Reply To: Continued Explorations of Normandy Wargaming

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@jamesevans140 –

No worries at all on the explosion graphics, smoke, etc.  Super fast, super easy, and anything that helps more people game is a win-win.

I am a little amused at the moment that hexes are appearing on my table and now soon computer graphic will be on it as well.

What else can I say …

 

What I liked about the opening of this PL game is that it demonstrated just how easily things could have gone for the British and Canadians.

Yeah, when @amphibiousmonster played his Canadians in the Juno Beach monster PL game in 2015, he had a few rough spots like this as well.  Not quite as bad, but definitely a nasty day at the beach.

[DD tanks at Omaha] So it loses blame and just becomes sad with the terrible choices that had to be made on the spot.

Yeah, material I’m reading now has the “blame” more on the battalion and regimental commanders, who ignored the warnings of the Navy officers on those drop ships … who wanted to release the tanks much closer to the shore.  When looking at sea conditions and nautical factors, why listen to the Navy, right?

Scottish DD tank commander.

I did not  hear about that one.  Great!

They cost about an average weeks wages back then at $89 a pop.

That was the price of the game in those days?  That is really expensive.  A box set  of Panzer Leader cost you $10 at the time.

It was vital this game we got to known the beach sectors well, Easy, Red, etc.

Yeah, the beaches are set up by letters of the alphabet (Charlie, Dog, Easy, Fox for Omaha – Item, Jig, King for Gold, etc).  And then in each beach (you certainly know this, but for others reading) these are subdivided into a Green (west) and Red (east) sector, sometimes with a “White” for a center section, depending on width of the assault sector and planned troop densities.

One thing I find interesting is how forgotten these bloody beaches would have been if the A-bomb had not come along and the “X-Day” (not D-Day) invasions of Japan had been forced (Operation Coronet, October 1945 – Kyushu, followed by Operation Olympic, March 1946, Honshu).  Those beaches were named for American car manufacturers, there would be no Saving Private Ryan movie at “Dog Green” – But “Oldsmobile Red,” “Buick Green,” and “Cadillac White,” etc.

Quality of German troops at the beachheads:  So what I’m finding is that there is only one fully German, 1st-line division at Normandy, mostly at Omaha, with one regiment set up with a wing covering part of Gold.  This is the 352nd, of course.  After that you have units like the 709th at Utah, 711th at Juno and Sword, and 716th also at Omaha.    These were “static” infantry divisions, usually with at least one “Ost” battalion of Belarussians or Ukrainians, also included ethic-German Poles or contingents from Baltic states.  One photo has troops that were clearly former Red Army POWs that look straight up Chinese (I’m assuming Mongolian heritage?)

One of these Ost battalions was actually in action on that first day, the 441st, part of the 716th Infantry, with units at both Gold and Juno, I think.

The battalions of II. Regiment / 716th Static Infantry at Omaha Beach, however, had basically been “taken over” by 352nd, who were now responsible for training and equipment.  So yes, there ARE 716th “static” infantry units at Omaha.  They are NOT “Ost” battalion conscripts.  They ARE “improved” by being added to the 352nd.  However, they are still not full-scale first-line troops like the other regiments of the formal 352nd.  Just the details and nuances I’ve been sunk into while building the Omaha Beach mega game.  I honestly thought EVERYONE there was 352nd, and TECHNICALLY, they were.  Just not ORIGINALLY 352nd.

German organizations are always so much fun.

American refusals to use funnies: Yeah, this is a thing.  🙁  The Americans had a bad habit through most of World War II about just not listening to the British.  Of course it went both ways, but the American attitude was often along the lines of “if you know what you were talking about, you would’ve handled this mess already and we wouldn’t even BE here … AGAIN.”

There is merit to that outlook … but not on a battlefield.  And this went all the way back to Sidi Bou Zid / Sbietla / Kasserine Pass.

Even when the Americans came up with “funnies” of their own later in Normandy, I’m talking about the Sherman hedgerow cutters, that had to come from an American T5 sergeant who literally grabbed some I-Beam scrap and welded that shit to the front of a tank.  Sometimes the War Department  just didn’t seem to care about the equipment with which they were sending our people into combat.

M4 Shermans with Wading Kits:  To the Americans’ credit, these actually did work better than the DDs that day, at least on the American beaches.

Soviet “eras” and tanks:  There ARE subtle differences, but not usually the kind that get picked up on a gaming table.

• The T-34a/b that was out in 1941 had the shorter-barrelled 76.2mm main gun, replaced by the T-34/c with the full-length gun.
• The T-34/85 comes out at the end of 1943 / beginning of 1944.
• There are also variants of the T-34/c (76) – mostly the shape of the turret and layout of the loader and commander’s hatches.  The classic “Kursk” variant is definitely the 1943 model with the very hexagonal turret, the 1941/42 variants have the much more “teardrop” shaped turret.
• Assault guns / tank destroyers are big clue.  SU-76 in 1942 / early 1943.  SU-85s in August 1943.  SU-152s in 1943, ISU-152s in 1944.
• KV1s also have the shorter guns in 41, longer 76.2 guns in later 41/42.  There’s also uparmored variants, and that stupid pistol port drops off the back of the turret eventually.
• There are also big BIG differences in organization, what goes into a tank brigade, when the Soviet tank division goes extinct, when the guards brigades start showing up, followed by guards divisions, corps, and finally armies.
• In infantry games there is the progression from the Mosin-Nagant bolt action rifles to the the PPsH-41, the 43, the 44, etc.

So yeah, there really IS a progression you can really bake into a Soviet WW2 force.  Most players just prefer to keep them as a “faceless red mass,” though, which is a friggin’ crime if you ask me.

To me you do seem happiest when bent over a map and the counters are at platoon level.

You know me well.

Then you maintain a friendship with guys like me on the other side of the world who’s day it’s almost your night.

Hey, we run games with @elessar2590 in Queensland.  If you ever want to try a web game on a weekend, at least with Panzer Leader, just let me know.  😀

Life before the internet, did it really exist??? 

Ha!  I remember when people used to write letters to  the editors of Avalon Hill’s The General magazine.  People would play the original 12 scenarios included in the first release of PanzerBlitz and write letters saying:

“Hold on, I’ve played all 12 scenarios and there are still counters and units I haven’t used.  What gives?”

Dude, that’s because we want you to create your OWN SCENARIOS and gave you the pieces to do it!  Hey, in 1971 that was a new idea.