The Weekender: The Apocalypse (Finally!) Arrived
July 20, 2013 by dignity
Video Sponsors: Infinity - Warmachine
Welcome to another Weekender where the guys have managed to get their hands on the Warhammer 40,000 Apocalypse sets. Let's see what the guys think of these massive kits.
Links:
Warhammer 40,000: Apocalypse
http://www.waylandgames.co.uk/games-workshop/warhammer-40k/apocalypse/cat_28.html
Convergence of Cyriss Breakdowns
//www.beastsofwar.com/warmachine/convergence-cyriss-force-breakdown-warcasters/
Dropzone Commander Previews
//www.beastsofwar.com/dropzone-commander/flee-deadly-dropzone-scourge-reaver-gunship/
//www.beastsofwar.com/dropzone-commander/prepare-bombardment-ucm-dropzone/
//www.beastsofwar.com/dropzone-commander/hawk-wargames-send-hades-massive-beast/
Infinity Anaconda Sneak Peek
//www.beastsofwar.com/infinity/infinity-sneek-peek-anaconda-mercenary-tag-squad/
Acquisitions Incorporated Choose Their New Buddy
//www.beastsofwar.com/dungeons-dragons/acquisitions-incorporated-find-questing-buddy/
The Fire Caste for Dark Age
//www.beastsofwar.com/dark-age/fire-caste-world-dark-age/
Mantic's Kings of War Week 2013
//www.beastsofwar.com/kings-of-war/mantic-delve-deeper-kings-war-week/
Release Watch:
Risk Lagacy;
http://www.waylandgames.co.uk/wizards-of-the-coast/risk-legacy/risk-legacy/prod_20158.html
M14 - Event Deck
http://www.waylandgames.co.uk/magic-the-gathering/m14/magic-the-gathering-2014-core-set-event-deck-rush-of-the-wild/prod_21800.html
M14 - Boosters
http://www.waylandgames.co.uk/magic-the-gathering/m14/magic-the-gathering-2014-core-set-single-booster/prod_20561.html
M14 Fat Pack
M14 Deck Builders Tool Kit
M14 Intro Packs
Happy Gaming!
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Hurrah Weekend at last
Just to agree with the rest of the internet – the Khorne Load of Skulls is dreadful.
I agree with @warzan
don’t worry Warren, it was said during the GW open day that all Datasheets are going to be re-released through Warzones and the like. My Armoured Interdiction Cadre is also not in there, but it will probably reappear 😉
Snap with ya there Warren, any knda Titan/Hound for chaos would have been better but considdering the two spru philosophy of the kits the yeild wasnt going to be much for the Khorne thingy. The tricksy thinking that went into the Necron whatever is the best of them. Baneblade…its the centre piece of Apoc, pity the spru ratio didnt expand to the other kits.
Yes, I want a titan and yes its a bit sh1t that there are no rules for one. Verry.
Now, wheres that backstage, oh yeah tomorrow isnt it?
I just wanted a gorgon heavy assault vehicle or a Crassus… But all I got was a riptide and a wraith knight
Warren, I’m 100% with you! Well I understand Stu’s argumentation, I think there is no good reason (except making money) to leave the total hobby section out of the new Apo-book. Maybe it will lead all the older players (like me to:)) to keep to 5th edition and build more lovely terrain and a Warlord on their own (like I do at the moment).
I have to admit the book is beautiful, but it had not been ugly if the added data sheets for models GW does not sell at the moment. Show some cool terrain and how you can build it. I just don’t get it, it all was in the previous book, why is it not in the new one?
I guess they could build a basic warhound chasis kit and have two kits of armour, weapons and head for chaos and imperial. I’d buy one……or two…….
Khornelord is too niche. Would have been nice to have a more mechanical option for weapons etc instead of torso/head. Then able to use it as mechanicum allies as a second option. Hopefully Forgeworld or Chapterhouse will make it so…..
Good healthy disscusion on the kits but how does the book work, any cool formations? I have never had the book or played it………..
baneblade thing Plague Reaper
Nice show again.
I actually own one of the original forgeworld baneblades myself, and whilst I’m not going to suggest GWs pricing policy is anything but insanity for buyers, I did pay, from memory, at least £150 for that when new, I can’t remember the exact figure they sold at.
I don’t like the khornemower either, and its models like that that sort of push me towards other games and away from the current 40K scene, its just not for me any more. We still break out second edition occasionally, and I still enjoy painting and converting my space marines as part of my hobby time, but for playing games I do think that other games offer more of what I’m looking for, and what initially attracted me to 40K , than current 40K does.
Infinity, X wing, malifaux is another I’m looking towards when 2nd edition appears, I’ve bought a victorias starter box already, I just like the ‘feel’ of those games better than what 40K has become.
A reimagined Necromunda would, though, probably take all the hobby money I would spend on the above combined, so I do think GW are very much missing a trick focusing so much on the dingle demographic.
And that would be single demographic, although a dingle demographic does sound like a new weapon for noise marines.
Hi all.
I have just tried to apply logic to the idea of Apocalypse.
And if we assume that the idea of Apocalypse is so EXPERIENCED/VETERAN gamers to grab everything they own and have a MASSIVE NARRATIVE battle.(Cool!)
Then do these people need to be told how to play this sort of game?
And if they do, surely they want INSPIRATION in the form of massive CENTER PIECE models and NARRATIVE driven senarios.
Rather than the ‘Hi kiddies, if you want to play Apocalypse BUY MOAR GW KITS!!!!’
(Eg Warren description/dislike of ‘cookie cutter formations’ …)
Unless you have a suitably large playing area, Apocalypse sized games tend to look like a massive traffic jam, where road rage gets out of control.
I like the idea of big battles , in fact I love EPIC battles in the 41st millenium.
But I prefer a rule set written for this type of game play, (Epic Armageddon,) and suitably sized minatures.
In reguards to Warrens comment about GW not being a hobby compnay any more.Then it depends on which definition of hobby you use.
If you are talking about the massively creative and inspiring Table Top War-games hobby, where hobbiests expand their knowledge ,ability, and skill in craft and social interaction.
Then no GW is not a hobby company any more.
However , if you mean the GW hobby, ™ of selling toy soldiers to children , then yes GW are more hobby focused than any other company in the world!And Apocalypse is a prime example of this IMO.
Some public companies are able to be customer-centric and still reward their shareholders. GW has not been able to make that work and continues to do anything to increase its bottom line in an effort to delight shareholders, not its customers.
Great vid guys , I agree the khorne half n half thing is pants!!, and warren, Titan porn?, you really need to switch off when looking for that kind of thing on the net dude!!!!
Nice show again. I quite enjoyed the massive rant that Warren had. I actually agree that it is a bit of a rubbish kit. However I believe that it does not upset me as much because I have actually lost interest in the GW stuff. Privateer press, Mantic and other gaming companies are what keep me interested today.
I’m the same.. my sigh of disappointment has just generally been replaced by a nonchalance towards everything GW releases these days. Is it changes with me? Or changes with the game/target demographic? Perhaps a bit of both, but the end result is I can’t help but look at these kits as potentially firing plastic missiles with digitised sound effects, designed to wow 12-year olds, rather than serious modelling and gaming kits.
I’m totally, 100% with Warren on this one in that, whatever the cost, the Warhound would have been a better choice than the lord of skulls (or for that matter, the necron one, or both even!)
Let’s say that the tooling costs for the warhound were £100,000 and it’s retail price was £115. That £15 would *probably* be enough to cover the costs of production (the actual plastic that makes the kit) and the cost of packaging etc. Leaving what is essentially £100 for “profit”.
Now, initially, that “profit” needs to pay back the cost of design before it can really be considered profit. So, if the kit cost £100,000 to make, Games Workshop would need to sell 1000 warhound titans before they’ve paid for the tooling costs.
I’m not certain on the number, but lets say there are 300 Games Workshop stores (not including independant retailers) worldwide. So each of those stores only needs to sell 4 warhound titans before the mold has paid for itself and started making profit. That doesn’t take into account GW online sales, or independent retailers.
I am certain, absolutely certain that a warhound titan kit would pay for its tooling cost and start making profit on the day of release. Even if only 2 or 3 gamers per store worldwide bought on on release (which I think is a very, very low number) it would make its money back and start making profit right away.
Even if the tooling cost was £200,000, which is a huge number, I’m certain it would make it back on release.
Yes, it’s a massive investment for GW to make, and the only reason I can see for them not doing it is that they don’t have the money to give the tooling costs. Well, if ever there was a product that GW could take to kickstarter, it’s a plastic Warhound titan. People would be up in arms, furious that the industry leader is using kickstarter, but people would still back it.
If they said “look, we know you want a plastic warhound, and we do too. But unfortunately the tooling costs are so much it means we would have to produce nothing else for X months, so we can’t justify it. But with kickstarter we can secure the funding we need straight away, continue to give you the volume of kits you’ve come to expect, but in 12 months time, you’ll all have a Warhound titan sat beneath your Christmas tree.”
I do agree with you Warren about that Khorne thing, its horrible. Now the Necron thing I really liked at first and while I still think its a cool concept, it looks rather flimsey to me. The open version seems to only have those wall pieces held on by 1 piece of thin plastic and even in the GW pics they seem to sag. I have a feeling that it will break very easily and if thats the case it seems like a very poorly designed kit, IMHO.
couldn’t warrens dream of a titan be done if they made a hybrid kit with plastic and resin
There isn’t much point. if you’re going to spend the money to tool parts of the titan in plastic, but not all of it, what’s the point. I doubt the price would fall by much as they would have to pay for the cost of the tools that they did do, and less people are going to buy one if its still part resin (and therefore, still expensive)
sticking to the old apocalypse myself for a while indeed i’ve been organising a last hurrah for it with a friend at my club before leaving it for my rare games at home… goodby apocalypse mk 1 i’ll miss you… mk 2 you better have more to you than that damn tractor
I dont completely hate the Lord of Skulls but I definitely dont like it.
Its trying to call back to something old school but.. I dont know, I just dont think it works myself.
Not that Im collecting Chaos but if I ever was going to, that wouldn’t be a reason why
While I get what Stu is saying that potentially you could make all 8 variants from the Baneblade kit, by magnetising it etc, that argument doesn’t stack with his earlier argument about GW shops being a one stop shop. Last time I check (and I maybe wrong) GW don’t sell magnets, and the drill kits associated with magnetising (although they do sell very small drills for barrels etc).
The move by GW to include all the variants is a purely financial one, it combines multiple SKUs (stock keeping unit) into one SKU, therefore reducing shelf space required to stock all the variants. It’s a sound move for any company they is interested in maximising profits. The price increase justifies the cost of all the extra plastic and tooling required to produce the one box, but doesn’t include the savings that are associated with stream lining their production process, savings on storage space, multiple packaging designs, etc.
Recently in my opinion GW seem to care less and less about ‘the hobby’ and more about making lots more money at the expense of ‘fairness’ to there customers and customer satisfaction. I don’t begrudge any company making profit, and lots of it, but it’s how they do it! A huge shame from such a pioneer of the hobby.
Just my 2 pence worth.
The lord of skulls is crap. On another note on p66 of the new apoc rules section vehicle damage it states that old datasheets can be used just use the formula of sp x 3 = number of hp. So Warren you can still use your warlord titan. Though I do agree that i am little disappointed in this new book they could have left the armageddon crap out and put more data sheets in. I do also agree with stuart that it is sometimes nice that gw make a lot of stuff so those without the skill or time can to make stuff can buy it. BTW ask stuart if he up for a rematch on Relic 😀
Thanks Chuffy
QUESTION: is there a ‘datasheet’ for the skullhamma?? You’d think that, especially since Phil Kelly co-wrote this edition, there must be somehting orky other than the stompa for us dedicated ork players out there (yes, we still exist).
Warren, support your point entirely, and my heart weeps for the big nids that we wished we could see one day, but Stu has a very valid point: at it’s corrupted, festering heart, GW is a company, and companies must make money; it would be folly not to create kits that appeal to the broad spectrum of gamers out there. Yes, the lord of skulls is HIDEOUS, but one mustn’t forget that those of us – like myself – that regularly attend gaming nights at their local GW store find ourselves mixed in with ankle biters that have no business messing around in our hobby (but then, we all started somewhere 😉 ). These children, no doubt, love the sight of a huge skull encrusted leviathan, and perhaps GW want more chaos products to sell, and this is a gentle push towards that aspect of the warhammer 40k universe.
Totally agree GW is no longer the” hobby” company it once was. From talking to club members who still visit our local store from time to time, it all seems a bit sterile on the hobby side of things. When i think back to some of the gaming tables that were made in store they were pretty spectacular.
Just adds to the opinion that GW is run by Grey businessmen and not hobbyists/business people otherwise we may have seen something that we may want to buy. Apart from the tank which is as you pointed out is mostly an old kit, the other kits are just so uninspiring.
I don’t think the big chaos thing would have excited me even when I was a kid, for me first and foremost things had to look cool even when they’re not (still true today), mind you cool to me when I was a lad was an 1/72 scale Airfix Panther which incidentally had lots of seperate wheels and fiddly parts which were not beyond the attention span or skill level of a 10 year old.
Warren is spot on! There was quite a bit of good to come out of this release, but the the really big ‘guns’ and fun bits were totally lost.
This apoc. seems to be about selling models for high prices, rather than changing the game dynamic.
That’s fine for Games Workshop. Best of luck to them.
However, the Lord of Skulls just seems weird. I don’t quite know where it fits, games wise. As a kit it’s a lot of duplicate parts. Nothing wrong there. It seems very static, rigid and unposeable. Considering that new greater daemon sculpts would have been more welcome, or even a nobbling of the Brass Scorpion or Blood Slaughterer from Forge World into plastic would seem more chaotic.
It just feels a missed opportunity, and that’s sad. More, I’m concerned about parents able to drop £100 on children’s presents at Christmas!
“Rather than the ‘Hi kiddies, if you want to play Apocalypse BUY MOAR GW KITS!!!!’
(Eg Warren description/dislike of ‘cookie cutter formations’ …)”
This is exactly what Apocalypse is for. GW are a well oiled machine designed only to separate their target consumer from their money. The only thing better than selling a two-sprue kit for £95 is selling a two-sprue kit for £95 that makes two different minis so some customers will buy it twice. This isn’t a criticism of GW. I admire their ability to take selling 28mm toy soldiers and turn it into a £250 million turnover per annum business. It’s a staggering achievement.
The Lord of Skulls is awful, though I still think the Mutalith has it beat as the worst of the current range of plastic kits. I think the Baneblade looks like a big tank and the Necron thing looks like a kids toy. Maybe that makes me a hater.
I think GW’s view of Apocalypse is a bit different to the core players. Speaking for myself I just like to field all my favourite units.
I’ve not played it a lot but I’m sure I only ever had to count up the points once.
We have just played it as an excuse to put all your toys on the table.
I was doing that in the late 90’s with my mates, we didn’t need the book to tell us how to do it! 🙂
I’m sure the ‘play with all of your stuff’ game has been played since the first week Rogue Trader went on sale, or any other historical games before that for that matter!
I’m guessing Warren doesn’t like it then. To be fair, you can’t polish a turd
Is the design horrible? Yes, no one will disagree, but the fact that they distiller it down to two distinct sprues is amazing.
I can understand both side of the fence with Stu effectively treating every GW book/codex as a catalogue for its own stuff terrain wise, however Warren does also have a vaild point with regards to the insperation to make your own stuff and give it a crack, for me personally I like “some” of the GW terrain but most of it I wouldn’t bother with due to the excessive skulls and price.
on the kits, the khornethingy would be great to kit bash into other stuff, orky stuff of course!
who needs a plastic kit when you can download a pdf of a warhound titan blue print and build it out of plasticard and plumbing pipe. still think the lord of skulls looks like something out of robot wars. good discussion guys. if gw keep making everything bigger eventually no one will be able to store it.
Really want to convert a lord of skulls into a walker and the tracks into a land raider.
Im pretty sure that after the whole chapterhouse fiasco, gamesworshop has decided that if a model cant be made they do not want to release stats for it in a book. I hope I am wrong but this is the way I see them going
Its not that the original rules simply vanish, why not just use the titan rules from previous book in this apocalypse. Unless bring what you own has been scrapped.
Mark from Dreamforge Games said that the tooling cost to make the moulds for the Leviathan Crusader was in the 100-115.000$.
Add 50% on top of that for the increased warhound size, 175k $.
I cant in my blindest ignorance see why GW could not manage that kind of investment into giving us the customers a kit alot of us would rush out and buy.
Also you can make a better version of the Lord of skull getting a Defiler and a Landrider, its also cheaper.
I love watching the Weekender (normally on Sunday morning), so was looking forward to a geat discussion around the new Apocalypse.
For the first time EVER I feel I’ve wasted my time watching the show and it pains me to admit it.
Over 20 minutes of Warren on a soap-box about how GW are only promoting their own kits and terrain was not what I was looking forward to, it’s old news and we either accept it or go elsewhere. I was anticipating some of the bashing (and yes I hate the Khorne truck as much as the next man) and that is only correct to review and give your opinions on the new kits, but too much, way too much. I know nothing more about the new Apocalypse than I did before starting to watch.
I’m now going to start watching XLBS, but if it continues in the tracks as the Weekender then I’ll give up and watch Dreadball Academy instead.
Really hope normal service resumes next weekend gents…..PLEASE!
Actually this is encouraging.
So it’s happened once, you have another show to try (where we don’t mention GW), and even if that doesn’t work you have yet another option in Dreadball Academy.
Not ever show can be for everyone, but as complaints go (and I understand completely where you are coming from) it’s encouraging that you have options.
Hopefully next week will be more to your tastes 🙂
As I have no interest in Apocalypse I didn’t feel short-changed by the lack of info on the game. In fact, I would have felt like I’d been conned into watching a 40K video if it was full of game info. What I like most about The Weekender is the way it feels like a bunch of mates having a chat about gaming. This week’s episode ticked that box.
Thanks forvthe reply and I’ll certainly be watching next week.
Sad to see someone feels that I need a -1 p for voicing my opinion though 🙁
Well I’ll be sneaking into Games Day UK this year (already got the ticket lol) to see what’s going to be going on this year. Shame that the participation boards might be vanishing 🙁
BoW Ben
Hmmm.. Think I’m the only person on the Internet that likes the khorne kit. Will try and keep it to myself lol
These comment sections would be boring if we all agreed.
Probably more people like it than will admit it, good old peer pressure lol
I actually like the Khorn kit. But only as a box full of bits to loot and turn into really cool Ork stuff. lol
As for the Baneblade. It’s now £85 for one tank with a ‘shit load’ of bits left over. As opposed to how it used to be – £130 for two tanks with a ‘few’ bits left over.
I know which i’d pick to be honest. For me two tanks are always better than one and you have less unused bits left over..
I agree completely with Warran that Games Workshop is no longer about the “hobby” as such. Or rather, as they said during the Chapterhouse trial, the “hobby” is now to buy Games Workshop products.
So sad…
But I can, to a certain point, understand where they’re coming from. They used to, back when they were the only game in town, release codices that contained units that you had to convert. However, given that they’re now facing increasing competition from small “garage-kit” companies with their this-isn’t-a-40K-figure-honest models, they can no longer do that. They have to release all the models themselves or risk other companies muscling into their territory. And so they have increasingly removed those units for which there were no models from the game.
But the thing is, Games Workshop is not the end-all-be-all of the game. If you want to play with your titan or whatever crazy model you’ve created, go ahead.
I sometimes feel that this is something that we, the players, have entirely forgotten. There’s more to this than playing with your Games Workshop models – painted in the official Games Workshop colour schemes using, of course, Games Workshop colours – on a Games Workshop table filled with Games Workshop terrain. So much more, in fact, that the only limit is your own imaginations.
Games Workshop makes a lot of models, but Games Workshop doesn’t make a lot of sense. 😀
WARRENNNNN, can you please send me the internet address to the company that makes the Warlord, I’ve tried to check it but web searcher won’t come up with it.
Brother G
It’s http://www.tsipisgames.com/
I agree with Warren. The GW hobby is less and less about building things.
Oh! I agree with you @warzan. The Khorne lord of skull is awefully lame… It’s a shame, really. I also agree with you that one of the super heavy with the most character about it is the Stompa! I’m right now working on mine and I invite you to take a look at it in my army log on this very site!
http://www.beastsofwar.com/groups/wh40k-orks/forum/topic/bloojaws-waaagh/
I’d like to know what you think about it! 😉
Less building? Great! More table time 🙂 that’s one of the reasons that made x-wing such an attractive game.
Is it true that there won’t be any bespoke boards at games day ? If so are they going to scrap all there awesome boards at warhamer world ? And the set pieces that forgeworld do ? I’m not being funny but that’s what floats people’s boats and why there into the hobby in the first place, you don’t see Hornby train on all the same boards as this would be bloody dull. But being the retail supremo that they are they are just doing what wallets are telling them i.e. if the customers don’t buy into the crap they would’nt produce the crap co’s it would’nt make money ! ! It’s simple supply and demand. So vote with your wallets co’s I think it’s worked with finecast which there scraping as its crap and people stopped buying so they’ve had to react. Just my observation 🙂 be happy and tickle a shrew
My poor book being manhandled in such a rough and ready manner!
I do agree with you Warren and I also agree with Stu, Games Workshop does not encourage you to build anything anymore. Games Workshop has done what we always dreamed of back in the 90s by expanding their range immeasurably to include so much but I believe that what you can buy is the beginning of the hobby. What you can create yourself, where you can take your hobby with your own imagination is what the true hobbyist aspires to.
Inheritance is a great example of owning your hobby and owning your game. Anyone can make their own Inheritance all it takes is being inspired and getting your hands dirty. Something as simple as building a scenery piece but limiting the amount of scenery model parts you use and scratch building the majority of it or even all of it then building a scenario of your own around it.
Hobby should challenge people to try and to learn and to expand their skills. One of the great things of our hobby over things like video games is that any effort we put into it to create something is rewarded with tangible results.
Though I agree with Warren about not liking the look of the Lord of Skulls. I was originally an epic model, and therefor they wanted to give fans of the old epic game a model that we couldn’t buy so we could play with it again. The problem is when you scale it up to that size it looses its appeal.
Will there be a video coming out about the new rules and your thoughts on the Book? I quite like it, just want to see the opinions of the gang 🙂
@warzan Absolutely agree. Chaos has waited a long time for a nice apocalypse model (aside from the warlords, as beautiful as they are unattainable for most). However from a GW perspective, I don’t understand their choice at all. They nerfed Khorne Bezerkers into over-priced uselessness, and release a Khorne themed apoc model? Why not Nurgle, or Slaanesh which actually get play in 40k games. I simply can’t believe that there wasn’t a better option they could come up with. Hell, they could have released knight titans for both Imperials and Chaos or better yet the warhound which they would have sold a ton of.
I will have to say that I don’t mind the Khorne lord of battles its design is taken directly from the original Epic 40k which I had 1 of the largest chaos armies that I bough from someone else In Queensland, it was one of my favorite pieces of the army. I would say not a smart choice from a sales point of view because it is just for Khorne and I don’t think it should be converted to a nurgle piece as it was just a Khorne engine, a more generic chaos engine would have been smarter. I will say this the re-imagining of the original design is a bit anime which I’m not fond of so…but really not as bad as people say are going on about…just my opinion.
Also would like to say love the idea of the models of Titans but think its a bit stupid to plonk them on your average width gaming table, very cheesy and OP for my liking…
Two questions:
1) Are you guys going to review the changes to the rules?
2) Does the new Apocalypse invalidate units, formations and rules for units from other books (e.g. Apocalypse Reload, Imperial Armour Apocalypse 2nd Ed), and/or only when units/formations are explicitly mentioned in the new Apoc book (e.g. Baneblade, Shadowsword)?
I thought Apoc games are where you arrange to put ALL your stuff on the table and play a relaxed narrative game for fun with your mates.
Use ANY RULES YOU LIKE, that you and you mates agree on.
However, if you are unable to think for yourself, please send all your money to…
Mr T Kirby.
Care of GW plc.
‘Selling toy soldiers to children ‘ Towers.
‘The GW hobby, is JUST buying GW product’ Road.
‘The game is just the icing on the cake ‘ City.
‘Sell them the same stuff for more cash ‘ County.
(lol.)
I don’t think GW will ever win with whatever they release lol
Even if a plastic titan came out, people will probably moan about the price and everyone having one and it not being unique anymore lol
The Khorne model is poo I agree (Its aimed at younger players) but the detail is great.
For the first time in over 10 years of knowing Stu, I just found myself agreeing 100% with everything he said in this video!!!! Blimey! Wonders never cease 🙂
But I also agreed with Warren (as most of the internet has said already) the KLoS was a complete missed opportunity to have done something outstandingly good and non Imperial Marine/Guard. But having built both a Warhound and a Reaver, I cannot ever see those coming in plastic given the direction of the muti cookie cutter sprue count. And I don’t want every kid at my local store/club having one either. Its something special to be able to (afford) assemble one, and took me 15 years of hobby before I could get them. Fortunately, they got buffed bug time in the new Apoc book too. Perhaps they wont die in every game now?!
They can still die in every game just as fast in the old rules and the new rules. Its just a different way now with the new D weapon rules.
Yeah that chaos model is a monstrosity, yuck!!!
Ah they may still die, but with no min range on the void shield, and that D is absorbed by shields, and no damage is taken until you die entirely, it means that the deep striking vets with combi meltas in drop pod, or the Farsight “Bomb” with Fusion are only 50% as effective as before. Plus if they do not strip all hull points, you get to squish them back quickly.
Plus you can regen the shields without having to stand still for a turn with no shooting.
Thats a massive improvement on the Imperial walkers.
Apoc D battles now come to a case of clever deployment, as he who fires D first shall be declared the winner. Additionally, with many units being able to generate a D shot (Chaos Daemon Shell, Fortifications, Pred Assassin Squad, Lysander Titan Hammer Formation, Eldar Fire Prism formation and so on, its now no longer a given that he who buys Forgeworld wins either. Clever formations can even the battlefield very quickly, as well as clever use of schedule breaks for the reserve arrivals.
All deep striking units (So no more rounding up on drop pods) and flyers can come on the first turn from strategic reserve. As I don’t have a titan to field (yet) I think this still makes them very very vulnerable, but I do agree with the new buffs they have, I didn’t notice all of them.
At least the chain-reaction damage has gone but a single D shot could take out 12 hull points / Wounds.
Totally agree with Stu. Its funny when Warren talks about making stuff himself and then complain about not having a model/rules for the Titan. Generally I think there is so much great stuff for 40K that with a bit of imagination you can do everything now. I don’t see why so many people focus on a bits that are not necessarily best or require selected taste. If you don’t like 40K, don’t play/talk about it and let others enjoy it.
@ Warren: You might of seen this already, but seeing as how much you obviously loved the Khorne Lord of Skulls, I thought you’d like to see what someone used as a base for their Eldar Titan.
Would help if added the link wouldn’t it… lol.
http://www.lounge.belloflostsouls.net/showthread.php?34453-Eldar-Phantom-Titan-diorama&p=332000&viewfull=1#post332000