July 14, 2011 by dignity
Warren and Darrell sit down to give you guys your first look at the new Grey Knights Codex, what stuff is new, what is old and what was removed... lets take a look.
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Grey Knights: The only army that comes prepainted.
I’m hoping the FAQ comes out quickly to sort out the Dreadknight mess. With any luck it’s just going to say “moves like jump infantry but has the Shunt rule” (similar to giving a deamon prince the wings gift)
But until then I REALLY like Darrel’s cover save idea. Ni9ce one Cheese Master!
Nice bit of timing when you first mentioned the Death Cult Assassins. They were on the screen behind you just as you said their name.
I was actually looking at Grey Knights when I first got interested in 40k, back in ’05 (thanks to Dawn of War). Procrastination stopped me from getting one and then when I was seriously looking at starting a 40k army just last year, I found out that the models were all metal and that’s when my natural paranoia of super glue kicked in and I caved and got a normal Space Marine army.
On top of that, I’m now getting a Warmachine army thanks to Andy so I can’t afford to start a Grey Knight army now that they’re all in plastic. That being said, I will be sticking around to watch Grey Knight Week just to see what the army’s like now and who knows? My disposable income might go up enough sometime to afford a Grey Knight army.
I’ve been playing Daemonhunters since release, I think the new dex is kinda good, I’m not to much into fluff so that might be why 🙂 Like the models aswell, except for some “small” details… like the frekkin’ Storm Bolter mag’s on the PAGK’s! ! ! RSANFSA R/!#”Y% !R S NA What were they thinking!? The Terminators are awesome thou, bits-mania boxes *drools*
On the note of having some guard units, you can have Warrior Acolytes, kinda like Guardsmen, chunk 12 in a Chimera with some melta love maybe?
You can take servitors in a Henchie warband (servitors have melta). But make sure to attach an inquisitor to them or they may mindlock.
Agree with you and Warren about some details… The storm bolters looks like a shoe box and then you ad the mag… it doesn’t help it still looks bad! Then is like they forgot the details on that “half disk” on their legs… they have it on the arms but not in their legs like the metal ones…but the variation of poses and weapons kinda makes up for that.
In the Dreadknight department: if thats the case that a DK becomes a jump infantry then can you have six of them?…
Another cc-force to be blown apart at afar, with upgrades which are utter crap…
I’ll wait for this GK week to kick off to rant some more, but I’ve read the codex and believe its an utter waste and wonder how it got into print.
real quick… thunderhammers use the same rules as powerfists. powerfists “… , so attacks with a powerfist are always delivered at initiative 1. (ignore initiative bonuses from special rules, wargear, etc.)
as for dreadknight jump infantry… the winged hive tyrant basically has the same worded rules no? i think that would be a good comparison… what does the nid FAQ say, if anything?
as well didn’t the wording say “like” the intercept squad not “counts as”, in the entry for the dreadknight jump pack.?
as for it riding in the storm raven… i’d give the transport rules a read before allowing that one myself.
Tyranid wings is just a Biomorph, that lets you move like jump infantry, inclunding permission to deep strike, since this is a part of the “Movement”-rules of jump inf.
So, it’s not compareable at all.
Wel im new to wargaming in general and im starting my tyranid army, i love the backstory and the models look sweet. (used your nid week painting tutroial but used green on the carapace)
But now im stightly concert to learn that these grey knights and close combat specialists does that mean my nids will be shot up and beaten to a pulp by this army?
One final question is due to the grey knights being psykers what does shadow in the warp mean for them?
@xenautja
I’ve had the concern of Shadow in the Warp or Eldar’s Runes of Warding (if that is the correct one) being a pain in the butt to Grey Knights aswell, but remember to watch out for units with “Brotherhood Banner”, don’t let them near your MC’s because their Force Weapons activate automatically, which means your big stuff will die.
i’ve asked this question on BOW twice already, but i want this question featured. might of titan is cumulative with hammerhand…is hammerhand cumulative with itself? say a librarian joins a termie squad, can both the unit and the character use hammerhand? with might of titan, you end up with S7 termies, paladins, insanely powerfull characters and so on…sorry for posting this in so many places, but it’s the only unresolved issue i have with the whole book.
Is there any precedent that would imply that they wouldn’t stack?
I think I would punch someone who tried to make the Dreadknight become jump infantry. I know what the rules say… but COME ON! He should just be Monstrous with a 30″ Jump Thingy.
I think the Quicksilver guy with a Hammer would still be initiative 1. It says in the rules:
“attacks with a power fist are always delivered at initiative 1 (ignore Initiative bonuses from special rules, wargear, etc.)” Pg. 42 BRB
That’s gotta refer to psychic powers as well.
No shooting? Rifleman Dread w/Psybolt Ammo FTW! 😀
Looking forward to the rest of the week guys!
They Scrapped Inquisitorial Storm troopers!!!! Would have been perfect if not for that! Sigh!
i completely agree. what am i gunna do with my old ones now?
Inquisitorial Storm Troopers aren’t scrapped, they’re just “Warrior Acolytes with Hot-Shot Lasguns” now.
I would say that the increase to stats by Quicksilver is applied to the model/units stat line, and THEN any equipment effects are applied – so an In4 model would become In10, but then be reduced to In1 because of the daemon hammer.
It’s no different to items like powerfists, which double the models strength as it is on their basic stat line, ignoring any current strength bonuses.
i quite like the new codex as an old GK player. ok disappointed in some of the things gone, but overall not bad. the one problem for me is that at my wargames club there was me and 1 other daemon hunters player. now there are more every week, and most of them can’t even play properly. most of them are using them how they used their normal marines (and using their normal marines as proxies too). they simply don’t work like that. it used to make me feel a bit … special or powerful to be a daemon hunters player. but now it is just like i’m … normal. i don’t like it. and i don’t like the noobs who refuse to read the codex properly. especially when they think “GK are SM so they get preds” or “normal dreads aren’t heavy support”. i don’t mind it if i something simple that confused them but come on. try reading your codex.
sorry for the rant but it is just something i feel should be said.
This is my first comment on this site even though I have been registered for over four months.Up until now I have been quite content to watch the excellent videos and the varied commentry after each one.Having only come back to the hobby after a ten year absence and even then being only a collector,I have slowly built my own vanilla Space Marine army(no name as yet)to the point where I have to face the daunting task of painting them.
This brings me to the point I would like to make about the previous comments which left quite a sour taste in my mouth.As has often been said,at the end of the day its all just toy soldiers(and expensive ones at that),so why take things so seriously.Everyone has to start somewhere and who cares which army they collect or how they choose to play it so long as they enjoy themselves,and encountering an elitist attitude to the game does nobody any favours.
Anyway I apologise if I have caused offence to anyone,so on that note its time to go back into the wonderful world of working for peanuts,paying the bloody mortgage and trying to get up the courage to paint my Space Marines.
@ghostdog i know this i just a game but i’m a competitive person. these people weren’t even using their codex to make their armies otherwise they would have noticed that no preds are in their. THAT is what i’m saying not that they shouldn’t stop playing. re-reading it i can see where your coming from but they should at least read through the codex properly, especially when making lists, not just the parts that suit them or assuming things. surely you can agree with me on that?
I suppose when I look at my own fumblings into the gaming side of the hobby I would have to agree with you on properly reading the Codex.Back when I originally came to the hobby as a collector my models were bought because of how they looked with no intention of gaming ever entering my mind,so it didnt matter what weapon model or vehicle was used.
Now though I find myself reading and re-reading the codex and trawling the internet for the best possible loadout for a tatical squad or lamenting over the points cost of a thunder hammer and storm shield combination.
As Derell mentioned in one of his videos about bringing his codex into the toilet with him,I have been known to wake up in the morning with the bloody codex beside me.
To make a long story short,all this effort is so that when I finally get my army finished and am playing my first game(yes I am a complete NOOB)I dont make a complete fool of myself in front of the unfortunate person who has made the effort to show me the ropes.
So I suppose if you and I make the effort to read the codex then why cant the next person.
As I mentioned before no offence was intended.
While the models are beautiful and the army powerful and whatnot, I’m really sad that Grey Knights lost that “Inquisition brings the Imperium together” feeling.
Being unable to field them with SM or Guard is a big loss imo. Fluff wise.
@exile
Well, you can use Warrior Acolytes and give them Carapace Armour and Hot-Shot Lasgun, sure they are only BS3 but they can have 3 special weapons and you can mix in some other Henchmen to make a nice little squad.
Just started Gk’s
Im so excited to this week!!!
They r awesome!
Agree with the dreadknight pose, though its a fantastic miniature
KUTGW
Greetings from the Netherlands
Maarten
I like what they did I miss the STR 6 GK’s though. Not surprised about the mistakes with rules it is from GW and they do stuff like that all the time. Pretty funny though jump infantry dreadknight.
Is the Storm raven and land raiders dedicated for paladins if they are scouting with them is pretty cool especially out flanking. The librarian teleport move is neat can you assault after you move the unit?
Warmachine is way over priced and I do not really like it though they have great looking minis Heavy Gear is pretty tight though.
I will use the Gouff or the Fanfir from Gundam the Zeon units for Dreadknights don’t like the model.
For some army building, I have a friend that came up with a list apparently, that lets you give some guys “scout” at the beginning of the game. Then uses dreadknights in the scout move to shunt 30″ IN THE SCOUT MOVE!!!! scary…
Personally I can’t wait to see them do a Kaldor Draigo influenced list because he makes paladin terminator squads troop choices.
i’m sorry but The Summoning says:
The Librarian creates a warp bridge and summons battle-
brothers to his side
This power can be used at the beginning of the Librarian’s
Movement phase. If the Psychic test is successful, choose a
friendly, non-vehicle unit that is not locked in combat
anywhere on the battlefield. The chosen unit is removed from
the tabletop and immediately placed anywhere within 6″ of
the Librarian using the Deep Strike rules.
it would be over powered if you could use it on vehicles in my opinion
Problem is, you actually can use it on certain vehicles IF you purchase the warp stabilizer upgrade
Exactly 😉
We do get it right sometimes you know lol
I don’t think that The Summoning would be overpowered, because it still uses Deep Striking Rules. You have to place the models within 6 inches, but I think they’d still Scatter and be subject to the Mishap Table (seeing as it mentions specifically that they fall under the Deep Strike Rules)
As far as the debates go:
Thunder hammer rules use the same rules as powerfists, which specifically say their initiative can’t be increased through the use of wargear of special abilities, so you will always strike at I1 with them.
The Dreadknight; obviously, all you are doing is attaching a jump pack on his back. You’re not giving him a shrinking pill. He gets to move like jump infantry and have the teleport ability, but he doesn’t lose his MC status, so he still gets his 2d6 pen and can’t get cover saves from standing in terrain nor can he embark in a Stormraven.
It’s obvious this rule was supposed to work like the wings on a Hive Tyrant, but our “expert” author has struck again and given us bs wording. If you want to abuse this wording for fun, do it while you can before it gets faq’ed away. Just don’t count on making many friends with obvious cheese hunting 😉
With regards to the Dreadknight i think perhaps it should just say moves like jump infantry rather than becomes jump infantry.
Ive read the codex a lot since i got it but until i watched this video i didnt even clock that it said any units with the teleporter become jump infantry. Look at the size of the stormraven it’s hard to imagine 10 grey knights getting out of it let alone a dreadknight lol. The pose of the dreadknight should of been more easy to change such as the wraithlord.
Apart from all of this the GK’s do have some tank busting abilities str 8 psy cannons and also dreadnoughts set up with lascannon and missile launcher thow in a couple of razorbacks perhaps and then you have tank busting units albeit not as good as space marines but still something to be reckoned with in my eyes.
I cant help but wonder if a jump pack can even work on something as big as the Dreadknight. Sure the codex apparently says it does but damn im still fairly certain that the Dreadknight is just too big for a Jump Pack
They Grey Knights don’t acutally jump but rather teleport themselves around, which results in the same game mechanics as jump infantry.
I wish Warren would play a few games with the new dex first before he pushes the GK as the #1 starter army. Yes, they’re easy to paint and you only need a handful of models but the difficulty in playing them is still, and will always be, the low model count. Even with all the new goodies, it’s still going to take finesse to play them. You can hype the close combat prowess to the hilt but it won’t mean a bag o’ beans against mechanized armies. I can see a lot of younger players starting out with GK expecting to steamroll armies but becoming disillusioned very quickly.
You could say the same about most armies.
I think this could turn out to be a great army for new players – of course existing demonhunter players are gonna hate that.
New players that stick with it will find the finesse 🙂
Second that.
Every army has the “classic” auto-play list. Even necrons! ( There goes irony-a-ton)
I’m ok that this is the most versatile army by far,but for that reason I would not take it as my first option ( though hell, THEY ARE SHINY!)
I do think a thematic army ( shoot/assault/hide and seek) is a better army if you know where you are getting, but a pair of boxes of GK do no harm if you still don’t know which of those 3 rolls you want to play, though they are not awesome in any of those, they might get the job done with some skill, luck, and why not easy oponents.
The huge flaw I find in this army is that everything is so awesome you’d take one of each( 1st mistake), realising your first mistake you start spaming something that can be made troops by a expensive/dumb character cos regular GK troops are not good enought (2nd mistake)…. We all know a daemon blade never gives way to a third mistake mortal!
I mean it’s a “new army” and I’m ok with some “hey look they are shiny and cool!” apart from that: choose the one that you like the most game wise & looks cooler to you, if you are thinking of painting them maybe the second condition should be preferent.
Have fun!
you missed one of the best units purifiers
oh sorry i did not know that i just checked the summoning rule because i’ve read that again bow is awesome xD can not wait until your unboxings
This is my first reply and don’t take me worng, it is just i’ve usually just came arround to watch and did not really take the time to register.
I Must say I don’t agree with the assault thingy. This army is the most versatile, but when you get to compare with standard SM army, they do a lot better in shooting. Each has 2 shots at efective range 75cm, whilst marines have 1 at 60cm, or 2 at efective range 45cm. This army esentially outguns TAU in any aspect. Rending S7, S8 autocannons… No tau army can hold up to that advancing, no matter how much plasma they’ve got, they’ve got no where to go, just make the numbers with a regular 10 PAGK ( which, is only 30 points more than a standard SM unit, and you are getting all thoose awesome toys).
Hated IG cos’ of the Vet fusion in chimera? well wait to see 6 fusions in there, plus a monkey and some other stuff that is just dirt cheap.
On the other hand, they just don’t have that many atacks, so in CC they are stuck for a lifetime, I’d rather go with bersekers, orks, Nids, BA, and so on.
Right now my favorite unit is the crusader dreadnought ( yeah, I gave it that name, or I intend to do it :P) auto/assault cannon + autocannon + psyammo. Runs on 135, can do some serious damage on vehicles, and it still got 4-6 shots that usually wound on a 2+, 2-4 are twinlinked and the assaultcannon rending S7. For what you are paying, I think it is by far the most cost-efective unit in the book, at the very least within the Heavies.
this friday i’m trying this guy, we’ll see what he can do against a land raider :); till then, i’ve got UNI exams 🙁
Excellent first comment
Hope you stick around 🙂
I intend to, but exams keep me pinned down…
But that just lasts two or three weeks so… I’ll be arround 🙂
On Quicksilver, it moves everyone in the Librarian’s unit to I:10 for the rest of the turn.
The entry of Powerfist / Thunder Hammer specifically has you striking at I:1 regardless of anything else that modifies your initiative.
I DO think that statement is floting arround some FAQ, since quickening is esentially the same.
but anyway your reasonment is solid to me, I’ll stick to that untill i’m convinced of the oposite i guess U,U.
Please Warren, don’t ever say you want more fluff from Matt Ward. >_<
Im giving my dad back his orks and i am going to build a grey knight army thanks for the heads up to beasts of war
You know what the Grey Knights are missing? Cavalry.
Just imagine Grey Knights with stormshields and halberds charging across the battlefield on their mighty steeds to crash into the enemy.
I don’t get why anyone would moan about long videos: if you like BoW, surely its better? Just watch some of it and return to it later…the more the better!
So yeah what I think is…please no matt ward for necrons! But seriously the fluff doesn’t seem great from what I’ve read but oh well quite like the new models. I quite like how it appears they’re not broken too.
Whoah whoah whoah!
Darrel is the one against initiative 10 thunderhammers!?!?!?!
What is the world coming to when the king of cheese is arguing AGAINST a super cheesy loop hole I have ever seen (and I think this actually has a bases for working, based on what Warren said).
tsk tsk Darrel!
three years since i first picked up codex daemon hunters and i never had the money for all the metal models and now i can get them in plastic yay! (their still the same price tho witch sucks) 🙁 (but i have more money to spare)
What i don’t understand is that it also says in the interceptor section that only regular GKs can use the personal teleporter packs because terminator armour is too big…but a terminator piloting a 25 foot daemon wrestling exo-skeleton is cool that ain’t too big…
Sorry, but I disagree with you on this one…
Codex:
The codex is [Expletives deleted by the Inquisition]. The fluff has been completely mangled. A Grey Knight taking a stroll through the warp? Seriously? The warp…?
* Bangs head against table *
Grey Knights using daemon weapons and daemon hosts? Really? Daemons…?
* Bangs head against table again *
Painting:
Painting the models might be easy if you’re happy with a simple three-colour scheme. Paint silver, wash with black, pick out eyes in red and swords in blue…
However, the models are so full of small details that just scream out to be picked out that settling for a three-colour scheme is close to heresy.
Beginner’s army:
I’m not so sure about this. The army can quickly end up being very small – particularly when loading up on terminators. And small armies tend to be unforgiving.
Close combat army:
Ignore the ranged weapons at your own peril. There’s a lot of ground to cover if you don’t have some sort of long ranged firepower to soften up and suppress the enemy.
That being said, the models are drop dead gorgeous. Mangled fluff aside, I’m having a hard time resisting the temptation to paint up a few squads of terminators. If for nothing else, then just to use them in Space Hulk…
All I can say is Turtle Power!!!!
I’m not a fan yet by a longshot. I might respect them a little after playing against them a few times but they are not impressing me yet.
initiative 10 doesn’t make the thunder hammers rule different. YOU STILL STRIKE AT INIATIVE 1. DUH.
I persoanly hate the codex. Way too overpowered. Its just crap. Totaly unbalanced. You will always win, and that is not the point of the game.