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This topic contains 14 replies, has 10 voices, and was last updated by  pagan8th 1 month, 1 week ago.

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  • #1575857

    elysium64
    4180xp
    Cult of Games Member

    Having spent several days painting a miniature, when varnishing the back came out fine but the front came out really cloudy, if I respray the model clears but as it drys goes cloudy again, I am so pissed off, I was so pleased with the figure and now it is ruined.

    Can anyone offer any advice.

     

    20201020_011114

    You can see the cloudiness in her face, and the white spots on the armour.

    20201020_010034

    As you can see the back us fine.

     

    • This topic was modified 1 month, 1 week ago by  elysium64.
    • This topic was modified 1 month, 1 week ago by  elysium64.
    #1575860

    elysium64
    4180xp
    Cult of Games Member

     

    20201020_011114

    Photo would not load when I edited so trying again.

    Now its loaded don’t know what is going on my night has turned against me.

    • This reply was modified 1 month, 1 week ago by  elysium64.
    #1575879

    sundancer
    26436xp
    Cult of Games Member

    How long did you leave the mini to dry before varnish? I found that not leaving them to dry it usually leads to some “gasing” that makes this effect

    #1575882

    elysium64
    4180xp
    Cult of Games Member

    The mini was definitely dry.

    I am now wondering what is the best thing to strip paint off resin, I think this is beyond repair. So need to strip and repaint quickly before it ends up in the pile of shame.

    #1575883

    simons
    171xp
    Cult of Games Member

    I have had this issue before. A friend told me to wipe a little olive oil on. Not trued it yet, so buyer beware!

    #1575893

    danlee
    14326xp
    Cult of Games Member

    I have found painting the affected area with GW’s lahmian medium can also reduce the effects of clouding.

    #1575917

    avernos
    Keymaster
    20575xp

    either paint it with brush on gloss varnish or olive oil, either will work.

    Clean up with olive oil is more annoying.

    Leave at least 24 hours after that before rematting.

    Frosty matt is the reason I no longer use aerosol spray on varnish it’s too prone to it

    #1575934

    darkvernon
    Participant
    1193xp

    That (the cloudiness and the white spot) has to do with the dryness/dampness of the place where you applied the varnish. Some canisters react badly with the level of dampness of the air. And if your can was a tiny bit further than usual when spraying, the worse it got.
    I don’t know any way out of this for the figure you sprayed. My only advice in this case (which clearly might not be the best, nor the most satisfying, nor the nicest to hear…) is to try and strip the figure and start the painting all over again [here, in France, we have a product which is perfect for that : Glanzer. I think an equivalent in English-speaking countries is Simple Green, but I’m not sure. It’s a household chemical you use to strip the polish off the floors before cleaning them. You dip your figure in it for a few hours (no more or, if it’s plastic or resin, it will turn all floppy soft!), and then you scrap the paint with an old toothbrush, you wash it with clear water, then you dry it with some paper tissue, and your figure is as good as new…]. I’ve heard the advice above about trying to apply some Lahman Medium on the spots and the haze to make them disappear, but I can’t vouch for it, I have never tried…

    What I can give you some advice on is how to avoid that the next time.
    Basically, you have two solutions. The first one is quite easy, though a bit time consuming : apply the varnish with a brush. I’m not a fan, but you’ll never get any white haze nor white spots with this method. Vallejo have some nice matt or gloss varnishes for this method.

    The other is even easier, but it might be a tad more expensive : forget any cans from hobby mades (AP, Citadel, etc.) : Talens varnish cans. It’s an art varnish to seal art paintings. It comes in a gloss finish (Talens) or in a mat finish (Amsterdam #115 is the one I always use… This a miracle). Let’s say you use the same as I do. You put your figure on some cardboard box, in the outside (a balcony is more than enough… It’s just that spraying inside is messy AND smelly). Be careful about the weather. If it’s raining, the air might be too damp. If it’s a hot summer day, the air might be too dry. Be mindful of the temperature, too. Too cold or too warm, and you run the risk of the air being too dry as well. Now, you want your can to be shaken thouroughly (about a minute and a half — yes, that is 90 seconds– is perfect. If you’re fit enough, two minutes is fine). Spray a little burst into the air to check if it’s not clogged, and then you can spray on the figures. You have to hold your can about a full foot away from the mini. If the air is dry, come closer, if the air is damp… well, try later… Spray in very little short controlled bursts, left to right, up and down. Then turn the cardboard to face another side of the figure until every sides of the figure are covered. You just need to apply a light coat all over the figure, not a thick layer…
    The disturbing thing with Amsterdam #115 is that at first, you will think you have ruined your figure, because the frehsly applied varnish looks like a glossy, damp layer of shiny water (the first time I applied the varnished, I thought my mini was fu##ked up, and I cursed the friend who had given me the advice to rot in Hell….).
    Don’t worry. Go fix yourself a cup of tea, and leave the varnish to dry…
    Give it a full five to ten hours straight. Then, and only then, can you touch your figure again, or apply another coat of varnish if you deem it necesssary.

    I’ve been using this for some five years now, and never, ever had a problem with my varnish, when I often had the same problem you had in the thirty-something years before. One time out of four, I had those white hazes and/or white spots on the figure…

    I hope this helped…

    #1575935

    darkvernon
    Participant
    1193xp

    That (the cloudiness and the white spot) has to do with the dryness/dampness of the place where you applied the varnish. Some canisters react badly with the level of dampness of the air. And if your can was a tiny bit further than usual when spraying, the worse it got.
    I don’t know any way out of this for the figure you sprayed. My only advice in this case (which clearly might not be the best, nor the most satisfying, nor the nicest to hear…) is to try and strip the figure and start the painting all over again [here, in France, we have a product which is perfect for that : Glanzer. I think an equivalent in English-speaking countries is Simple Green, but I’m not sure. It’s a household chemical you use to strip the polish off the floors before cleaning them. You dip your figure in it for a few hours (no more or, if it’s plastic or resin, it will turn all floppy soft!), and then you scrap the paint with an old toothbrush, you wash it with clear water, then you dry it with some paper tissue, and your figure is as good as new…]. I’ve heard the advice above about trying to apply some Lahman Medium on the spots and the haze to make them disappear, but I can’t vouch for it, I have never tried…

    What I can give you some advice on is how to avoid that the next time.
    Basically, you have two solutions. The first one is quite easy, though a bit time consuming : apply the varnish with a brush. I’m not a fan, but you’ll never get any white haze nor white spots with this method. Vallejo have some nice matt or gloss varnishes for this method.

    The other is even easier, but it might be a tad more expensive : forget any cans from hobby mades (AP, Citadel, etc.) : Talens varnish cans. It’s an art varnish to seal art paintings. It comes in a gloss finish (Talens) or in a mat finish (Amsterdam #115 is the one I always use… This a miracle). Let’s say you use the same as I do. You put your figure on some cardboard box, in the outside (a balcony is more than enough… It’s just that spraying inside is messy AND smelly). Be careful about the weather. If it’s raining, the air might be too damp. If it’s a hot summer day, the air might be too dry. Be mindful of the temperature, too. Too cold or too warm, and you run the risk of the air being too dry as well. Now, you want your can to be shaken thouroughly (about a minute and a half — yes, that is 90 seconds– is perfect. If you’re fit enough, two minutes is fine). Spray a little burst into the air to check if it’s not clogged, and then you can spray on the figures. You have to hold your can about a full foot away from the mini. If the air is dry, come closer, if the air is damp… well, try later… Spray in very little short controlled bursts, left to right, up and down. Then turn the cardboard to face another side of the figure until every sides of the figure are covered. You just need to apply a light coat all over the figure, not a thick layer…
    The disturbing thing with Amsterdam #115 is that at first, you will think you have ruined your figure, because the frehsly applied varnish looks like a glossy, damp layer of shiny water (the first time I applied the varnished, I thought my mini was fu##ked up, and I cursed the friend who had given me the advice to rot in Hell….).
    Don’t worry. Go fix yourself a cup of tea, and leave the varnish to dry…
    Give it a full five to ten hours straight. Then, and only then, can you touch your figure again, or apply another coat of varnish if you deem it necesssary.

    I’ve been using this for some five years now, and never, ever had a problem with my varnish, when I often had the same problem you had in the thirty-something years before. One time out of four, I had those white hazes and/or white spots on the figure… The big wildcat on my avatar picture was varnished with this method, if you need an example of the finished effect…

    I hope this helped…

    #1575952

    redvers
    13346xp
    Cult of Games Member

    I’ve experienced this before with spray varnish. As has been mentioned, it is to do with moisture in the air and air temperature. I tried brushing olive oil over the top although I was not convinced it made a big difference. I fixed my problem with a light brushed on coat of gloss varnish and, once dry, a brush on matt.

    I now only spray varnish terrain and buildings otherwise it’s always brush on varnish, mostly the Winsor and Newton artist varnishes.

    #1575960

    darkvoivod
    3549xp
    Cult of Games Member

    If you’re unable to save the paint job, I’ve found isopropanol cleans waterbased paint off of basically anything without damaging the actual mini itself.
    Hope it won’t be necessary, but even if it isn’t you should get some for future use: it’s magic.

    #1576026

    Yep, all the advice so far on looking at the relative moisture of the air is sound. I agree on the issue of rattle cans being finicky. The best jump I made was going to applying my sealant with an airbrush. Its not the panacea for everything but it has made a few issues go away. I think that the propellant in cans has something to do with it because there is a physical temperature difference from gas expansion. Frosting could be condensation residue like the beads of water on the outside of cold drinks on a hot day.

    Strip the figure and restart knowing you’re getting it right this time. Its painful to recall the many figures I’ve had to do just what you’re doing.

    #1576031

    pagan8th
    Participant
    3584xp

    I had some miniatures that went ‘frosty’ looking once with varnish. I think that was temperature related, too cold for the varnish, but it was winter in England.

    I think the solution was to re-varnish and leave it to dry in a warmer environment.

    #1576046

    elysium64
    4180xp
    Cult of Games Member

    Thanks for all the advice, I am currently stripping her to start repainting her this evening.

    #1576064

    pagan8th
    Participant
    3584xp

    Stripping her and then repainting her this evening!!!

    Are you sure you’re not talking about body paint and a close lady friend?

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