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Cult Of Games XLBS: What Makes A Good Gaming Starter Set?
April 10, 2022 by johnlyons
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Happy Sunday
A great starter set would be buying rules and as part of the price get 2 starter factions of your choice for the price of a starter set. For example if GW did a starter ‘deal’ where you bought a ‘Starter set’ where you got rules, ruler (Measuring whippy stick), dice and a choice of 2 out of 12 (or whatever number of factions they have) for the price of their boxed starter sets.
I think there are a lot of companies out there that will sell you discounted battle packs if you buy the rules
That’s my preference as well. However, a KS’ed horror card game tried this and, unfortunately, ran into inventory problems (eg. core components went OOP, but factions were available). This wouldn’t be a problem with larger companies like GW and FFG, of course, and maybe core rules should be designed so that they can also be downloaded online (like many RPG’s do). Mantic has a short rules book included with each starter army, and core book and templates sold separately, but should bundle it (especially from their online store), if they’re not doing something like that already. CMG’s and CCG’s were even worse, requiring new players to buy a random or semi-random pack of cards. No wonder the collectible games markets collapsed.
I’ll stick with Song of Blades and Heroes! Not only do I not have to buy more miniatures, but they have a warband generator where you can make your own stat block for any generic fantasy miniature in your collection! (:
It’s the XLBS Show…………Happy Sunday Fellow CoGs!
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The best starter sets IMHO is based on value for your money, interesting minis or playing pieces, and presentation to hook me into the game and get me to buy more!
A good two player starter set has at least the minimum sized force for both sides included… so you don’t have to buy a second box to make it worthwhile.
It should have enough dice that you don’t have to roll twice and a full set of rules.
forces should either be pre-built or come with dummy proof instructions for assembly.
Why ?
’cause not everyone has experience assembling minis and they might not quite understand the order of assembly from a single image (or worse : a wall of text … ). Parts on sprues should be easy to identify.
If there’s multiple options then the instructions should explain which ones are essential for the included tutorial/quickstart. I’d be tempted to argue against single option models, because the starterset has to show what may be the average complexity.
Ideally it should include glue and tools required to do so, but lacking that it should be available in the same shop that sells them.
At 29:29 mins – I would say that the purest of traitors are the Word Bearers, may they all be crushed under a giant demon butt.
Happy Sunday!
Enough to let you get a true sense of what the game is about with models/lists that can be added to easily to expand lists or pools as you delve deeper into the game.
2 player sets should be easily splittable, for example not mixed sprues with lower quality models.
Core rules in smaller A5 format are a great bonus, fuller A4 rule books with unit info, fluff etc should be a sensible next buy with the small rulebook your travelling take away.
Funnily enough, when I watched the Battlefront unboxing of the two Warsaw Pact starters I did think of John.
Adding to my comments above – variety, either two different playstyle factions or a decent mix of unit types (infantry, cavalry/tanks & artillery) that shows off more of the game mechanics is great. Getting to grips with the game itself is one think, but helping to understand what kind of list works for you is also great.
A great show guys, on the topic of the best starter sets, I think the Flames of War was was incredible, followed closely by the Infinity ones.
John, you skipped out on tanks?! Welll then, life is rather odd for the moment. In that case, should there be a Challenge of Pink? I would think that the community at large would be keen for a laugh.
As far as a starter set Saga would be easy enough for the starter set. It’d only be a question of what miniatures to have in the box. Seeing as it is a minis agnostic system would that allow for deals with multiple companies to cross pollinate for various sculpt styles? That might be a distraction from set motif though, eventhough it could bolster exposure. *shrug* Just my thought.
Old games, established communities. Should they make a starter file? Like a Facebook group on a long standing game, have a starter pack file so that newbies can access it better?
I’m only speculating on this as I’m having a devil of a time getting new pals into certain old games. Some games are supremely accessible, irrespective of its age. I’m thinking frostgrave, dungeon saga, gaslands etc and they are so fun.
My love for warhammer 6th is harder to pass on. And that’s not taking into account the old mechanics, people look and have their mind blown at the density and depth of the game!
Happy Sunday!
@johnlyons make an Alpha Strike How to play. I’d love to see you play BTech and Alpha Strike!
I’ll add it to the list of things I’d like to do 🙂
Great!…
Are we there, yet? 😉
Starter sets are simple for me. You need to be able to give it to someone on Christmas Day and for them to be playing the game without having to go shopping for any more stuff. If it’s not that don’t call it a starter set!
Ideally:
Two forces in different coloured plastic
Full rule book and a quick start guide if full rules are complex
Half a dozen missions/scenarios or a linked campaign – introducing the rules through the campaign
All templates, tokens and dice needed to play the starter forces
Cardboard terrain if terrain is needed.
A “where to go next” booklet.
From memory the only starter sets I’ve bought were old Grenadier Fantasy Warriors starter set and an Irregular miniatures 2mm ancients starter sets. Both of these included the full rules which I think is essential. Personally I think rules should be basic game at the front of the book then additional rule if you want to use them and army lists in the rest of the book
More importantly though. Where is Pascal?
Dead. Chewed through the router
Pascal 2.0 incoming?
Ooh.
Did I blank out or did the team pass completely by Corvus Belli’s quite wonderful 2-player Operation:????? boxes and faction Action Packs for Code: One and Infinity?
On my part. Infinity always intimidated me. But the more I hear about code:One the more I’m thinking I should just shrug off my intimidation.
I get that. Infinity can be a daunting prospect, something not always helped by CB’s updated but credit where credit is due, they have been improving on that score. If nothing else though the minis are absolutely lovely and a treat to paint. I do probably need to have a mess around with the card terrain they put in the Operation sets though, see how the thicker cardstock used for the more recent sets looks alongside Battle Systems (of which I have equally daft amounts to punch out)
don’t own any, never seen any, never played it. So I can’t comment if it’s shite or not. I only commented on things I have experience with.
I’ve heard they’re not bad but since they’ve not sent any despite telling me several times that they were I’m going to assume that they’re shite in some way 🙂
Only really in so much as their minis are resolutely metal (with that sinocast stuff now for any new larger models), which can make them a bit less new player friendly…
but then I love metal so it must be something else that’s wank about them ^^
Half the page count being in Spanish?
The anime-flavored aesthetic?
The use of Imperial in one language and Metric in the other?
I was very surprised and found the starter sets of infinity code one very good and the operation crimson stone even better than operation Kaldstrom. You get two groups of 7 models and the maximum you can field in code one is 10, if you take the beyond box you already get to the 10 model limit. You get all the tools you need (dice, tokens, scenery) and a how to play booklet with 5 missions that gradually add more of the rules. The only thing that is missing is the full rules but they added a link to where you can download them for free. In the Crimson Stone box you get more diverse troopers than in Kaldstrom, like hackers and paratroopers to give more diversity. The other thing is that they also give you nice options for adding extra models sets to expand on the 2-player starter set released in monthly updates giving you the time to go through it easily.
Yeah, I do like how Corvus Belli have used Code One to better refine the release model so you get the Dire Foes/Beyond/Remotes/Support/TAG/Alpha/Beta pattern. Interesting to see how they’ve modified that to fit the revamped Morats and Fire Team rules and how that may impact subsequent releases for other factions…
Speaking as someone who used to write/edit training manuals as part of his job, I feel that whatever you put in your starter box should:
(a) Be written from the viewpoint of a “total novice” – don’t assume ANY pertinent/useful piece of info will be known by the potential buyer – Gerry’s point on glue is a great example, as is Free’s point on Malifaux lore. It’s very easy to forget to include details just because you are so used to them that they are second nature to you, but you’re not the potential buyer.
(b) Include a proper, detailed index. A Table of Contents is not enough. Also, add a separate (or downloadable) Quick Reference Sheet for use at the table.
(c) If you know that the players will want to buy/add additional stuff to take the game to the next level or blossom out into a campaign, etc. give them a clear path (and reason) to do just that. Don’t just throw links to/photos of new and shiny stuff, explain to them just WHY they may (or may not) want to go after said shinies. Making someone shell out £30+ for some new book/expansion and then have it change the game to such an extent that it’s no longer the game they just played may very well hack them off. Informed players make loyal payers.
100% this.
But for whatever reason, every game/company seems to run with their own approach.
Battlefront do a great pamphlet within their boxes that are good for a novice or new hobbyist.
Warlord supply a great quick reference sheet
But both fall over a bit when it comes to “where next?” As they both treat that more as an advertisement for something that’s not exactly going to continue a good/fair experience of the game.
Battlefronts Midwar starter force boxes advertise Mid war monster tanks/vehicles (which I tell them off for doing in my unboxings)
And Warlord, for bolt action seem to think that every german player should go grab a Tiger. As if a new player wouldn;t already WANT or buy a Tiger as a matter of principle :P.
Happy Sunday! Cheers for the Golden Button! I have two cats so all my minis contain at least some hair 🙂
Recently the best starter sets I’ve picked up have been Hit the Beach, plenty of stuff in the box to keep you going for awhile and to top if off good for money. SPQR was another jam packed starter set and whilst the rules weren’t great you certainly got Value for your bucks. Team Yankee was another reasonably good set though I agree with regarding the lack of infantry.
Now that GW starter set are up into the £100 range I don’t think they’re great value, as you generally need to upgrade fairly quickly, you’ll need an additional army book. I think for a starter set that’s essentially aimed at youngsters it’s a bit steep cost wise considering you’ll quickly need to add more models to your army or buy two starter sets, unless you can swap one of the armies in the box with a
friend.
A starter set should be enough for you to get to grips with the rules before adding any additional units.
Happy Sunday. Some really great golden button winners there.
I prefer to have starter sets come with the compete rules and with enough miniatures to be able to play a few games to at least get the feel of it. I don’t mind if you then have to go out and get more minis for a “proper game” to complete the forces. (Which is why I’m pretty happy with what’s listen in the starter Sláine set and the SPQR set).
Ooh it’s the XLBS SHOW.
Are you sure you didn’t go to a robot chicken site @avernos ?
Have you guy’s seen the sign practically made for John. https://discord.com/channels/633595029792882688/809830091059494958/962680179879182416
Do you prefer the German bucky Gerry ?
It tastes like licorice.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1V9_6bQWTh8
P.S. I hate licorice.
I actually lost every round of the dead mans hand game but Gerry said I won. So it is now cannon that I won. Anyone can a win a game by winning 3 rounds. I won a game by losing 3 rounds. #proskills
They will never do one, but if there were to be ‘Frostgrave in a box’ I think you’d need
A. Full frostgrave book.
B. FG wizards sprues (male and female).
C. FG men at arms sprue.
D. FG soldiers sprues (male and female).
E. Oathmark skeletons sprue.
F. FG Gnolls sprue.
G. Renedra ruins or card stock walls. Lots of ruined walls that could be put together as small buildings.
F. Leaflet with an expired flyer to ‘Mccullough World’.
I think you would lose all the lore and a lot of the charm if you didn’t have the full book.
That would give you a ton of options for two warbands, a decent start on some monsters, and a decent start on some terrain. If the base of the box could be turned into a plinth or plateau, happy days.
Happy Sunday… it is Sunday isn’t it?
03:00 dead people?
04:00 I think you told me off camera… the horrible green chicken…
06:45 BEER!
10:00 John lost for words?
19:30 Tabled at turn 5…. XD
21:30 This is Bens “when I was young section” 😉
24:15 “forcing Justin…. ” poor lad
27:15 Templates are great! Vehicle rules are great! At least in SW:L 😉
30:00 John is a traitor!!!! Noice!
34:00 Gerry painting Space Marines… weird picture in my head
38:00 Golden buttons!
42:00 BatRep!
44:15 Saaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaagaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
50:00 Poor crispin…
53:30 What will happen when Ben is off… NOTHING! XD
54:00 What’s in the box vs What should be in the box?
1:09:00 Best way to do starter sets is Battletech even though they do a horrible job at explaining. 20$ box as a taster, 50$ box for a complete game and many optional books and rules.
1:26:00 Flatpack of forests? oO
1:30:00 Freebooters Fate does it in a very special way: you select your army starter box and get the cards and rule box extra in a deal. (Or you get a “friendship deal” with two army starter boxes, a set of cards and a rule book.) “Build your own starter box” basically. like that idea very much.
Thanks for the show, now back to my waffles.
Yeah, CGL’s approach with Battletech does seem to be paying off, although it would be nice if they would stop changing cover art when a book gets re-printed – it’s at the point where you could have multiple players with copies of (for example) the Battlemech Manual, all published in the last few years and the exact same content, but with different cover art. Same for the Alphastrike: Commanders Edition book…..
Or at least get the title like “Alphastrike (limited edt)” so that people would get a hint of “you may already own this”
? Lloyd’s just moved he’ll be rearranging the house the way he wants everything an decorating ?
A brill show guy’s.
Hit the beach was a stellar starter set.
You’ve not visited Stockholm’s Murder Quarter? I hear it’s lovely in spring.
Happy Sunday…..
Carnevale does starters well.
They have a cheap little set called Escape from San Canciano which has two sets of four models, card tiles to cover a 2×2 board and card buildings, a cut down rulebook with the full rules, a little fluffand a few scenarios, duce and card templates.
Then you have the larger 2 player starter with two full sized crews that don’t repeat anything from the other set, the full sized rulebook with more fluff/art and scenarios and enough card tiles/buildings to make a 3×3 board.
You have everything you need to play away and can just add more minis, new crews or upgrade the terrain. There are three card decks that are quality of life content to reduce the need to look at the book mid game but they are entirely optional.
I’m thinking only having a small number of figures in a starter box is actually a good thing (as per Slaine, or Dead Man’s Hand), particularly if they are plastic on sprues.
I’m remembering my younger days (from centuries ago) and patience wasn’t really a thing. The quicker to get the game on the table, the more likely it’ll get played I reckon. Nothing’s more offputting than opening the box and realising it’ll take you months of work to get the game to a playable state.
Great show folks,
I’d like something that I have coined a “splitter set”
I will often split the purchase of a new game with another interested party.
The problem with this is that a starter set often only contains one set of rules, scenery, tokens, dice etc…
A splitter set would basically contain 2 different forces and 2 of everything else.
Marvel Crisis Protocol offers a great starter with enough miniatures to play the game (although not a full two roster), two solid seeds for affiliation rosters (Cabal and Avengers), well documented starter rules, tokens and a good selection of terrain that will allow players to experience using terrain as both cover and projectiles. This is by far the best stater I have seen in years.