Flames Of War FTW: German Advanced Assault Tactics
August 7, 2015 by warzan
Warren and Dave are having a look at some of the ways you can get the most out of your troops when they assault in Flames of War.
With your Germans on the battlefield should they be riding ahead in Half-tracks or jumping on the back of a tank?
Watch The XLBS Show
In the Backstage version of the show the guys delve into some more of the advanced tactics for the British in Flames of War.
How do you get your soldiers into battle?
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Good to see some more FoW stuff.
Especially on Mounted Assault, one of the trickiest German national rules to use well.
Even being able to assault the enemy with your halftrack-mounted troops is pretty nice (other countries didn’t do that stuff back then) but it’s not always the best option, especially with AT assets hanging around.
Personally, I feel infantry mounted like this is best used to attack from a weak flank, like in one of the earlier videos this season. It also allows you to exploit gaps in the enemy lines and jump on some exposed support platoons.
And then we have tank riders, one of the things turning tanks from solid assault units to monsters against infantry. There are a couple of errors in this bit, though.
I do believe you got the hull MG bit wrong; it would still only get one shot, as it is fired along with the main gun. The only benefit the Begleit riders give there is that you can fire the Hull MG at all while also firing the Hull-Mounted main gun. You can’t normally do that since the main gun’s loader would have to fire the MG.
Also, Tank Escorts only ever fire at RoF 1, regardless of the RoF their weapons would normally have.
Another issue: you can’t assault if you stood still and shot at full RoF that turn; you need to fire on the move to be able to assault.
“[Half-tracks] count as infantry when they assault.” This isn’t how this works. Ruleswise, Half-tracks with Mounted Assault count as Tanks while they have troops on board, which allows them to assault (Transports can’t assault). Like anything classified as a tank with Top armour 0 (like scout cars, universal carriers et cetera) they can be driven off in defensive fire by 2 effective hits (like fully-armoured tanks) and/or 5 hits of any kind (like infantry).
Still, this video does show the core of how these rules work quite well.
One more thing you didn’t mention is that if a German half-track with Mounted Assault has two or more teams as passengers, they count as having Tank Riders as well, which is pretty nasty.
Of course you are right on most of the points (again) and it is awesome you always do the work and post these (so I don’t have to :D). Seriously stuff like this, is what makes this community so awesome. Always being on the lookout to improve stuff, but still being polite and nice about it. I love you for this.
But again one has to imagine, when I wrote this stuff, I had my rulebooks all around me, took the time to get it right, but then we had to cross like a few hundred kilometers via the interwebs and a language barrier to get all of this across to Warren and Dave. And they had to interpret all the nonesense I’ve written up. And don’t forget a lot of this stuff is so deep in the special rules and really specialised troops, I’ve seen players – who use them regularly – get the rules wrong even after years. And they have to wrap their minds around all of these combinations, for all the different armies (not only the ones they are playing and might be used to) in about a week of filming.
So a huge thumbs-up from me for Dave, Warren, that Finish-Tie, marqod and all the community members, who put up with a few rule misshaps and still looking towards what it all is about and creating one of the best (if not the best) Flames of War video series IN THE ENITRE WORLD. Thanks!
(And no I’m not trying to congratulate myself, I’m just a tiny little gear in a huge machine, who enjoys this show, BoW, FoW and all the things a lot of you have written to me)
Yeah, while I might seem rather negative with these lists of errors, I still love that this series is being made. I know firsthand that some of these rules can be tricky to explain, especially when they’re ones that you don’t regularly use yourself.
I still regularly grab my rulebook during games of FoW myself; especially assaults, consolidation and capturing enemy teams.
All in all, you guys are doing a pretty good job with the time and resources available for this.
I’m looking forward to seeing more of this.
Also you really need to at least discuss bogging checks for going over the hedges and the fact that this would slow the movement rate of the half tracks to just 4″. I know its examples of use in game that your showing but you really should mention these factors so that new players are aware of those rules and the effect it would have on setting up your assault….
But clearly we put a lot of hedges on our boards so we don’t count them as needing bogging checks.
Around here we love getting lots of terrain features on the boards to make them look cool, and we’re happy to lighten up on the rules accordingly so as not to ‘bogg’ the game down 😉
I like a terrain heavy board myself, been off making lots of hedges very recently for my flames board. Thanks for the hobby labs on that subject too. I really like FOW FTW and have really enjoyed the various scenarios and tactics you’ve cover through all 3 seasons now FTW is partly what got me into he game so cheers cause I love my flames. I just feel that at least a mention of how terrain could effect the tactics you discuss would be useful to someone coming fresh into the system. I totally understand why you don’t get caught up in those rules wouldn’t make for too much of a dynamic series lots of bogged half tracks or tanks just in that particular scenario how the movement over the terrain effects the vehicles could have made a difference, eg the infantry platoon could have hopped over the hedge behind them making the half tracks have to assault over the hedges. Once again I do really enjoy the series am off to watch the XLBS episode now
If you don’t want to roll bogging checks on camera then use fences, fences are just slow going so don’t require a bogging check but would slow movement again to 4″ for half tracks and 8″ for tank’s. Movement rates are important parts of the game and can be a leveller for an infantry player as the foot sloggers wander thru with no movement penalty at all….and no risk of getting stuck along the way…
Augh! Dr. Dave finally got a really great roll but had to walk it back because it literally “broke” the episode. 🙂
Aren’t tank riders on tanks extremely vulnerable to enemy small arms and especially fragmentation from HE fire? A whole squad is piled up high, with no cover, over the ground, and clumped together? Sure, they’re really effective once they reach (read: IF they reach) the target. But until then, well . . . there’s a reason it was the RUSSIANS who invented this tactic. 🙂
Tank riders in FoW is an approximation of dedicated group of infantry acting in close cooperation with the tank(s). While they are lumped together for game design reasons they are meant to be advancing behind the vehicle when shooting starts.
*make that tank escorts, since that is the specific name of the rule.
Gotcha. That makes a lot more sense. There are literal Russian “tankoviy descant” -style tank riders in PanzerBlitz / Leader, but you have to be really careful when using them, unless you don’t mind taking Soviet-scale losses.
You can have normal infantry ride on the backs of tanks in FoW as well, as a simple manner of transport.
It leaves them incredibly vulnerable, as each hit on a tank (with any weapon) also causes a hit on each team carried as a passenger.
Those passengers only get a 5+ save instead of their usual 3+ as well, although a few units get special rules still giving them the 3+ save.
No bulletproof cover either.
This means that moving your normal infantry on the back of your tanks should not be done where the enemy can get to them. It can help if you need to reposition troops now in a safe area, though.
Very interesting tactics.
Some constructive criticism on my part –
The table
Looks awesome but there is plainly to much stuff going on, especially during these more explanatory videos. For a battle thumbs up though, looks awesome. And as above mentioned regardind hedges/bocage, less is more regarding instructions of the basics in my opinion as a teacher. Yourselfs create an atmospher intreguing enougth.
Miniatures
Use painted/based minis, specialy when you have an awesome looking table.
Rules
Well, I know am well aware that getting a hold on how a game works can often take quite a few games if not dussins. But when its an instructional video and not a more casual AAR this shouldnt just happen guys, Proofwatch? 😀
FoW FTW
Harsh but true, this looks like a rehearsel that was filmed, where is the lreal show xD No but honestly, it doenst look good with the paper on whats happening next with the producers notes.. It looks awefúll for me. I definetly prefer when you improvise (as I believe you have done in the past) I dont mean you should improvise the whole thing but this FoW series, including the XLBS feel badly orchestrated if you get my saying. I dont know what you did filming this but somethng doesent taste right. You are usually awesome this 😀
THe Show
On the positive I do like this aproach of zooming on specific situations and rules, aswell as units on the DZC series. Please do evolve the concept and use for more games, as I have seen you are allready doing! ^^
Also, please get in a few long AAR from each game to sort of go full circle, keeping more casual and fun. Looking forward the weekenders in a few hours 😀
Sorry for being a bit negativ but its meant as to be constructive. Please excuse my english btw, I hope you understand what I´m aiming at 😉 Cheers!
Well, I thought you did a good job and thank you for another installment of FOW/FTW. I do have to agree with marqod though on the rules notes. There are lots of situations not covered in the episode but it’s a good one for folks that haven’t done anything but use the Open Fire rules. I find that most players tend to forget their army rules or some of the finer points on general rules, which many times costs them the game. I play Germans, Americans, and Finns all of which have a different feel due to their army specific rules.
With that tie I thought you might be telegraphing an episode where you highlight the Finns… talk about some cool special rules (motti ambush and so on).
Good episode lads. Will you be doing any more full bat reps?