Cult Of Games XLBS: Buy More Wargaming Rules & Battle The Boring!
November 10, 2024 by crew
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Happy Sunday CoGs, OTTers and Backstagers!
My thoughts for the episode: A great selection of insanity for the weekend. To see the temple progress with paint is just the kind of thing for Christmas we all can sit and anticipate. Terrainfest this year is a sumptuous treat for a different aspect of the hobby.
I really should get on to steal..*ahem* acquiring an appropriate CoG design for my fez.
Less minis and more rules? What is this insanity I hear? How can I make the batshit crazy armies I have as ideas into reality if I don’t have the figures to field? As is, I can readily get mechanical tigers but not a damn good regular Bengal (way too many of those smilodons).
All around good work by the crew and I look forward to more from the Golden Button winners.
One of the reasons I buy loads of RPG expansions and rules was to look at the various aspects in them.
Some may have interesting adventures, others had cool gear and some had interesting mechanics.
Historical games already have that aspect built-in. You collect an army and then buy rules until you find one that really fits the army you want to represent on the tabletop. Or you use parts of rules and apply them as your house rules for your favorite game.
And speaking of potentially interesting rules : “Argueing when …”
https://tabletopmatrixwargames689972109.wordpress.com/
It is all about the narrative aspect of a scenario. The book itself is focused on historical period, but I think there’s things that can be applied to regular games as well.
I think it may be the perfect tool to use when players are not sure how a certain action would work within their chosen rule set.
I did talk to the author who was doing the demo, but didn’t have time left to play it at gaming convention, because I had already spent half the day playing ACW and wanted to look around the rest of the convention before it closed.
A rulebook can also be a good purchase just for the fluff, model photography, or the artwork.
Happy Sunday COGz an OTTers 👍✨
Happy Sunday! Great show this morning, I was in a good mood when I sat down to watch it, and I am in an even better mood now!
Really interesting topic. I was similarly “well yes of course” when Ben stated his view, but the ensuing conversation raised some good discussion.
I was reminded of some videos I watched on YouTube where someone (Ralph Astley) played the same ‘bank raid’ scenario 4 times using 4 different Wild West skirmish rulesets (from memory I think it was Legends of the Old West, Dead Man’s Hand, Gunfighters Ball and Tombstone) in order to test and compare them. The videos themselves were a bit dry and a grind to get through so I won’t bother trying too hard to find and link them, but the idea was great, and the comparison was fascinating. My conclusion was that I didn’t think any of them were my ideal ruleset, so i am going to make my own, but exploring all of these rulesets will enable me to do that. Each was good in their own way, but none of them perfect from my perspective.
In terms of people complaining about rules, I think if you play in tournaments or want to play pick up games with strangers then you’re kind of stuck with the official rules. This is of course exacerbated by companies who reinforce these game modes. But for the most of us who play with friends and groups, modifying rules should be encouraged. A wider knowledge of game mechanics can only help with this. So I totally agree with Ben. When the urge to impulse buy arises (for example at a convention) think twice about buying into a new range of miniatures, and consider a rule book instead. That’s great advice and I will try to adopt it!
Another topic which might be interesting to explore in the future is the “miniature agnostic” point. I am 100% with Gerry that from a gamer’s perspective all games can be considered miniature agnostic. You can play any games with whatever minis you have. BUT I think where the concept is relevant is from a business and game design perspective. As a game developer you have to think about your business model. What kind of business am I going to be and how am I going to make money? In the industry we have rules agnostic miniature designers, miniature agnostic game designers, companies that do everything themselves, and various combinations in between. I think it is important for a creator to be clear on who they are and what their business model is. Too many games have gone under because a company has taken on the burden of miniature production, and the costs associated with that have brought the whole company down. If they had consciously gone miniature agnostic they and their game might still be in production. Massive Awesome’s Shattered Earth springs immediately to mind. By releasing rules on their own, a game can simmer in the zeitgeist for years, gradually growing a following. If initial take-up is low, no problem. If it goes well, plenty of companies will make bespoke miniatures for you. Thought I must admit, I am usually disappointed when games designed to be miniature agnostic later bring out their own model range. It’s like a movie adaptation of a book. It’s never usually what you imagined!!!
While rules may not have an ‘official’ line of minis, it does help sell the game because seeing the stuff come to live on a tabletop can help make things click.
Creators of historical rules tend to have an easy decision, because unless the theatre/era is unique chances are good someone out there already has made miniatures that would fit.
It would be good if more players embraced their own imagination instead of relying on someone else to do the imagining for them. In a way GW has done a lot of damage to the hobby by re-enforcing the “official products” only stance. It makes sense from a business point of view, but imagination is a skill that needs nurturing and training.
there is one other point about rules with official miniatures. Often these rules sets are the means to sell a miniatures line which is why Bolt Action has now multiple editions and why 40K is up to 10, 1st – 3rd were all distinctive changes (although each encouraged more models on the table) But 3rd – 10th, seven whole editions, have largely been pointless except they keep reinforcing the concept of buying more miniatures and rebuying the rulebooks.
I assume you mean 4th-10th being 7 editions and regarding 40K I largely agree, although imho 8th was one of the original 3rd ediition variant ideas they put out as a reboot on the hashed up 4th – 7th.
Xmas I’ve at the 24 hour garage for Gerry 🤔👍
Buzzing to infinity an Beyond
So the Romans stole the numeracy from the Aztec’s ?🤔
Great topic guys. As anyone who has seen our streams will know, rules are my obsession in the hobby. My biggest disappointment is discussing hobby with or gamers who are ignorant of the breadth of options out there. Having so much of the oxygen sucked out of the hobby space by a big company that fosters no culture of experimentation is a part of it, but your community has been life changing for me in this regard, and presumably for many others.
Happy Sunday!
00:00 Welcome to the eXtra Large Backstage Show 8)
02:30 Christmas Shopping
03:20 Where is it?! WHERE?!
04:40 It’s called “ask me anything” not “answers guaranteed” XD
05:30 Phase three? BREASTS OF WAR!
06:15 Ben is over? Moonstone lets play! Borrows and Badgers! Mordheim! Let @brennon run nuts!
07:15 I’m not touching anybody!1!1!
08:00 Drinking and chatting? Oh my!
13:00 dreading the balls
16:18 scale it up. Go big or go home
18:00 cats do indeed tinkle
23:00 All I see is a battletech board XD
27:00 red onez go fasta!
38:00 Found a city? oO
39:20 cn’entinals?
51:30 Pizzaball? Turtles?
53:00 Stop buying miniatures?! DA FUQ!? What’s wrong with you?!
1:05:00 Miniature agnostic! 8) XD
1:09:00 Macross? 8)
1:10:00 Handle members with care
1:15:00 Saving by buying more… naaaaaah
1:18:00 apes together strong
1:20:00 two men go in! One man comes out!
1:23:00 Ben buying minis!
1:24:00 Thundercats!
1:26:00 Noice!
1:28:30 You fight like a cow!
I think I need coffee.
Hipe to be square Gerry👍😀
Happy Sunday.
Going to give some thought to my questions, I can think of a few already.
Excited to see what phase 3 brings.
So as an example of collecting rules – I sometimes find my games of Rangers of Shadowdeep can be a little too random, especially with my bad luck. Then I discovered Forbidden Psalm uses omen cards to be spent in each scenario once for a reroll, or automatically pass a test, or to cause max damage, etc. You get 6 different effects and each can be spent only once. These might be perfect for Rangers just to reign in my bad luck a little. Also both games use a D20.
Great show guy’s 👍
Phase 3, so are you renaming Beasts of War again? I have still not gotten used to the OnTableTop name. What will it be now? Otters of War? Beasts of the Tabletop? Beasts on the Tabletop? Tabletop of War? Apart from that I am interested to hear what phase 3 will bring and what it will promise and never happen…..
I do like different rule sets and adjusting the rules of a game to make it better. However the one thing I often run into is that when you play with some house rules all the time with your friends and you play the game with someone else, those house rules you’re used to you might forget they aren’t part of the actual game. Another thing is that the less popular games are not well known by people and it is harder to find other people to play with outside of your own circle which you can more easily make them give a new game a go.
On that same subject the fantasy army, the Order of Heimdallr, I had been building years ago and am expanding now is an army that can be used for various games. So far I have used it as Great Kingdoms for SAGA: Age of Magic and Bretonnia for Warhammer Age of Sigmar when that was still possible…… I am now expanding the army for a full army plus extras for Kings of War. It will still be usable for SAGA: Age of Magic, Warhammer Fantasy Battles or Warhammer Old World if people don’t mind me using the proper sized bases. It is a game agnostic fantasy army basically.
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Regarding that new found city in Mexico, the report said that there was also an ancient sports field. Maybe @warzan was an ancient Mayan Dreadball fan in his previous life and entertained the game in real life. Who knows, who can tell – but I believe it!
Is phase 3 Give the keys of River House to Justin and get the first flight to the South Pacific?
So my take away from this week’s XLBS:
Judging by the headwear, Gerry is now the Grand Master of the Medjai.
Warren wants to have a big get together where he will take all members in hand and play with them.
Despite all odds, our heroic Ben has still managed to hold on to his sanity (for another week at least).
Happy Sunday /Monday as i am just watching this on Monday….i would like to see a feature about rule-sets on the XLBS would be very interesting to get an insight from you guys about different rule sets. I do myself do purchase different rule-sets for the periods i am interested in.
Wow, thanks for the Golden Button! I was finishing up the Landing Party miniatures while watching the show, I should have them posted in the Project system soon.
I like the idea of exploring more rules sets and/or finding the right rules for the game you want to play. Just as an example, I love Judge Dredd but don’t really care for the Warlord game, so I’m toying with the idea of using Core Space as a base for having Judges wander around looking for crooks to bust.
For the past few years I’ve been on a search for a good set of “generic” rules that have a workable system for creating character profiles from scratch — it’s surprising how difficult that is to find. Most games either: only provide stats for their models; give you tons of profiles but are imprecise about how to create your own; or they’re limited to a specific genre or time period. But I’m coming around to the idea that one-size-fits-all rules aren’t the way to go, you need something that’s tailored to the setting and genre you want to play in.
Right finally got caught up, Ben you have inspired me to take a look at all the rule books I have that I have never played, Thinking I might start a new project based on one of them, so, for instance, do I have all the bits of terrain, minis etc to play Rangers of Shadow Deep given that I have the very nice book already.
Great show guys!