Cult Of Games XLBS: Can Family History Inspire Your Hobby?
February 20, 2022 by avernos
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Happy Sunday OTT’ers!
I’m from a family that has had someone fight in every branch of the military in every major conflict of the last 108 years. My wife’s family are German and they had serving members of the SS in the family. My father went to Vietnam and both of my grandfathers served in the British military in WWII despite one having been rebel in the Easter Rebellion in 1916.
If I’m wargaming it, I don’t have a problem with playing any force in any conflict, I can divorce the game from the politics, but I have met a few people who can’t. Show up with a SS army for Bolt Action – no problem. Start telling me you started playing them because you’ve embraced the National Socialist German Workers Party philosophy and it’s literally game over.
Happy Sunday
happy sunday,
I hope all have a wonderful day except @Ben, I hope all the bad things happen to you. You know what youdid.
My evil knows no bounds
John’s Carrier-conversion is great. I’m always happy to see a scratch-build in what is called a hobby, but which has become far too consumeristic ‘thanks’ to the profileration of 3D-printing. I also liked the Challenger-tutorial, btw.
I don’t care for family histories. I’m inspired by ideas, not by some shared genes and passed-down, almost always embellished ‘history, aka lies.
Not a happy go lucky topic for this week but I’ll bite and add my thoughts. I’d probably delve into Vietnam and the history related to my dad. I don’t know much of what he went through but for bits and pieces. I’d like to know more because I know there’s probably not much time left on his clock and generally get to know a man that was in service almost all of my life until I left home and joined myself. It’ll be a hard one but I think being fully grown and a veteran myself might make the communication easier.
It’s always tough I agree. My Grandfather really didn’t like talking about the time he spent in India during World War II with the RAF. He gave us snippets but didn’t really go into it.
He did talk endlessly about the planes that he worked on like the Hurricane and the Lancaster Bombers. It was nice to see his engineering/carpentry passion come through there.
*Looks at Family History* “Georg Asmus SS Brigadefuhrer in charge of Krakow” yeah might give that one a miss.
In Australia a lot of guys get a WWII Australian force of some kind with a family connection. I had 31/51st which my Grandfather served with although I’ve since repainted them for the desert.
Really wonderful golden buttons this week. I have been loving the battle report uploads and the Lark Force project is really great. Fantastic work from everyone. Very much looking forward to future updates ?
@ands totally agree with you! Fantastic golden buttons. As @avernos recently said “great to have such talented buggers in the community (or words to that effect!) ??
My grandfather drove one of those carriers but I don’t know which model. Apparently the fumes from the engine knocked him out and he crashed. An American unit found him in a ditch.
Personally WW2 has been the closest to now time period I’ve gamed so far. I’ve taken an interest in reading about the Falklands a lot more recently after watching a Tea and Medals episode but I’m not yet at a point of exploring the period on the tabletop.
For anyone who is interested in exploring their family history, check with your local libraries. Many of them have online subscriptions to the big name websites (Ancestry etc) which can be great starting points for your own exploration. Certainly within our service, we actually have a team to help people dig deeper and have a wealth of local history documents, photos etc which are gradually being digitised. (Please support your local libraries!!!)
Ww1, one great granddad was in the royal Somerset horse artillery. He was wounded on the Weston front. My other great grandad died at sea on the hms Goliath. Ww2 one granddad was unfit for service so worked on the land. The other was in the home guard. Later on my dad and his two brothers inlaws did national service. One in each of the three services. Army, navy (marines) and RAF. So I have plenty of stuff from ww1 to the Suez crisis I could potently pick from
Oh Kudos to Ben , we probably would have all thought, I has same thought at the size of table I had in Room at Vegas.
Really interesting and, personally, topical discussion this morning. I need to spend some time organising my comments lest it be a mass of waffle! As Mark Twain said “Sorry I wrote you a long letter, I didn’t have the time to write you a short one”!
In the meantime, if anyone has access to detail of the Queen’s Own Yorkshire Dragoons through the WWII North Africa campaign (over and above what is set out on Wikipedia) I’d be forever indebted to be pointed to it!
Really interesting topic this week. I did the Easter rising as a game once because my wife is Irish. The British players were a bit awkward at that one which is another point. Playing a game from history and feeling your the bad guys which may or may not be true. I’d love to do the Indian mutiny at some point. Lucknow I’d basically a city fight so you could do a lot of raids and breakthroughs
Ahoy Hoy Otters! Happy Sunday.
Funnily enough John, watched a documentary on Canadians Post Normandy, Yhey were involved in the diversionary attack on the Eastern Side of Waleraron Island( excuse spelling)
So Gerry has the hobby equivalent of Adam Savage’s cave ?
(except not as well organised … 😀 )
It the nutty OTTers XLBS SHOW.
Let the wookie win.?
Terrific show folks, thanks so much!
When I go deep on 40k lore, like with the Eisenhorn/Ravenor/Bequin saga, I find it hard to think about bringing any of those characters to a game. It’s like they’re too fleshed out or something for me to feel like I can do them justice in miniature.
I think the same thing applies to WW2 games for me – the more I know about a personality, the less confident I feel portraying them on the battlefield.
Was that not bigger to seat the gun crew and passengers john?
Yes and no. As all carriers were supposed to tow anti-tank guns. The Lloyd carrier being what I’d say was the most “fitting” for the role. But Universals did the same job. On top of carrying mortar teams, recon and command roles.
Really interesting discussion today, and I’ll keep my tuppence as brief as I can!
My interest in WW2 has emerged ENTIRELY from Beasts of War / OTT. As a kid, WW2 history lessons scared the bejesus out of me, and a trip to a WW2 museum left me pretty traumatised. I just didn’t want to engage with it, and that lasted well into adulthood. Then, not too long ago, in my late 30s, I started to find the Enigma code-breaking stuff really interesting, and those barriers started to break down.
But the thing that dissolved the barriers entirely, was the BoW Bolt Action North Africa bootcamp. It’s a regret of mine that I never got to a bootcamp (hopefully can fix that one day!) but during that weekend I was visiting my parents and I mentioned that I would be spending the afternoon watching the coverage. That’s when she shocked me by saying “Oh, your grandad fought in North Africa – he was at El-Alamein.” There’s only one response to that – “Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaattt??” She sent my dad into the loft and he emerged with an old box which, after a quick rummage, produced a photo or two and some cap badges. The photo showed a young grandad in the classic desert fatigues, and the cap badges revealed the Queen’s Own Yorkshire Dragoons.
My mum told me what she knew. My grandad died while I was very young, I just about remember him, so no chance to quiz him myself sadly. What she said stacked with what I could Google about that regiment. As a boy/teen he worked with pit ponies down the mines. He hated it so lied about his age to join the army. The QOYD were a volunteer cavalry division, so I assume his affinity for ponies helped there. He apparently told my uncle (mum’s older brother) that he fought with the Desert Rats, but I’ve yet to glean any truth/info in that. The QOYD also converted from cavalry to a lorried division during the Africa campaign and this stacks with his story that he learned to drive whist in the army, and post-war he was a HGV driver. He took a shrapnel wound to the face and apparently he “had to hold his eye in” at one point – eek.
Aside from that, all I know is what Wikipedia can tell me, and Oriskany was very kind in suggesting some resources and giving thoughts and pointers at the time of the bootcamp. I really need to get his service history to really find out where and when he served – something I am keen to do.
So in response to this week’s topic. Yes I absolutely would play WW2 North Africa, and the whole reason to do so would be the family history. It’s my gateway into learning the history, and a connection which adds greater purpose to the 100s of hours it would consume in building, painting and playing. It gives me a sense of place in the world which I can experience through my hobby. Would I play the British? Yes. Would I play Germans or Italians? Yes. If I could find out enough detail to build my granddads actual unit and have him fight a battle against his actual enemies? Build yes, play probably yes. Would I tell my mum? Hmm, not sure! Would my brother play against me? No. For him, real world wars are too real. I play him at sci-fi games.
Now I’m eyeing up the new Flames of War stuff….
My late father was just in his teens when war broke out in Poland, he like so many others of that generation never went on about most of his experiences, but what he did divulge gave me just an inkling of the horrors of Nazi Occupation! He narrowly avoided being executed by the simple fact of running from a tram stop, he was sent to various work camps and till the end of his life had a phobia and nightmares about fleas and lice, he was in one of the Schweinfurt ball bearing factories when the Americans bombed there and he made an epic run from working in France and almost made the Spanish border before being picked up and sent back to the work camps! He only started to talk about things more openly during his latter years mainly to my Sister but so much real first person history has been lost because he refused to let my Sister take notes or record his recollections!
His experiences though gave me the interest in history and in gaming that I have today, even though he never took part in any fighting, though because of his experiences I have no desire to collect SS units but I will play them if they are for specific large scale battles (I generally play WW2 in 6mm using Spearhead rules). I think this is my way to both honor my Father and still indulge in gaming without crossing my own boundaries.
So I have made the choice that many others make as to how far we will go with our gaming based on our upbringing and moral compasses. I have no moral objections to gaming any side in any other period, no matter how horrific they may have been because I have no direct connection to them!
Really good topic today guys, glad it came up and I could add my little bit to it.
We all have our red-lines we don’t cross. I don’t have any particular family links but, although my main FoW armies are German, I refuse to contemplate collecting or playing Waffen-SS (apart from getting the book). I can accept the standard German ‘Heer’ army were doing what any army would do for their country, and the vast majority were not involved in any war-crimes. Unlike the notorious Waffen-SS – the combat branch of the Nazi Party’s SS organisation.
Happy Sunday
00:00 No funny out-take? Oooooh…
01:30 cheating definitely ends gaming in some cases
04:30 @warzan and a hot tub? Is he going to stream no regularly?
07:30 Hold on! @johnlyons , is that a FlashGitz shirt? XD
08:15 Uuuuhh… @brennon ! Naughty! XD
09:15 “Nobody is going to know” except us
20:30 Bolt Action vibrations? oO
24:40 “Guards armour” … is this still Bolt Action or is this 40k? XD
27:00 first Ben does a bad comment on a wounded soldier and then kills a medic!? oO
32:00 Penpainters!
36:00 And now for something completely different
46:00 Is that cat I hear… heeeere kitty kitty
50:45 From wargaming to pee in 10 seconds. XD
52:00 As a German… getting inspired by your grand parents generation to get into wargaming… maybe not such a good idea. If you know what I mean.
1:00:00 Ben is an engineer on the USS Enterprise? oO
1:07:00 “My grandfather made trains, LLoyd” *promotion* *pay rise*
1:15:00 going back to my comment on 52:00 on that: I’d really wouldn’t feel comfortable playing anything as a German from WW II…
1:19:15 I still have the war diary from my Grandfather and I still need to get around typing that in and putting it on the web. Sometime. But I wouldn’t want a game based on that.
Nice Sunday, until next time!
it is a Flash Gitz t-shirt 😉
I’m in awe of that kitbash. It’s way more ambitious than anything I’d attempt. Outstanding work!
My family has a long history of serving in the British forces. I served in?the Gulf War, my father in the Falkands. Several family members served in WW2 which included a great uncle who was a Spitfire pilot, grandad in the Navy another in the commandos who also served in Korea. I also have an uncle who served with the French Foreign Legion and was a mercenary in Africa (though not many family members talk about him).
In fact there is a letter from Wellington to Cornwallis which mentions a family member. They’re talking about this individual who was an officer. Wellington says he’s a good officer but he habitually sways with the wind. A polite way saying the man’s constantly pissed as a fart.
One family member traced our family tree, and there were members who fought at Waterloo, the Crimean War and out in India.
Now I also have my wife’s family history of those who served in the military. Her father was a member of the PLA in the 60s/70s, a grandfather fought in Korea in a Chinese tank unit. Her uncles also served, then there are family members who fought against the Japanese for both the Nationalist and Communist forces.
Have you guy’s wrote to the army records to see if they can get more info on your relative’s?
My grandpa was part of the aa unit protecting Inverness and the ship refuelling base in cromarty an he had two shell cases for the fireplace holding pockers and the like.
Loved the show guy’s.
@zorg totally agree!
On emotional attachment, and pertinent to John’s rebooting his WW2 Brits collection. I used those exact words with the old WW2 Late Brits kit from Warlord. The range of ages in their faces, from “still kids” to middle-aged fellas, it really brought home the range of ages that were signed up to storm those beaches.
My own family history with WW2 is pretty limited. It barely touched rural East Lancashire and both my grandads served in the home guard (one was the local undertaker, the other failed his medical). The emotional attachment I developed was purely from the models but it’s a genuine one.
I have a new box and I’ve not opened it because the more “action” faces aren’t grabbing me the same way.
Three great golden button winners there, and yep I subscribed to the Dice & Easy Games YouTube channel.
A very absorbing debate… but as I prefer total escapism, that is probably why I tend to head towards sci fi and fantasy genres rather than accurate depictions of history. That’s why pulp, steampunk and gothic environments such as Silver Bayonet, Wolfsung, ect. Allow for some history but without the accuracy that may make a too personal and emotional connection.
The Sven Hazzel film https://youtu.be/NPXy7rNv-wo really enjoyed the books, would make an interesting game doing the train yard scene.Nice conversion John.Definitely should do Nijmegen you can get the bridge from https://wowbuildings.net/product/nijmegan-bridge/ also do the kellys heros buildings if you want to redo the film.
This is another film based on a Sven Hassel book
https://youtu.be/YgEOdUicvPI
There is another called Cross of Iron which is one of the better films based on the characters from Sven Hassels books
If you mean the Cross of Iron film by Sam Peckinpah then that’s based on a Willie Hendrich book. Breakthrough is meant to be a follow up to Cross of Iron but is just a travesty of film
When I was a wee lad – many decades ago – I visited and stayed with my Uncle over a couple of half-terms who had been an artillery gunner in N Africa and Italy, attached to the Black Watch. He had this amazing photo-album that he made from pictures he took at El Alamein etc. but that mostly showed that human, group of pals aspect to the war. My British N.Africa force does have several 25-pounders to represent his unit. I haven’t singled him out, otherwise removing casualties during gameplay can get very personal.
Great topic, I have a couple of interesting relatives.
I am somehow related to Clive of India, a period I have read about, but as of yet not really found any specific figures that I like. Any suggestions?
My Great Uncle Leon was in the Royal Surrey Regiment and we knew he died in the war but no specifics, but after some research we have worked out that he went through Dunkirk and was likely killed at the Battle of Gemmano
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Gemmano.
I have thought about Bolt Action early war, and if I do I will definitely do his regiment.
I am also directly related to Captain Webb the first man who swam the English Channel. He died when he attempted to go down the Niagara Falls in a barrel
My mother traced back to the 11th Century and a couple of descendents – Hamo de Massey and Hamo de Carentan (Carrington) who came over with William the Conqueror and were given most of Altricham (hence Dunham Massey and Carrington where a certain football club has a training ground). But at Great-(x31 times over)-Grandfathers there’s probably too many descendents to put in a claim. They’ll be in my Saga Normans (though probably wrong period).
Another descendent in that Carrington line was supposedly a crusader at Acre who was supposedly was flag bearer for King Richard and played a key role in the assault of the gate…
But more interestingly some spoilsport of a historian has demonstrated this story to be a falsehood begun in Tudor times and perpetuated by the Carrington-Smythe family line. The truth is almost as interesting as the original story. Won’t stop me incorporating him when I eventually get around to Saga Crusades.
https://www.geni.com/people/Sir-Michael-Smith-of-Carrington-Fictional/6000000002083034378
Happy Sunday, really interesting show loved it. I have a lot of interest in WW2 from family history, I have just started building a LRDG patrol using THE “DAK ATTACK” rules available on the Offensive miniatures website so find this arena fascinating. And also in the process of studying the history of the The Black Bull:11th Armoured Division and the US 3rd Armoured Division in World War Two. The one area of conflict I could never game would be the N.I troubles just a no no for me.
@johnlyons and @avernos Warlord Games did make special characters and rules for Kelly’s Heroes and Dad’s Army so you could readily use them in a bespoke Bolt Action scenario.
Connecting real history to table top games is always an interesting proposition. I certainly have an interest in certain historical battles and periods so I do tend to gravitate towards those games that featured that interest. But I find games that cover periods I know nothing about will then spark my interest in a certain period which will then manifest itself on the table top.
Personal connections are a bit tricky. I have had the fortune to tour several battlefields. The two that stand out most readily are Yorktown and Iwo Jima. Visiting Yorktown as an American with a keen interest in history certainly motivates me to try and reproduce that battle. But one of my ancestors did fight in the American Revolution, but wasn’t present at Yorktown. But building an Continental Army force, I’d almost certainly represent his regiment, whether present or not.
My dad’s family immigrated to America from Germany prior to WW1 so it’s probable that some distant relatives fought in the First and Second World Wars so I don’t have any any particular feelings about it one way or the other.
But a number of my family that I knew while growing up did serve in WW2 and all that served actually survived the war. My grandfather served on the USS Zellars, a destroyer, during the invasion of Okinawa. She was hit by a kamikaze and took severe damage but stayed afloat. My grandfather told me that story, and several others, about his time in the Navy. I probably could put the Zellars on the table but I’m not sure how I’d feel if I lost her in a game.
I did get to go to Iwo Jima and I walked the black San beaches, crawled through the Japanese tunnels (extremely hot due to the volcano) and climbed Mt Suribachi. Being able to see the entire island from the top of Mt Suribachi is an eye opening experience. The entire island would have been subject to fire from any size of artillery. And with the exception of Mt Suribachi, the entire island is, at most, only 30 feet above sea level. That’s not an exaggeration. Gaming Iwo Jima would be particularly interesting as I know what the terrain is like.
I’ve read some excellent books on the American Civil War and know it’s historical, technological and social impact but I have zero desire to game it. I did have ancestors that fought for the Confederacy and I have zero desire to learn more about them. I’ve been to a few Civil War battlefields and found them to be interesting and educational but little more. I did visit Andersonville and was deeply impressed. For those that don’t know, Andersonville was a Confederate prison that housed Union prisoners. The conditions were so horrific that the commander was one of only two people tried as a war criminal after the war and then hanged.
My father served in the Navy during the Vietnam War and my uncle in the Army. I would happily play a good Vietnam era game but wouldn’t play any scenarios connecting them to my father or uncle.
Allegedly one of my ancestors was with King Richard during the 3rd Crusade. If true, then most likely he was a Scottish infantry man. Probably carrying a spear. So, sure, one of my minis could easily be that ancestor. But that connection is so remote, and possibly non-existent, it has no real impact.
I have a full set of home guard from Wargames Foundry, sculpted by the Perry’s they’re smaller but much much better than the warlord sculpts and I don’t mind that they are smaller than the actually army, clearer they were too small and frail to enlist 🙂 [edited because I put the wrong company in]
A little late to the episode, but Sunday was busy with Club. A super interesting discussion RE: Family connections.
It was always my intention to do a Bolt Action force based on Kanga Force, with some Commandos of the 2/5th Double Black.
For some reason I’ve never been interested in the Pacific theatre, and I seem to be drawn to North Africa, with two Flames of War armies(Early War Australians, and Mid War British), and a Bolt Action army. With neither of these system being played at all around me any more, I know I’m never going to to a third Bolt Action army, but maybe I’ll do a diorama or something. It’s a Tuesday while watching this, but as usual I did some hobby, painting up some more primaris troops from my Dark Angels.
My family has no real military history in this or the previous centuries but my great-great grandfather was a sergeant in the US army during the US-Mexican war, then he went on to lead wagon trains across the American West, fought Indians and bandits as a lawman in the Utah territory, and waged guerrilla war against the Union army in the Utah War. Sadly, he missed out on the wonders of Element 270 and RJ-1027 so I have no personal connection to Wild West Exodus and Dystopian Wars ;).
I believe myself and Tony won the game of Undaunted… but I was brutally killed playing Damnation: A Gothic Game
Great fun had by all, except me as a ghost trying to roll 666 to resurrect. I didn’t
Interesting discussion today guys, thankyou.
My Grandfather served in New Guinea and Borneo during the second world war. When pressed for stories he would usualy just revert to cheeky stories about stealing American supplies or reminice about some quality of a lost colleague. One day I pressed a bit harder and he spoke about the hollow clunk sound made by the skulls of the dead as they were dragged away over rocks and I realised why he didn’t want talk about it much.
Todays conversation brought home that other than the very abstract inclusion within Axis and Allies I’ve never realy played a game that involved ANZACs vs Japanese in the pacific theatre and not realy sure how I would feel about it.
@avernos
Think thats you Gerry?
You might want to link in with Nick Skinner of TooFatLArdies fame as I’m sure he spoke about his grandfather who I think served in Palestine in WW1 so he probably knows of records and resources maybe of use while you wait for the digital age to catch up.
Regards.
Andy.