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Cult Of Games XLBS: Does “The Lore” Influence You Starting A New Wargame?
August 4, 2024 by avernos
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CoGs, OTTers, Backstagers….Happy Sunday to you all.
Of course lore matters! If you want to see if this is true or not get a space marine army and a genestealer force and use OPR rules and your brain will translate it into 40K lore. Get mantic enforcers and chaos Marines and your brain just can’t get emersed in the story.
Replace the Nurgle marines with The Plague and suddenly it’s ‘game on’ again.
Sometimes it can be something even more subtle. I put all fantasy on squares -‘As nature intended’ as Gerry would say. When I did it to ASOIAF and AoS minis some of my gaming group couldn’t comprehend what I’d done. ‘AoS on Squares? But, But….’ The ASOIAF reaction was even stranger as I made special ASOIAF movementtrays for square based minis. Same size as normal etc. Minds blown.
Ben’s point about Oathmark is well made. Give players a Lore and they will either say ‘But the Lore is…’ or ‘but in my version of the lore….’. Give them licence to do whatever they like Oathmark, or Saga Age of Magic (for example) and they can’t deal with the freedom.
Yup – it’s a conundrum!
Lore is a thing of opposing viewpoints. If the gaming environment has lore I’ll likely scramble through and select what I like according to the game world. In this instance I’d take it according to aesthetics of the faction models. I fell in with the 2nd edition Miners&Steamfitters Union of the Arcanists for Malifaux for the steampunk that it gave.
I find myself, however, gravitating to miniatures agnostic games, like SAGA for example, because I’m afforded the freedom to assemble an army as I want from the ground up and write the associated lore for why I selected models. Various sculptors made the figures but I give the figures a raison d’etre (look at that fanciness) within my assembled force. There is thematic cohesion by storytelling even if the ranges of models happen to differ.
Research can be important in providing consistency to plot and backstory (what a Man of Culture really appreciates). In the former it’s accuracy to established canon while in the latter the creation and adherence to establishing canon that are most important.
This topic may have future implications
Good points!
Starwars legion has no lore based gaming. It’s just a competitive slog. I wanted some more fluff based with scenarios and story telling so I use other rules
What rules do you use out of interest?
True but it’s a solid system embedded in an established universe. The fact it’s Star Wars does the heavy lifting. The fact it’s a good system is a bonus.
The only lore that anyone needs is the history of one of thec Judges in Mega City One
Talking of WW2 fantasy are you thinking of Wessex Games Panzerfauste?
Oh I shouldn’t have paused. You got there yourselves
Is it lore or is it more atmosphere. I don’t mind the rules to Age of Sigmar but I’ve never liked the game because I can’t work out why this conflict is happening (AoS isn’t alone in this). Franchise and historical already have there ground work done, but new games/workds have a lot to do. One of my favourite games is Carnivale which started with little to no lore, but the Venice setting was so rich it just flourished. Infinity had a bit more work when it started but the mega Corp Animie feel just worked. Now take AoS (when it first launched) it was a generic high fantasy, but what was happening. Human cities and farms were ignored in favour of these mythology battles but why. What were the stormcasts aims. They didn’t seem to be protecting anything as the setting hadn’t given them a reason to.
I think you’ve hit the nail on the head there. Atmosphere is all. If the lore is there you can dive in, if it’s not you can write your own or just ignore it. I’ve enjoyed all three.
keep it up
Happy Sunday plastic junkies?
While watching this I’ve been painting Poxwalkers for the Darktide tabletop game. Other than “it’s 40k” I don’t know the lore of the game at all. That’s fine though, it’s a self-contained game and looks simple enough to play with the lad.
Once that’s done I’ll get back to some Turnip28, which AFAIK has little more than the setting. I’m not arsed about the lack of lore, the aesthetics are superb and I think that’s what appealed to me more.
Then I’ve Trench Crusade, which is going heavy on the lore and it’s brilliant IMO. After that it’s 40k minis for a not-40k game. Here I can concoct my own lore within the grimdark.
This afternoon I’ll head out for some Brimstone. I know very little about the exact lore but I can understand the tropes and it’s a lot of fun.
So we’ve got “don’t care it looks fun” (x2), “don’t care it looks great”, “amazing lore” and “I’ll make my own”. I think it’s aesthetics for me, and as @thursday very astutely said, atmosphere.
Is that book the one you took from the desert @avernos ??
I have a suggestion for your hefylumps Gerry I’ll stick on discord for you ??
look forward to it
HAPPY SUNDAY!!!
It’s not F.A.Q. now John it’s W.T.F. additions from G.W.?
Yes Lore brings the game an characters to life in my head to keep the interest alive for me anyways.??
Happy Sunday.
I’m still waiting for my Moonstone stuff, I’m sure it’ll arrive any day now, any day….
Although I find it nice for a rules system to come with some background but for me I’m much more about the actual rules as a selling point. Games like Five Leagues From The Borderlands where a lot of things are generated on tables and the background it’s almost an emergent property are great.
Black Sails is a great show Ben.?
Fantastic button winner’s?
Love the show guy’s ??
It’s not abusive messages it’s strongly worded incuragement statements.?
Hot Sunday
00:00 YES, it does matter!
00:25 “Oh” – that says all.
02:30 “A sick car” – and I was wondering when the car would appear as hobby on the XLBS. GREASEMONKEYS UNITE! @johnlyons
05:00 limpy huffs
07:00 On Show Shopping!
11:00 “It’s not that much” – what like that is what she said.
13:00 Making all the notes!
16:00 playing with painted minis? WEIRD!
25:00 uwu? oO
27:00 one box fits all – isn’t that just boardgames?
29:00 that’s how 40k/AoS has worked for years
30:00 Post Nut Clarity
33:00 hardware violation!
34:30 MAWM tempting people – I hate you
36:00 ARGH! Don’t mention battletech
37:15 the moment when @avernos soul left his body
43:00 “I pee games” does that hurt @brennon ? XD
44:00 isn’t SAGA the example?
48:30 So at what scale is that than? Billion Suns? *g*
58:00 Fluff players for the win!
1:05:00 Nooooooo you need the correct models!11!!
1:07:00 Squirrel!
1:08:oo Boats!
1:11:30 Awiens!
1:14:00 stroking people is wrong!
1:15:00 more boats!
1:20:00 U2 – nooooooo
1:25:30 Tuffy painted all the things again as they arrived
1:30:00 outside? there it has peoples!
Nice show. See you lot on Tuesday!
@johnlyons seriously do a project with your project car!
I have fully painted armies. I’m a full-kit w*nk*r! NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! ?
*pats on the back* It’s all good. With painted armies we’re all wankers down here
I have to admit, lore in general (or new worlds and lore) does not matter to me that much, because I only play in a few settings that are already established and which I grew up with – like the Warhammer Old World, Middle-Earth and the world of Conan and King Kull.
So, as Gerry said, I don’t care about Pannithor, but I will use ‘Kings of War’ as a ruleset to play a campaign in the Old World.
Bam ?
The lore not having any relation to the rules is why I dislike 40k. I might as well play OPR and stop pretending there is a background to any of the armies or units. (but then OPR is adding more lore to its rules these days so it’s no longer the blank canvas it used to be)
I need there to be just enough to get me hooked, while the rules/game itself still respect the lore.
So a game that says “character A hates character B” but then still allows them to work as a team annoys me.
Imagine creating a WW2 army that has British troops and German SS paratroopers … fighting on the same side.
That’s too horrible to imagine.
I don’t need huge libraries of lore, because then all the gaps are filled and there is no room left to move.
There needs to be room to breath as it were.
Games without lore are like chess … and that’s boring.
My first thought was YES LORE MATTERS IT’S ALL THAT MATTERS, but on second thought it’s more of a delicate balance. Like Ben says, lore really helps me get into a game and explore its world. Also, if I don’t feel attracted by the lore I’m more likely to not get into a game. That said, sometimes the atmosphere is enough for me to get tempted by a game, like Sludge or the Doomed (for which I can’t find other people to join me unfortunately).
Sometimes I do get ‘distracted’ by the lore so much that I will only field forces because they feel cool and mostly ignore what will actually help me win. Which means I mostly lose… This might also be because I’m a mediocre player, but I do feel that some games could reward lore loyalty more.
Cool miniatures also help, although in the case of Sludge and the Doomed it’s just because I feel inspired by other’s kitbashery. When IP miniatures are unappealing, I’m less likely to get into a game, like Mantic’s games for example. I think their lore is fine and the game systems are good too. The miniatures are just big no for me. That said, I could substitute others, but I’d only do that if there were others playing the games near me.
Lore matters, but I won’t stick with a poor ruleset because of it. I have a lot of fondness for the 40k setting but GW’s offerings don’t do it for me because the game itself just doesn’t look fun to play.
I am more drawn to Mantic games for their rules, I only really have an elevator pitch level of knowledge about the various factions. Enough to get the vibe of the setting but I haven’t felt inclined to pick up a novel.
The setting needs to be eye catching but it does not necessarily need vast depth. Miniatures agnostic games on the other hand run the risk of feeling disjointed and therefore ‘off’. Give me enough cohesion and detail to get me into a NB creative for the action and after that it is up to the rules to deliver the twists and player agency that makes it a fun experience.
Too often, “lore” translates to “buy and paint our expensive mini’s”. I’ve bought enough mini’s, and would rather have a miniatures agnostic game system with a ruleset that does more than throw dice, and some non-combat campaign activities for my characters. (Five Leagues from the Borderlands, Five Parsecs from Home, and Lasting Tales are a good start.)