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VLOG: 40K Campaign – Deep Ocean Platform WIP
August 21, 2014 by warzan
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Why not just use the older 40K rules with to hit modifiers for cover -1 soft cover -2 hard cover?
Modified saves do to cover.. yep. Makes it easier and allows your hard built terrain to play its part.
I was thinking same thing as soon as Warren said it
2nd edition always had the best rules with the modifier’s, so I second that!
Space Marines don’t even need the Power Armour. They can breathe underwater due to their implants.
And survive in the vacuum of space without helmets as well for a limited time.
not game related but what camera is Loyd holding ?
Oh, this is a guard players dream, the IG chimera is the only amphibious vehicle in the game! it’ll be a challenge for troops without jump packs and I dare you to deep strike onto it! On the hitting the terrain first, are you going to make gantries destroyable? 40k with a Bolt Action activation mechanic would be great, going to give that a go.
Excellent terrain set, it’s going to look great once it’s all weathered up. I’m definitely going to have to check them out. Good find on the hair rollers, I’m nicking that one.
Talking about projects, whatever happened to Justin’s Battlezone build?
Finally, in the specs in RT, space marines can fight in a vacuum and under water 😉
The eldar tanks would all love it too! JETBIKES FTW
Great terrain can make most games epic. Seeing the gaming possibilities tables like this throw up always makes you review your own set up.
@warzan a while back you did consider bringing us some 7TV on here. I have never played the game but I can certainly picture this rig as a great setting for a Hero to tackle the minions of an evil Mastermind.
I’m wondering how you are going to base your minis to fit in with the board. Also that terrain from wargames tournaments reminds me of the old card necromunda terrain, it looks awsome.
An awesome map! It definitely reminds me of an oil rig or similar platform at sea. One question, though. You mentioned living quarters, a power station, and the elevator tubes (Relentless cans 🙂 ) going down. Is this the “purpose” of the platform? Does it lead to an undersea colony or mine of some sort, and provide access to the surface? I know you don’t want to give away too much of your campaign yet, but I notice in a lot of terrain . . . that things are just built “because it would make a cool battle.” Maybe some sort of landing pad so undersea colonists can access orbit? Energy collection panels (although 40K doesn’t seem like a very “green” setting 🙂 ), fisheries, refineries, something like that. Of course building a table for the sake of a battle is one thing. But in the setting, that platform had a purpose long before the war showed up. Just some thoughts. 😀
Looking good!
@warzan – if you need any hints/tips with your Minotaurs, gimme a shout, I have a bit of experience with them 😉
You’re not the only one lol
i remember in one of the early horus books a whole war had been fought underwater they fought on the seabed
How about shortening range distance? Or a mechanic like in Warmachine where units who stand still have a better chance of shooting their target. You can have it where units running and gunning will only snap fire.
Fog of war would work well for shortening range, hell, use counters/markers for units until they come into sight range. We’ve done that for kill team and it worked great.
@theterraintutor , is sight range weapon range?
Looks great though!
The base could be a research facility like in deep blue sea? With the Ork’s out to take the advanced technologies for their selves.
I don’t think spacemarine’s can use their weapons underwater they will only be able to use hand to hand combat in water because energy weapons will just turn the water to steam with the bolters bullets & the like just disintegrating when they hit the water leaving the gun’s.
Deep Blue Sea? Only if you include special rules for random shark attacks in the water. I’d hate to see the size of the sharks on this planet, based on how large those shells would be. If the mollusks are that big in this ecosystem, the sharks will be able to swallow Land Raiders! 😀
Megashark they will need a battlebarge with a tractor beam to lift it. LOL
Orks go grenade fishing:
“I got one, boss! I got one! Help us lift it out of da water, da whole horde be eatin’ good tonight!”
Well it’s quick and you don’t get bored, wet & cold.
P.S. love the table.
I would possibly suggest some of the following options…
One make it a variant of the night fighting rules giving things the stealth or shrouded special rule? (This just a vary basic option)
Two give the platforms a variant of the atomantic shielding, Call it something like ‘Meteorolistic Shielding’ specific to the platforms edges along the walk ways acting as a dampener on adverse weather systems on the ocean. Something like models get a 5+ invulnerable save against shooting and explosions if the shot has passed through the sides of a platform. This doesn’t resolve the ‘use your best save’
Three as above but instead of an invulnerable save it gives a ‘feel no pain’ (default or a modified 6+ feel no pain) as this is in addition to the armour and it could reflect things like a bolter / slugga round passing through the meteoroligistic shielding manipulating the trajectory of fire? This giving an additional roll but only for shots that have passed through the edges of platforms. If you are on the same platform firing down a walkway this would not apply, if your firing from one walkway to another walkway then it would apply. This reducing the impact of such a potentially open battlefield. For an ork this may mean that they get a 5+ or 4+ cover save then a 5+ or 6+ additional save when being shot from different platforms / levels etc?
Great vlog, for shooting, apply your proposed house rule for first time shooting at the target, but for the second and subsequent shoots, standard rules apply, as accuracy will increase if the target does not move. Also it will stop figures holding up in a good place all game!
I know cons are that you have to keep track of first shots but a simple maker should do
Oops, too many “oo” in shot!
@warzan @lloyd in the 30k novel Fulgrim, the Emperors’ Children legion cleanse the underwater cities on the planet of Laeran, home world of the Laer, its also mentioned in the fluff that land raiders can drive along seabeds…
That looks so cool. I like the idea of an ‘effective fire’ rule, though maybe put it after your ordinary rolling to fire, and maybe make it ranged based in bands. No roll under 6inches, 2+ 6-12inches and 3+ for 12inches and over. This way you may replicate the chances of hitting odd bits of twisted/broken metal and debris that aren’t maybe shown on the terrain.
I dunno if someone else talked about the drop pods. If you make the ocean parts impassable terrain the drop pods internal guidance system would force it to land on the platforms. So basically your tactical marines wouldn’t have to swim or get their water wings out. Keeps it simple and doesn’t change much of anything.
As for turn structure in 40k I have been toying with the idea of using the Epic Armageddon turn order. Basically this still allows it to feel very 40k which was the main goal but takes out the long grind of rolling saves and removing models for 30mins. Epic is alternate activation but you do all your actions for one squad (move, physic, shoot, assault) then you can let your opponent go or you can take a chance and command another squad to do its actions. If you fail the activation roll for the second squad they suffer a blast marker (basically epics moral mechanic). Now you can never go past 2 activations (unless your eldar or dark eldar, they get 3 because they are super quick) so it keeps up the tempo and also you loose situations where you loose half your army before you get to even play turn (I am looking at you tau-dar and Imperial guard). Instead of the blast marker and command roll we have gone to a leadership test. If you fail the leadership test to activate the second squad. That squad doesn’t move or does an orderly retreat towards the nearest cover and cannot do anything further that turn. For example I have a tactical squad and an assault squad. I choose to activate my tactical squad first and they move forward and rapid fire some Tyranid Gaunts (Odviously Warrens) and kill 12 out of the 30. Now I really want to put the pressure on so I opt to activate a second squad, the assault marines. They race forward and assault because I passed my Ld9 test and whip out the Gaunts in glorious combat for the Emperor. Now lets change the situation. After I activate my tactical squad and rapid fire killing 12 Gaunts I then choose to activate my Assault squad and roll and 11 which simulates poor vox traffic or confusing orders. Well now this forces the serg of the assault marines to pause causing his squad to remain defensive or jump to the nearby ruins only if he has the movement to get there to achieve a better tactical situation. Next turn they would act as normal from there location unless they evil bugs caused a moral test and they failed etc.
I dunno if I explained that very well but it works similar to Dropzone Commander but instead of one battlegroup activation you can take a risk and activate a second one to put pressure on your opponent when you need that little bit extra firepower. Oh and all squads have to take this activation test even if they are fearless as this test isn’t a moral test.
Then you just go back and forth with your opponent until you run out of units to move. If one person has more units then and his opponent runs out of activations first. He gets to do all his remaining activations together at the end. For example if I have 3 units and my opponent has 7. We would go back and forth for the first 3 units each (unless one of us does a double activation discribed above) and then after I finish using my 3rd unit he would get to move, physic, shoot, assault with his remaining 4. This rules tweak works amazingly well and really helps balance the game a lot without having to do massive rules/pts changes. But most of all it still feels like 40k. Just more intense 40k with less OP super build “bullying” that can happen. I really encourage people to try it out. It really doesn’t create any problems out of the games I have played using it and still allows everything to work correctly.
A few notes:
– Dedicated transports and there unit count as one activation. Non-dedicated transports and the unit inside would count as 2 separate squads and their for 2 activations. You can either try a double activation to disembark or wait until your next activation and then disembark.
– Formation act as one activation (still play testing this) or at the very least use whatever deployment special rule they may have. For example a formation that states they all come on the board from one reserve roll. They would still all come on together and just fire and assault at different times.
– The physic phase still works the same it is just used when you activate one of your physicers. Basically he only gets to use the dice he would generate and your opponent nominates one of his own to defend. Can defend against multiple phyicers but only ever gets to generate dice once per turn.
Like I said I hope this makes sense. What do you think?
@warzan @lloyd Forgot to tag you to the novel I wrote above 😛
Looking good… however, didn’t we just have talk about allowing anything in a game?
While I don’t play in tournaments, I sometimes help setting up tables for them. I’ve thought about setting up something interesting like this, but I haven’t because it would inevitably lead to whining from players because there’s no room for their Baneblade or whatever…
Looks awesome, I am looking forward to this.
Me want one
LOVE IT LOVE IT LOVE IT!! This is going to be epic. I desperately want to play on this, I can see Dust working really well, even with the tactics rules.
My two cents on the drop pods I think the idea of making them seaworthy is brilliant and also makes more sense fluff wise. The image of drop pods crashing into the sea then popping up again and floating around is perfect. You could make some tidal rules or something to get them on.
very excited for this one!
Hàd you considered putting so lights on the terrain? Would make the darker areas look more sinister. Also agree with some of the previous comments regarding cover modifiers as per the old second ed rules. Great table!
On an industrial rig like that, wouldn’t the ladders be on the inside of the structures, for safety sakes? Unless you plan to have random big waves come along to knock someone off.
the ‘did it hit rule’ is an epic idea, roll to hit as normal, then strength 5+ weapons auto hit, strength 4 hits on a 2, 3 on a 4 etc….
THEN… any hits that dont hit the target model, hit the object in the way which has a toughness, and 2/3 wounds, so you can accidentally destroy bits of the board…..
Yeah, accidentally 😉
I agree with the above. 2nd edition rules were some of the best. Can’t wait to see how you play this out.
Sonar rules! How about having an auspex mode which has to use sonar to pick out targets in murkier parts of the sea? Maybe you could use the blips rules from Space Hulk?
In the planet strike book there’s a piece of fluff about some SW fighting the Tau(?) under water and then having to walk back to land.
I too find the whole ‘terrain is pointless for marines’ thing very annoying, but I would find your proposed fix very frustrating, as it’s adding a whole new layer of dice rolling.
As has been suggested by others, the 2nd ed. ‘to hit’ modifier is a very simple and effective solution. It was got rid of in the name of simplicity, but I honestly don’t ever remember struggling with deducting 2 from 4 to find out what I needed.
The board looks really amazing and I’d love to play on it. One other thing to watch out for though, is that with lots of foot sloggers restricted to using gantries, it could actually be quite a slow and static game. I think the answer is definitely to mix up the Igo Ugo turn order as is being suggested. Making it more of a skirmish by getting rid of unit cohearancy, allowing figures to move on their own, etc. seems appropriate, but actually moving quite far away from what 40K is these days.
Really really interesting concept. I like the house rule about checking whether you actually hit something. Waiting for more info on this one.
That is a cool little rig 🙂
Just one bit about drop pods. In my mind if I was going to insert on a water world I would want Thunderhawks to set my troops down. I just can’t see the utility of drop pods in such an operation. What if the inflatable part of the drop pod doesn’t inflate? I could see maaaybe using them to drop in an advanced force to deploy from the sea floor and work their way up to hit the orcs, unawares at the same time my main force was attacking. But if I was inserting with 2-4 squads, I would want Thunderhawks to lay down covering fire for me while we deploy.
Now if you’re using drop pods for cool factor, more power too you. It’s a sci-fi game, not real life, and Space Marine assaults are supposed to be epic. 🙂
@warzan, I dare you to smack @digity on that board in a game of MERCs!
Interesting board, re your “did it hit”, using 2nd Ed to hit mods would work quite well ( I have used it in 4th & 5th Ed), otherwise all models get a “ricochet” roll. Wpn Str up to 4 gets a 4+, wpn str up to 7 gets 5+, wpn str 8+ gets a 6+. You roll to hit as normal, roll to wound, roll ricochet, then roll cover / armour.
I am certain that you’ll use /mod some of the ideas here with some type of success!
That table looks amazing, but how about you bin the whole 40k thing off and use it to play necromunda?
Sharkmen 40k? How obvious 😉 Good Vlog!!
Yeah, Necromunda rules for a game like this would be perfect. As has been said, the terrain is very remniscent of the original Necro cardstock+buklheads terrain. If you don’t want to be dissecting partial & full cover the whole game (as my group does not) play it all as partial. Or play it something like -1 BS at 12″ or less, -2 BS at 12″+. (Assuming some kinda LOS interruption is present, of course.) It sure would keep things moving, as you wouldn’t want to stay at -2 BS for long!
& don’t fortget rules for falling off platforms/gantries/walkways/whatever. Simple version would be if hit within 1″ of a drop, roll Initiative or less to not fall off. & if you give heavy weapons, say S5 or higher *1″ knockback* rules, even better!
There should be a lot of *collateral effects* from fighting on a board like this. Well, maybe not a lot, for time/*bookeeping* sake. But enough to make the terrain unique & a new challenge.
& yes, of course, people knocked off can climb back up. You could even add in a hit equal to the distance fallen for being knocked off. Half if the model fell into water (which would probably be most of the time).
Half the fun from great & unique terrain comes from making special rules for it. Gives the terrain not just a *visual effect*, but an *actual effect* on the game being played. Playing some small & quick games with the proposed special rules is a fun way to not just test it, but learn it as well. You could even make them part of the narrative. A Killteam game &/or a Combat Patrol game, in advance of the big game is always characterful & fun.
Add a small bonus for the winner. Even just choosing board edge/set up area makes little *pre-game* games take on a life of their own. If you’re gonna be doing a good narrative campaign, you need to have Killteam & Combat Patrol games thrown in for good measure!
PS; New Backstager here & *first time caller*, as they say. So forgive my rambling enthusiasm! 🙂
I really hope that You guys are still working on this as it is narrative campaigns with great scenery and creative game play that are most inspiring for me. It actually feels like your playing in the 40k Universe and not just pitting plastic army men against each other.
Again this looks amazing and I hope that this is still in the works.