How units might work and move in the Kings of War game
July 31, 2010 by lloyd
Alessio Cavatore continues to chat with Warren about the upcoming Rule Set for Kings of War. This time they talk about how units and moment will (or might) work in the game.
Note that the Rules hadn’t even been completely finished when we shot this, I wonder if there done now?
Anyways I think it’s really cool to get an incite into a game from the man writing it before it’s done, you get a sense of the though patterns that go into it 🙂
Why not check out the new Kings of War groups and ask whatever questions you have:
Supported by (Turn Off)
Supported by (Turn Off)
Supported by (Turn Off)
![Warcradle Studios Reveal TINY New 10mm Festive Marker! [Updated]](https://images.beastsofwar.com/2025/11/christmas-kyle-main-600-338.jpg)
Inetersting. Not sure about the time cloack. It would have to be longer then an hour for it to work in my opinion. Other wise I see no other problems. It will be intersting to see how large creatures like dragons work.
The time clock seems like a good idea for tourneys, but I guess if you’re just playing with friends you can forgo the clock all together.
Yeah. I never enter tourney an my 40k games are usually more relaxed. We just like to take our time and we do a lot of chatting while playing; discussing what just happend, laughing and reimagining the most epic things that happen on the tabletop. But I can imagine that this system might actually make the game flow faster. And the true potential that I see in this is, if you play fast and agree that the only limit is the time (no fixed number of turns) the battle can become very exciting. Lots of movement and slaughter! Isn’t that waht we seek in such a game? I see this working especially in big scale battles. Just imagine how fun would it be to finish the game in the 8th or 9th turn, after an epic clash of hundreds of models on a BoW epic table ;).
Is it not unfair for Mass Armies? You have a lot more to think and move and attack…, compared to elite armies with just a few units.
The impression I get from this is that the armies aren’t likely to be so completely asymmetrical that you would have any significant disparity in turn length, and besides if it did happen you’d probably be able to mob-up your units into larger formations similar to how the warhost is two regiments stuck together.
I think for tournaments having a time-clock is fine and I’d be happy with that however if I’m playing with my brother I’d rather not have any time constraints. So making it flexible would be key as I’d like to just relax and have a laugh enjoying the game. Though very few people actually use the clock for chess unless they are aiming to take part in competitive games 🙂
Other than that it’s building up to be something absolutely brilliant, I really I’m in anticipation for the beta (hopefully :D) rule-set to be released 🙂
I did have some questions, but five seconds later, Warren basically asked it. Good job.
I winced a little when Warren was wiggling that dragon’s wing around. Careful, mate! 😀
Ha ha me too i could see the glue having to come out : )
Movement in cm? Nooooooooooo, please use inches!
“80 GUYS HAS THIS STAT LINE! AWESOME!” alessio is jokes,
very interesting talk guys
I’m interested in their ruleset, but using a chess-watch or whatwasit already makes the game more complicated than Fantasy Battles or 40K. Don’t like that.
Otherwise, interesting concepts, I’m thinking about getting into the beta when it’s time.
not really, a lot of tournaments already use clock systems, this just means that your opponent cant wind your clock down by being cheesy. 🙂
Was looking forward to it, then he said that it was designed with tournaments in mind. Dunno about anyone else, but I play wargames for the chillax factor, its a game of two players.
Still interested, but if it does turn out to be heavily tourny based, thats me out.
Don’t forget he said “could” be played as tournament. He did not say “has to” be played in tournament stile.
All tournament play does is open up one more way to enjoy the game.
I Like the idea of the chess clock, gives you a bit of a realtime feeling and if you wanna have a chill out game ou can still leave it.
The idea of having stats for the whole unit sounds nice too, but plz remove casualties.
I really like the sounds of this rule set
I like the idea of simplifying the rules.I know people that wount touch other systems because they are too complex and time consuming.
Yes, use inches please!
I can’t see a problem with mass armies troublemaker as these will probably be formed as warhost and have a similar number of units to move as a more elite opponant, and if not, you have a better chance to outmanuevre and hit flanks – no, can’t see a problem. I’m certainly looking forward to the rules, that’s for sure.
Chess clock would work but only if it’s like an exam, meaning you have time to slaughter every last unit if you’ve planned ahead and had good tactics.
otherwise it’s not a war, it’s a sport.
Also you mentioned combat would be like breakingthe ranks and pushing the opponent back: would be nice if it actually moved the enemy backwards, such as over a cliff or into a river.
No clock for me thankyou!
It seems to me that the simplicity and unit based stats would be good in bigger pitched battles. Would like to try that out.
Hoard armies would just have different considerations and advantages so like Hithero can’t see it being a problem.
This system might be a good intro level gaming at a smaller scale.
I am fairly disappointed is the way the games rules are headed. I feel that if it goes too tourny based I’m out too. I’ve read a lot of the WFB rules and feel that they are perfect for a fantasy wargame. Only thing holding me back from purchasing an army for WFB was the prices compared to Mantic’s prices.
I do not like the timed aspect at all, it seems to bring on a simplification of the game, I know Mantic are going for a simplified ruleset, but taking it too far will only hurt the game in the end.
We will need to see how unit damage effects the ability of a unit to perform before we can truly comment on this, but I’d prefer the concept of removing casualties from the unit. Removed casualties visually show the unit as weaker but also reflect in its ability on the battlefied with less attacks etc.
I was genuinely looking forward to taking this up as pretty much my first wargaming experience (dabbled years ago in WFB but never played much at all) but the ruleset is a definite deal maker/breaker for me.
“We will need to see how unit damage effects the ability of a unit to perform before we can truly comment on this, but I’d prefer the concept of removing casualties from the unit. Removed casualties visually show the unit as weaker but also reflect in its ability on the battlefied with less attacks etc.”
As they said, this is not going to be a models game, but a unit game. Removing single casualties etc… are contrary to that idea.
I’m getting the idea that they’re borrowing some ideas from Black Powder, the damage counters, removing entire units
I’d say the clock would be good for tourny’s but not for casual play.
I see no problem with cm over inches. 40K has an option to pay in cm after all.
Not sure about the retreating and damage counters, but i’ll have to see how that goes.
And not sure about the rule ideas for cavalry, I’d add to moving and pivoting that they can move triple with ‘on the double’ and ‘charge’ when they don’t pivot that turn, but quarter their move sideways and backward. But i’m not sitting there next to Warren 😛
Very interesting stuff so far. The clock idea could add an element of RTS to the game, which I agree with Warren about – there’s a sense of urgency. The battle is happening and you can’t sit there pondering your moves for ages at a time!
I think the unit categorisation is a masterstroke! The biggest annoyance of wargaming can often be having to buy multiple boxes to form a unit, and then having the problem of a handful too few or too many. I would, however, miss the ability to build a unit to the exact number I want.
This seems to be how approaching a ‘huge army’ game should be done – rather than forcing all players to field giant armies to play effectively in the first place (coughcough8thedcoughcough), just make the game scalable for those who *want* to do it.
However, I have to say I don’t like that you won’t remove casualties. For the unit categorisation, I can see why it could work that way, but it takes a bit away from the cinematic of the game – units won’t get smaller as the game goes on, and the damage inflicted in them becomes far more abstract, to a point where I wouldn’t be so keen. Perhaps a way it could work is that you can take models off to represent casualties, but the unit’s ‘footprint’ remains the same size, so that it does not affect gameplay to remove the models. Though that way would make movement trays a requirement for every unit, rather than an option for ease of play. Also, the cynic in me sees seperate casualty models as a bit of a cheeky money-grab (though not even remotely as bad as GW’s efforts in that regard, since these casualty models would be optional).
The movement is intriguing, though at this stage I would be a little bit concerned about the relative inflexibility of infantry. Perhaps I’m too attached to Warhammer 7th, but infantry at least seems like it might be a bit cumbersome – at this stage it’s obviously impossible to say, but thats the feeling I get from the description. I hope I am proved completely wrong as the rules develop further.
All told, though, I think Alessio is doing an excellent job so far, and can’t wait to hear more about the KoW rules.
Love the idea of the time clock and since it isn’t pivotal to the system it can be left out in friendly games, wasn’t so sure about the combat being one sided (just a dice roll/s to break or not) but adding “hit markers” to units as the turn progresses sounds like a nice mechanic – single stat line is different and quite appealing, it’s starting to sound like a bit of a mix of BFG, Warmaster and bottle tests from Necromunda ….. I’m going to take a wild stab in the dark here and say that if Mantic have designed the range and rules from the ground up to be tournament friendly I’ll bet a pound to a penny they’ve already started planning a tournament series – forethought, planning and inviting, even demanding, customer involvment in the development of the range is fantastic – the only thing that could improve matters is a science fiction based game ………
Love the clock idea (having played chess at school this is not a issue for me) By the sound of it if combat and shooting is an “All or nothing” affair (ie unit holds or breaks) then te clock might not be as much of an issue as steps such as remvoing casulties, coutning models etc are gone.
Like the idea of set unit sizes too Troop/Regiment/Warhost.
I tihnk most ‘complaints’ so far are people thinking in too much of a GW game way (even though its all i myself have ever played).
Looks interesting. Like others, I’d probably give the clock a miss – after all, if the game is going to be far more simplistic than WFB then it should be pretty fast-moving anyway. I guess tournaments might benefit from it, but it’s not really a deal-breaker either way.
I like the stats-per-unit feature. That would really make things more straightforward – and I’m sure you could remove models if you really wanted to in friendly games, I doubt it would make much difference (unit trays would still signify the original size of the regiment).
Also, the limited movement options for core troops could be a good thing – and it does ring true to a certain extent; similar to chess, you need limitations to test your tactical ability (like when to move pawns forward) and to push the focus more towards how you use your more powerful special units (like the back line of chess pieces).
I’m very interested…
Plus, at the end of the day, those of us who want a far more complex system can just simply stick to WFB. It’s all good.
If everyone’s just gonna let the clock go, I think it could be just something that mantic does at their tournaments, similar to the fact that if you play chess (though why would you, warhammer is more colourful :D) you hardly use the clock in your friendly games. But if it’s something mandatory they’d better include it in a starter.
Well just as Ronnie said “nick some dice from a Monopoly game and start playing”
If this is true (as it always was so far) there will nothing be mandatory that isnt minis or dice
I love it , i would prefer doing things in a way so both players complete their movement first the move on to shooting. Or not have phases at all . It seems like this can become allot like Total War but for table top which has some great aspects to it . Regardless of what is finalised in the end i am sure it won’t be bad at all.
I like the clock. I’ve played both 40k and Bloodbowl, modified to use a clock. It was fun as the last 5 mins click away, it can get very anxious.
I like the unit idea and the simple, big, bloody battles. I am not sure about no wheeling/turning for infantry. Just make the wheel count against the movement distance, either directly how much the corner of the unit moved or something like for every turn the unit loses 2cm/1 inch of its forward move. Then Cav and skirmishers can still get free turns to show how much more mobile they are.
For those keeping track I order a subscription to Mantic Journal this morning as a direct result of these videos. I have been getting the newsletter for a while and interested in Mantic but this BoW/Mantic weekend made me pull the trigger on my first, albeit small, order.
To early to say at moment but gut says i don’t like it
The clock….tournie only.
Rules design means you shouldn’t need one.
You go… I go to sleep…my go…you go to sleep…no thanks
Games I find myself enjoying: Epic Armageddon, Infinity, At43/Confrontation, CCA, Fire and Fury, Crossfire, Wings of War, Combat zone and even ASL
They all have either limited activations, in turn interruptions or alternate unit based turns, or even a mix of all the above- Wings of war has a great simultaneous based activation system, now that would be fab for a mass battle if you can pull it off. Anything but yet another boring variant of the turn system please.
Combat system sounds awful at the moment will have to see how it shakes out by seeing a pdf laying it all bare for analysis. I think both roll dice, highest wins would be better…gives both players something to do and makes you feel you won/lost (or do the cca battle back idea). Many people hate tokens so base removal to indicate status better than add tokens IMO.
Simple moves not a big issue but again need to see some rules
Look forward to hearing more and what if any feedback upgrades have occurred.
PS
I think simple to learn and play but hard to master is the way to go…more rules means more chance to get it wrong or have an argument. Also make a game possible in 2 hours or even under. 6 player CCA epic = match setup, played and put away under 2 hours (its is way more fun than many “true” wargames, so it can be done)
to be honest, relay not liking this so far X3. .. ill be sticking with WHFB -_0
i mean for starters, i mean hes just contradicted him self, making simple, but adding a time.. hum, and on with the time, wont this be very unfair on horde army’s..,
damage counting?… so a 1 man squad. will be the size of a 100 man squad? if they started the same…
liking movement tho.
Clocks for tourney’s – yes, clocks for friendly games – no. I do feel streamlined game play is a plus and the models are great. So I will be looking forward to trying the game.
I’m liking what I’m hearing so far.
I see a lot of people disliking the Chess clock idea but I see how having the option for it in a tournament would be a benefit. Setting the rules up so you have the option for it is a good idea.
I am interested to see what happens to a unit as it takes casualties, I mean does a 40 man unit remain a 40 man unit after 20 casualties?
Ultimately, details are too few to make a proper assessment but I’m definitely looking forward to the next video!
I agree that its to early…maybe the video was just trying to air some key ideas that are in or out and just checking to see how much love or hate there is.
Seems clear that except for tournies ditch the clock….for competition maybe make allowance for it
A unit could be eliminated totally or downgraded… depending on how its handled will be interesting to see
roll on more vids and a pdf!
Anybody afraid of the clock has never experienced the awesomeness of Space Hulk.
So far, I am interested and curious how things will turn out. I was really hoping for something like this (a far higher abstraction than Warhammer, units rather than individuals). It seems to go for a bit of a Warmaster route in some aspects, which is great.
I am pretty sure there will be an interesting ruleset born from this, however I really hope Mantic can communicate that and manages to convince the conservative players to give it a spin too.
Anyway, cheers to Mantic and Alessio for doing something new and original and not coming up with Mantichammer instead.
Re space hulk
Thats a timer per turn not for the whole match…I can buy into that more than a chess clock. In a two hour match I could take 119 minutes to have one turn, BTW I went first 😉
With a space hulk based idea:
You have 5 minutes to move your 200 unit 10,000 goblin army and fight…to late the other players go with his 4 dragons now
I’m excited by Mantic making rules and thinking re tournies. looking forward to seeing more
I was merely stating that a bit of pressure due to a time-limit can add to the overall experience as seen in Space Hulk. That the Space Hulk way of handling time/timer is not working with the Mantic system is obvious.
I think having “play time” as a resource to manage while playing / as part of the game just like troops in the field, items and what not is a pretty clever idea. And quite uniqe too, I think.
The whole point is that both sides get the equal amount of time to play.
In a two hour game you only get 1 hour allotted to you. You could use that hour on your first turn and then your opponent would get their turn and could use any part of his hour before turning time back to you; at which point the game would be over because you have run out of time.
At that point you check the victory conditions and declare a winner. In chess there is only one overall victory condition; checkmate. In timed chess there is a second, when someone runs out of time. In a wargame if time runs out for one side it is possible to use other factors to declare victory; points killed, objectives etc, with perhaps a penalty for running out of time. All of that will be up to Alessio and Mantic to iron out.
You stated that when the time ran out you checked victory conditions, from what I understand this is incorrect.
It would appear, purely from the video discussion, that when you stall-out and the timer ends on your turn, before the win conditions are met, you forfeit the game.
The clock doesn’t seem to determine the actual end of the game, just limit how long it can run. I would assume that the game should finish before you run out of time, unless one person takes longer than planned for.
I would think that with practice you should get a pretty good feel for how long the game should take, and be able to plan accordingly.
Maybe certain scenarios will have a predetermined time, maybe not. Outside of tournaments I would think that both players would agree on the time allotted.
I love the rules so far, and for everyone saying ditch the clock for casual play, they already said that in the video. I love the clock for tourney play as it makes sure both players get equal amount of time for their turns and I would even consider using it in casual games just for the feel it would bring to the game.
I love having the units get the stats instead of individual models and I even like using counters instead of removing models because then like Warren said i could keep the models permanently in their formation like a diorama.
The only rule I am concerned about is only one person fighting in HtH. I will wait to see their idea for combat first before I make a judgment, but atm it feels like he who charges wins and that was something I hated about WHFB until 8th edition came out. Like I said though I will wait until I hear about combat rules/resolution before I get too worried.
Overall I like the sound of this system.
I like some of what was said and am cautious about the other stuff. However so early in the design process who knows what will be in there when the possible beta hits. At the end of the day its gonna be a system you have to try out, thats for sure, but at that price point I can’t imagine not giving this game a fair shake.
I find the chess clock idea very interesting, but it should not be forgotten, that different armies have different sizes… If I play with a massive undead army against a small elite dwarven army… I would have to manage my time at a ridiculous pace, while the dwarven fella could take his time a bit more. That would affect army building quite a bit, right?
With a chess clock it is possible to stagger time so that one player has more than the other. Perhaps the rule will be ‘ 10 minutes per regiment’ or something. That could level out the field while still keeping the amount of playing time close and more importantly for tournies, moving along.
I would expect your undead army to be made of a limited number of 40 man units while the Dwarves are likely to have several small shooting units and cannons… I guess it would even out in the end.
Oops, seem to have clicked on the wrong message to reply to, this is meant for the message below…
I find the chess clock idea fascinating, but I also can see it affecting army building considerably. If I were fielding a massive undead army against a small elite dwarven army, then the dwarven fella would definitely have an advantage over me… That would be a pity actually.
But, what’s wrong with that? Isn’t it much more realistic in some way? Also, using movement trays there shouldn’t be so much notable difference. Also, I don’t think the differences between an elite army and a horde army will be so great – if the “Mhorgoths Revenge” set is any indication, and the contents are balanced.
@pilkers, Ah but what if the clock was based on the number of stands you have or regiments or whatever. For instance a particular large undead horde with many stands may have 15-30 extra minutes where as a small force of dwarves might have reduced time. Also if the system is really simple you might not need the amount of time you think you need plus its not like you can’t make plans during your opponents turns.
I wasn’t so much worried about the planning times. Collecting your dice, rolling them, calculating your results etc could cost you buckets of time. That is of course directly related to the complexity of the rules. Should the amount of dice, the difficulties and results be clear and easy to calculate, then obviously it won’t be a major problem. I still hope that this little detail about time management is taken into account, should the chess clock remain as an idea.
Yes, giving extra time to larger armies would be a good way to solve this, should the complexity make it necessary. I was thinking along the same lines. Maybe the time you have could be in proportion to your army-relevant multiplier of 10 models… I don’t know. I hope Alessio will develop a fair equation to calculate such a time advantage.
PS: Excuse my double post from before… The site froze and things went downhill from there. 🙂
I think KISS has to rule
Maybe 5 minutes a turn with 2 hrs total play time. Based on that no more than 4d6 at a time and large armies simply field 40 rather than 10 man units etc
I like the idea of no saves. Sort of like D&D, (Attack versus AC). The saves is one thing I have always disliked about Warhammer, especially with some units having multiple saves. I would much rather role my dice and check their defense stat to see if I took out a model or not.
The clock is good for tourneys, adding tension and also could be used in scenarios aswell…for example putting more pressure on one force, meeting a certain objective within a timelimit during the game giving an advantage.
Even if it was built in as a must have part of the rules (which is unlikely), it’s not like someones going to come round and give you a kicking if you don’t play the rules exactly as presented.
The unit stat lines and casualties sounds very interesting, very much a feel of smaller scale games (6mm/10mm), and gives a feel of even more bodies being present. A unit might be represented by 20 models, but really the number doesn’t matter as long as they keep fighting and don’t break.
The ONLY slight reservation out of all the things said was that if there was no intermingling of the turns then there would to my mind have to be a system of “I activate a unit, you activate a unit” or “I do a phase, you do a phase.” If it was “I move my full army…and make ALL the dice rolls for that period” I could see things possibly being a little boring during the opponents turn.
All in all though for such a brief, and early, wee dip into the rules far more positives than negatives for me.
I also like the causality marker idea. For some armies that just seems fluffy (like the undead the necromancer just pops up a few more to keep the regiment sized but that must tax his concentration) and there are some cool mechanics one could do with that sort of mechanic. Like a grudge mechanic for the dwarves where they hit harder the more causality markers they have taken.
I think the point of causality markers was to prevent changing the stats of the squad after it took damage. So while the grudge idea is a good one, it would seem to go against the intent of the markers.
I see dwarves getting to re-roll their failed “nerve checks” or something similar.
Just the quick notes that I made whilst watching, so I apologise for the poor format:
timer: should be optional to remove (jn the rules, rather than as a houserule). It’s interesting and works well for promoting equality in time spent (my friend used to spend 3 hours per magic turn and did so for years), however it pressures those that are actually taking their time and gives a huge advantage to the more “brash” in that they can just do things and be losing, then suddenly win. 100% necessary in tournaments, but friendly games have to have it, unless BOTH players agree to not? However, this creates problems in terms of banter and chatting and pausing for lunch or stopping to take pictures, etc… Addressed that 😉 Need to create very cool looking clocks, generic, army specific and maybe make it as clock halves so that you can bring your army’s half and clip them together and play in a cool way?
morale: undead should maybe get +1 morale per 5 or 10 models (at least for zombies) in terms of breaking?
turn-based combat: very good idea and makes it a lot fairer and simpler. Cahrge and attack, be charged and defend, but get to attack next turn.
Unit profiles: seems simpler and easier, especially with the definitive sizes and regiment/warhost/troop names etc. Innovative and ingenious. Allows you to make the most of all models etc Will there be a way of saying adding x models (10 by the sounds of it) adds n, m and z to stats, a, b and f? How will the damage depletion be taken into effect regarding effectiveness beyond running away?
“casualties”: Warren stole my suggestion! Still, there is already a dwarf casualty model!
sideways/backwards movement: Much simpler and prevents needing to turn, move, then turn again, which is brillaint! Would turning cost any movement? Is only one “movement type” allowed per movement phase? I.E. Can I only turn or can I turn, then move? Ah, that’s just been answered 😀 Sounds interesting, but makes infantry a little ineffective at reacting which could be a problem and see a huge amount of cavalry heavy armies as movement is usually considered the most important phase…
I think the clock is an interesting idea and would work well.. But the problem is the size of armies. I could have the same clock and play a tiny game and take my jolly time because I onl have to move 3 units. But if I have like 19 units then I would probably have a heart attack trying to move all those guys and shooting and attacking with them. Maybe if integrated into the point system that for a EG. 1000 points match an hour time, for a 3000 Point match maybe an hour and a half.
I like the sound of the chess clock. But do not like the idea of having to buy one in order to play. Plus I think it would look out of place on the table. I like the idea of unit stat lines. But at this stage it sounds like any heroes you have are left standing on the field alone, making them very squishy. AS for the thoughts on casualties, I have to say I too prefer to have modes removed, rather than having a stack of counters sitting next to the unit. Having a full war host of 40 models on the table when only 3 models are left in the unit seems silly and wrong. I have seen one or two comments about the infantry movement. And I have to agree the idea that if an infantry unit pivots it is done its movement, dose not appeal to me. I would prefer if a pivot took up 1/2 the unit’s movement or something along these lines.
And now to sound like a broken record;
There are a lot of beautiful miniatures out there. It would be a crying shame if this rule set only supported armies that Mantic has already but out. I would love to see something in the rules that would allow a person to play with an army that was produced by another company. And have that army feel like the army it is and not just a stand in for an already existing army. It would be great if an orc army had an orc feel to it or a human army to play different that the Dwarfs. Or how about being able to play an all close combat nid army. Now that would be cool to see.
So please put something in the rules that allows people to bring in other armies.
And let’s be honest here at this point and time mantic only has 3 armies out. With one more arriving in the new year.
Ronnie from Mantic did mention in the first video of KoW Weekend that they gladly point to other miniatures out there. I guess that’s a good sign.
Yes it is a good sing. My concern is that they mean other miniatures of the armies they have in their game. So other Dwarfs, Elves and Undead. But not other armies.
I’m sorry, but I don’t see that actually happening,. It simply wouldn’t make sense financially for them to put time and money balancing a ‘codex’ for a whole army of models that they have no chance of making money off of. They will likely put rules out for a number of units In the dwarf/elf/undead armies that they won’t sell for a while, same as GW and their codex’s.
When they do announce another army I suspect that it will be because they are in the works for providing models for that army. Humans will probably be next, though they could surprise us and actualy release the fish-men.
Ok, much has beed said about the chess clock. People who don’t like it, don’t get it. It’s not to make the game complex, it’s to make the battle really happening now and give it some sort of real-time aspect.
The main problem really is, that one of the players has a couple of minutes, where he cannot do anythinh, this should be adressed.
Main interesting point for me:
Why not use the chance and make cc and shooting really the same? The attack move seems aged and WHFB-like.
I would just make 2 Phases: Movement Phase, Damage Phase
You could either shoot or charge in the Damage Phase, if you didn’t “double!” in the Movement Phase.
Why can’t a general first wait for some shooting and then send his caverly in, to finish the enemy regiment? Why does he has to decide beforehand?
This would give much more tactical freedom, would simplify the rules in a way, where the become more streamlined and much more distinct from WHFB.
Units vs models:
Guys, you won’t have 2 or 3 models left, from regiments, if you get that much damage, you will flee long time ago.
You all haven’t heard about “Impetus” yet, do you? It’s a historical game very popular in Italy and Spain, but also with a growing following in other areas of the world. A Fantasy version has been made available online lately for testing by the community.
Regarding mechanics Alessio’s ideas sound exactly like what Impetus already provides: units over single miniatures, simple movement, adding casualties and rolling against your opponent’s morale values etc. I like this approach quite a bit, but one shouldn’t pretend they are innovative.
In fact the tendency towards simplified rules is obviously a Mediterranean thing, and Alessio is an Italian – surprise, surprise! ::)
I like the idea of units over individual models, but at the same time, Mantic’s miniatures are 28mm individually based figures, so removing a figure per casualty is much more preferrable than using tokens. Also, I like the movement, and the chess clock could be a great option to try out! I can just see the enjoyment now, looking at the clock, and having a great time laughing about the time you’re wasting, or that you forgot to do something because you were in a rush! Its quite a bit of added pressure, but its fun pressure. Besides, I don’t see how they could work it into the rules where it couldn’t be easily removed or added at one’s leisure. Thing is though, I don’t want to buy one.
I don’t like WHFB very much at all (in fact, tbh I borderline hate it), but my brother loves it. If this game ends up being fairly good, who knows, we might be using our Citadel miniatures to play Kings of War,
rather than buying Mantic miniatures to play Warhammer Fantasy. 🙂
I feel like playing chess now…
Black Powder is one of my favourite games and I really enjoy the whole concept. If Kings of War follow the same path I can see myself getting into this game. I like the clock idea.
It will be interesting to see how they are going to do damage, I think it will be a lot like BP…
which would be a “good thing” ™ 🙂
I don’t think it would be unfair to horde armies… I think the army with more actual units would need a bit more time, but unit size itself shouldn’t come into play so much. You can have a lot of small units in an elite army.
I agree with trebormills about preferring a You go I go system. One bonus if you did use the clock in a UgoIgo is that you could make any saves by wounds caused and “nerve” tests at the beginning of your phases. This would also balance out some of the unevenness of armies with many units vs a few units as a player who has no units left would still have to clock in to roll any saves or tests they have to do.
As for the clock itself, it’s not a huge deal. It’s easier to take out than put in. As in you can say between friends or at your club “let’s not play with the clock today” but at a tournament try suggesting “let’s use a timer for theses games”. A way to make it more palatable would be to assign certain victory points to it… not necessarily a game decider but points that could tip a draw into a win.
Since we’re on UgoIgo, not that you’re going that way but I’m on a roll, in regards to priority; which units go first, second and so on….
you could work it out from the general according to proximity.. it would give the general’s positioning even more value… and making him mounted would be of greater value etc. The only exception would be units led by heroes/officers which could jump order if threating units move into range. So the general could hang out with the war machines to make sure they get their shots off and then rush up once the battle lines closed… and if a unit gets too close to a unit with a hero in it (and it hasn’t acted yet) that hero could seize the initiative and charge forward as your next unit to move… it is supposed to next or not.
Hmmm, just a small observation…but if you look at the still picture that introduces all this….
AC looks like he is thumping his chest just like Kong Kong & and Warren is doing a GRRR! impression of Godzila…
Or is just me?
I only have two concerns thus far. 1.) I hope it isn’t just standardized for cm. At least having an inches option would be good enough. 2.) I’m not sure if the nerve test will be a sufficient way to depict the way troops would be hindered from sustaining damage in combat.
The whole chess clock thing isn’t really a problem since it just seems to be optional.
biggest problem is this long wait for another exclusive………
Hi guys, and thanks for your comments. I just wanted to confirm that the clock is just an option, and one that I imagine will be used rarely (at tournaments and by people that like playing timed games… like myself!).
The rules are written assuming that the players won’t use a timer. Timed games are no more than a little box-out a few paragraphs long…
Later!
KEY POINT- rules not written assuming a timer but can cope with it via box out
+1
Looking forward to more
Let’s just hope it’s not getting too simple. At least if i wanted to play Table Top with the ruleset of Chess, i would just do so. But it seems simplicity is the new way to play… just look at Pen ‘n Paper Games.
I like the idea of an unit-based game, makes it feel more like commanding an army,
the clock sounds more like a tournament rule,
I personally play wargames for the heck of it and to drink some beers with my mates,
what I like is the idea of an activation like in Hordes, having command points or something like that to move, charge, shoot ect. ect.
wont the time limit really hurt horde armies such as undead. I think a great idea would be to assign command points based on the commanders profile and this determines the amount of moves an army could make.
I like the thoughts about the movement.And everything seems very interesting, i could never thought about how someone starts making rules about a game (thanks guys)
I would like to see a more interactive way of fighting, like.. The first player starts moving his unit (attack or shoot or move) count the damage on the opponent and then the second player respond with his similar unit (maybe based on how quickly a unit can respond depending the type). Time is interesting though, a bit ball-busting , but interesting 🙂
Secondly. i like to be able to remove models from the unit when they die, in my opinion it adds to the game to be able and see a broken up unit trying to fight (and see the casualties of your enemy) rather than represent it with counters.
That’s my humble opinions, i am in no way an expert player so i might be wrong in the playability of things.
I’m beginning to think that the rules may be to tourney orientated which could be a detriment to friendly play. I much prefer that both players get to do something during a turn, it gives more interaction between them and you feel that you are having an effect on the battle, just sitting there watching your opponant roll dice cannot be much fun – but we will see. And chess clocks cost upwards of £25 so I don’r see me buying one of them.
I do not at all like the sound of there being no rallying. That units that break are simply removed.
I hope that gets removed in the retail version – it annoys me enough that I will likely throw the rules away, and just use the minis for WHFB or some other game.
I like the sound of the chess clocks, but if I have a choice between chess clocks or rallying then rallying wins hands down.
The Auld Grump
I love how the units are sold as a standard unit. I also love how simple the unit based combat will be. My only worry lies with the rigidity of the units. While diorama units would be very pretty, they would have trouble moving through terrain and between other units. As easy as it is to forget when using movement trays, the units are still made up of individual models. In fact, due to the wonderful unit composition, units are made up of smaller units. It would be amazing if this was used to break up the unwieldiness of the larger units.
Changing formation wasn’t mentioned in the clip, but it’s an integral part of formation warfare. While pivoting is fine for smaller regiments but for a wide, warhost it doesn’t make much sense. Terrain could cause larger wider units unable to chase down smaller thinner squads. But it would be amazing if larger units could split into their smaller components, with a successful leadership/nerve test. Using points-expensive command units and banners you could denote how many squads made up a single unit.
If the smaller troops could combine in the field to create a larger regiment, or warhost, that would be even more versatile. It should not be too difficult if the system for scaling is simple enough. Obviously they’d carry their causalities with them and divide them evenly when they split. (This could actually be handy for spreading the pain around by mingling with your allied units, reminding them that they are part of a greater army.)
Different types of units could even be combined. A regiment of a troop of archers protected by shield-men would be a strong combination, and a realistic one.
Cavatore, this makes a lot of sense to me. It’s not that complicated and would add a whole new layer to tactics and army building. How close am I to what you’re already planning?
First post so don’t crucify me, I really like the look of this. As someone who’s getting back into war gaming after a few years out I must say the pricing is amazing and the rule seem simple enough that my dad could learn them but they don’t loose to much tactical depth, also as someone who has played a lot of tournament level magic the gathering over the past few years the idea of an “optional” chess clock sounds really fun. I will be ordering some today.