Securing The Future Of OnTableTop [Radio Show Discussion Added]
October 13, 2020 by warzan
Click Here For The Recorded Cult Radio Discussion (Warning: Strong Language)
2020 didn’t quite turn out to be the year we had all been expecting, did it? It has been a year that would stretch the innovation and resources of any small business. Like many, we have seen aspects of our organisation surge in growth and other aspects slow down.
The last six months have been an eye-opener for myself and Lloyd as business owners as we look at the possible lay of the land including its risks and more importantly its opportunities.
Over the last few weeks, we have been in close contact with the management team at Wayland Games Ltd. and have as of yesterday reached an agreement to sell OnTableTop and merge it into the much larger organisation.
During this process, we have met some wonderful and caring folk within Wayland’s management who share our passion for innovation, community and just trying to get better at what we do!
As we worked with them it became clear that we all had an opportunity to bring the best of what we have together and really do some great things in the gaming industry. Wayland Games have become an absolute powerhouse over recent years and have stepped in with resources, infrastructure and scale to allow us to take the platforms we have been developing to the next level. Ultimately, they have also provided our gaming communities with the best tools, content and community platforms we can create.
By joining this larger family we are being given the opportunity to create all manner of things to help improve your gaming lives and provide even more fun and innovative opportunities for amazing companies and game designers we work with.
I’ll be honest. Lloyd and I have some mixed emotions about the whole thing. We have worked our little socks off to build and grow this platform, and packaging up that ten-year labour of love to a new owner does leave a little lump in the throat.
However, both Lloyd and I have a 360-degree view of the business, the industry and its community. We see the infrastructure required, the industry trends and the opportunities appearing plus the costs and risks involved in attempting to seize those opportunities.
This then was an opportunity we decided to seize. It not only secures the long term future of the platform and community but the opportunity to bring forward some of the exciting projects and ideas that we have been sitting on was irresistible!
Going forward there will be a relatively short period of integration where we can capitalise on the significant and well-oiled infrastructure the team at Wayland has built. This will heavily free up the time of myself and other key team members, to turn our sights to the future.
So yes, Lloyd myself and the team are all sticking around and will continue to be completely involved. Securing the future of our team and community during these troubled times was a decision we did not take lightly and we are looking forward to the journey ahead with you guys and gals!
This is another milestone in the "Beasts Of War" project. Many of you have been on this journey from the start, and we look forward to many more years with you both online and at events all over the world.
Join Us For A Discussion On The Future
I (Warren) will be hosting a live "Town Hall" in the Discord Server during the Live Cult Radio Show (8pm BST Wednesday 14th October) to chat about all of this and answer any questions I can. You are all very welcome to tune into that or even call in to ask questions.
Click Here For The Recorded Cult Radio Discussion (Warning: Strong Language)
Join Us On Discord
New To Discord? Check Out This PDF Guide
I’m sure we will talk about the last time we tried this and what has changed since then!
OK, folks, onwards and upwards!
![Warcradle Studios Reveal TINY New 10mm Festive Marker! [Updated]](https://images.beastsofwar.com/2025/11/christmas-kyle-main-600-338.jpg)
Did not see anything like that coming ?But as long as it’s the best thing for everyone involved it makes sense. I’ll really have to try and get up early to listen in this week…..
oh.
Think that sums up my thoughts!
lol
“I heard you struck my son”
“Yes, sir, I did.”
“May I ask why?”
“yeah, well, because he stole John Wick’s car, sir, and killed his dog.”
“oh.”
I know it can’t have been an easy decision but given everything that 2020 has thrown at us and the uncertainty for the future, this is the right thing to do. I’m proud of you for having the courage to take this step. Very best wishes to Warren, Lloyd, everyone at OnTableTop and Wayland Games. Onwards!
Thanks @greywulf really appreciated 🙂
Cheers @greywulf
Despite my personal grievances with Wayland and how they treat their customers / suppliers, I do wish you all the best. OnTableTop has been a fantastic website to check in on for new content.
Thanks @isinfier and both us and the management team at Wayland see this as an opportunity to try and get the best of both of us – and build from there.
I’ve been working quite closely with their management team over the last weeks (last couple of years in fact but very intensively recently) and I have found them to be really genuine people who want to do a great job and are very diligent. Hey, they (and definitely US!) make mistakes, but there is a definite commitment among the folk I’ve been dealing with to do the right thing and build better where they can.
Good folk.
Could have been worse,like GW taking over!?
Good luck with this. Hopefully it works out well. I believe you used to work with them in the past so hopefully everyone is on the same page and knows what to expect from each other. I hope you are allowed to maintain your independent opinions and aren’t encouraged to focus on their products or give biased reviews.
I’ve never been to their store before, but don’t they have a venue, or at least a good sized play space? Might it be possible for some future boot camps to be set in the mainland, or possibly hosted at both sites? My companies head office is about 4 miles away and they put me up at the Skylark hotel, 4 doors down. Its not the finest place in the world, but its right by the airport and its usually empty so OTT could take over the place and hopefully negotiate a good deal for a group booking.
While its sad to see you giving up control, I’ll follow your team wherever you go. You have my best wishes and I hope this serves to open up more opportunities than it takes away. I look forward to listening to the radio show on playback in the morning.
Thank you @lawnor! Really appreciated.
Yeah, bootcamps and physical events are still on the back burner while we deal with this whole covid thing, but certainly, the plan is that when they return we have a lot of options to expand how we host them.
Also being part of the larger group opens the opportunity for us to send the team to more events and run more activities at those events. So we hope to be able to get closer to the action with a lot of the community 🙂
If I understand whose who, didn’t some of the Wayland staff you used to have on BoW help work at BonesCon/Smogcon? That ended last year forever. Perhaps in a post covid world this new merged company could look in to resurrecting smogcon in its newer game agnostic format? I suspect Jon Webb still has a garage full of tables etc he wants rid of. I know post covid could be 203x for all we know and theres a lot to deal with first.
I know you’ve got other things on the brain and this doesn’t matter, but as I’m already talking about it, there hasn’t been a smogcon for a few years. perhaps its time to remove the button for it down to the bottom right of this screen?
Wow.. no way that was an easy decision. I’ve watched the BOW project grow now for many many years, and you’ve been willing to take big chances before. Always, you’ve stayed true to what you believed was right and best for .. I hate to say the “Brand”.. more like the entity that BOW/OTT has been. I truly wish Lloyd, Warren, and the whole crew all the best and hope this ends up being just what you need to grow to the next level.
Cheers @hearne thanks for supporting the team here at OnTableTop over the years!
It’s people like you that have made BoW and then OTT possible 🙂
Thank you @hearne we really appreciate that mate 🙂
Future, huh…. Who can foresee it….
This is very true @shingen mate – so we can only do our best 🙂
Selling out (in purely business terms) and effectively taking on an employer means that you are sackable, and my concern is that BeastsofWar without Warzan et al is not a desirable outcome. I’ve seen mergers before, and they always quite sensibly result in duplicated roles being axed.
In terms of viewership and events, we turn on, and turn up because of you guys, and I dont see what Wayland are going to bring to the table in terms of the consumer.
This is my initial gut reaction, and I’m a bit concerned.
OTT is the team. Get rid of them and it becomes something else. I come for the people, even when they are talking about something I don’t care about I still enjoy it because of them. Wayland would be fools to change staffing.
“even when they are talking about something I don’t care about I still enjoy it because of them”
Like SAGA!
You’ve actually gotten me interested in trying it, even though I’m not usually in to my historicals. I hope you one day actually do the fabled playthrough. Given its not supposed to be the simulation, so much as the version told down the pub later, it might be cool to see you and Gerry narrate your own game dressed as Vikings down the pub, after the end of the game? If I was capable of getting games in I’d be looking at saga. If I ever catch up on my painting I might assemble a characterful saga force just in case. See the power of your personalities? You’re selling me on stuff I shouldn’t like. I’ve spent a lot of money I shouldn’t have because of you lot.
One of us!!!
Hey @intelligentmistertoad / Michael,
The two teams actually complement each other and there’s not much overlap in job rolls.
If anything this will help fill a few holes here and there, and allow individuals to be more focused on important rolls they have, so that’s great.
Cheers
Lloyd.
Ohh I think they are on the same page as you mate, a huge part of the agreement was based on us making a long term commitment to the project. Which we agreed to do 🙂
So unless I’m a total arse, you should be seeing plenty of me 🙂
Naturally, I hope that it all goes brilliantly, Any concerns I have are based around you chaps continuing doing a splendid job, with OTT and the Bootcamps.
Hey, we enjoy you being a total arse! That’s what I pay my sub for 😉
Agreed
I second that vote… I think.
Me too…
This channel needs more arse, it’s a winning formula :-). Hope Wayland realise how lucky they are to have all of the OTT team on board and doesn’t mess with the formula too much. Congratulations all and very best of luck in the future. Looking forward to seeing more great content!
Though not a business owner I am head of operations for my company so can understand and appreciate the many issues you have struggled with while coming to this decision.
I have no doubt than any decision made in the spirit of BOW/COG/OTT that you’ve all worked so hard to achieve will only be a benefit for the hobby on the long run.
This is a real opportunity for all involved. It won’t be easy, but when I’ve had tough times I’ve watched XLBS and just escaped into some hobby. I am sure that the community will do the same for you guys. We’ll be here, we turn up each “Saturday” and “Sunday” morning after all!
Thanks for supporting us @brewer1980
We think just like you, that this is a real opportunity and are excited about the future.
It’s tuff to implement plans far into the future when your a small team of people and especially now with what’s been 2020.
This is really a step in the right direction for solidifying the OnTableTop community and allows us to work towards even more cool stuff for the platform in the future 😉
They are out of stock for their Saga 2nd Edition rulebook though… you may want to sort that out as a priority..
lol Saga books always go out of stock, they sell themselves.
I should have pre-ordered, oh @avernos you still reading yours 🙂
Thanks @brewer1980 really appreciate the kind words mate
I’m sure this was not an easy decision and that it has been made with everyone’s best interests. I look forward to seeing how it goes and seeing you guys on my screen each week.
Also for all these troubles to be over so I can fly over for another boot camp (The wife wants to do a tour of Ireland as is so perfect excuse for another!)
When we get out the other side of this we will have to do the Bootcamp of a lifetime lol
As long as the team is staying to deliver the content then I wish you well … if you leave though, I will hunt you down, I will find you and I will kill you 😉
But have you the particular set of skills?
Skills that make me a nightmare for people like you!
lol
I am sure that you guys know for sure, what is the best for your company and employees. Be yourselves and
be as good as always and you will have my humble support. I think one of the first BoW videos I have seen, was a co-op
with Wayland for Dystopian Wars back in the day. So I hope you will cover that game again, when it hits the shelves. Best wishes to the entire team, as always!
Cheers @masterdwalin that was way back in the day.
i’m crying, still trying to digest the loss of “beasts of war” name and now this.. hope it works out, meanwhile i’ll fill my nostalgia cup with some very old BOW videos and read some Re roll magazine.
@wazarov – we all have your back mate 🙂
as long as we can still see all of you, our favorite characters i’ll be fine 😉
Given the uncertainty of the times and the fact that both of you are family men, having some sense of security must take a great weight of your minds. How you two managed to run a business, provide that much online content and remain married is a miracle. All the best for the future.
lol – we have very understanding partners lol
Personally speaking, I’m looking forward to throwing myself into the areas I love of content and platform development for the community, and I’m happy to leave behind some of the stress of the bit that’s not a lot of fun – running a business. The management team will have folk that relish that stuff and I’m only too glad for them to fill their boots! lol
Warzan,
It’s probably too late … but have you properly thought this through? Now that you are an employee you may have to finally take that DIY manual out of its (dust covered) case. The ‘Other Halves’ always find ways of taking away any ‘spare-time’ gained 🙂
F**K that didn’t occur to me, @lloyd is it too late to pull out of this now – @athelstane has a point here!?!?!? 😉
Oh bollocks.
It needed a particular set of skills 🙂
This is a shame to hear. Glad you guys are sticking around though. Hopefully you can secure your future and that’s the main thing 🙂
Unfortunately Wayland have a terrible reputation in the industry at the minute and there are always plenty of replies from gamers who have had issues with them, regardless of where the post is, and advising to stay away whenever someone asks about buying minis from them.
Like everything time and effort are the only solutions to that. We will do our best to help where we can. But I’ve got to say the difference we have seen in that company in terms of scale and systems implemented over the last couple of years has been pretty astonishing.
I think most folks don’t actually realize how much they have developed. But again maybe this is a chance for us to show some of that – and lift the curtain a bit.
Talk about big changes and major news hitting me first thing in the morning. Wow, that is a big deal and I congratulate you on making it happen. I applaud Wayland for seeing what an incredible community and resource OTT has really grown into but I really respect Warren and Lloyd for making hard choices to keep said community not only alive but hopefully multiplying. I have really enjoyed watching this grow and have found it to be one of my key sanctuaries in these crazy times so I am very happy to know you all are doing everything you can to keep it going.
As has been said by others already, the people are what make this such great place and Wayland would be crazy to mess with the recipe. It certainly sounds like they agree and it is a good fit for both sides. So, let’s break out the dice, paints, and minis because I’m on this ride for the long haul!
Crazy times indeed, glad we could be a fun place for you 🙂
We have always leaned towards fun in everything we do and we will keep you covered @144artist 🙂
Thank you for the very kind words @144artist – very very much appreciated 🙂
So, back home now. (Of course Warren needs to break such news at that exact moment when I’m about to leave office to go home! Why do you hate me so much!??!11? *g*)
As I said in the discord:
Me, the grognard: CHANGE SUCKS! I WANT EVERYTHING TO STAY AS IT IS!
Me, the realistic one: yeah… we will see what will happen
Me, the romantic one: This will be great! Everything will be bigger, better and more awesome…. AND WE WILL HAVE WAFFLES!
I’m torn. Mainly because to me personally Wayland is an unknown entity in this whole equation. And having seen what happened to many small companies I like in the video games industry when they got gobbled up big a big fish… I reserve judgement.
Especially if I think back on what happened to Heidelbär when they first partnered with Asmodee, then became Asmodee Germany and all went downhill. I am a burned child so to say.
BUT(T) I’m not giving up hope. It would be easy to say “the writing has been on the wall” because Warren really pushed the YouTube channel and tried many things to get people to become CoGs. But to be honest: every community does that in these days.
I will be staying a CoG at OTT for the foreseeable future, I will continue with the unofficial Hobby Hangout and will stay in the forums, project system etc.
On the note of uHH: Warren, please tell the guys at Wayland not to sue me. It’s only fun 😉
I think most people already said similar things and will so after me but: To all at OTT, thanks for the fish, keep up the work and I hope to see you for a long time around.
Best wishes from Germany,
Tim
PS: and if all goes to hell, Some Dude On YouTube will welcome you with open arms 😉 (Sorry, could not resist that one)
PPS: does that mean no more licked candy in the parcels?
We licked a lifetimes supply secretly before we signed 😉
“does that mean no more licked candy in the parcels?”
How much more saliva do you have @warzan ?
I always thought that is Justins job?
Yeah, but don’t tell anyone.
I read this in a German Accent. It’s way better. VE VILL HAVE VAFFLES!
There is an idea for tonight’s show…
Crumbs I survived birth, then school, then basic, then combat in the Balkans and the Middle East, I then got through BoW becoming OTT, then COVID decided to put its nose in. I got to say I was initially shocked that OTT is joining forces with Wayland Games, as my personal experiences with them have been plain awful and their reputation is pretty low in the wider community. I hope the bad parts of Wayland are cancelled out by OTT and that OTT still functions at the rock face as normal, not withstanding what is happening in the background.
I will finish by saying all at OTT have been instrumental in saving lives by helping those with mental conditions and getting people to see the joys of doing our hobby. I have never met any of you and consider myself a FanBoy, and will support you as best I can by being a CoG. All the best Andy.
Thank you for those words mate. There is hard work ahead, but everyone I have dealt with has been really committed to making a success of this – we can only do our best 🙂
Does this mean that the Beast Store will close and everything go through Wayland in future?
I shop at both online stores (and others), so just curious what is happening about that side of the website.
No aside from benefitting from their scale, we continue as normal. We will obviously be looking at options to make things better but that will evolve over the coming weeks and months 🙂
Wayland has always been fine for me and Ironically discovered them through BOW so can see the connection! Hope that this is the start of something bigger and better. As long as OTT continues, I’m happy and wish you all the best going forward.
Oh and more Wild West Exodus!!
Thanks @hazyboy75 – we’ll see what we can do lol
Wayland have let me down several times over the years.
If the option to keep the store open and have it managed by Wayland or closed… Close it… so you can walk away with a clean 5 star rating and not have it tarnished.
Hope that this merger has given the team some stability and that any new changes will be measured and in the same tone and ethos of the great community built up so far.
Time will tell mate, lets see if we can get the best of both world out of this – none of us are setting out to have a worse service than before – we are genuinely hoping the benefits will flow both ways 🙂
Not trying to be negative. Joining with a big company will probably have plenty of benefits. Just I seem far from alone with not being impressed with Wayland regardless of their market share.
As long as the team feel the benefit we’ll be happy.
Well I’m a Polish Lancer didn’t see this one coming….but then neither did I see Covid (says he in quarantine again). I think My best comment is I’ll reserve judgement, think Sundancer summed up my thoughts.
I wish you all well and hope it works,with not too many changes as you have become friends amigos etc over the last couple of years and have often been the little bit of light in some dark years .
Hopefully the zany bootcamps and all the madness that is OTT will continue on for the better.
That’s our hope as well mate – we’re not making any flashy promises – just a commitment to continued hard work to get the best outcomes we can during these unpredictable times. 🙂
There is a program on Netflix about the people who did predict it. Worth the watch.
I was hoping that you guys escaped most of the issues this year has piled on us.
And I am sure this wasn’t an easy decision to make when you have poured your heart and soul into a project like this.
But as long as you guys (all of OTT) are here and can make the content you want, the way you want, the COG’s will be here to back you up. Because that’s what we are here for.
Thank you @caledor2 – really appreciated mate! 😉
Having been around since before 2012, when Backstage was first set up, this as a ring of familiarity about it….
I can remember the old NI studios with Andy and Daryl.
Then came the move to Wayland’s offices in the UK.
And then the move back to Ireland due to a “falling out” with GW.
I can foresee a tension between the love of 3d printing and the corporate need to support the lines Wayland sells and even produces, presuming Warcradle Studios is still attached.
Nice to see you take up that Town Hall suggestion, though it isn’t under the circumstances I thought you’d be running it.
Best wishes for the new course you are charting.
Feel free to jump in on that mate 🙂 – I don’t see an issue on the 3D printing side – but we will wait and see – Wayland happen to have some of the fanciest 3D printers on the market – so who knows maybe they will let me try it out lol
Well I did finally join the Discord.
When you put out the announcement for the Radio Show, NZ is now on summer time – not that today’s weather really reflected that – so we are now 12 hours ahead of you, not 11. So the Christchurch start time will be 8am.
And I do see the industry heading more to 3D printing, just not at the speed that you initially thought, all those years ago 😉
Well, that’s some sudden news to unpack. Have to say I’m more terrified than excited, but that’s only because I know very little about Wayland.
I’ll keep the faith as you guys never fail to deliver, I’d definitely prefer a little change than closed doors. Here’s hoping for a bright future for the team.
Thanks mate! – Should be a good ride from here 🙂
I thought BoW started out with Wayland Games? Or did BoW just have a close relationsip with Wayland in the early days. Many a weekender did I watch in the early times and Waylands name came up quite a bit, so it should be a good fit.
Both teams became a thing around the same time, so we have known each other for a long time now.
I remember a previous partnership with Wayland Games and I also remember it having to come to an end (which I think was some kind of legal issue at the time). So as surprising as the announcement is, the choice of partner is not a surprise and given the evolution of both businesses, I actually think that it could be a very promising move.
I also think that Wayland’s reputation is perhaps tarnished somewhat by the sins of the past. I have had issues with them and for a while I stopped buying from them (not least because I don’t actually live very far from Element Games). However I have purchased a number of items from them recently and found that the service is vastly improved and the webstore is really good with live stock levels. Obviously the real proof is how they deal with things when they go wrong, however if you get nearly everything right the mistakes don’t matter so much.
I would really like some kind of video update about this when you have more details, until I wish the whole of the OnTableTop team all the best in the future.
Very sensible and balanced.
I get it. People have had bad experiences with Wayland. So have I. But I have had bas experiences with element games too. And amazon and so on. It stings when it happens and you want to lash out. But I realized a truth quite some time ago. Generally when you do that the only person you actually affect is yourself. Wayland games obviously get more than enough things right to continue trading so if I choose not to buy who is losing out and what point am I really making? And if I react this way to every company who gives me a bad customer service environment how long before there is nobody left who I can buy from? Sometimes you just have to suck it up and get on with life. If a retailer has actually broken the law and victimised you in some way the maybe you have grounds for not associating with them. If it’s just poor customer service experiences then you probably need to do a bit of introspection on that. Businesses tend not to make decisions based on emotion, a lesson customers should pay heed to
Why spend money with a bad business when there are plenty of good ones to support. Always had 5star service from OTT store. Just had some great customer service from Orcs Nest (owner went in to the store, checked stock, emailed me, and posted the order to me the same day).
Any number of reasons
Because eventually ALL retailers will give you a bad experience. If you cut your nose off to spite your face you will find that there is nobody left to buy from.
Because sometimes you can’t find the item you want elsewhere or a particular retailer happens to be offering a better price
Because a bad experience does not mean that all experiences will be bad
If I put my mind to it I can probably think of more. Basically you should try and remain pragmatic
Hi @onlyonepinman it’s great to here you’ve had good experiences. We also think that with a bit of work this has great promise 🙂
“I would really like some kind of video update about this when you have more details” well I know @warzan has plans to talk more about it at 8pm BST Wednesday 14th October Discord Server in a live chat.
I don’t really do discord to be honest. But I am sure more information will be made available when it’s available
You gotta put you and your families first, best of luck to you all.
I have loved watching beasts of war grow to what it is now over the years, what does this mean for the future? I really hope the videos continue, watching the weekender each Sunday feels like I’ve got my mates round for brew, we all need you guys in our lives…
I said this on Facebook and I am going to repeat it here:
A few people seem to be focusing on Wayland and their stock practices … I really am not worried about this, I like OTT for the content and for the people making that content (Warren, Lloyd, Gerry, Justin, John and sexy furious Ben) and as long as that continues I am happy.
Wow – I’m not sure how I feel about this – sad I think.
I mean, it’s great if it means you can continue to push OTT forward. But I know within my gaming community there is a very low opinion of Wayland – in particular their inability to run an effective online store. So much so, that none of us use them any more. And if they cannot manage that, how are they going to manage something as brilliantly diverse as OTT?
Either way, if you are still here, I’m still here supporting you and wishing you all at OTT the best of luck in your new adventure.
Like you say we are still here and your still here @berger15 – thanks for the support, we hope to keep you informed and entertained far into the future.
Hopefully you won’t feel sad for to long 🙂
@lloyd I think I’m sad more because you and @warzan have had to sell the business you built up. Something I’ve watched change and evolve into a thriving hub, with a diverse range of gaming coverage, a brilliant community and where the hobby comes first – there is so much support for each other here. And it’s sad to see you have to relinquish that control to someone else, who may not have that same belief. I suppose I also fear that not all CoGs will be happy to support Wayland in the same way they support you – and that would be a shame.
Hopefully it will all work out great and I’m just doing my usual “worrying about change for nothing”. 🙂
Happy for you guys and glad that you have a good outlook on the future! You’ve had my support throughout the years and that won’t change now 🙂
Thanks @neves1789
I’m sounding like a broken recorded, but people like you have been a godsend for helping OTT become what it is 🙂
OTT/BOW was a major factor in getting back into the hobby nearly a decade ago and its been a pleasure supporting you for all these years. On a personal level best of luck with the future and this is all perfectly understandable as it hasn’t been a great year, the gaming centre obviously couldn’t flourish and you have families to look after.
On Wayland Games I did use them at the beginning – partly because of the BoW connection and had nothing but problems with every order. There is no reason for me to go back as a customer, but maybe things have changed and other parts of the company are better as I’d like Firestorm Armada to flourish. I hope it works out for you as you want it to. Change is inevitable and OTT will change. Whether or not I’ll still be drawn to OTT as before we’ll see.
Hey @captainventanus – glad we got you back on the plastic crack!
Here’s to a few more years 🙂
Sorry to hear the change is necessary but glad to hear you will all be sticking around. All the best on your new adventure with all of you on board it’s going to a success. Look forward to seeing where yourselves and Wayland take this project together.
Cheers @ands
Wow … this is big.
I felt a little sad when I saw th title, but I think it’s best not to dwell on the negative emotions this sort of news tends to invoke.
BoW survived the transition to OTT and (dare I say it?) it became the better hobby community/website as a result.
Fresh blood, new faces, more content …
And now this.
I’ve only ever heard of ‘Wayland games’ by name (didn’t they help with the Starwars Legion stuff for the virtual bootcamp ?), so can’t comment on what they are like.
However I do trust the decision by the OTT team for it to be a good one.
Best of luck with taking over the world of hobby one step at a time.
Does this mean the OTT Store will transition into Wayland Webshop ?
If they do then I hope they copy the indexing/category from OTT, because it’s a hell of a job finding anything there.
Anyways … think happy thoughts and sending positive waves.
“BoW survived the transition to OTT and (dare I say it?) it became the better hobby community/website as a result.
Fresh blood, new faces, more content …”
Thanks @limburger that was a big decision too and thanks for your trust 🙂
Much like @sundancer,i’m torn in different directions ( i’m not good with change either ),but a business has to grow and evolve,which BoW/OTT certainly will with Wayland ( I second the suggestion of the fabled SAGA Let’s Play ).I found BoW after a friends recommendation and stayed for the people,the Let’s Plays and the many,many laughs I’ve had watching your shows ( although my need for mind bleach has gone up because of them as well ).
ah mind bleach, well I think you will need plenty more lol
I should get shares in the stuff…
I have to say I’m surprised by this announcement. I genuinely hope that it works for both parties but I would be lying if I I said I had no reservations about aligning with Wayland games. It’s been quite a while since I last used them because of your store and the difference in experience is world’s apart. I suppose the two initial concerns I have are over targeted marketing to align with what’s on sale in store and with key partners; and the potential loss of the independent stockist from getting an advertising boost. Your Indy of the week segment has been excellent at promoting these guys and I’d doubt very much they would have viable business models to sell via a third party if that’s the way it goes to get air time on the site. I know you guys do the tongue in cheek “buy merch!” Thing but now you have a partner who’s key business is selling us a “captive audience “ if you will, I fear the tongue in cheek attitude will take on a more serious tone.
I genuinely wish you all the very best with this venture, I have got so much out of it over the years and met some brilliant people through the forums, bootcamps and helping out at UKGE. If it secures your future as a team then I’ll back it 100%
But tongue in cheek attitude is our thing!
Glad your having a good time on the site and thanks again for your help at UKGE! @brucelea
Oh well, change is the only constant.
sure is mate.
Wow. Are you guys back off to Essex again? 😉
One thing is I guess the industry’s changed a lot now that Wayland are allowed to talk to you without GW getting cross.
Best of luck to all concerned from a past, and future CoG.
Nobody in Essex could understand me lol
That’s ok.We ( people outside of Essex ) don’t understand them either.
First, congrats @warzan and @lloyd!
Second, and this might get covered in the town hall session, so no need to update here, what about the content we CoGs have uploaded to the site? One of the reasons I’ve been comfortable using BoW/OTT (especially the project system) over social media platforms has been the the trust in the owners that the content won’t be used for their purposes, and I know the team genuinely cares for our privacy. All that has to be reviewed as the ownership changes. If we’re not comfortable with the change, will there be a way to export our data and have it erased from the platform?
Thanks @guillotine we will keep you guys posted.
So, as many, I’ve been having a difficult year, in fact I’ve not logged into BoW for about 10 months I think, I have 200+ notifications when I just looked.
Hobby has been on a backburner for many reasons, but I saw the notice of an announcement on twitter and had to look.
I thought the time when you were partnered with Wayland before produced some really great content, so I’m pretty positive about the changes.
I know personally how difficult it can be to let go of a business you built up, I remember the erection of Studio One in the garden and so on, you guys put everything into this and I’ve always respected you all for that.
My backstage sub will keep going, and I hope I’ll be able to actually be a part of the hobby again at some time before this god forsaken year is done.
Good luck to everyone and I am looking forward to what will come.
Thanks @nogginthenog hope you have a better year in 2021 and get back into a bit of hobby.
Now that is some news, hope it all goes well for you.
But the bigger question is when will Wayland buy Yutani? 😉 And yes I know it was the ohter way round in the Alien universe.
Yutani humm, some time in 2099 I think.
Well this is I have to say was a bit of a shock… I personally have had issues with Wayland Games… However if this basically removes the sales element of OTT to allow the guys to concentrate on providing content and things like Bootcamps I am in support.
I just hope there is iron tight contracts that protect the team and make sure WG can’t fuck up a good thing.
Were going to keep doing our thing mate 🙂
Having worked with several of the studio team over the last couple of years and having created content for them, all I can say is welcome to what feels like a family more than anything!
Hi @huckleberry, glad to here that mate 🙂
That was a surprise, but when I first saw the facebook post saying there was an important announcement I thought you were closing down, so this is better. I can only assume that with the difficulties of 2020 it was either this or go bust, so I will force myself to view this positively.
I hope this works out for everybody at OTT and perhaps alleviates some of the stress @lloyd and @warzan must have been under since the lockdown.
closing down – nope we are sticking around like a bad smell lol and 2020 has been a Mind Melter for sure @danlee.
This one caught me by surprise but with hindsight I suppose it shouldn’t have given the uncertain state of the world. I look forward to seeing you go from strength to strength with this new direction and best of wishes for the future to all the team.
I hope, for all our sakes, that this will be a success for you all. I fully believe that you guys can stay relevant and entertaining regardless of who owns the business, as long as they do not try to leash you all. I know business is business, so I hope there will be no screw jobs. Good luck guys. I will stay around as long as you guys do.
Hey guys, best of luck with the new chapter, quite the surprise to see! Just got myself home from a manic day and am having a read.
I love you guys and all that you have created over the years, Its awesome having such an organisation from “home” and Ive always looked up to you all!
I haven’t dealt with Wayland for years after having been put off, cant remember what all happened to do that, just know that Ive gone everywhere else since! My only real concern is loosing you guys as my local store so to speak, You have provided fantastic customer service and the whole shebang. Will have to see how that all plays out I suppose!
But yes I wish you all the best of luck and hopefully things will improve for years to come. PS fu*k 2020!
Marty
Congratulations, I hope that you give yourselves a couple of days off to celebrate.
Thanks for the good times thus far: I have enjoyed the OTT innovations in the hobby space.
Hopefully you keep on collaborating with such luninaries as Corvus Belli, Firelock games, Mythic Games and Warlord (to name but a few).
I look forward to what you will be able to produce next.
All the best.
So there is possibility that OTT might be able become even bigger with backing of bigger group. That is if it doesn’t require you guys to work yourselves to death because that wouldn’t be good at all.
Goodness I hope this all works out and it doesn’t change what makes the team great. I’ll remain optimistic that it’s all for the best in an uncertain world. Good luck with the change. Interesting future for all if us.
Here we go, here we go. I can only offer my best in your future venture. I am very pleased you are keeping the shop open, it is as close to the yoyo as they will alow you. Please stay in the land of the leprechauns it did not go well last time ( you got kicked out of England.
Don’t let anyone buy your depth. Good luck, I will be listing tomprrow.
Sad news. I have had fantastic customer service from the OTT store. Wayland is a site I go to only to browse the many things they don’t have in stock. Will the OTT store remain separate from Wayland? Won’t bother if it is integrated in to their store.
I hope this works out and secures your future output of great content.
Change always bring uncertainty, and I’m feeling naturally wary. However, it sounds like this is a good decision to bring more resilience at a very challenging time for businesses, and it should allow the team to focus more on the areas that they actively enjoy whilst palming off the unwanted responsibilities onto others. I’m optimistic in hoping that should translate into better content if the core essence of what you are about is retained.
Don’t you lot think your escaping that easy lol I sign on for the crack as much as I do the gaming. I’m hoping all the team we know and have gotten used to these many years continues well into the wayland future.
I know covid has been a bad spanner in many businesses plans however as someone shielding you have kept me sane and occupied I’d hate to see you go or slow down.
On a positive note though reading the comments a mainland venue for boot camps is very appealing.
Whatever the future brings though I wish you and all the team the best for you and your families.
Well it is a part of life that things change and in the current economic climate no one can fault you lads for making such a choice (certainly none of us who don’t know the ins and out of your business and how hard/easy it was to make ends meet and move the business forward). I just want to wish you guys all the best with this move; I do hope it pans out for you not least because you smelly lot deserve it! 🙂
Never an easy choice when it envolves your baby ,but you either sink or swim ,and I’m sure you’ve chosen wisely…..can’t wait for Friday and Sunday…one of the only reason I put the tv on now
Great to hear you have secured the business and the livelihoods of all at OTT but Wayland have an absolutely terrible reputation for customer service and there are lots of tales online of customer dissatisfaction
Let’s hope you guys can show them the way too do things.
Shame you didn’t team up with Mythic or Warlord.
Will always be a BoW or OTT fan and supporter, can’t say the same for Wayland unfortunately and I hope they are going to leave the day to day running of OTT to you guys. I assume it’s going to mean more Wayland adverts on the platform, and possibly in the weekend shows?
It’s you guys that make the OTT brand what it is, and they’d be stupid to change it as they’d lose everything and everyone who loves it. Too many times hasa company taken over a winning formula, changed it and wondered why it has failed.
The main reason for it’s success is the team that’s been built around it, long may you continue
Oh no!!!!!!!! I’ve had heard nothing but bad things about Wayland and the one dealing I had with them was dire….. I really hope this works out for you guys….. Maybe Gerry won’t have to wait nine months for his next order from them now though ??
is that likely… I don’t think so 🙂
Sorry to hear this news guys. I do hope this change will be positive for you and OTT site will keep on going and delivering great content. That was definitely one of the positive sides of 2020!
From the filing history it looks like, since yesterday, Richard from Wayland Games is sole director of the company. Hope you still retain some grip on OTT site future / strategy. All best.
As a member of this community, I hope that this merger allows both companies to grow and become greater than the sum of their parts. I’ve enjoyed the journey so far and this will just be another step along the way to wherever the destination is, so I look forward to seeing what it brings. (I’m hoping even more great content 🙂 ).
As owners of the business, I hope that this was not too tough a decision to take. It would be sad to think that this was forced on you due to the wider circumstances. I also hope that the rest of the OTT team are well. Given the year that we have all had, changes and worries at work can just add to the pressures of life. Make sure you all take time to discuss the impacts this might have on each of you and ensure that the whole team moves forward together.
But good luck with the merger and the immediate plans to bring the two companies closer. I’m looking forward to seeing what this brings.
Hopefully you both got paid, you deserve it. You’ve worked harder than most, sacrificed a lot, and have earned the right to reap the benefits. Most of all I really hope this deal does that for you personally.
You don’t owe anyone anything but I for one hope the personalities we know and love will stick around. Because that’s where the value in the business is for me. If not, it’s been a good run and I wouldn’t change it for the world.
Wow will defiantly be tuning in this Wednesday to hear the low down guys.
As a long time backstage member and now a cult member, I wish the the whole team at OnTableTop the best always. It has been a rough year, and if it keeps the team together I am all for the merger. I tune in every week to listen to the banter on the hobby we all love, and will continue to support the platform. Looking forward to the future!
As long as all you boys are still around for silly buggers on the weekender. Especially you Warren. For some reason my wife loves your voice ??? I hope this frees up more time and resources for you guys to do more great things….And llyod and Gerry to do a full SAGA battle and report….Dressed as vikings I heard someone suggest..Cheers
At first hearing about the sale from another COG I thought it was a joke.
Decisions like this can and are a very tough thing to make as they don’t only affect the owners but their staff too…..and I know first hand how you guys care about others.
Have followed the platform from BOW to OTT way back before they teamed up with Wayland before.
I know there were some legal issues with GW and you had to part company….I hope this time that both companies grow from this merger and the platform that @warzan and @lloyd have nurtured and cultivated will continue.
We all came for the laughs and have stayed for the coffee and cake.
To all involved we are all rooting for a great future for the GREATEST war game platform! May it continue.
I have made great friends coming to the boot camps that I would otherwise not had the opportunity to make may that continue!
Myself Stewart ( mad Joker ) my better half @caileendeas (Helena) mad female joker from the time we renewed our wedding vows with you guys will keep supporting 100%
Love you guys
@dignity @avernos @lloyd @warzan John
Tom working behind the scenes
All other People not front stage that help the gears turning( you know who you are)
Wow that’s incredible and shocking news. Good luck for the future guys. What does this mean for the shop in Coleraine?
Congratulations guys. Any change will be met by some reservations, but change doesn’t have to be seen negatively. Indeed, this can be viewed as a great opportunity to champion even more the independent company product lines such as Oathsworn, Diehard, Studio Miniatures, etc. (As OTT/BOW successfully do) and this will create a comprehensive portfolio of gaming genres (historical, fantasy, sci-fi, horror, pulp, steampunk, etc.) across various platforms (board, tabletop, RPG, etc.) and resources that can over time rival the juggernaut that is Games Workshop. OTT will be a key CoG in the new order – I’m glad I became a little CoG during the first peak of Covid in order to save my sanity, because all now bodes well…
“If you dare nothing, then when the day is over, nothing is all you will have gained.” (Neil Gaiman, The Graveyard Book)
Hi mate, do you realy think Wayland will champion games etc that they don’t sell?
I’m hard-pressed to name a game Wayland don’t sell. They are pretty system-agnostic that way. 🙂
Oh indeed
Does this mean the end of front stage and back stage?
No more let’s plays with Gerry and justin? No more let’s play demos like the lardies and other companies?.
dhmmmm,,,,, this must have been hard to choose. I think that it was an opportunity given the circumstances. Who could have predicted 2020 and really the dramatic affects. I can see giving up one’s own hard work to be a part of something else but there will always be some sadness as comes wit change. Not an easy choice and hope it’s the right one, let’s see where we all are in 1 year and afterwards.
Unexpected, but interesting news that seems to bode well for the future of OTT. Fair shout guys
As long as the deal made Warren and Ludwig millionaires I am quite fine with it.
Best of luck Boy/Gals may your future be bright!
Sail up quietly along with all this piratey stuff and then open the hull ports to fire a broadside with the news, you have. Behind the scenes there’s more going on than even gets to us so this makes sense. My heart goes out to everybody out there and I hope that this move will allow you guys to keep keen focus on the content and not worry about the bills.
What a kick in the nads!
2020 just had to find a way to “F” with my world.
IF you say it’s a great move and a good thing then I’ll keep pulling for you guys!
I wish you all the very best with this endeavor.
I am concerned for my family, (my brothers and sisters of the hobby – the OTT/Beasts of War family).
I see the possibilities that you speak of and I hope that they happen, and yet I also see the other possibilities of a guiding hand telling you that you can’t tell jokes like that anymore. Or you have to embrace the latest ‘Social Media Outrage’ and ‘virtue signaling’ and make statements that drag politics and/or drama into our hobby world.
I get it, change is a constant. (I’ve always hated that phrase)
I’ve been a parent for 30 years……..so concern for my family is something that I can’t shut off and not do.
I am concerned………concerned for my hobby family.
Hoping you all the very very best. I’m not much of I hugged but I’ve been getting better at it, (so my wife tells me), and I really feel the need to give out some hugs……if my arms could reach across the big pond I’d hug you all. @warzan @lloyd @avernos @brennon @dignity @johnlyons and all the others behind the scenes.
.
.
.
.
(don’t think I’ll be able to sleep now. guess I’ll just make an espresso, better make it a four shot espresso. if I’m not going to be able to sleep I might as well be wide awake for it)
This is what has happened to Board Game Geek. Sadly the site is now more interested in being ‘woke’ (a term I really don’t like to use but the only one that fits) than it is about games.
It’s a fear I have too – there’s nothing worse than seeing a tight-knit community suddenly told they are an -ist or suffer from an -ism, just because hashtag tw*tter. I love that this is a place where it’s about the fun of the hobby, the community engaging and helping each other, the ribbing and the jokes, and just making all the hobbies the best they can be.
@templar007 “I get it, change is a constant. (I’ve always hated that phrase)” and I used that exact quote. Sorry buddy. :p
As a Yank, I have no frame of reference for Wayland Games. All I want to know is does this mean you have to go back to filming Weekenders in the park in the rain again?
The problem with Wayland seems to be with the way they run the online store. If items are in stock it is probably okay to order. Unfortunately they have a lot of items marked “Restock Expected: Available To Order” which really means ‘we have no stock, no idea when it might come in to stock (if ever) and will hold your entire order for months with no communication’.
I think maybe and hopefully others will back me on this in regards to this latest development,the important question is….
Has fan cam’s future been secured as part of this deal?
Fancam has its very own contract lol
You brought me to historical wargaming with the FoW series. Especially the ‘nam week:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DCW6gI-eUC4&list=PLiqW3i2L-21WFqzA6Sdt5BS7fg9-7bRkZ
@andre77 that was BRILLIANT, and incidentally, what got me into BoW and Historical Wargaming. I’ve never looked back and am utterly grateful @warzan.
Like many people shocked but if it’s the best thing for you guys then all the best .
And if leads to more content from you guys then all the better – it was beasts of war that got me out of my warhammer shell and playing /collecting other games – think it was warren running around salute one year….
As for waylands service record , to be honest I’ve had some slow orders sometimes , but most… have been lightning fast , and this year when I ordered something that went unavailable from supplier they messaged me first and kept me up to date …and where very good through the whole process .
Here’s to the future
Whilst I’m surprised this happened, I had a feeling something like this was on the cards, BoW/OTT is far too good a company not to be bought by someone wanting to expand their reach into the hobby ever further.
One question have @warzan and @lloyd been given positions on the Wayland board so that they have a say going forward?
No one likes change but I sincerely hope that the new owners are smart enough to not mess with a good thing, they have just bought a huge community of gamers, a meeting place that was and hopefully remains to be brand agnostic, and as long as the team continues to have the freedom to produce the content they want to produce then there is no reason for alarm – in the immortal words of D-Ream “Things can only get better”
If you check Companies House you can see who has ‘significant control’ of a limited company. Wayland is owned and controlled by one person.
While the news is suprise, if it means less stress for everyone in the team about the future then it sounds like a good idea to me. I have been around long enought to remember the last hook up with Wayland and that was what got me into BOW/OTT so this doesn’t seem that scary.
Just as a countepoint to all the other comments – I have been ordering from Wayland for years and never had an issue. They are no OTT store, but very little is.
Good luck one and all, and don’t let 2020 grind you down.
Since Wayland sells “board games, card games and all that other shit”… It does me Warren will be happy unboxing a copy of Hasbro heroquest when it hits Uk retail..!!!!!!
Hi there, Would this affect the pricing of OnTableTop products? As BoW was my entry into 40K thanks to the discounted prices (and not to mention the best staff ever) , I’d like to keep supporting the store. Thank you for the past year of service and I look forward to seeing the future of BoW :).
Whatever comes ive got your back! Ill try to dial in to the Discoord session
Best of luck lads on the latest stage of your journey to dominate the wargaming world
Guys, this is… unexpected. I’ve been a ‘beastie’ almost since day 1. I joined Backstage immediately and I’ve followed your adventures for over a decade. The Daryl, Andy, John and Sam years and everything in between. My club in Thailand have won a couple of your competitions, and I have loved the entire journey. You guys really do connect with the hobby on so many levels, I sincerely hope that you are in no way ‘diluted’ by this takeover. I remember the Tabletop Nation days and your relocation and then return to a garden shed on the back end of it all.
I have every faith that this decision has been well considered, but I am a ‘little’ worried. I wish the whole project the very best of luck!
How will Cult of Games Membership work going forward?
That subscription still going to be in place to keep the site running, or will that money now go to Wayland Games?
It appears that all money now goes to Wayland Games. Clearly the CoG income is a revenue stream that supports the site, and one assumes will have been part of the calculation of the ‘value’ of Beasts of War Ltd and Roll Together Ltd by Wayland Games.
Sadly can’t make the discord hang, but I assume you’ll have something in the weekender or XLBS.
Congratulations to you all (I think… time will tell), if it makes things easier and more secure for you all then that’s a good thing.
Keep up the good work
Because of Beasts of War/ OTT I…
1) Found my local gaming Club
2) Discovered the UKGE
3) Rediscovered my love of the hobby
4) Found my online friends
Thanks to all you guys for many great times. I look forward to many more.
I am proud to be part of this community.
Wow! This must have been a huge decision to work through mentally, emotionally and all the other ally’s.
Wishing you guys all the best on this new adventure and hope it works out bluddy amazingly for you!
We fear change and incoming disconnection.i come for the crack and escapeism not to mention you blokes . Cant help but feel sad about this endeavor.
This project, team and community have had a significant impact on my life and provided more than once a sanity shelter in the midst of a storm. For that reason, and for the quality of both the people and the content that compose this pocket dimension, I will forever be faithful to the Beast of War.
I fully understand the need to dedicate time to one’s health and family, and to leave behind overloads of stress which only get heavier as one ages. This is, in my humble opinion, a wise decision. The team stays together, unencumbered by the muggleish organizational duties and free to give way to their creative instincts!
Best of luck to you all on this new league of the journey. You know that whatever awaits around the bend you will always have a friend here 🙂
This project, team and community have had a significant impact on my life and provided more than once a sanity shelter in the midst of a storm. For that reason, and for the quality of both the people and the content that compose this pocket dimension, I will forever be faithful to the Beast of War.
I fully understand the need to dedicate time to one’s health and family, and to leave behind overloads of stress which only get heavier as one ages. This is, in my humble opinion, a wise decision. The team stays together, unencumbered by the muggleish organizational duties and free to give way to their creative instincts!
Best of luck to you all on this new league of the journey. You know that whatever awaits around the bend you will always have a friend here ?
I wish you all the best in this move Warren & Lloyd. I truly hope Wayland paid you both a HUGE pile of cash for this because in 18-24months time you would have overtaken them in sales! Basically it was a defensive move from Wayland to take down what was likely to be their biggest competitor in the next few years. I have had a couple of bad experiences with Wayland in the past (as I believe several others too), so I think they were also buying you both to improve their PR which is pretty bad at the moment tbh. This is a great move by them, not so sure for hobby content in the future. I can see in 6 months time…
“Welcome to the Wayland Weekender! This week we’ll be talking about Wild West Exodus yet again and the new Wayland Games terrain set…”
Thanks for this @icanmix, I was wondering what is in this for Wayland.
I’m a bit too cynical to believe it is for purely altruistic reasons, like keeping the “BoW/CoG project” alive.
I am willing to be proved wrong.
Thanks, @icanmix – Yep we will have to wait and see, but I have seen nothing so far that would suggest that. 🙂
Regarding it being a defensive move, obviously, we are a little flattered folk would think that and if there was a touch of that behind the decision I’ll take a little bit of pride from that – a little badge of honour lol
But honestly being at the coal face in this industry for as long as I have I can see pretty clearly the herculean effort that would have taken for us to achieve something like that, especially on our own. 🙂
Perhaps we can all benefit from this but as you rightly show in your wariness, we all have to ensure we do actually nurture the thing rather than a shallow approach. But again I have seen nothing but encouragement from the management team so far that deep and lasting (and meaningful) benefits are what we’d all like to see come out of this.
But yes, time, commitment and hard work will tell 🙂
Congratulations on the sale! I love Wayland games
I must say that was a tad unexpected, i’m like a fare few of the replies not a big fan of Wayland. But you guys got me back in to the hobby after a 20 year break, so for that i will be ever grateful. Also if it means a more secure future for you all then thats always a good thing. Hopefully you will continue to make me laugh watching the weekender and XLBS for many years to come.
Well after more than 7 years as a backstager, I’ve finally cancelled my subscription ? even though I didn’t use the site as much as I used to, I stuck with it this long because I liked supporting a family business. A juggernaut like wayland games? Not so much. Oh well, good luck guys, hope they weighed you out well ?
Are you going to start complying with the laws that require that sponsored content and advertising is clearly identifiable as such? https://bit.ly/3ke1tko
Hope it goes well, and you don’t have to buy that desert island to escape to
good luck. I come here for you lot. My only concern is i have just started ordering from your shop and ordering from weyland is spotty, especially with their definition of if something is or isn’t in stock seems to be be based on Schrodinger’s cat as far as anyone can tell. I once waited for a year for a whirlwind I had paid for and in the end just gave up even trying to get the money back from them
I love you guys and the videos, I would like some assurance that the online shop wont go a bit Weyland.
Well done for making a hard decision. I trust all you guys to continue to be the creative, informative, dynamic and profanity-filled inspirations we have all come to know and love. I don’t get to listen to the radio show live, as it airs during the work day in Canada, but I’ll listen in to the recording now to get some context and strong language.
Good luck with this new and exciting era!
I’m annoyed very annoyed… I’m going to throw my rattle out of the pram and have an on-line tantrum… I may even make a YouTube video ranting about how annoyed I am.
Not…really I think this is a good mood long term and it makes sure everyone is more secure job wise until they screw up and get a visit to the headmaster.…;)