July 26, 2010 by lloyd
Has Darrell found a cheesy loop hole for firing the Monolith Particle Whip when deep striking, what do you think, is this Blue Stilton or just a mild Cheddar?
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Are you being cheesy? How can you not be cheesy?
By your logic, i’d have to say you’re right. By my logic and after a couple of games of that against you, id like to see if it fires when moving rapidly down and out of the window.
I just had quick look in the faq and ther is no ruling on that.
I hope it works like this, because I’m tired of my Tau friends always sniping my monoliths with their railguns before I get to do anything with them.
I don’t really think it’s cheesy especially seeing how weak the necron codex is in comparison to pretty much every codex out at the moment especially the newer ones. It looks to be totally legal, I wouldn’t even question the Necron player if they tried that.
Sounds logical to me. I would let my opponent do that.
I’d let them do it. There’s no justification on my part that it shouldn’t be aloud (you know, other than “please don’t kill me”).
However, if they don’t know this rule, or fail to pick up on the loopholes, i don’t have to let them know.
After all, i shouldn’t be telling them of their own cheesey moves
i would let you have that i have plenty of ways to take it out anyway. by the way i play guard and blood angels.
Actually I played against a noob necron player on last wednesday and he asked me if he could do that, when reading the rules deepstriking counts as moving and the Necron dex clearly states he can shoot it while moving. Its like a relentless unit firing a plasma cannon while deepstriking. So I allowed it. simplely not all that cheesey.
this is one amazing find thank you darrell, i cant wait to use this in the game im having today
I agree with Darell and a lot of what has been said above. As always codex trumps rule book. That being said the codex states “may be used even if the Monolith moves, or is shaken or stunned.” This being said without specifying movement distance I would say Darell’s interpretation applies.
I’m fine with necron players doing that because I never spend anytime attacking monoliths, I just focus on making them phase out.
This isn’t even cheddar.
It’s an Edam of logic. (A little cheesy, but it doesn’t really smell)
Gotta say, normally i tend to disagree with Darrell’s cheese mongering, but in this case I think he’s right. The Necron codex clearly states that the Monolith can move & shoot, and the rules state that deep striking units count as moving, so i think it’s perfectly acceptable for the Monolith to open fire on the turn which it arrives…
… dammit! 😉
ive always done this with my two deep striking Monoliths and havent had anyone complain about it after directing them to the Necron codex…. not your cheesiest exploit to date but it definitly has that dairy product vibe about it!
If the rules in the necron codex are as darrell describes then yeah this looks legal and fair to me.
As deep striking counts as moving 12 inches then the rules on page 73 come into play, vehicle moving and shooting summary chat. All (except fast and walkers) moving as cruising speed can fire no weapons?
I have to agree with you. If you follow darrel’s logic than monoliths can move 12″ every turn and still fire the particle whip. The necron codex does not state that it can move 12″ and shoot. The last time I checked moving a vehicle 6″ still counts as moving and the monolith can still fire after that distance. That would satisfy the rule in the necron codex of moving and shooting. Monoliths firing at cruising speed smells like spoiled goat’s cheese to me.
Ok, so I had a little read through the necron codex and discovered that they cannot move 12″ anyways. But moving 6″ and shooting still satisfies the move and shoot description in the codex.
sounds good, i dont play necrons verry often due to lack of players that play them at my local game club, but ill be looking out for it from now on.
tru but the monolith can move 12 inches and fire as far as i can remember
scratch that it can move six inches because it is paunderous, but there in lies the problem. I think I would allow it though. because there is no rules for a monolith moving farther than its normal move
if monolith can only move 6 inches, makes you wonder how it can deep strike, as that counts as 12 inches!
i reken that it woud count as a drop pod of sorts…. but that is not in any book thea is just how i woud ply in in a fun game.
If i recall, 4th edition had different measures for combat, cruising and flat out speeds for each type of vehicle. The Necron codex has not been updated for 5th and so we must take that into account meaning that the converted cruising speed of the monolith might be 6 inches or, more likely, not exist at all and the cruising speed from deep strike should instead be counted as combat speed for the monolith.
Also, most planets have this thing called gravity which actually helps a bug hunk ‘o metal reach the ground quite fast if dropped from space. Given that an inch is roughly seven feet or so in real world terms, if the monolith was restricted to a six inches the landing craft would have to drop it roughly 112 feet from the ground, based on a monolith height of 10 inches.
it sound like it woud worke very well. and it does twist the rules. but it is one of the cheest thing i have ever see .
i dont play 40K, but the logic appears sound. If it can move and shoot, and deep strike is considered a move. Then yup, those space marines are toast.
Case of old Codex verses new rule book can “old” Necrons survive in the New Order?
ive been doing this with my monolith for a few games now. but ive also had problems with bringing the whole army in through the door. not a good idea. just stick to the plan
a blood angels predator fired three las cannons one twin linked into it for 4 turns straight and didnt even get a weapon destroyed!!!
that is just soooooooooooooooooooo cheesy. Well done mate
Yeah but the one thing is about the particle whip is, if you have a monolith on the table and you have warriors came in from reserve they must enter in from the monolith doors. The only why I can see not having this issue is to only have two squads of warriors. I am saying this due to the Reserves rule on pg 18 “When they arrive they must emerge from the Monolith Portal.” Bus some of you might say that, “I know that, but the FAQ says we can bring them in from the table edge.” Now I am going to get cheesy. The FAQ only states that you must specify where they are coming in; the codex states they must enter from the portal and if there is not one you have to wait until there is one.
I like Necrons don’t come at me as cheesy Marine player, but as far as I can see there is only one way to have more then one for sure round of firing the whip and that is to only take two units of Warriors. You can get the first round with the whip if you place it on the table during the start or the round in which it comes in rolling its reserver roll after all the warriors rolls.
yes Darrell, you are totally correct in this. Nice find!
makes sense to me – perhaps not an intended result of the rulebook – but certainly well within the rules in their current form.
Funny thing is if you did this last edition people would be screaming lol.
I find it not cheesy and a good tip.
i believe Darrell is right in that it is capable of that and i also believe it isnt cheesy but fitting that the necron Monolith is able to seeing as they are one of the very few races that has little options… I believe the necrons need some more tanks or at least some more Destroyer variants (and a lot more plastic kits though this could apply to most armies)
Someone stop me… I agree with Darrell… I know somewhere an angel just died for that one…
Not cheesy at all, Darrell. I agree with you. Necrons need all the help they can get, lol.
Its cheesy but youll likely get away with it, although with a lot of protest.
Yeah, thanks very much Darrell. I will be having even more Necron victories from now on. My friends already think that Necrons are cheating scum, well wait until they get a load if this!!!
Examining the origins of the rule (ie. 3rd Ed.) the unit deepstriking couldn’t do anything when it landed (shooting or close combat to the best of my memory).
The rule exists because in 3rd ed. you couldn’t fire ordnance weapons while moving, and that’s there to circumvent that particular rule rather than directly allowing it to fire when deepstriking.
However, I’m not against the rule. Blood Angels can deepstrike a land raider and fire a weapon on it or drop sanguinary guard in a vaporise a vehicle, so why not!!!!
Might see that disappearing in the next codex though!
I’m inclined to say that this doesn’t work and here’s my arguement why.
Deep striking is not a ‘move’. The term move implies that the object in question (in this case the monolith) has a start point and subsequently an end point. Since the monolith does not have an end point, it has not ‘moved’… It has merely come onto the board. In the Deep Strike rules it is stated that “Vehicles count as having moved as cruising speed”. They ‘count as’ because they have not actually made a ‘move’.
So what you’re saying is (and I’m being kind of a jerk for being this nitpicky) that anytime some unit or thing counts as , its not really that at all? I. E. Destroyers counts as jetbikes, but i should not treat them as such?
What I’m getting at is, when A ‘counts as’ B, it is for all intent and purpose B. Thus Deep Strike counts as “cruising speed”, and it gets treated as such in every regard.
I don’t think you’re being a jerk at all. In fact that’s a really good counter argument.
That’s so cheesy. Thanks for the warning. If anyone ever plays Necrons at mys clubs I’ll know what to be one the lookout for.
No that’s not legal. It simply says it can shoot if it moves. My Baal can shoot if it moves… accordingly with the BRB. Since your sule doesn’t say it can shoot while moving at cruising speed, it’s not a green light. Remember… the rules have to allow you to do something. The BRB says at cruising speed you can’t fire. Your codex does NOT say you can fire if having moved at cruising speed.
Once again, Darrell, you rules lawyering duechery knows no bounds.
I agree Tthe codex says “The power matrix can not be disabled by a wepon destryoed result and may be used even if the monolithmove,shaken or is stunned.” So yes I do agree in this rule can’t wait to us this in my 1st necron game!!!!!
I’ve used this ‘loophole’ often. I’ve played Necron for a few years now, and every monolith I have ever used in Deep Strike (4th and 5th ed.) has arrived simply to make the enemy shuffle his lines and take a large blast template to the core of their army. If you look at 5th ed. codex’, you’ll find quite a few units who will bend Deep Strike rules. Some will Deep Strike->shoot->assault, so i don’t see why there would be any reason to even argue against Necron having a tank that Deep Strikes and drops one ordnance template.
good loop hole the necrons are now even more CHEESY 😀 thank you and also i was wondering if you could make a video about the tomb spyder and tactics because i don’t understand the codex rulings for it and my friend tells me that they cant do anything which i don’t believe could you help me? thank you again
why is it whenever someone says somthing cheesy they say page 21 lol
that is amazing i never know that
So if deep striking a Monolith counts as moving 12inches and then firing the Particle Whip as it’s a Ordnance 1/Blast wouldn’t that scatter 2d6 or isn’t that done in the new rules.
I HAVE A QUESTION!!!!
ELDAR FARSEER!!!
Mind War and Eldritch Storm….plus Sprit Stones
Spirit Stones allow a Farseer to cast 2 Psychic Powers in a turn.
Mind War and Eldritch Storm are powers that quote ” may be used in the shooting phase instead of using a weapon.”
Since the Spirit Stones allow for the use of 2 Powers, Does this mean I can use MW and ES in 1 Shooting phase as it counts as “being used in the shooting phase” and not counting as actually shooting?