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Kickstarter fatique……

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This topic contains 23 replies, has 16 voices, and was last updated by  onlyonepinman 4 months, 1 week ago.

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  • #1226618

    phaidknott
    Participant
    1266xp

    Not sure if it’s just me, but these days the news (not just on BoW, but most other mini wargaming sites) is just swamped with news about this kickstarter or that.

    It’s not just if the Kickstarter is live (I can understand that bit of the news), but its about the next one before the last one has even finished from the same company (not naming any names). Is too much of a good thing bad?

    For me now, I’m not even looking at a new article that has the word Kickstarter in the title, I’m starting to unconsciously treat it as spam I suppose. Some of the “news” has been previously a bit weak on content (basically forming more of an advert than anything else). I know the usage of Kickstarter has long since left the “let’s get this new idea off the ground” to more of a “marketing/discount” form for most miniature wargaming products. But I’m not saying lets ban all news of kickstarters, but more lets us know when it’s relevant in timing (and leave front page space to when other none KS products are actually coming out). For example I don’t think that BoW even covered when Frostgraves latest supplement came out (or even that they were doing a launch discount bundle from NorthStar), I know it’s might not be the biggest of systems, but it was “news” to me that it had come out last month.

    For me, BoW is my “one stop” news sight for most things to do with the hobby, but these last few months it’s been a bit too focused on Kickstarters and leaving the rest of the news behind. Not a complaint, but hopefully a nudge to the team to remember what they used to do before to great success 🙂

     

     

     

    #1226633

    sundancer
    Participant
    3867xp

    I’m with you on the note that Kickstarter has become a form of “spam”. It feels like everybody and their grandchildren are doing one. Most are ok, some “a must have” and others are really WTF?! moments.

    Plus, just looking at miniature games for this, most of them need three digit numbers to get a physical copy of a game. And that is just a lot of cash. Plus pledges are only an investment, not a pre-order with guaranteed delivery.

    It’s gotten really bad at that point in time where established companies pitched their new hot game via Kickstarter instead of conventional advertising. I feel like companies how already have a brand name, value and mostly money on the bank shouldn’t use Kickstarter. Kickstarter was intended for those working in their garages and basements with nothing but passion and their personal savings. Those were meant to be funded and lifted to get of the ground.

    But since Kickstarter is an easy way to raise awareness and (sometimes a shitload of) money for a product, I can’t really blame anyone for using it. Plus if you’re morally on the weak side there are ways to just shut down a project after successful funding and run with the money. It’s an investment, not a pre-order. 😉

    In short: I stopped caring for most Kickstarters (even if all goes well, delivery can take years *cough*star citizen*cough*) and only if it’s really a personal must have, not to expensive and from someone who did Kickstarter successfully (and delivered in a reasonable time) I consider backing.

    It’s become the same thing pre-orders are for video games. A way to cash in before delivery. And I don’t like that very much. 🙂

    #1226652

    limburger
    Participant
    4483xp

    If it wasn’t Kickstarter it would have been something else.

    Fact is that there are a lot of companies out there that create stuff and want you to know about it.
    Especially in the gaming industry there are a ton of small scale companies that wouldn’t exist without the internet and sites like this.

    Traditional marketing used to work, because there were only a few who could afford it.
    Kickstarter sort of replaced that because a few really big successes happened as a result of that platform.
    Result ? Everyone is doing it … and we’re slowly getting back to a new status quo where the problem of launching products is getting difficult due to ‘fatigue’.

    From a business point of view the problem is that not announcing a new product is as bad as having ‘too many’.
    The former makes it appear that the company is ‘dead’ … and the latter causes fatigue as consumers get overloaded with news.

    btw : I think people overerestimate how ‘big’ the ‘big companies’ in gaming really are.

    Also keep in mind it is impossible for companies to wait until a product is finished before moving on to the next one, because then they’d have staff without work. That’s something no one can afford, unless they’ve got a lot of money to burn.

    #1226745

    emptynessisform
    Participant
    2132xp

    i think my feelings on this one have been well documented and i had a feeling i wasn’t alone.  I’ve spoke at length about this before and i’ll do so again when we cover the negatives of kickstarter on XLBS.  i personally think for all it has given us it’s ultimately taken our hobby to an unhealthy place in many respects and i think the fact that we are having these discussions meens there is change afoot.

     

    #1226760

    erion
    Participant
    621xp

    The only Kickstarter I’ve backed this year (so far) is for a new Atomic Robo Hardcover Collection.  I am all but done with hobby/gaming kickstarters, and I too am growing weary of seeing what seems like 17 kickstarter announcements every day on BoW.    Especially when, even though as a Backstager I have ads turned off, I still see a giant banner for whatever is currently being hawked (currently Solomon Kane) across the screen every time a page loads.

    #1226774

    warzan
    Keymaster
    13029xp

    We actually have quite a handy feature you can use to check for coverage on a game.

    If you click the games link at the top and then search for the game (in this case frostgrave) and then enter it’s ‘game hub’ you can see connected content to that game.

    The last article was this: https://www.beastsofwar.com/osprey-publishing/stunning-wizards-maze-malcor/

    Does it cover the release you mentioned @phaidknott?

    As to Kickstarter, as we have been discussing on XLBS it has effectively established itself as the no 1 marketplace for games globally. So I’m not sure exactly what the future holds for it. While I share many of the opinions above, when a large proportion of new releases are connected to that platform, its always going to be a tricky balance.

    Let me know if we missed something on the frostgrave as I’d be interested to know 🙂

    #1226791

    phaidknott
    Participant
    1266xp

    Yup, Warzan I’d seen that article (in the middle of May). But there was no news on the date it was released and the “launch” bundle offered when it did come out. On the KS front I think we might start to see the bubble start to burst due to the sheer amount offered these days and the KS fatigue that starting to kick in. As many have said some products offered by companies require a high amount to buy in AND are ONLY offered via KS (so the marketing is basically buy now, everything or you’ll miss out), and are not going to retail in any form (which doesn’t allow you to buy at a reasonable pace, and hurts your local games stores).

    On the Frostgrave front I think you missed out on “The Grimoire” https://ospreypublishing.com/frostgrave-the-grimoire released at the same time as the Maze of Malcor. It’s the new set of updated spell cards compiling all the spells from the main rulebook and all the supplements (I found it a useful buy anyway, as now you don’t need to try and find the spell in 5 different books).

    As a gamer I do feel a certain loyalty to my local store as it forms the hub where we meet and connect to play all these games. I’ve seen many KS games come and go (we seem to have a “fad” for about 3 months on the latest big KS, then the next one is delivered and we never see that old KS game again), yet the ones offered in store seem to have a regular playerbase (perhaps interest is driven by the steady stream of releases).

    But all the news these days on most mini wargaming sites (not just BoW) seems to be dominated by KS news, so much so that we see “news” about KS schemes that aren’t anywhere near going live (so is this news or marketing hype). BoW was always a good news site for all things sci-fi and fantasy (with a bit of historical thrown in). All I’m asking is that we hear about a KS when we can actually back it (or do something about it), rather than see other news not covered due to KS “adverts”.

    Yes, I know I’m being grumpy……it’s my age (and this heatwave don’t help), I’m oft to find a drink 🙁

     

     

    #1226795

    limburger
    Participant
    4483xp

    You’re getting news about kickstarters before they launch, because the ‘launch’ itself has lost its glamour/news worthyness due to the volume of launches. So the news moment shifts to x days before launch.

    It is in itself a proof of this fatigue …

    At the same time it is the same thing every industry has been doing since internet made it easier to spread news.
    We’ve gone from reading about stuff months after release in print … to reading about projects as they are barely an idea that a journalist discovers. All of this happened because the media need to get the maximum amount of hits as fast as possible. Classic companies could alleviate a lot of this pressure by enforcing NDA’s and embargos for product announcements/reviews, but such things don’t work when the reward (more views) is greater than any punishment available or possible.

    As for Kickstarter exclusives.
    Is it really that different to all those small run products that the garage shop companies in hobby gaming have been doing since the dawn of time ?
    Because unless you’ve got the likes of GW any production run is going to be pretty small and ‘limited’ (a lot of miniatures rules in the historical section can be considered this).

    GW itself has done a lot of those ‘exclusive’ production runs for games outside of their main product lines (Space Hulk being the most obvious one as well as lots of those models + ‘game’ combos).

    The real difference is the fact that Kickstarter has a much bigger presence and thus creates much more awareness of this.
    And as a result more companies have latched onto that business model.

    The internet and things like Kickstarter have allowed us more aware of how the sausages get made.

    #1226809

    phaidknott
    Participant
    1266xp

    Well I think we’re both getting away from the subject of “news” into the rights and wrongs of the KS (my fault I started it). On other Frostgrave news, Did you know there’s going to be a new box set of plastic soldiers (this time female), news out last May http://wargameterrain.blogspot.com/2018/05/breaking-northstar-miniatures-plastic.html

    And like some of the KS news not near launch yet (so not covered), however the KS news was?

    I’d just like to see BoW go back more towards what it did best, covering all things coming out, unboxings and lets plays (as they still do, but perhaps more so in the past). But it’s perhaps all linked in to the KS schemes “drive” the news. However it’s starting to stop being news, and more towards marketing these days. Don’t get me wrong, when Colin and Justin did their “Lets Play” for Core Space I was unware of the KS, and happily backed it in the Backerit phase. Perhaps because this was a “small” KS (not one of the dominating companies that use KS for the marketing), that it had passed under the radar of many gaming news sites (and thanks to BoW for covering it). But that news was well timed and we the readers/viewers could act on it (ie it became relevant at the time). When KS “news” is all about maintaining your company profile, that’s not news….that’s free advertising.

    Yet BoW has bills to pay, and adverts are one of the things that keeps BoW alive and us viewing, so perhaps I shouldn’t whinge too much 😀

     

     

     

    #1226818

    tankkommander
    Participant
    1221xp

    How about more news on Failed KS, the people behind them, how they go and change company name (or the company was shell for the main company) etc.

    KS has become a hype machine, and I am not really that interested in a one-off giant game with lots of miniatures and exclusives that will never be viable at retail and will be forgotten soon after it finally delivers.

    The Cult of the New is not healthy.

    #1226827

    osbad
    Participant
    1377xp

    The issue isn’t that BoW are focussing disproportionately on KS. The issue is that so much stuff comes out on KS as opposed to not on KS.  If they were to ignore KS they would ignore a vast proportion of the news.

    Personally I am getting fed up with all the whinges about KS.  Its here.  A large amount of new games get issued on it.  Live with it and move on.

    FLGS’s are irrelevant to many of us particularly in the uk where clubs and home gaming are far more relevant.  Which internet source we therefoe choose to buy our gaming crap from is just a pretty boring irrelevant detail.

    What matters for a news item is whether it is new and whether it is interesting.

    Whether I will have to buy it from KS or Wayland or Element or direct from the manufacturer is just logistics, not news.

    • This reply was modified 4 months, 2 weeks ago by  osbad.
    #1226844

    phaidknott
    Participant
    1266xp

    …perhaps if you read into the original post, you’ll see what I’m asking is “when” something is news or not. Again I’m not advocating an complete embargo on all news about all things KS. Rather that a balance needs to be struck, and that things seem to be driven too much by KS schemes (and the marketing), when “old” style news from companies that produce a steady stream of products are being missed.

    There’s only so much time (and front page space) for the team at BoW to do their thing. Perhaps as this discussion keeps arising then there IS a reason for it to do so? It’s not just BoW, but almost all the other mini news sites that offer a broad coverage of games that have had this happen to their news streams. News of a KS going live IS news, news of a KS 6 month to a year down the line is certainly a good topic here in the forums (but is it front page news, when there is so much other news to feature given the time and space constraints?).

     

    #1226850

    zeker1966
    Participant
    1054xp

    Right at the moment there are 9 (maybe 10) articles related to kickstarters in the side bar. That’s roughly one third of the articles. Is that too many? I don’t know but it seems about right as has been said kickstarter is playing a big role in the business now a days. Some of them are showing off models that are being finished, some are about kickstarters presently running, and a few are about future kickstarters in some fashion.

    I think if you have backed kickstarters and/or have followed some then it is a natural consequence that you will feel fatigued by kickstarter. I know I do. I’ve back quite a few and I’m still backing some. But what has changed for me is that in the past I would follow the kickstarter I’m backing with all the updates and read the comments section. Now I can’t be bothered. I back it and then I basically walk away now. I can’t help but follow it as they will send out updates but I don’t read the comment section anymore. I also find myself clicking on the “notify me 48 hours before the end” more often.

    So I think BoW has the coverage of kickstarter oriented news about right. I think they will miss news sometimes regardless of it being kickstarter related or not. It happens. I will agree that I didn’t know about the last frost grave release until their knickstarter was already over. I suspect that I just missed the news article about it though.

    #1226930

    limburger
    Participant
    4483xp

    BoW doesn’t even mention half the KS (or competing crowdfunding) related news there is out there.
    The weekly list of kickstarters (that isn’t active yet on the new site ?) barely scratched the surface.

    Even KS itself has trouble keeping up with the amount of products launching.

    No matter the subject it is always tricky for any website to find a good balance between product announcements, preorders, crowdfunding and retail releases/reviews.

    Also keep in mind that this ‘too much KS’ news is also psychological.
    You always notice something that is in your mind more often than something that isn’t.
    People (used to) complain about the amount of GW news … (call it ‘GW fatigue’ if you will ;-))

    Here’s a neat test for yourself :

    – focus your mind on any random car colour (example : blue)

    – notice how you’re suddenly seeing more blue cars on the road ?

    There aren’t … you’re simply more aware of them.

    #1226938

    darkvoivod
    Participant
    1143xp

    Yeah, I explained this to  my wife as “Birthday syndrome’. As I noticed as a child, whenever my birthday was coming up, everything on tv was about birthdays all of a sudden

    I kinda like the kickstarter coverage. I have only backed two, but have been able to get hold of some full pledges on BGG for Rise of the Kage and Dungeon saga. I do like gettin a hug box of mini’s…..

    I allso enjoy following the campaign, some because I really want a good idea to become succesfull, but admittingly some are run so badly I just can’t look away. We all have our guilty pleasures

    There are parts of the weekender I’m less of a fan of that return every once in a while. I just enjoy the rest of the show. We’re all hobbyist, but it’s a varied hobby.

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