January 1, 2019 by dignity
John and Geralt talk us through what's in the box of the Magach-6 Tank Company for Fate Of A Nation from Battlefront Miniatures.
The set contains five Magach-6 tanks, two M7 Priest artillery, and two Jeeps with TOW.
What do you think of the Magach-6?
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Great addition to the forces. One thing, is the 50cal supposed to be there. I think it should not be there but further back. Next to that, the ‘magach’ is the king of the battlefield in 1973 vs Egypt and Syria.
the 50 on top of the barrel? It’s supposed to be there, but they also mounted additional pintles on the turret with lighter machineguns, so it could potentially have a 50 and a couple of 7.62s at each hatch
still, I have never seen it mounted there. you learn and see new things every day so this is it for me. seems strange to mount it there, we’re exposed position and I thing firing and reloading must be such a pain that it would be seldom done and as it can cause the crew member to be wounded, would not risk lowering the efficiency of the tank for this.
The barrel mounted .50 was remotely fired by the gunner who could opt to use the heavy machine gun rather than the main gun in the case of soft target and not wanting to waste a main gun round.
Its similar to the CROWS system that the US later applied to a lot of their AFVs and Abrams Tanks for urban fighting.
I think I more or less concur with @tacticalgenius –
Okay, here’s the deal with that unusual mounting for the .50 on the M60A1/Magach 6.
That mounting on M60s is pretty rare, at least during 1973 Yom Kippur. Some M48A5 / Magach 5s seem to have these mountings in actual combat / campaign 1973 photos. But most M60A1 / Magach 6s in photos actually during the war do not. I’m not saying there are none, but most such photos do not feature this.
(Osprey Yom Kippur 1 and 2 series, Simon Dunstan, or starters)
Lt. Col Khalalani by then was already serving in Centurions (77th Armored Battalion / Golan Heights), do I can’t “ask him.” 😀 (Heights of Courage)
You see a lot more of this with post-war photos, either in the Magach 6B or 6B GALs (by now it’s become more or less ubiquitous), also in museum photos (for a wartime look, never go by how a tank is presented in a museum). But combat photos tell a different story.
Source: IDF Armor Series, Michael Maas, Desert Eagle Publishing
But the Israelis definitely did this with M48A5s / Magach 5s, perhaps some M60A1 Magach 6s (I just can’t find the photos to prove it), and definitely more in the years after 1973.
The idea was simple, they were trying to reduce the terribly tall silhouette of the Patton line, and step one in that process was that godawful commander’s cupola.
The over barrel.50 cal was originally a training aid; the ballistic properties of the .5″ round were similar to the 105mm main gun round, so an M2 aligned with the main gun and aimed via the main gun sight would put a round on the same target. Saved expenditure on main gun ammo.
Later it was retained for combat to use against soft targets that didn’t need 105mm of smack down.
Right, but I can only find one combat photo that shows this in the field in 1973 Yom Kippur / Ramadan. And it’s on an M48A5. Tons more photos of M60 / M48s with more traditional mountings or no .50 cals at all.
Again, this kit and this video doesn’t “claim” to be a 1973-only thing. So I’m not saying anyone is “wrong.” I just think it’s the exception rather than the rule, in combat, in 1973.
This does become the standard later in the 1970s.
This is awesome. All I saw in the back was AIW.Team-Yankee.com.
Yes.
Thank you.
Somebody, somewhere …
… finally listened.
Does Fate of a Nation cover 1973 Yom Kippur war? I don’t play Flames of War so haven’t paid it much attention, ‘cos Israel didn’t have any M60s in 1967 and TOW was very late to the party in ’73. I’m still not sure if it was used during Yom Kippur apart from some breaches of the cease fire after the war before the Israeli’s withdrew from the Sinai peninsula.
They have to be, @damon . The TOWs, the M60A1 Magach 6s, are ONLY in Yom Kippur War (and even then only in very small numbers, the vast majority of the Patton variants in the IDF were sill M48A5 / Magach 5s). None of this stuff was even on the horizon in 67.
TOWs are a tricky topic. Contemporary Israeli sources swear up an down they didn’t have them / use them in Yom Kippur.
Edward O’Ballance, however, in No Victor, No Vanquished vehemently and repeatedly maintains they did have them, in large numbers, from the Americans, stocks continually refilled during the ongoing conflict. This is a great book because it presents the 1973 Yom Kippur War / Ramadan War much more fairly from the Syrian and especially Egyptian perspective, and these are the sources that make this claim. 95% of what’s out there is blatantly pro-Israeli from the Israeli record and sources.
Honestly, I would say the reality is somewhere in between. And whether there were TOWs or not, I can almost say for certain they were not mounted on Jeeps in 1973. Then again, this kit (or this video) does not make the assertion that this is a 1973-only kit. This could have been a thing in ’82 Peace for Galilee (which means we might see some early-generation Merkavas soon)?
In any event, as I’ve been asking / praying / hoping for years, it looks like they’re treating the AIWs as a Team Yankee “prequel” rather than a Flames of War “sequel,” if that makes any sense.
Bravo, Battlefront. Seriously, huge step forward.
Not sure if you have seen but battlefront Christmas video confirms the merkavas for April with the new team Yankee book oil wars , looks to be Iraq , Iran and Israel.
This is the closest I’ve seen to an Israeli saying that TOW was used in anger in ’73
https://www.israeldefense.co.il/en/node/30944
Also, curious choice with the M7 / Priest. Or course reserve regiments might still be using these, but at least in the 1973 Sinai the IDF artillery battalions were well into the M50 / 155mm phase (no, not the M50 Sherman, I’m talking about the M50 SPH), and already starting to transition to early marks of the M109 Paladin.
But again, some reserve regiments were still using the M51-HV Super Sherman (19th Tank Brigade at Tel Meschara is a good example). So I have no evidence to support it, but I wouldn’t b e surprised to see M7 / Priests still attached to such tank brigades.
I think it’s probably more the practical case they had a plastic kit for the Priest they could put in the box vs mastering and putting in a new plastic or resin model.
Alas it’s one of my pet peeve with the TY rules that we have artillery models on the table in 15mm. Given the ground scale these should be off table (unless they had been caught out of position). But it’s something adjusted for the “game” to allow us to collect and paint even more models on the table. Mortars and suchlike I’m fine with, but for the bigger tube artillery (such as stuff at Regimental level)?
The Israelies have/had some great artillery on Sherman chassis (hvss) that look either awesome or ugly but would be new models or conversions with really limited use and sales potential.
Still….it would look awesome
But putting it in a starter kit would not be practical. Let’s face It, only the jeep is really a new model ad the M60 is used by the USA in Team Yankee and the M7 Priest by US,UK.
@phaidknott – I completely concur re: artillery off the table. In fact, in the projects page right now I’m publishing a battle report for 1967 Six Day War between myself and @damon, and in that table a 1 inch hex is 250 meters (so roughly 1:10,000 scale), and EVEN THERE the M50 / 155mm howitzers for the Israelis are far off the table.
https://www.beastsofwar.com/project/1303724/
I guess they’re worried that people won’t but the piece if they can’t put it on the table? I still would. I use M7 Priests, German 105s / Wespes / Hummels, etc in 15mm and always have them off-table, but still buy, build, and paint the miniature, and just have it sitting on the side.
Indeed, @tacticalgenius, the M50 / 155 SPH to which I refer is in fact based on a Sherman M4A3E8 open-topped chassis, as is the Soltam 160mm self-propelled mortar – both heavily used in the Yom Kippur War. So you could have awesome Sherman-based kits that would also be *gasp* historically accurate. 😀
No gear sticks and levers for the jeep? Kind of disappointed…….. ?