Cult Of Games XLBS: Submariners & Stone Age Wargaming!
November 8, 2020 by warzan
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It’s the XLBS Show………Happy Sunday CoGs!
I remember reading about ‘The Amber Room’ a long time ago. A mystery for certain.
I will always love the ‘Bond’ movies. All of them and for what they are.
I bought about 30 telescoping mini antennas for a game that has flying in it that I’ve been working on for about six years now. I just grabbed them from eBay. Bought in bulk and paid very little.
I tired the ‘Predatory Stare’ while looking at my wife just now……she told me to “Stop it, or I’ll knock your eyes into next Week!”
***So participate in this challenge at your own risk!***
.
@lloyd can you recommend any shops that stock ‘Lesure Suits’ for this new challenge coming up? Thanks!
.
Congrats to @carlospictor for completing and doing a great job on ‘Age Of Sigmar Arena’.
I bought one of these plastic arenas to use with the game ‘Sons of Mars’ which OTT showed off when they visited Historicon in 2019 https://www.beastsofwar.com/liveblogentry/bonus-post-game-on-those-who-are-about-to-die-salute-you/#snav I even bought a Toga to wear while playing the game, but alas, I’ve never finished the arena so I’ve not even tried on the Togo! @carlospictor you may have given me the inspiration to finally get some paint on my arena. Thanks!
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Smiffys-Mens-Borat-Mankini/dp/B07CBFJ3WN
@lloyd I presume your going to have to wait till next year now to wear your new bathing suit
Happy Sunday!!!
@warzan I woukd just play this http://irregularwars.blogspot.com/p/palaeo-diet.html. Written by a nice Australian chap living in the Crumlin area
“We need Octopussies” – that was Rojer Moore, not Sean Connery mate.
?
It’s not an area of war gaming I’m familiar with, but I’d echo Gerry’s suggestion of looking into aircraft rules (and add in spaceship rules to cover more bases); I may be mistaken, but from a Physics standpoint, I believe that theres little to no difference between the mechanics of flying and the mechanics of swimming, so anything that satisfactorily models air combat should also satisfactorily cover submaritime combat.
Regarding the topic of what counts as pre-history and mammoths – did you know that mammoths were still knocking around long after the Egyptians had built the pyramids?
On the topic of humans’ predatory abilities and evolution, thats one of the reasons our ancestors got along with wolves so well; both humans and wolves are pack animals, so over time each came to seethe other as an extended part of their pack/family and both being geared for. Teamwork meant that it. Was easier to work together to bring down larger/more dangerous prey. Also, both humans and wolves are edurance runners; we may not be particularly fast compared to other animals, but we can maintain a run for longer, so one hunting method used by both is to basically chase after their prey until the prey keels over from exhaustion (way to think of it is something like a deer or lion is a sprinter while humans and wolves are marathon runners).
Happy Sunday to all CoGs.
Little Wars TV had an episode where they gamed WWI aerial combat. They had the aircraft on telescopic flight stands, and if I remember correctly, there was a mini tutorial on how they put them together.
I’ve always thought Bernard Cornwell’s Stonehenge novel had some great ideas for Prehistoric gaming.
Have a google of Otzi the Iceman.
For underwater gaming after gaining entry to the wreck how about a underwater dungeon delve. Parts of the wreck could have air pockets with risk of flooding. Thinking Posiedon Adenture here.
Is it Dropfleet Commander that has height / level mechanics ?
Scratch the above,it’s not nearly anything like the guys were talking about.
At 3:20 – Lloyd is seeing monetisation slide away yet again. Bless you fellows.
lol every week
@warzan The Stingray rules came from Pete Merritt and possibly John Treadaway for Salute but that would have been at least 20 years ago but they used to have an archive of rule pdfs. There was a Tirpitz v X-craft game that Salute did which was “Hunt for the lonely queen”? which had an article in Wargames Illustrated which detailed how the game worked and also about the terrain which should be in both archives.HLBS used to make a range of submersibles and sharks can’t recall if they had divers as well. Scheltrum used to make Victorian style Captain Nemo divers and Crooked Dice do divers in scuba gear inspired by 1970’s movies.
@warzan might I suggest episodes 4 & 5 of Black Lagoon? Mercenaries in the mid-90’s who in these two episodes are tasked with salvaging a U-boat sunk in the South China Sea. Queue hilarity as a shipload of Neo-Nazis turn up. Bonus points for resident gunslinger”Two-Hands” Revy getting to mess around with an assault rifle modded for underwater firing….
https://www.netflix.com/watch/80061249?trackId=155573558
Telescopic flight stands…
https://www.debrisofwar.com/store/c19/Flight_stands.html
If you guys out there come up with a set of underwater rules, don’t forget sharks with lasers.
Happy Sunday all, some great golden buttons on show this week ?
Lloyd: “If its big and hairy they think I want to climb up inside that”
The real reason Gerry won’t go in to the studio these days.
A prehistoric tribal game screams KD:M to me. Its not about the individual its about the settlement/tribe. Add that behind the Rangers of Shadow Deep game play and you could have something interesting.
“Lloyd: “If its big and hairy they think I want to climb up inside that”
The real reason Gerry won’t go in to the studio these days.”
Oh you just made my day XD
miss u gerry lol
That a prediction of 2023?
Morning all,
@warzan I vaguely remember there was a Waddington style board games with minature divers done for the underwater battle in Thunderbaĺl, think it included the sub.
Found this
https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/8005/james-bond-007-thunderball
Which has standees from a quick look, but I remember advert which had figures.
I did have some tou soldier Thunderball divers in the traditional black and orange from the movie.
Lloydy is correct about the bases for the telescopes or segments. A friend Amos did a WW1 game using brass rods, which he painstakingly made using 2 guages of rod, to make lego style rods. But had to have a hefty metal base.
There is a U.S company who does telescopic bases for air games, but no idea the name.
But you can get the arials on line in bulk, I have a bix full, but never solved the base problem.
Barbarians is set in AD 7 and the Teutoberg Forest incident. It’s well worth a watch.
I thought it was just German Star Wars fans shouting at FFG ” Where are my Legions “
Almost… a bit… maybe…
Loving it so far.
I loved the joy on Bens face when Warren sayed no code busters This week.
They are itchy allegedly I’ve heard? Lol
What about these one’s guy’s.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/5X-Replacement-49cm-19-3-6-Sections-Telescopic-Antenna-Aerial-for-Radio-TV/313287537747?hash=item48f1647453:g:6fEAAOSw~hNfo7FB&redirect=mobile
@warzan I would highly recommend getting a copy of The Origins of War by Arther Ferrill
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Origins-War-Alexander-Revised-History/dp/0813333024
I got my copy on EBay for a few quid, it’s well worth a read especially the prehistoric sections.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/124382891903
By the Neolithic period farming was taking hold and settlements were springing up everywhere.
I would look up Carn Brae near Redruth as there is evidence of an battle around the enclosure.
Over 700 flint arrowheads were found scattered at the site. Despite nineteenth-century destruction (work to level and widen the entrance track), there was a concentration of arrow heads around a probable entrance to the enclosure, Mercer’s site E. These arrows may have been used by a large group of archers in an organized assault upon a defended site. Every timber structure on the site had been burnt, and charcoal was the only organic matter that survived the acid soils. The earthworks may have been deliberately damaged by invaders.
Have you not seen some of the odditys roming around most town centre’s Friday night’s the stone age is alive and kicking?
Lol
https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=captain+caveman&ru=%2fvideos%2fsearch%3fq%3dcaptain%2bcaveman%26qpvt%3dcaptain%2bcaveman%26FORM%3dVDRE&qpvt=captain+caveman&view=detail&mid=9CC6FE79816F73E811399CC6FE79816F73E81139&&FORM=VDRVRV
Happy Sunday all.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_aZ2bdnG97A
You will lose they have Bam bam Warren.
As seen in the Groots?
Happy Sunday! Looking forward to Lloyd’s new war game crabpocalpse.
I’m writing now 🙂
Great new projects,love the show guy’s.
Guys, guys, don’t go for dubbed! Just watch Barbaren with the people speaking latin and German. Gives it some extra flavours.
Is that an option on Netflix?
Version I’ve watched had German dubbed to English and the Latin was subtitled.
@lloyd,go into the audio & subtitle options,you can switch it to the original german with english subs.
00:00 Ok, thumbnail is promising… but where did you find that picture of me in my young days?
00:56 “Wanker” in deed…. *sips coffee*
02:49 “That’s Nazis” …. wait… what?! oO Don’t scare an old German that early in the day.
04:00 What the hell is an amber roo? Some sort of weird Australian animal?
04:10 Oh… the Amber Room… well that is a thing on mystery. And I can’t absolutely assure you it is not in my basement.
05:30 “I’m decorating the shed just like that” – So @warzan has found the Amber Room and is now plotting to hide it in plain site! Cheeky!
07:40 “Karlsruhe” isn’t that difficult now… “Carls rue eh” *inaudible German ramblings*
15:00 Isn’t there a WW II fighter plane game which also includes the 3rd dimension? I recall seeing it at Tactica 2019
16:30 that “assumption of levels” is also a part of X-Wing. That’s why small fighters can’t crash into another but into capital ships
20:30 nicking crabs… there is a joke with a prostitute in there somewhere…
22:00 “…end up with crabs…” see, told you.
28:00 Maybe someone should set up Chinese manufacturers to watch the XLBS. The amount of “if only anybody would sell these” would lead to some interesting emails XD
28:20 You lot stay out of my basement!
28:45 No @brennon they don’t come from the moon. there is a hidden base beneath the Karlsruhe (After all it’s “Karls resting place” if you translate the name by it’s meaning)
30:20 rules for under water play? what about oxygen reserves?
36:15 The Mandalorian was good you say? My, had I only know. If there only would be a podcast discussing all things from a galaxy far, far away… *cough* https://www.beastsofwar.com/project/1578746/ *cough*
38:40 resurrecting a scuba diver after 10 years… that’s a necromantic challenge XD
43:30 Saaaaaaaaaaaaaagaaaaaaa
48:15 Saaagaaaaa again. XD
53:30 If grabbing wood makes one a joiner then every human male on this planner is a joiner at some point of his life! 😉
55:50 I love how @warzan tries the predatory stare while barely containing smiling and laughing… 😉
56:00 It’s not a predatory stare as such but an entry to a contest… but I think it qualifies https://youtu.be/epUud31d03g
58:00 the kind lady really speaks from my heart…. really.
1:00:00 prehistoric tents… every man like to build a little tent now and then… and before he knew what he did there I consider that prehistoric
1:05:00 “Please hold the line. The @brennon you are trying to reach is currently not available” XD
1:16:00 Only two of three project have been seen on the uHH…. I need to get better at predicting 😉
1:17:00 Celtos barbarians could work on pre-historic I’d think.
1:18:00 “Quest for Fire” great movie.. inspired an even greater Iron Maiden Song.
That’s it. Happy Sunday!
Going to need to find Quest for Fire for watch for sure.
Love the idea of some underwater fighting game.
As you sat discussing the problem with extendable bases being top heavy and falling over, I began to see a bespoke gaming area with regular board and terrain, but then above it a clear perspex sheet on legs with all the divers suspended down on extendable aerial bases. Not exactly sure on the details, I see myself more as an ideas man rather than a problem solver, but I channelled my inner @warzan and couldn’t think why it wouldn’t work.
The clear perspex could open up possibilities for surface encounters, but more importantly in my opinion, it would mean you could really go to town on the ‘terrain’ for the surface of the sea bed.
Re prehistory. If you are talking about Northern Europe we are talking up to the pre-Roman iron age for “pre-history”. Of course, that only defines literacy levels. Technology levels are very different – Old stone age, New stone age and bronze age are increasingly sophisticated in technologies – “new stone age” tools are very sophisticated (look up “Otzi the Ice Man” for an excellent example – https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%96tzi). Old stone age was by definition less sophisticated and less civilised – the population was very small at the time. Bronze age was incredibly sophisticated and was the period when huge and numerous monuments were created – Stonehenge “henges”, etc. Think about the level of sophistication in society to be able to organise, and fund (i.e. produce and co-ordinate the food and time needed to allow your workforce to be away from subsistence activities for the time to create the henge). Of course it is a moot point whether that sophistication was applied to warfare – for instance, is there any evidence that large scale warfare was a thing at the time – assuming there were lower populations and there was less pressure on the land etc. Anthropology has something to say about this – and tends to infer that large scale warfare wasn’t common in tribal societies, not because it couldn’t be done, but because it was wasteful. Of course, once a prehistoric society has gone beyond tribal in nature, then anything is off. Look how warlike and organised the early Mesopotamian civilisations were – and I can imagine that in the few decades before they discovered writing they were probably only marginally less martial.
So I think I am saying, just because we don’t have the written records that describe the way prehistoric society worked, there is plenty of evidence from archaeology and anthropology, as well as late-bronze-age literate societies (such as that of the biblical Kings David and Solomon) that they were equal in sophistication and resourcefulness to what was out there once writing was discovered. We will have to infer a lot of things simply because of the lack of historical record, but I am pushing for something that represents an intelligent and organised society, rather than a few near-apes running around clubbing each other with mammoth bone, which I think is a bit of an unjustified stereotype. Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence!
It sounds weird, but if you remove the fantastical element, then the scenario described by Robert E Howard in his Conan stories is something like, in a way, what I personally would imagine for prehistoric society.
Of course, if you want to go for a hunter-gatherer, tribal, crude level of lifestyle – before farming, before weaving, before the discovery of copper and even gold, then the Old Stone Age is where you are at, at the very dawn of prehistory, long before civilisation was a gleam in a neanderthal’s eye. But even then… look at the cave paintings in Trois-Freres (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cave_of_the_Trois-Fr%C3%A8res). Just because technology was simple, doesn’t mean it was crude, and it most certainly doesn’t apply a low level of intellect. Also, we have to bear in mind the limitations of anthropology. Studying hunter-gatherer societies hidden in remote areas in the modern age, while giving us insight into how hunter-gather societies work, doesn’t necessarily translate directly if we are talking about a hunter-gatherer society that wasn’t restricted to remote locations, but was the common and dominant form of society at the time.
Cave-man rights! I tells ya…!
happy sunday,
everyone.
interesting subjects, got me thinking it wouldn’t be easy to magnetize your figures and put a magnet on the base rod, at different heights and then you can always measure the distance from the base rod.
and click on and off the figures when necessary.
there is another good film for inspiration about the ice age where you can see a mamoth hunt and saber-toothed pussy in action, also good for inspiration for, terrain ideas.
ALPHA is the name of the film, I believe it was on Netflix this summer.
????
I think the reason why you don’t see many underwater games is actually the terrain. Not many people want to build an entire table of terrain that is so different to everything else and probably not usable for another game.
Meanwhile trying out a deep sea game on regular terrain lacks the desired feel do probably puts people off the game if the system doesn’t click.
I’m not sure that the terrain is necessarily incompatible with other games, particularly if you have waste land or desert terrain. The seafloor is mainly sand and rocks. It starts to diverge if you add in things like kelp forests and coral reefs, plus any sunken wrecks. The reality is a lot of the seabed is pretty sparse in terms of such features, although you might get some very plain looking tables with just some hills and ridges.
At that point though the board may not feel very thematic. I would want to feel like I’m playing in an aquatic environment, not on a parched desert but with fish and less interesting terrain.
The immersion comes from thematic pieces and those are probably not going to be that useful elsewhere.
wrecks of ships
You’d need to weather them in a way that fits either setting though otherwise it could look weird.
3d rules? Deadzone has some good ones. If you ran with the “cubes” idea it would work. As for terrain for underwater – don’t we already raid the aquarium section of the pet store for plastic plants and sunken galleons?
Happy Sunday, I have stood in the Amber Room ( which is reconstructed from elements that were found) I have a a picture of me in the room it looks garish to in the photos but it’s absolutely stunning in real life.
On underwater games the NWS did an underwater naval game based around sinking the Tirpitz with x-craft it was a lot of fun and we won a trophy at Salute for it.
@warzan Metagaming Concepts produced a microgame called Sticks & Stones. It’s been out of print for decades but here’s the blurb:
DESCRIPTION
STICKS & STONES is a game about warfare in the late Stone Age. Each player arms his warriors, as he sees fit, with stone axes, spears, bows, or just bare hands. Trained dogs, dependents, herds of domesticated animals, goods, and village raids, ritualized battles, migrations, and the beginnings of true warfare between more powerful villages. A special solitaire scenario allows a single player to command a group of hunters attempting to kill a mastodon. Optional rules provide for the use of fire and poisoned weapons.
Thanks for the button! Glad you liked them!
I’d like to point out to @graystoke that I was off last week so I didn’t have any say in who got a button
I’m sure he’s already sorting another project he can put the finishing touches on to get back in the game!
Ben looks like he’s freezing to death in his underwater base. Dashing Jaques Cousteau cosplay though 🙂 The biggest reveal in the new Mando episodes is what the Tusken Raider stick/club combos are really for imo.
@warzan Crooked Dice Miniatures makes some scuba divers for their 7TV range. And I think a modification of the Drowned Earth rules could work in a completely underwater environment.
There is a kickstarter for a prehistoric wargame called PrimeEvo.
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/861915065/primevo?ref=user_menu It is supposed to have mammoth hunts. Sort of a Kingdomdeathish civilization managment thing. I backed it and am aleady working on dinosaur models to use for it.
Also by the same company(Cardboard Dungeon) is Carniverse a dinosaur apocalypse game.
Also got a few recommendations for minatures. The first for sharks and sea monsters, prehistoric animals and divers is the the Honorable Lead Boiler Suit Company.
https://www.hlbs-redux.co.uk/
Antedilluvian Minatures makes a line Of Old school style Harryhausen dinosaurs and some based on the first dinosaur models in Crystal Palace.
Finally there is Kayakasaurus. Great sculptor who has his own youtube channel. He sells small numbers of casts of hist work on etsy.
thanks for the heads up on Kayakasaurus very cool
On the topic od pre-historical games there is a lot of freedom in choosing what you want to depict as it is very hard to get it ‘wrong’. I’ve got quite a few pre-historic miniatures for a hunter-gatherer force and have used Copplestone (which are fantastic) and the Savage Germans that he did for Foundry’s Ancient Germans range.
In support of @lloyd I would agree Saga (taken for example) would be a good rule system and there is no need to design your own battleboard as the Skraelings board which is available as a free download from Studio Tomahawk would be an excellent option.
We do know a fair amount about some battles in the pre-historic era, even in Northern Europe. See the archaeological finds at the Tollense battlefield for a major conflict site of the very early Bronze Age that features some significant wooden battle clubs and ‘mallets’. https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2016/03/slaughter-bridge-uncovering-colossal-bronze-age-battle
I’m sure while at Salute a couple of years ago I saw a space combat game that had multiple perspex levels to represent different levels. The spacing would have to be big enough for you to get your hands in (6″?) and the game area would have to be small (perhaps 2′ by 2′) but at that point your play area could be a cube. Rulers might be cumbersome but you could use a grid movement system. Natural swimmers can ascend and descend at diagonals (I believe fish etc tend to largely remain horizontal as they swim), while divers or octopus style swimmers are allowed to ascend or descend directly.
When it comes to pre-history it can be very difficult to get details on anything that pre-dates the Romans or the other well known civilisations. Earlier this year I wanted to start a historical game agnostic force. I picked the Celts, but I wanted to do Roman era Celts rather than medieval era Celts. I really struggled to find much information on the topic. Most sources actually write about medieval Celts and assume that their culture hadn’t changed much over the centuries. If a civilisation did not keep their own written records then all we can depend on is the written records of their neighbours, which is often biased.
Happy Monday evening!! Am I late?
Watching this a bit late and can’t be arsed to review the comments… @warzan, google the rule set “tusk” it’s available I think thru irregular miniatures
I really like the idea of underwater or zero gravity warfare. On the topic of stone-age warfare I’m not so sure, at least for as far as it concerns pre-agriculture times. I think it was in Humankind: A Hopeful History by Bregman that he mentions that there is very little evidence for warfare before the rise of agriculture and civilisation. Apparently, warfare also needed to be invented…
@warzan I recently found a KS with egyptian style terrain if you are looking for something stylish were your Irish Guard can take cover
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/iain-lovecraft/desert-adventures
Telescopic bases
https://www.victrixlimited.com/products/hawker-typhoon
I’ve been putting together a box of Vitrix Typhoons and a box of Stukas over the last few months.
I’ll try and post an update to my Flames of War project with them on the weekend
Prehistoric Settlement V2.
The new rule book is available now!
A game all about cavemen wargaming and surviving in the Stone Age.
https://www.stevebarbermodels.com/…/Prehistoric… Welcome to Prehistoric Settlement. The original stone age simulation wargame. For those who have not played the original game. Settlement is a miniatures game set in our ancient past. It is a game of survival and warfare, where your people must collect resources and hunt to create more people and buildings to enlarge their tribe and develop their Settlement. The game uses dice to determine results. It is a game of great strategy, whilst battling the unpredictable natural world. The object is to take the few people you start with and create a settlement full of characters and then to take on a rival players settlement and try to destroy them. The world of Prehistoric Settlement allows you to take a few people and make them a tribe. Build them the settlement they need to survive and watch as it grows. See your tribe swell in numbers and help them learn new skills. The world they live and die in is fraught with dangers. Watch out for the savage beasts and the awesome forces of nature. When your tribe have grown, create a force of warriors. Crush your enemies and conquer their Settlements and lead your people to victory.
You get deeps wrong @warzan, board should be above you and base should be telescopic and magnetized, thats the way to go,