Warhammer Age Of Sigmar Rumour Mill Goes Into Overdrive
June 17, 2015 by brennon
As we know Games Workshop are going to be revamping the Old World over the Summer of 2015 with the Age of Sigmar. Until a day or so ago all we had was the flyer to go on but now a post over on Dakka Dakka has had people wondering. You can read the post in full on the link but I'll break it down for you below...
BIG PINCH OF SALT WARNING
Age Of Sigmar Overview
The first thing that is looked at in detail is the make up of the rulebooks themselves and some of the background...
- Rulebook comes as three books (probably a Limited Edition version) - Rules, Fluff/Background, Novel
- Game plays at around the 50 model mark or lower - Emphasis on single heroes rather than large units
- Round Bases for ALL models although they allow 'Legacy' (square) and dioramas from the previous edition
- Compendium Book in set comes with Character Stat Cards for all units rather than traditional rulebook flipping
- Complete revamp of the rules - focus on it being fast paced and compact action
- No new photos in the book in favour of artwork
- All armies are accounted for but some more than others. Beastmen, Ogres and Lizardman all taking a back seat
- High Fantasy style armour with an emphasis on the more 'Ancient' look instead of the Germanic Medieval style we've seen from the Empire
Now, here is where I take a few issues with how this is coming across. There might well be some truth to all of this but some things do sound a little implausible. The first of these is character cards for everything including Warhammer Forge models (check out the link for more on that).
I can't see this being a possibility although if they have done it then that's a rather big thing from Games Workshop and Forge World going forward.
Another of the points to pick up on would be the number of models needed to play. Interestingly it seems like it's keeping to a grander scale than we had first anticipated but still retains the singular nature of skirmish based gameplay where the models act as individuals rather than as a larger unit.
Army Building & New Rules
The next area that the post looked at was how Armies are built and work in the new edition...
- ONE ruleset so not one for large scale battles and one for Skirmish. Age of Sigmar IS the new rules
- The profile breaks down as Melee, Range, Might, Armour, Initiative, Resolve and Wounds. Values range from 1 to 6 with lower being better
- Still retains the turn structure of past Games Workshop games with one player doing all of their actions followed by the opponent
- Players roll against one another (I assume at the same time?) with Melee Vs Initiative and Might Vs Armour given as examples
- Melee fought together with the opponent. Winner can choose to fight another round of combat until one side is wiped out or disengage
- No morale or combat resolution mechanic (ditched for being too clunky?)
- Models regain all lost wounds at the end of the phase. Pushing your luck mechanics added into the game in effect?
- Magic Spells are one use affairs. Once you have used them they are discarded from the game
- Magic is based on different pantheons that can be mixed together (Morr and Nagash for example)
- Blessings can be bestowed on particular units
- Units have single costs as before but you cannot build a new unit of the same type until the other has been completely put to strength.
- Unit sizes ranged from 1 - 3 to 3- 15 (largest the poster had seen)
- No 'Champions' to buy but instead a number of models are automatically upgraded to that status
- Rules for all kinds of magical weapons, monsters, siege weapons and such plus a large section on terrain and scenarios
It really does sound like Warhammer would have been turned complete on it's head with these rules. The old stat line is abolished completely and instead replaced with something new entirely which seems to have a bit more flow to it (from what we know anyway).
I'm not sure whether or not I believe that they'd scrap that stat line that has become a staple of their brand across their games but if they are really going to try and reinvent the game then it makes sense.
Morale and Combat Resolution being dropped is another big swing in favour of the quick and easy play instead of the old way which could be very stilted. I like the push your luck aspect of the combat where you have to trust to your heroes to beat their foes or they will just bounce back and refresh for the next charge.
This also puts an additional focus on there being less clutter on the battlefield. No having to mark wounds and the like. This works in tandem with the way the armies are made up consisting of smaller units with more Champions meaning this isn't too much of a problem.
The Background
Of course with this comes a change to the world itself too...
- Set on the world of Regalia which mimics the look and feel of the old Old World
- Hundreds of Human Kingdoms in clans/tribes worshiping the Exoatl (Old Ones)
- Sigmar arrives and many turn to worshiping him alongside the worship of Chaos Gods and more
- Most tribes made up of many different factions and races including what we'd know as Cathay and Araby
- Sigmar's new 'Empire' retains the Witch Hunters, Zealots, an 'Emperor' but the look of their army is more 'Ancient' than before
- No black powder weapons apart from what the Dwarfs give them
- Dawikorr (Dwarfs) still exist but stay within Karak Korr guarding the Soul Mill
- Inneadim (Elves) live apart from the Humans across the sea
- The Dawikorr allied themselves with Sigmar
- The Inneadim under Araloth have enclaves in Regalia looking for the ancient Archelves
- More on them being a darker force than before with a focus towards their Death God Ynnead
- Skaven & Dawikorr use black powder but Skaven technology powered by ancient magic
- Chaos has no Northern presence but instead exists throughout society in pockets of resistance and cults
- Daemons/Undead can be summoned by everyone, not just Chaos/Undead
- Waaghkin replace the Orcs. They serve the Exoatl and have changed in appearance with looks that have them appearing 'Turtle' like, thin, plus female versions too.
- Subfaction of Orcs worship Grimgor and are more like their previous incarnation
- Vampires are now Necrarchs and Nehekhara has a more Babylonian and vibrant feel to it compared to the wasteland it previously was
- Lizardmen still exist but are relegated to the guardians of the North and South Pole
- Beastmen still exist but in the same fractured sense as the rest of Chaos
- Mages can open magical portals to other realms
Yep, it all sounds very crazy. There is enough of the old Warhammer there it seems to keep people happy but then a heavy dollop of the new 'look'. What I'm really interested in seeing is how the new look Orcs turn out as they sound like one of the most interesting changes.
Of course it's also good to see that my own Dwarfs are going to be catered too and kept alive in some form!
The Age Of Sigmar Boxed Set
This brings me onto the next big part of the 'reveal' which is that this person has had a look at what they think is going to be in the main boxed set for the game. The contents are below...
Missionary Force
- 3x Knights Of The Order Of Sigmar's Blood (Roman looking, Leather/Chainmail Armour, Kite Shields, Female Champion)
- 2x Vigilant (Male & Female - leather cloaks with Tricorn Hats and double Hand Crossbows)
- A Handful of Foot Knights in Heavy Armour with different Weapons and Cloaks - Wearing Eagle Shaped Helmets
- Hooded Chainmail Wearing Woman with Hammer
- A Bulldog (???)
- Standard Bearer (Stripped down with chains hooked into his flesh)
- Arabic looking Soldier with Twin Scimitars and Heavy Armour
- Man In Rags with Flaming Chain
Chaos Cult
- 2x Outriders (Female Chaos Barbarians)
- 5x Berserkers (African looking, both Male and Female, with an assortment of weapons)
- 3x Priestesses (Flowing Robes with Sacrificial Daggers)
- 2x Armoured Harpies
- 5x 'Chaos Warriors'
- Leader model in Chaos Dwarf style armour riding a Daemonwolf/Juggernaut type creature
- More 'Viking' Infantry (Like Marauders?)
The other overriding key note here was that all of the models were very individual looking. It's certainly an interesting set of models that appears to take a little bit of a step away from the old armies you'd have expected.
I particularly like not only the sound of the new 'Empire' force but also that both it and the Chaos Cult contain a lot of female miniatures too. The Human force is also incredibly multicultural sounding and the Chaos Cult has a nice mix of disparate individuals which would make sense for something as warped as a Cult.
I'm really looking forward to seeing how this turns out and I'm fairly sure that regardless of whether or not this is the set we get in the end I'm going to be picking up the new Age of Sigmar to give it a go.
As always, a BIG pinch of salt with this but let us know what you think of the rumours below.
Let us know!
"BIG PINCH OF SALT WARNING..."
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"The other overriding key note here was that all of the models were very individual looking..."
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Very…..interesting. I have no idea if i’m going to like it or not, but I will give it a shot.
I love a good rumour but like Brennon says, a pinch of salt is most definitely needed on this.
Whatever happens I do hope it breathes some life into fantasy.
After spending a lot of money on 8th edition I am really not looking forward to this change. No doubt the game will encourage and recruit new players and collectors but I still get the impression that GW are moving further away from what attracted me to the hobby 27 years ago, and this saddens me.
I think some of these mentioned possible changes will be one step too far for me and I will just resort to painting my models.
No doubt my local hobby store will continue to run 8th Ed for as long as they can, but without new models, fluff and what-not for this well-trodden formula I fear this appears to be the beginning of the end
Guess I can sell of all the movement trays I have just purchased then… 🙁
You might not have to sell all the big stuff. As well as these rumours there has also been talk of this actually just being a stop gap between 8th and 9th and that there will be a larger scale game coming after this where you can use your skirmishing forces in bigger battles.
I’m certainly going to keep playing 8th with my ever growing Dwarf army regardless of the changes and then probably pick this up as well.
BoW Ben
When does it drop? Is it later this month?
Age of Sigmar is July 4th (Pre-Orders) followed by the release on the 11th of July. Although apparently we might get a bit of a heads up not this week’s White Dwarf but the one after about what is happening…
I would hope with something like this we would have seen more teasers to get people excited but hey – not GW’s style.
BoW Ben
@brennon sadly the much needed detail will probably be forgone in favour of vague hype written for the target market 12 year olds. Which lets face it is where GW needs this to be a hit.
Or they need to re-evaluate the target audience..
Kings of War
Is they had any minis i actually liked, then yes.
But sadly no.
who said anything about buying the minis, you can play the game with your old games workshop stuff. In fact lists are being written up for GW armies.
Unlike GW there also aren’t restrictions on what models you use, even in tournaments. Liking models is subjective, but don’t write off the actual ruleset based on that. Lots of people use their GW stuff (and almost every other manufacturer you can think of to boot).
Agreed!!
One step too far for me as well.
I have been loyally following Warhammer Fantasy and 40k since 1989. I model now and mainly stick to Games Workshop.
Games Workshop has forced us to live in the Age of Sigmar. Well, I really, really hope the figures are great. Since the Dwarfs are basically banished to Everpeak, bringing back legendary heros or even a Grungni, Grimnir or Valaya figure would make this swill bearable.
Disbelieve to be honest.
Wager Age of Sigmar is a stand alone game. Suspect the above rumours are confused between Sigmar and Warhammer 9th. Age of Sigmar will be a quick pick up designed to get you addicted.
Fully expect the new Warhammer 9th rules to be as close as possible to 40K.
I apologise for what I am about to say as it may come across as vitriol, that is not my intention. However, this looks horrific. They’ve just wrecked 32 years of back story. I don’t see the point in playing this anymore; as far as I’m concerned it’s not Warhammer, its just some skirmish game set in a knock off tolkien world.
I think we should wait and see. I don’t believe they’re going to discard their entire miniature range in any manner. Warhammer 9th will be Warhammer Unbound, trust – with a heavy focus on magic and all the things that made Warhammer 8th terrible.
Maybe Age of Sigmar will just be a story about how Sigmar reset the Warhammer world to the moments prior to the End Times and how it was averted.
Yeah I agree. Best to wait and see what they actually produce and how much of these rumours are true. My main issue I took is with the possible rewrite of the backstory and lore; I just don’t see the point in it, commercially or practically.
Well the backstory will still exist in some fashion – just as an additional ‘Time of Legend’ on top of the old one. That stuff still happened, this is the future of the same timeline so it’s all canon etc.
That’s a punch in the face if there ever was one though – because we’re no longer part of that time line and nearly all our armies are purpose built to FIT into that fluff. We’re no longer allowed to affect the future because we’re playing in the past… Another great thing GW may well take away from us.
I agree with what you’re saying, but it’s kind of like going and playing 4th edition Warhammer, in the sense that this isn’t what ‘it’ is anymore. If what has been written in the article is true, then it’s not the game I fell in love with. It’s like watching a bad sequel to a movie you love.
Yeah the best thing about Wahammer was the fluff and allowing you to mix time periods into a single fantasy game.
…So I suppose it only makes sense that GW would jettison it all.
I think that will still exist, they’re not going to expect Empire players to bin their entire army just because they wound the clock back 1000 years (in real world history terms). There will be some explanation for those who need one.
I admire your ability to keep the dream alive though fear for the results
…you hope!
Arent most fantasy games a Tolkien World knockoff in some way or another
Most (but not all) modern high fantasy is inspired or derived at least in part from Tolkien, because his work defined the genre.
Personally I would have said Conan and Fafhrd and the Gray Mouser had a bigger influence when it came to the style and settings of most games
A crappy knock off of Tolkien is right.
It’s not Warhammer, its just a crappy B movie, but on tabletop.
I will continue to follow and model from the sidelines, hoping that through the new “magic portals” they can pull some of the old heros and gods back into play.
Actually, I am working on an Aenarion conversion right now.
I can only hope the steam from the Games Workshop turd smells like roses!!
Good post
The Age of Sigmar is the 9th edition, the hope and belief that it is a stand alone product from Warhammer 9th is just wishful thinking. I now believe this realignment of the Warhammer World was a reason other than sales WHFRP 3rd was discontinued without any word in regards to a 4th edition. I am guess if FFG keeps the GW license to produce a RPG, we will see an Age of Sigmar Beta RPG announced next year.
To be fair @trollsplitter while I would not say WFRP 3rd ed was a bad game it was not popular and an un-necessary change off of the back of the very good 2nd. I think that there maybe more going on with the ffg/GW relationship as well.
I stopped playing Fantasy before 3rd ed 40k landed (sorry no idea when that catastrophe occurred) so have been quite intrigued by the rumours I keep hearing about 9th ed.
I like the smaller scale with 50 figs max. I can see both promise and the potential for horror (not in a good way) with the above rumours and from what else I’ve read in other posts etc. In the end will just have to wait and see.
I can understand why they want to move away from the generic aspects of the game, as Fantasy did start off as a LOTR knock-off; I used to have an old WD with an article describing a Warhammer Dwarf kingdom in a lone mountain…sounds a little familiar. 😀
I am interested to see how they design the new minis etc to nail down their own IP. But, as always I suspect they will just end up mucking it up (at least IMHO).
Also sounds like they are bringing back a grittier darker aesthetic closer to what was in 3rd edition.
For GW that means painting everything black!
Except skin…
I have scanned these, and I think to take a positive from it the complete rules revamped being recognised as necessary for the change of scale is re-assuring.
However, I have zero anticipation for the game the new background may be copyrightable but it is if as rumoured insipid and dull a breed of fantasy for which I have no love nor interest.
So the game will stand or fall as what i would deem a ‘skirmish’ game in a highly competitive market on merit of the rules alone for me. When I am next passing a GW I will try get a demo, and I will give it a fair trial but the auto buy and favourable mindset is gone.
Lets hope for a stellar game and that if it doesn’t appeal to the existing players that it achieve what GW want or I fear the space marine shop maybe incoming and that will not be the land of milk and honey some think it will be.
Right time to find me some mass battles rules (Please don’t suggest KoW its a good system just not for me)
Well, it looks like everyone will just use their 8th and earlier edition models for use with Kings of War 2.
Far better system. Alot more fun. No need to spend anymore money on GW when they just discontinue or overcharge for the hobby.
Hard to tell if it’s a better system since the new Herohammer hasn’t been relesed yet. 😉
Sounds like on big IP rebranding exercise to me…
That is a big part of it yes. But also building a game that will attract new players, and be a game for the modern times.
In my opinion this is more GW trying a rebirth to make money. Did we wanted to leave a mass battle game to play skirmish? During these years the number of troops kept on growing…now, to skirmish. Come on! Probably the new formula will be a few very expensive miniatures. I have abandoned hope, and will not spend a penny. If a free manual comes out, I will check what is all this about.
GW give out free rules? you sir have a career waiting for you in comedy
Insert sound of snare drum!
😀 😀 :D. You are right.
Good point – how come Wacoshop don’t release anything as a download. Almost every other games company release rules for free for you to have a look at.
Beccause GW has more haters and releasing early could be a potential PR disaster. Look at some of the reactions on here about something they haven’t even read.
I actually think it because GW don’t have faith in their own products, and would rather you buy before you try. Also the word free is probably punishable by execution in Kirby’s earshot
Which given the rules apparently exist to sell models is completely backwards thinking. They also seem to be of the opinion if war gamers can get the rules free they won’t buy them. I can think of many companies that have proved that wrong.
If GW didn’t have faith in their products, they wouldn’t make them – no company would.
The only reason I don’t play fantasy is because it’s too much with the models and rules. This streamline of the rules and low model count is definitely influencing me to try Age of Sigmar
Honestly, even if only half the rumors are close to being true, this whole thing with 9th lost me back at the constant use of the word skirmish. I’m sick to death of everything turning into a skirmish game. Truely I am. All usually in the name of making games more easy and affordable, instead of leaving some of them as investment hobbies.
I’m sure the game won’t be terrible, but, no skirmish game will replace a game of epic warfare in my book. Very sad about this whole thing.
Well said! Skirmish game as a WHFB sub-game, fine, but don’t 40k it please!
There is something quite fantastic about masses of painted mini’s, ranked up and ready for combat and Mordheim (AFAIK) was pretty much that, and that didn’t quite work out.
I agree! But at 15 or 10mm scale. My personal opinion is that 28mm isn’t suitable for anything more than skirmish or, at the most, having a few smaller squads/groups of soldiers. I always liked the fluff and aesthetic of WHFB but the insanse amount of miniatures to buy (WHFB is expensive as fuck) and then paint (I already have a job…a paying job, don’t need one more) always put me off. I also never liked having a boatload of ranked up minis being carted around in trays. I believe WHFB, at least in an incarnation where it’s abot massive armies clashing, would be effing superb in a smaller scale than 28mm.
Well did have Headmaster but sadly didn’t decide to support it properly
Headmaster?…stupid tablet!…I meant Warmaster
I think to be successful, WHFB needs to be able to do both – it needs to be as playable at 500 – 1000 points as it is at 2000+ points. My brother recently started a Vampire counts army, try playing them at 1000 points when the best general you can legally afford is a L1 Necromancer.
I think that for WFB to be successful it needs to have a low entry point with regards to models, but still encourage continual purchases. That doesn’t have to mean scaling the game up as the purchases go up. In fact, given that you want to keep the entry point low for everyone, it would be better if the game didn’t scale up as you went as that would make it harder for new and casual players. You want to keep the model count low so future purchases should be based around offering variation rather than addition.
The idea of focusing a game around “casual” and new players is not a road to a successful game. There are also plenty of games out there that offer easy to start play for those looking to enjoy quick easy style gaming.
Miniatures gaming is much more hobby and time focused, whether it’s skirmish or not, and WHF was a clear example of this and alienating years of hobbiest to cater to gamers who spend less money and time on your game from the get go is gonna send WHF down the same path as LOTR.
I have also played plenty of low point fantasy games as easy ways to start a new force and they are just as fun as the larger epic battles. Hence why the starter boxes where there. Just because you can’t power game with lv 4 Dragon riding mages and 40+ horde units doesn’t make the game not fun.
The starter boxes are fun, up to a point. But there are some armies that just don’t perform well at low points (Vampire Counts being a prime example) because they’re reliant on powerful, high point units which means beginners are tied to the two armies in the starter box and starting a new army means either choosing from a limited selection or a big outlay to buy 2000 points in one go.
A game that works at different scales and lets you build big collections that you can play as massive hordes or small warbands is going to be a winner especially if that game allows you to combine some of your warbands together, regardless of race, to make a big horde!
Couldn’t disagree more. I’m not talking quick and easy gaming (such as X-Wing), I’m talking about a game like Warmachine. That scales up on variation rather than addition, which makes it much easier for new players to get into than WFB, but still offers the full hobby and gaming experience and incentivises continuing purchases. That it has surpassed WFB in sales is testament to the success of the business model.
What Ben said. I also think Games Workshop can do it because they already have. Warhammer 40k can be played at 500 points and scales up into the the tens of thousands of points with the Apocalypse expansion. Also, the new Unbound army lists mean people can just buy the models they like instead of being tied to specific lists and races.
This isn’t a bad model to work on as it encourages collection as well as play. Now I don’t necessarily want to see WFB become 40k with fantasy miniatures but a game where I can play a Skirmish of marauding warbands with say 20 individuals which also scales upp to support massive armies in “classical” formations is what I hope Games Workshop are aiming at. I don’t know if that’s like Warmachines as I’ve never played it and most of the people I know who play it seem to do so on a smaller scale to most WFB games.
@redben, WHF has suffered and fallen behind most miniatures games because of the lack of support, content and official event/tournament scene. When working for the company I never had any issue getting new players into the game despite the size and amount of time needed.
Press gives their players Steam Rollers, Lock n’Loads with special ed. minis, and tons of expansions with new models to play with. Aside from a crappy release schedule and a repetitive game style, they out support WHF, has nothing to do with the size of the game.
Variation is not hard to achieve in a game where strategy is emphasized over combo tactics. Adding models to a pre-existing unit, or purchasing a unit of the same type changes the flow of the game.
Games workshop have variety, I don’t think that there can be much argument that they have, at present, the biggest miniatures ranges available. Even their 3rd game system, Lord of the Rings, dwarfs most companies. Warhammer has a terrific range of models but the rules themselves don’t currently support variety very well in that if I collect High Elves, I kind of have to buy High Elves. The allies rules aren’t great. 40k on the otherhand, with it’s new Unbound rules, really does encourage variety. GW have basically given the go ahead to buy any models you like and cobble them together into an army and the rules support it. The rumours the Brennon posted seem to indicate something similar for Warhammer where you caan create a force of mixed factions, possibly representing temporary alliances between warring clans. It also hints at something similar to listed armies when it says that Sigmar’s Empire allows only humans. That sounds like a positive move to me.
And while PP might support Warmachine better than GW support WFB (and I’m not disputing that as WFB’s poor performance agains PP’s fantasy games support that statement), I’m fairly sure that this is an attempt by GW to make the warhammer game more appealing, more accessible and more supportable. I also think it may take several years to achieve if the changes are even half as radical as those described because it will, for all intents and purposes, be brand new game and will need time to establish itself.
@onlyonepinman, I do agree with most of what you say there. I guess in a nut shell I just think they are choosing the wrong audience to try to appeal to with these changes, but time will prove.
I agree with where you identify GW as lacking in comparison to PP. It’s an area in the past they didn’t need to put much effort into but now others are doing it they’re getting left behind. That said, a big part of the reason that PP have been successful at doing it is because of the way you buy into their game. Even at a competitive level, there are regular battle box tournaments and journeymen leagues which capitalise on the low entry point of the game to get people involved from the get go. Then at the other end, their variation approach to list building means veteran players are never short of ongoing purchases. Whilst WFB has some variation, it pales in comparison with WM and is well short of where it needs to be for that model to work.
Absolutely. Even after someone has been involved in the hobby for several years, they should still be able to play the “small game” to ensure that new players are never faced with the same problems they are now of having to buy a lot of models to start with. Personally, I’m not overly bothered about the scaled up mass battles and it’s not because I don’t like them, it’s a time thing. I don’t have time to paint massive armies (it’s taken me over 2 years to paint 1500 points of Elves) and I don’t have time to play huge games. Games that last an hour are perfect for my circumstances at the moment and i’ve also found that small scale games actually suit my hobby balance much better. I can spend the time painting the models to a standard I am happy with (because I enjoy painting more than gaming) because I only need to build a small force. However because I am a painter I will always be interested in buying new models to paint but I can buy them at a rate I am happy painting them at. I recently took a step into Infinity which is when I realised that skirmish games are perfect for me and I hope that there is an element of that to the new Warhammer.
@chaosdruid I think its a risky move, moving from a largely unchallenged area to a pack market that has some really good rules systems. However, I can see point fo entry was two high something a’la realms of chaos would be better.
Agreed. They do indeed run the risk of people saying “We already have 8 systems like that, why bother?”
It’s a largely unchallenged market but it’s also a shrinking market. I sometimes wonder if they’re using WFB as a Guinea Pig, seeing how their fan base and the market responds to a new set of rules. They don’t have much to lose with WFB and if it fails, will they just park their fantasy game? Or if it’s successful, could we see changes to 40k as well?
One thing I will say about both 40k and WFB is their rules feel somewhat outdated, especially I Go You Go, when you compare it many of the more recent systems. It’s very easy to lose interest in a game when your opponents turn takes 45 minutes!
I hope so! 40K can still be a lot of fun, but that’s far more down to the models, the background and the people I can play with than the rules. There are so many more interesting rules systems available these days, and I wish GW would radically redisign 40K – although I know it would likely be unpopular.
That said, a lot of what GW has done with the 40K rules in recent years doesn’t make me think they’re going in the direction I’d like them to go. It will be very interesting to see what WFB will become!
Kings of War is still allowing very large armies, so not everything is turning to skirmish.
Will wait and see.. I’d prefer a skirmish game mainly cause I don’t have the time to paint large armies any more nor the room to store them.
“Game plays at around the 50 model mark or lower”
One unit? 😉
I’ve played several perfectly great games of Warhammer with 50-60 models aside….
Yeah, I play ogres too! 😉
Nope! Tomb Kings! Small 500 point battles can be just as fun, and thrilling. What’s the big deal!
I’ve a pile of grey Empire that I never got around to complete making up – far too many it sounds for these rules, however:
– I suspect legacy rulesets and army lists will remain popular in clubs for a while yet
– A lighter weight ruleset would be more attractive, I could always create several ‘factions’ from the current big mass?
– wtf do I do with 6000 points of Beastmen – they were nerfed in the last couple of editions and now taking a back seat?
Melt your beastmen into a large metal pot then pour it into your hands. As your fingers are searing in agony contemplate your life choices, mainly, why you chose beastmen. Then scrape off the dried plastic/skin with a (GW brand) hobby knife.
Trade the beastmen over my way, that’s a start, I’ve made highly effective armies from the current book, as well as the previous. I have made a personal hobby out of showing people how terrifying that army can be with out even running cheese.
Tbh I wasn’t a regular enough player to get good enough with a specialist army like Beastmen to get through the ranged fire before cc, that’s why I was looking at a general army like Empire.
I bought them ‘cos I looked the idea and look of them and have enjoyed hobbying them (still not all finished). They still look good in their display cabinet!
They do take some love and time. If I tried to count the number of times I bought into beastmen because of how cool they look and their background I am sure I would realize how little life I had a few years back.
Ironic to say, most of them tend to end up in other people/store’s display cases. Pretty sure my 4000pt plague themed one is still in the one at my local shop.
This checklist sounds a lot like Warhammer being converted to the LOTR rules set, and the clock turned back to the early age of mankind in the Old World. Interesting, if true.
I don’t buy it. Tons of rumors with a good track history of being reasonably accurate have details that have been consistent with other ‘leaks’ for some time now and this is a radical departure from those rumors. Yes, they are ALL rumors, but this isn’t just a 180 from what we’ve been hearing, its like a 720! I’m thinking this is either misinformation, or someone making stuff up. I wouldn’t take just a pinch, but a whole mound of salt on this one. As for opinion, I don’t mind, and certainly expect, some changes, but this is a completely different game. It sounds more like Warmahordes than Warhammer to me. I don’t think GW is going that far afield and make changes that complement competition. I’d expect to see some inclusion of mechanics that have been popular in other systems, but not such a seemingly emulation as this list suggests.
Y’know what kind of skirmish game I’d like to see ‘workshop produce? A game where you select a few models (from the pre-endtimes canon of course) and then you use this force to act out skirmishes in a chaos infested city. You could gain xp and rank up the individuals. Now, only if GW would produce THAT skirmish game, I’m sure that’s something everyone can want.
Oh wait.
Sorry Mordheim.
*Weeps into tatty old rulebook*
Personally I quite like the 16th century theme of the current Old World but I’m definitely looking forward to seeing the new miniatures, see what they’ve come up with.
As for the rules, well as someone who started collecting Bretonnians back in 2009 only to see them hit with the nerf stick in 8th and then effectively shelved I don’t see how the rules for 9th could really be any worse, if anything they might be an opportunity to mould my existing models into a different force entirely and/or start something new.
I’m haven’t played a GW game for many years now, but I will be curious to see if the visual change to the orcs happens and if so what it looks like.
Game wise depending on the price point I would possibly be inclined to take a look.
….yeah, but just a ‘look’.
I’m not a Fantasy player and has only a casual knowledge of the 8th edition rules, but I just can’t belive GW would do such big changes.
However ff these these rumors will prove to be true, then I think Mantic had a great sense of remaking it’s King of War ruleset, because it is the only up and coming rival when it comes to mass fantasy battles. I’m sure they will profit the most from the Age of Sigmar ruleset.
Except most of their miniatures are below average and the rules are somewhat basic. It’s a fun game but for different reasons to WFB – it’s simple and quick but it lacks depth.
The miniatures need some serious work. They’re getting better but I was incredibly disappointed with the Dwarves. They’re not even as good as the old Skull Pass Dwarfs, let alone the more recent kits.
The Basileans look good in the pictures but I’d have to see the kits
Don’t mistake lack of rules for lack of depth. Complexity =/= depth. In fact, complexity and lots of rules can just mean you play the rules and not the game. Neither rules system is for me. In the case of WFB 8th ed, it’s partly because the game is a bloated mess where rules exploitation takes the place of strategy. For KoW, it’s partly because the game essentially mass fantasy battle chess, and I can’t stand chess lol. But I do not find WFB 8th ed has more depth or more strategy than KoW.
No interest in WFB,and a little bit of an interest in KOW. But over the years I have played some excellent rules covering all genres that can fit on one or two sides of an A4 sheet.
What I meant was that Warhammer has more options available when building your armies which in theory should provide more tactical options. That’s not my experience of playing it but in theory it should be the case. I’m not trying to pull either rule-set apart or defend either rules set. My point is simply that Kings of War is not the “saviour” that embittered warhammer fans have been praying for. It’s just a different set of rules with a different set of flaws.
That is far enough to be honest lots of options for units usually put me off a system.some of the best fantasy games I have played are historical rules with fantasy add ons
I like the idea of lots of different units, I don’t like feeling as though I have to have specific units. Corvus Belli now have a massive catalogue of Infinity miniatures but you don’t need to have all of them because you can’t field all of them in one game any way.
Warhammer doesn’t have more ‘options’ it just has more rules!
It does. It has tonnes more options; more units, more characters, a proper magic system, more magic items.
Mind you I haven’t seen KoW 2 so maybe it’s changed.
@onepinman army selection is not tactical, there should be strategic decisions – balanced, skewed to one style of play or another etc but if the only depth is in magic items and wargear then the core game has some inherent failings.
I agree with regard to kings of war, although I think it is a perfectly fine system, it just doesn’t play in a manner I enjoy. I would however say it has less flaws that 8th ed as a ruleset, although I prefer to play 8th ed. In truth I would rather play something different but that seems to be a weird amalgam I am going to have to create.
They were examples, not an exhaustive list. I was trying to point out that Kings of War, while simple, quick and fun lacks some of the strategic/tactical options (call them what you will) of Warhammer to make a force play differently. For a lot of people, building the actual army list is part of the game and to a certain extent I agree with that (it’s no different to a sports coach choosing his team before each match). For anyone who enjoys that aspect of the game Kings of War probably isn’t the game for them; unless v2 adds more detail of course, like I said I’ve not had the privilege of reading the version 2 rules yet.
I haven’t said it is a perfect replacement that covers everything GW is going to leave behind (if the rumours turn out to be true, however I still don’T think it will) :). I’ve just said that KoW is the most well known up and coming mass fantasy battle rules, which is right now in the process of releasing a second edition with tweaked rules and much more options added. Also please note, that I’m neither a KoW (or fantasy) player, nor a Mantic fanboy, I just wanted to point out that Mantic’s timing is quite good and they could definitely profit if GW would take a step back from mass fantasy battles.
While I agree that their earlier miniature editions (except the undead which were super) was somewhat more on the average side, I am not with you about the rules. These are superior in tactical depth to anything I have played in my 25y career as a miniture player. In KoW maneouvering is most important as it should be in a good game. Its a brain-vs-brain game and not a dice-vs-dice or money-vs-money game like WFB.
I’m just going to be waiting on eBay for all the rage quitters to sell their minis. Like they did at the end of 7th edition. 🙂
Oh yeah! Cash in mate
I don’t believe any of this at all. Alot of the entries contradict each other and make no sense.
I really am looking forward to seeing the new miniatures.
They could potentially drag me back into WHF after a six year hiatus.
But tbh reading the background story is a bit like a forced psychedelic experience.
Not sure I will like the ‘fluff’ just yet.
I saw a similar article on Bell of Lost Souls but with significantly worse English. I think BoLS just cut and pasted the original article whereas BoW have tried to clean it up a little bit. However I think in both cases the author of the original post hasn’t really captured the real atmosphere.of new lore. It sounds like a bunch of excited children all shouting their favourite bits out at once.
Reading between the lines it does sound interesting. A world before Chaos (or at least at its inception) where all the races occupy all areas of the Alignment spectrum. It also sounds like the Sigmarite Humans could be considered as much the bad guys as chaos. In fact I think what I’ve read there
Not sure what happened there, my phone decided to auto submit halfway through my post.
What I was about to say is if what is being said there is true then a brief summary of the world is that two new forces have arrived in the world, those of Law (Sigmar) and those of Chaos (the ruinous powers) and both threaten the balance of the world (all the non chaos and non Sigmar factions).
I like the sound of a politically ambiguous world where any race can ally with any race as their need dictates. I also like the idea of a purist, Ultra lawful, human supremacist movement (Sigmarites) potentially being a threat to the world – as much of a threat as the insidious powers of Chaos.
However I admit that this is just me trying to make sense of the bullet points, which aren’t particularly easy to follow.
I’m personally hoping for a reboot of the rules and the fluff
To me a very interesting bunch of rumours, butit seems to be more of a wish
list than actual fact. We shall see.
It’s exciting that they are trying something. Fantasy seems to have become the unpopular ugly sister of 40k and so they are trying a makeover. People that still love Fantasy should have some trepidation, but for everyone else I think it should be exciting that the world’s biggest gaming company is going all out to repair their 2nd most popular IP. It could be great, or not, but it is something interesting. That said, I hate the absurd names of the races, done entirely for copyright reasons. I’d rather they be more intuitive instead of makeup words…
When i asked games workshop if some of my armies would be completely useless in age of sigmar the reply was they couldnt tell but the first news about age of sigmar will be in White dwarf or on their webstore kinda lame that they still are selling all the old books at such high prices gotta Wonder what they do with whats left in stock after the 26th ?? do they burn it lol
Well, trying to shift the stuff in some kind of… sale will never happen. I think GW would rather burn the old books then try to sell them cheap 😛
…a big landfill somewhere – if only you could find out where it is. All those copies of Dreadfleet!
Maybe Kirby eats unsold kits and books for breakfast? o_O
I haven’t played WHFB for a good few months, but I’ve been playing Warhammer – including the wargame, the RPG, and the video games – for about 15 years now.
And against all expectation, I actually like the sound of this.
Don’t get me wrong, I love the Old World, and the background, and the feel of it all. But its been going increasingly far from the classic stuff that I loved, and these days it’s a better world to roleplay in than wargame in (in fact, our group just started playing 1st edition WHFRP, and it’s still brilliant).
This Age of Sigmar stuff… there’s a few things I don’t like the sound of (my beloved Orcs! The Empire losing its quasi-Germanic renaissance flair!), but a lot of things I think sound great (focus on smaller skirmishes that can ‘scale up’, the turtle-like Waaghkin, the more cold and sinister Elves, different cultures being represented in the human armies). I’m actually almost excited about this.
This would represent almost unprecedented sweeping change… if true. To be honest, I am far from convinced of the credibility of these rumours, but that is just my personal take.
Once again, we will just have to wait and see. It is only about a couple of weeks to go before we know for certain. After that, we will have the information we need to make an informed decision on whether we like AoS or not, and whether it is actually 9th edition or something else.
If all this turns out to be true, I may finally be able to get back in touch with GW´s original creation. I know some veterans might find this bad news, which I can understand, but I´m getting shivers, pleasant ones, reading all these ideas. This may only be a new edition, but I believe that this is a new generation of Warhammer! Praise Je..Sigmar!
…
Or everything will fall like a house of cards, GW will go the same way as Soviet went during the eighties and the ruins will be bought up by Hasbro.
The big difference – Rick Priestley
Morale.
http://www.gingersoftware.com/english-online/spelling-book/confusing-words/moral-morale
From the little I have read about it does seem a lot like the content and rules you got in the very first edition of Warhammer
I just went through some of the basic rules with my brother(both of us have been playing for far to long) and he just said that is basically warmaster the old GW game,they have just redone some of the rules for them.
Finally getting female figures in the mainstream boxes.
that would make me look at the game.
I have started feeling bad trying to read the comments sections of these rumor posts, so many people actually believe them and then write like three paragraphs about how their heart is broken, and their game is ruined, they’ve been betrayed, all of Warhammer is destroyed… then the next week a whole new set of rumors come out. It’s sort of, embarrassing.
Well said. It’s not even out yet and it’s being written.off. I’m hopeful that some of the rumours are true but I know I’m engaging in what is at this stage wishful thinking. Que sera sera and we will find out exactly what that means in a few weeks.
@frankelee the setting is destroyed, the mass battle game seems likely to be destroyed. If this will be a good game is uncertain.
Oh by the way new set of rumours here: http://natfka.blogspot.co.uk/2015/06/an-introduction-to-age-of-sigmar.html?m=1
I think I post ones. Time will tell
*I prefer the posted ones
Some interesting things in the rumours. But I went “WTF” when I read the part where minis regain all their lost wounds at the end of the turn. That sounds abhorrent.
It sounds different, not sure if it’s abhorrent. I suppose it makes would more of a Fatigue/stress indicator than actual wounds. I’ve seen video games and RPGs with similar mechanics where damage can be recovered without healing. Obviously, it’s just a rumour so it might not be true but if it is true it won’t put me off playing.
It depends on implementation, in warmaster it was used – it represented the difficulty of destroying things via shooting, and due to the rolling nature of combats tended to be irrelevant in combat. That was to units though
In a skirmish game that seems rather an odd fit, who knows until we see the actual rules.
It’s all got to be taken in the wider context of the rules. It means that you probably can’t beat that Greater Demon by attrition any more but if this is a feature of the rules (and I admit that’s a big IF) then the rest of the game will be set up to work that way.
Yes, that was the part I also did not like. I am for attrition. Its a absolutely silly premise that combattants (of any size) are either unhurt or dead.
Like I said elsewhere, you have to take it in the context of the rest of the rules, which we don’t really know anything about. It doesn’t bother me in the slightest as I play a lot of Tabletop RPGs, which is how I do most of my gaming, and this is no different than moving from D&D with its massive hit points totals to Savage Worlds with it maximum 3 hits which you can recover during combat. It just means that damage stops being a count of the number of times you get hit and more about the amount of stress you are experiencing in combat under the pressure of being attacked. If it is a rule, then the rest of the rules will be geared in such a way that units, especially heroes and mosters, can be killed you just might have to learn new tactics. But you would have to learn new tactics with any new game
Some of those rumors made me scratch my head with confusion like one about wounds recovering.
The same article (exact same words) was on BoLS as well. Did i miss something?
Very interesting… I think for GW it’s a case of go big or go home. If they were going to change WFB because it wasn’t working (and I don’t think it was, even if some people were still having a lot of fun with it), then they did indeed need to create an entirely new game system.
I think they also needed to create a new setting. One that justified many different factions fighting each other. The setting of this new game doesn’t sound very interesting to me so far, though I’ll keep an open mind. But the WFB setting that I liked (actually an older, lower fantasy version of the game we know rather than the more recent, high fantasy incarnation) wasn’t really suitable for the kind of game GW were trying to sell. It made no sense for Lizardmen to be fighting Chaos Dwarfs, for the Empire to be fighting high elves, or even for Empire to be facing ‘the end times’ every few years.
If you’re going to have a high fantasy game, then you really need a high fantasy setting that supports the kind of game you’re going for.
Does sound interesting I hope the price point puts me off as I really don’t want another games system already far to much going on! Interestingly moving away from the massive Armies I read as a massive success for the guys at Mantic as KoW has stole that mass battle crown.
I think the idea to kill the entire stat line is GREAT! I always hated the clunky system of strength vs. toughness since the first edition. It only led to unnecessary additional bag-of-dice rolls in comparision to other system which are leaner. Now finally its gone. Good news.
Also the skirmish idea of not more than 50 minis is good. To be honest after playing easy but hard to master KoW, WFB as my preferred mass combat system was dead for me. I am glad that GW now tries something different. Call me interested again.
Whose computer will be able to run Warhammer: Total War?
Mine, I hope.
Going to be a disaster …
I have never liked warhammer fantasy, for the last 20 years I have tried to avoid it, being dragged in a few times but ultimately ending up just feeling “meh” towards it. It was only the people I played against that made me want to play it, but I would play “flick-a-rock” with my best gaming mates as I know it would be entertaining.
The reason I never got pulled in was the fluff, I was into 40k for years because of my love for the fluff, nothing out there came even close to the variety etc found in 40k, recently things have changed. Also cost was an issue, I couldn’t justify dropping £500 on a mediocre army, and the converter in me doesn’t like standard models, things must be toyed with, which just added to the cost of a 30 man unit.
A change of fluff and a chance to get in on the ground floor of the new world has wet my appetite, with smaller armies that can include a wide variety of races etc really excites me (as I’m as much a painter as a gamer, so the ability to actually use the one off cool units I buy will be awesome!)
I can’t wait for this to come out and to hear more about it, it may be the game that gets me buying GW stuff again. From reading the comments it does give me the feeling that GW are damned if they do and they’re damned if they don’t. They release a new game and completely shake up the system and traditional fantasy players cry (which to be fair, there’s not a lot left compared to other systems) but if they keep it the same, like 40k, people accuse them of just releasing new editions because they are money grabbers.
As for the IP shake up, why not? Nearly every system has unique armies, units, fluff, etc that only really fits with their own stuff, like warmachine, infinity, WWX, Malifaux. Warhammer and KoW some of the few “generic” fantasy games left. I’d prefer to see a reimagining than the same stale vanilla fantasy that has been released for the last god knows how many years.
I think I share some of your opinions. I’m defiitely optimistic about the new edition for no reason other than it’s a game, there’s no reason not to be optimistic. If it turns out to be a donkey, there’s plenty of other games to play.
As for fluff, I always quite liked the WFB lore because it wasn’t quite generic fantasy – it had an early renaissence theme where most fantasy is medieval/dark age themed. However, I think it’s one flaw, in my own opinion, was it didn’t offer enough “gaps”, as BoW like to call them, in which to game. In 40k, you can invent your own Space Marine chapters, Imperial Guard regiments, build your own Eldar craftworlds (or even convert Eldar Exodites). Warhammer always felt a bit more prescriptive, like if you weren’t sticking to the canon, your army didn’t fit. Like you, I also like converting things, making armies that are unique to me and I think that the rumours seem to suggest that there will be a lot more scope to pretty make any mad-cap idea that comes into your head and still be considered to be within the lore of the world. Something I’ve learned from doing LARP plot is that it’s sometimes better to have a mostly undeveloped world and only fill in the blanks as and when you need them – it allows players to fill in those gaps with their own imagination.