Cult Of Games XLBS: Challenge Yourself! Add Realism To Your Wargame Mechanics
March 10, 2024 by warzan
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Whoa, am I first? Yes, intricate rules are where it is at … at least IMHO. 😀
Happy Sunday everyone!
Happy SUnday,
may your day be filled with the greatest movie ever made and may you enjoy nuggets
What did poor Shay do to get preached at for an hour by Warren…. lol
He confused OTTERS with – Otter: A slender, hairy member of the bear community with a passive personality. Although both can be true
A response worthy of @lludan. Let’s just go with Caesar’s comic interpretation
Turned up
Realism isn’t always fun, mind you. Suppose you’re playing a historically accurate wargame where your troops are poorly trained, or your superiors give you goals that are politically motivated, rather than strategic. And many conflicts hinge on logistics and attrition, which I’d presume are pretty boring for a gamer.
It is pointless to resist Cerveza Cristal.
An easy way to make random effects like your musket barrel stuff is to add the turn number to the test. It is easier than counting we exactly how many times each unit fores a shot.
Hobgoblin would be perfect for Warren.
@warzan Most black powdergames usually givea plus to the first volley a unit fires in the game to simulate cold barrels. Probably easier than keeping track of reducing the quality of the firearms. I woukd say its the same with smoke from weapons fire in that it woukd the same for both sides usually
I think what is missing is hidden movement and spotting from pre 20th century games as is scouting before battle . There are some games that do it and to my mind are all the better for it
Happy (Mothers Day) Sunday for any mothers watching to day. Brilliant show lads, so good i have watched it again. Love warrens wee chat about rules in fantasy battles, i am looking into a solo massed Fantasy battle rule set called “CHRONICLES OF BLOOD”.It is miniature agnostic just basically frontage size, i am thinking of introducing arrow count so what the model has on it that is the amount of arrows it can only fire until resupplied if it uses them all up also thinking about introducing chance cards that can change the battle conditions say with weather, say it rains, this can effect shooting, or ground conditions like mud which could reduce movement etc, so really enjoyed Warrens chat today, so i am now going to watch it again. Oh Ps also backed the Hobgoblin kick-starter so will enjoy looking at that when it finally arrives.
Hi XLBSers & COGz
Yes a beer before battle just like this Galaxy then.
2p’s or not 2p’s that is the question???
Warren’s based are sponsored by PLAYSCHOOL ?
Windage & elevation @avernos ?
Sharpe can do four but ?
Points for the editor
Great show guy’s I take it Gerry picked the sponsor of this show ?
Very happy to hear Ganesha Games mentioned in dispatches. I’ve had many a fun demo of their various games. Absolutely lovely system, nice and simple but dashed good fun. I’m eyeing up a solo campaign of Song of Blades and Heroes.
I’m definitely on the side of simpler games. These days I play too rarely, and I’ve not enough brain left after a week’s coding to cope with the likes of Infinity or Warmachine.
I’ve not played in a while but I think that Malifaux hit the spot perfectly for me, simple enough core system but lots of flavour added in.
One thing I loved about Bolt Action is for the most part, a rifle is a rifle is a rifle and it’s the training and morale that differentiates one unit and another .
I get that people love a crunchy game but without someone to hold my hand throughout, I just don’t have the capacity any more.
Lovely projects. My envy to you all!
Happy Sunday!
00:00 I have a bad feeling about this!
00:30 I knew the ads where creeping up on Gerry via possible 9gag XD
01:00 Shay…. XD
02:35 Well we’re still CoGs in the inner circle. But we all are OTTers
03:20 Hah, this is know *g*
04:13 Har har har
19:13 Focus Tim, focus! *doozes off again* I hate being sick
23:00 Kristallbier!
28:00 Sidenote: is it just me or is @avernos soundling like he’s on the wrong mic?
43:00 I have a hard enough time remembering the basic rule of any game I play. Adding that level of realism, turning a GAME into a SIMULATION, is way beyond anything I enjoy. Big no for me.
1:00:00 Gesundheit @warzan
1:07:30 Nooooooooooooooooooooo!
1:13:45 he did build his rome.
1:25:00 All the traders galaxy stuff!
Happy paddyday!
@warzan I would be interested in a lets play or article on gameplay for Mayhem.
Now for the flippancy ?:
An introduction to fantasy gaming (parental advisory): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MWbRsMVQxwM
@avernos you may need this when you play @warzan https://www.machinemart.co.uk/p/clarke-cs4-6e-belt–disc-sander/
@warzan, has Gerry shown Fantastic Battles to you? Although in theory it was designed as a 10mm game, it’s base agnostic and does show games with wrong sized minis (ie big’uns!) only 7 units in the game but the flavour comes from different characteristics that add points cost (or deduct). Cap on number per unit to 1 racial and max 3 unit specific
Ben’s face when Warren is talking about the joys of the puzzles and codes… experiences may have differed.
I am so confused by the beer/Star Wars crossing of streams right now that I’ll just take a sit down and paint.
Interesting thoughts on base agnostic systems and the poly system of Mayhem. It might open up other gaming as I manage to turn some friends to SAGA (for example).
First of all, a big shoutout to @brennon for the MERCS reference, Err on the side of carnage! Good times.
In general, I don’t like rank and flank games. That being said, Runewars with its hidden orders and X-Wing style movement and order of activations really intrigued me and it remains a favorite game. Too bad it’s virtually disappeared.
I’ve got virtually no interest in mass battle games simply because of time. I hate it when people want to inflate a game and put even more stuff on the table. I want to play the same game multiple times so I can try alternative forces, try different scenarios or strategies and in general, just get more games in. Mass battles just means boring, long slogs with no resolution and immense amounts of just waiting around. It’s just not for me.
Ok, now on to something @avernos mentioned regarding the American Cuvil War. The Union army had two types of units. The regular army and the state volunteers. The state forces were raised by the governors of the various states and the governors appointed the officers of the respective regiments. This allowed them to spread out the political patronage so raising more regiments or fulfilling the higher quotas that were levied on the states became increasingly more important because the governors could spread that patronage around even more. The practical effect was that as the war ran on and units took casualties, the regiments didn’t get replacements. So a Union regiment might start out with around 1000 soldiers but by the end of the war might be down to around 200. So taking the Iron Brigade as an example, it had three regiments when initially formed but by the end of the the Gettysburg campaign was down to around 700 men in the whole brigade. After Gettysburg two new regiments got added so it at least had some soldiers in it but it was still under strength. One state, and I don’t remember which one, possibly Indiana?, did have a policy of sending new troops to old regiments to bring them back up to strength. Most Union generals preferred to have these regiments as part of their formations as it effectively gave them more troops.
@warzan there was a turn based computer game covering the American Civil War In the late 90s? that had an interesting pre-battle feature where you could change the weapons of your units on a unit by unit basis, issue the units more food or pay them. You could potentially do all three but the effects of those decisions varied by the time frame and the army. Generally speaking if you were playing a Confederate army, paying your army didn’t help a lot because the Confederate money was essentially worthless. You also had more limitations on what weapons you could trade out. Feeding your army generally had a good effect on morale ( the game assumed they were still getting feed but your decision was to concentrate on providing above average food). If you played the Union army, your units had a bewildering variety of weapons, all of different calibers and capabilities. So trying to decide how much effort you should put into standardizing your units became a real challenge. I say all this to say, I didn’t have to worry about any of that during the game. That was all stuff I could do a few clicks of the mouse with before the scenario started and then the computer handled all that in the background.
This particular game had many multi day battles so fighting ended at night but you could rest units, move them around or have them entrench overnight, so you were in a real sense altering the conditions of battle. One really intriguing aspect of the game was that in addition to the scenario defined objectives and victory conditions, new ones were generated wherever the highest number of casualties occurred. So particularly bloody assaults or stubborn defenses took on a life of their own as those geographic features now started to be worth an ever increasing amount of victory points. Now, the only board game I know of that had a similar feature was Chitin 1.
Chitin 1 was an old Metagaming Concepts Microgame. It was a sci fi hex and counter game where two different hives of intelligent insects battled for resources, food being the predominant one. The board had specific areas where crops could be harvested you had to protect your workers from enemy fighters so they could harvest the food. What was interesting was as units died, both yours and the enemies, it increased the value of the harvest because the workers gathered up the corpses too, because it was all biomass. This game came out in the mid 70s so well before the Tyranids made an appearance.
And finally, Cerveza Cristal!
Interesting XLBS, few things to ponder.
1/ I believe the Cthulhu Campaigns of Ancient Rome was done by Mark Latham who also did some rules expansions or his Rome vs Fantasy Monsters game Broken Legions from Osprey. https://mark-latham.com/products/broken-legions/ was also covered in Wargames Illustrated 358.
2/ The degrading gunpowder loaded firearms tends to get represented by a bonus on first fire, then after that fires as normal in the rules, or you could try it other way, fire normal first shot some minus after that. So only need a first fire token to take away. Same with Cavalry they get one or two tokens so they can make that many charges in a game as historicly you got maybe two charges out of cavalry unit, first charge 50/50 they reform to come back and do something useful again. So try making something one use in a game, one time artillery fires, magic spell cast, cavalry charge, bow fire volley.
3/ As for other options for a token light game often makes use of card mechanics, some of the more seemingly popular examples right now, Many Lardies games, Valour & Fortitude, Nevermind the Billhooks, Test of Resolve, For King and Parliament, Skirmish Warames and many other examples.
Firstly with the mention of Grand Manner I felt the chest pains coming on and thoughts like “hot needles and eyes” sprang to mind. I last played the rules in 2015 for a refight of Waterloo and all I can say is that they are rules of their time and in my opinion its not now! I played these originally in the 1980’s along with other “detail” driven rules such as Bruce Quarrie’s Napoleons Campaigns in Miniature. The detail and the accompanying bookkeeping and arguments about said bookkeeping really slowed the game down.
From the historical (or hysterical depending on opinion) conditions such as musketry bonus can be dealt with as a bonus for first shot as in Black Powder. Other conditions such as weather can be best catered for by scenario based rules. In a recent refight of the Battle of Falkirk the worsening weather reduced everyone’s musketry rating so in the end most muskets were reduced to clubs but it did the trick with the Government forces having to “rush” their advance to get the best out of firepower before the weather came into play. The other workable mechanisms I’ve seen used that work (again in my opinion) are the “event” triggered by the cards in Musket and Tomahawks so may not actually come into play if cards don’t appear in right sequence or just dicing for a potential “event” each turn (usually a 6 on a D6) and if occurs draw from an event deck.
I enjoy games where there are changing battlefield conditions and you have to adapt to the situation. Limited ammunition is a great option, weapons wearing out and such are great for conflicts where that matters. But another thing I would like to see implemented more is changing weather conditions. For instance, it starts raining and a lot of the ground gets muddier and soggier and it just get harder to manoeuvre through it. Fog can set in and limit visibility all kind of stuff like that.