is due for release this year or early next year
I think not selling is a misnomer not providing the desired return on investments maybe more accurate.
Yes Dags. That. It’s not selling as well as GW would like (need?)
I agree 100% with Poosh here. Are we honestly suggesting dumping all the old players and finding new ones is even a good business strategy, let alone the best one available to them? A totally new style game, with no cache, no existing player base, that’s what’s going to result in more sales? Wolsung is that kind of game, is it currently outselling WFB? Relic Knights is that kind of game, is it currently outselling WFB? I don’t even think that’s what GW will be going for, that’s just Hastings’ argument, I can’t see it because the math does not work.
They’re not “dumping” anyone, they’re just not making existing players the target audience. It’s not like an edict has been issued banning existing players. Existing players can still play, still use their existing models (by all accounts, although I admit that’s rumour) and moving forward can still collect and buy Warhammer. Their current armies might not have a long term future in their current form, but they will have some kind of future.
Games Workshop are effectively saying “We’re going a different way now, feel free to follow”.
Warhammer jus got GRITTTTTTTY
This direction?
From what I can grasp now they did destroy the Old World but replaced it with something that is mostly the same with some minor changes. Characters and many people who died in the End Times have been resurrected/reborn – so named characters are alive again. Your armies make sense as they basically died and were brought back to life in the “new warhammer world” or maybe one of the bubble worlds which are connected together.
Maybe GW haven’t quite ruined everything as we thought….
It’s a high risk business move from a company that prides itself on no market research. However, I understand that to the company the game is not tenable so this is a last roll of the dice to save it. Now if that is due to the game loosing money or simply not bringing in the same as 40k is unknown.
@onepinman, well if current armies remain playable, and the current player bases doesn’t mind switching style of game then that is accurate. However as “We’re going a different way now, feel free to follow” for a number of the existing fans the different direction is a unappealing dark alley, and the only guarantee is your wallet will get lightened you may find not many choose too. That said given the alternative to GW management minds was scrap the game traditional warhammer was dead either way, this way you may get something.
I like this analysis.
I don’t disagree with the intent, I do disagree about new players I think it will side draw from 40k. Its more what GW does, and if your a fan great – those that aren’t its not going to reach.
The rules are the key I think, if they are tight, have a balance and present a depth of game play it could do well, and draw back and in players from other games.
Initially Warmachine started out “poaching” 40k and Fantasy players. But I don’t really think you could say that about it now. I think this new Warhammer thing will need time to bed down.
I got into warmachine, back in first ed because despite being a GW staffer I was finding the GW rules becoming a little stale – and had issues with the balance. That situation has not improved, and warmachine and now hordes have. Along with an explosion of great games.
In fact my first game of warmachine was in the store room of a GW after a shift.
To draw completely new players you either needed a new aesthetic (that’s a swing and a miss) or great rules. I think new warhammer will have a short time in which to do well or it will get hobbited.
Possibly. In this case time will tell whether or not it is on Age of Sigmar’s side.
@dags that is pretty much how I started out with Warmachine, and also playing Confrontation, during our “staff games nights”, aka, Heretics Convention.
I seriously doubt there will be balance, though. The way ahead for 40K is pay to win armies, has been for some time now. There will be new things (and army books) every month or two that will over power what people already have so if you want to win, you have to buy the newest game winning item. That’s not balance.
@briohmar I doubt it on all three fronts – but they are the criteria I am looking for, and not willing to write a game system off without trying it given I have minis for it. I may bypass others if I dislike the aesthetic, and if I was coming in new would bypass this.
At this point it’s looking like if you want to play the traditional ‘mass battle’ style fantasy you need to either continue playing 8th edition, or switch to something like Kings of War.
THANK YOU for spelling out what I have been trying to explain to so many old neckbeardy friends. This was bang on the money sir.
I think we need a weekender now on this!
I agree.
Only if there are actual Warhammer players on it, or at least people who know the current Fantasy game in detail.
Weekender based on a few hurried photos taken on a camera phone in a Polish loo? 🙂
Probably an English loo. That’s an English copy of the magazine.
Think the mags, including the English-language versions, are all printed abroad (at least they used to be).
GW have now got a secrecy and restricted area policy that puts other industries, such as MI5 the Nuclear industry, to shame. The Poles (or perhaps Chinese) seem to be the only ones with the balls, or perhaps willing to risk the lives of their families to three generations, to take these pictures.
Yay. It’s Blood Angels v Chaos Marines…
Think i’ll pass.
Yeah. Those Sigmarites do look lot like Blood Angels Honor Guard.
I wouldn’t make comparisons to Empire armies with those guys, they are a different animal. I’m thinking of them as fantasy space marines to the empires regulars, something like the difference between Space Marines and Astra Militarum.
I must admit – despite the extreme change from what has gone before – I rather like these models, even if the (admittedly kind of epic) Simarites look rather a lot like Blood Angels that got lost in the warp, ended up stranded on a feudal world, and wound up just deciding to go with the flow.
The models are pretty, and look like they will be a blast to paint. As for actual gameplay, we will have to wait to see how the rules are. If the rules genuinely are free on the internet, that will in many ways be an even bigger change to GW’s approach than the alterations to the fluff and models, and would represent a welcome move into the modern age by everyone’s favourite grouchy, get-off-my-lawn minded wargaming company.
I would also like to second @chesh suggestion – this will definitely call for a weekender once more information is available
The models in the picture do not match the supposed list of contents at the start of the article.
That is a lot of models for a single starter set, it that is what we are looking at.
I am really disappointed if we aren’t getting the gritty range of human races and kingdoms Warren discussed in XLBS. That sounded ace.
yep, I’d buy Warrens XLBS version of Warhammer any day!
Who sais we are not.
The contents of the rumored starter set was bonkers. No way that would be true.
Also Gw is trying to make a product line with a much stronger IP, so making african/viking/italian dudes wont be happening.
@nosebiter the need for a stronger IP is BS, its a over reaction to the chapterhouse case, if your the best mini company in the world why are you worrying about a 1 man band in a shed – yes the look is a very uniform GW look but you don’t see ice cream makers putting out only one flavour for a very good reason.
Personally the rumoured and the actual didn’t appeal.
Almost forgot about the price .. that will be interesting to see if they can price it to compete with ppp, or if they are still convinced they are premium collectors pieces.
Privateer Press is expensive. The new Rhuin jack is really expensive.
Warmahordes saving grace, money wise, has been its low modelcount.
PIP has gotten more expensive than when they first started, true. But GW is still more expensive, both in terms of individual models and how many you need to buy for a standard list.
To GW’s credit I think they use a superior plastic. Not a fan of PIP’s restic at all. So you could argue quality there. But in terms of price PIP still has a major advantage. Those army boxes are amazing deals.
Not sure which Rhulic jack you are talking about. The Colossus? It’s pricey, but it is also huuuuuggggeee. Not sure what the GW equivalent would be. The Imperial Knight maybe?
Rhuin – 43£ for a heavy jack.
http://www.waylandgames.co.uk/warjacks/21799-ruin
@nosebiter the hobby is expensive, but I think it is a bit premature to start saying PP are expensive relative to age of sigmar given we have no pricing on age of sigmar.
Also go to element games, cheaper for Ruin and in my experience better service http://elementgames.co.uk/wargames-and-miniatures/warmachine/privateer-press-new-releases/khador-heavy-warjack-ruin
Low model count yeah, thats something we all know by now .. what i meant was can they offer the same amount of models for the same or better price, and how many do you need for a fun game. As it is now GW is pricing their minis as if their games were aimed at a low model count.
I really like these models. The chaos models look like they fit in well with the ET minis.
And that denigryph mounted empire dude is just SO amazing.
The gold armor on the rest of the knights is abit OTT, but painted dark bronze or steel, they would look super.
I am stoked. Saving money now!
Is it a Demigryph? Looks like a Dragonhorse TM to me.
Kinda disappointed by what I’m seeing. I was hoping for something more akin to the gritty version Warren was talking about. What I’m seeing here is super over-the-top, almost sci-fi fantasy. Granted the pictures are far from crisp so I’ll still reserve judgement for when I see better pics. But not really feeling the look.
I don’t have anything against stylized miniatures. Hell I love Wrath of King models and those minis certainly have a particular look to them. But it looks like they are going in the same direction as their End Times models, really over-the-top, and that look doesn’t do much for me. Just a personal opinion.
While I understand that part of the change is to try and make their models different from cheaper third-party alternatives I’m afraid GW is chasing the philosopher’s stone here. It will take probably two years, tops, before we start seeing companies adjusting to the new look. In fact Mantic already has angels.
In the end it is going to come down to rules and cost. With the latter…well, I took a look at GW’s site for the first time in over a year to look at 40k. Too rich for my blood. If we are looking at about the same cost for this game (and we probably are) the rules will have to be something truly awesome. Otherwise, check me off in the “pass” column.
But it will be easier to claim copyright infringement on the new models than the old Empire State Troops and such. I think that’s what people mean when they say strengthening the IP.
Hi-Tech, Scibor, Kabuki…all three of these companies do Space-Marine knock-offs. And those are just the ones off the top of my head. As far as I know GW has not been able to go after them legally.
If a company does something similar to Chapter House, where they release a model called “Eldar Farseer” and it looks like an Eldar Farseer that’s one thing. But if a company releases something very similar to a Knight of Sigmar and instead calls it Knight of the God-King…it starts to enter a larger gray area.
Granted more effort needs to be put in to make a Knight of Sigmar knock-off than an Empire State Trooper. But if there’s money to be made someone will try.
IP Law is one big grey area. This is just about making something that is more unique to GW.
Well having something copyrighted is only useful if people want to buy it and you think you will be copied, jury still out on that
exactly right, the rules would have to be extraordinary
Ready cyclonic torpedos ! I order an Exterminatus on this new Warhammer World.
No, it was the Old World who got the Exterminatus order. 😉
Right now, everything I know of GW means I am expecting them to balls this up. It *could* be good, but probably won’t be. Once its been out a few weeks and I’ve heard how it plays from reputable independent sources – such as BoW – then I’ll believe. Till then … meh…
I’m not into GW bashing, but these look godawful and I don’t see them growing on me.
Thats all it takes to be called a basher im afraid 😉
Gee, fantasy space marines, descending from the God (King).
Wait and see, Raine…
Wait and see…
Don’t get too excited!
Rumors will be the death of you.
Unfortunately, I’ve never been a Chaos fan, so the starter rumor doesn’t really do anything for me. But the potential of free rules? Now there’s something that raises an eyebrow.
Look at the leaks of the new minis and you’ll understand why the round bases, it’s blood angels vs chaos cultists.
I was really looking forward to Age of Sigmar, but having seen these models I’m put off. If I wanted Space Marines I’d play 40k. It’s like they had a meeting at HQ to discuss ways to make Fantasy sell better, and someone said, if only we could make Space Marines part of fantasy.
My plan was to buy two starter sets, but after seeing those minis, no thanks. I’ll save my money. I’ll look around at the alternative fantasy skirmish games, I really don’t want Fantasy 40k. I was hoping for a good gritty fantasy game with models on par with the likes of Malifaux or Bushido for sculpt and aesthetic quality. Yet all we got is rehashed Space Marines, a little disappointed to be honest.
Well my other plan was to go back to playing LOTR..
Tbh though i think these look like heavily armoured knights .. isnt it actually space marines who many times look like knights? :p its known as 40fantasy here for a reason .. these sigmarites dont strike me as the main “empire” force either but rather seem to be a collection of warriors the same race as Sigmar himself .. just speculation of course.
Interesting! So, is this GW dropping easter eggs around giving sneak peaks of what’s to come, or are GW becoming master trolls dropping false rumours on their own website for the internet to latch onto and grind in the rumour mill?
Is that new terrain in the background too?
The whole board looks like a battle happening in between dimensions with floating gates.
It looks like they had a meeting and so bright spark said he space marines are selling like hot cakes, lets just port them into a fantasy setting.
While i like the space marine models in a sci fi setting for me these fantasy ones look god awful.
I was considering trying age of sigmar but if this is the style they are going for i will be picking up frostgrave instead.
Looks like I can finally stop caring about what this game might be. Those models are an exercise in utter disappointment. Why do the sigmarites look like bad versions of the Blood Angel sculpts with Cygnar color scheme? The chaos is just pathetic plain and simple
I dont normally nerd rage like this, but these models offer me no reason whatsoever to be interested in this “new” game. Would have been better off letting the game die out, and to support the old range from the webstore.
I agree. Unlike the island of blood these models do nothing for me. I even have the last 40k starter despite not playing 40k past that point because the models had some character and helped with the role play game.
The rules are going to have to be fantastic for me to look past this new stile. And they have destroyed the world that I have role played in and enjoyed since I was 11. Well I will just ignore this like a bad sequel to a great movie.
How ever I hope others enjoy it and have a good time with this new game.
Is it just me or does the leaked pictures not reflect the starting box? Maybe it’s not supposed to but the monster not a griffin, there are no state troopers with spears or muskets. So i’ll keep my judgement till later. I think the sculpts are very nice but they don’t fell very individual.
Ooooh close ups, can I revise my technically solid statement ….. so rules, good rules
The new pic of the Sigmars have finally got me off the fence as to whether I’ll play GW game again – no way, they are awful!
1x Empire General on Griffin 5x Knights of Sigmar 10x State Troops with Spears 10x State Troops with Muskets 1x Lord of Khorne on Daemonsteed 5x Chaos Knights 10x Chaos Warriors
Someone got this wrong by a margin for contents
I still get the same feeling looking at these that I got before. I want to paint the Sigmar guys. I would paint them differently but I still like them.
I also showed one of my friends these models who has never really liked GW stuff before (more of a Warmahordes player which I love as well), but when he looked at these models he told me GW finally had his attention. He never liked how generic Warhammer Fantasy was and I can’t completely blame him on this. I would have liked to see some more of the unique stuff Warhammer Fantasy had like Fimir. I was happy when Warhammer Forge released them but unfortunetly it didn’t take off like GW wanted I guess. But in the end I like the models but the rules must be good and solid before I buy any off these models to play it. That said might get a thing or two for painting fun.
A Warmahoard player would like these as the design makes them look they are from that game 🙂
I hate to say it but I think that is detrimental to even early PP sculpts latest stuff is nothing like that in my view at least. These remind me of as someone had said the one piece chronotopia bits from the early 90s – just a warmahordes players view
Yeah, I’ve painted thousands of Warmahordes minis, and these don’t match that aesthetic to me.
Warhammer 5k?
They look terrible. Looks like someone on the inside is deliberately trying to sabotage GW fantasy. Maybe there’s a bet going on, or someone just wants to say “I told you so! when this flops. These new mini’s have the same old cartoony look, and in comparison to what else is out there for fantasy, these aren’t even in the middle of the pack.
As for the free rules, I’ll believe that when I see it, but I’m interested to see if they have gone beyond their Yahtzee with miniatures mindset. It would be nice if they could put out rules with some meat to them.
Not enjoying that look for fantasy at all, Empire Marines not my cup of tea at all. Maybe the potential ‘new blood’ that GW hopes for will like it, but think they’ll definitely succeed at losing a big chunk of old fans
You know. I think this is just a new faction. OP humans. The normal humans will be in the meta we just haven’t got past the launch of this new faction yet.
A lot of people (me included) think these are a bit too similar to the sanguinary guard…..which are some of my favorite models by the way. I have just seem the snap fit instructions for the models and the heads are actually separate parts. Getting rid of the (death) masks and a more gritty paint scheme ie not gold will break the similarity somewhat. I think they will be great to paint.
I welcome the skirmish aspect of this game but I don’t know why the classic Fantasy setting had to be knocked on its head and replaced with space marines?
Didn’t GW go space marine mad last year and still failed in making substantial profit and gaining critical acclaim (Beasts of War awards)?
These models don’t look too bad if looked at in a vacuum. However GW is attaching the name Warhammer to it and these are not Warhammer to me. I wish that everyone who buys into this has fun, but they’ve destroyed all the lore I pored over in my childhood with the sweep of a hand and now they are going in this direction aesthetically (along with slightly absurd prices most likely) sorry I’m out. Off to Mantic, who want to sell me things that I want even if some of their models need work.
I called up GW guys, and Customer Services are basically in the dark as much as the rest of us when it comes to information and when models are being scrapped.
They said some store managers have retained discontinued Armies Books so ask and they may have a few copies left.
They said it would be good to send an email to Customer Services requesting that GW powers-that-be inform its customers of when a boxed set is being discontinued with no replacement so that we can have a bloody chance to buy up the box set instead of the warehouse etc throwing them away.
for me it looks like they start to dismantle GW, the stock will drop and someone like EA or Activison will buy it and thats it. In the future there will only be GW computer games…..warhammer total war here we go! and next in line will be call of duty space marines…..
So reading the little blurb down the it looks like GW will be creating a story that can continue on and not be stuck at 1 minute to midnight like 40k and fantasy use to be.
Chaos seems to have taken over the Mortal realms and the good side are now invading. This box set covers the opening of the Gates of Azyr (realm gates) in the Igneous Delta (This must be to connect the realms and let more good forces through). It mentions that this box is just the first chapter in this story so I’d imagine there will be further box set releases as the story continues. Having a living story that can roll along with every new release should be great. Similar to what PP do with their books.
I read that the rule book is only 4 pages long which I’m not to worried about. Trying to learn warhammer on your own with no one to show you is quite a task. If it’s easy enough I might even be able to get my wife to play. 🙂
Can I urge everyone to write a letter to GW (email their customer services) begging them to INFORM US with ample time of the discontinuation of their Fantasy miniature products so we have time to get more boxes of our favourite kits.
It’s not only disgusting and almost hateful to simply take these kits away – and indeed without any warning – but even worse is the irrationality of it, they’re losing money by throwing them in the bin.
“So reading the little blurb down the it looks like GW will be creating a story that can continue on and not be stuck at 1 minute to midnight like 40k and fantasy use to be.”
Which could have been easily achieved in the Old World without destroying a complex, intricate lore which has hundreds of novels and games complimenting it.
Why would I buy Age of Sigmar when I can by the actual games that they’ve copied apparently. Maybe the models, but at £18 a pop I’d wager, I’m doubtful I’ll go there…