KOW list advice wanted. Just try not to be sick in your mouth

[orinoco 5362xp 1]

I’m looking for advice on lists for an upcoming Kings of War Sylvan Kin project.  Aiming to make a 2300 point list and then break it down to 2000, 1500, 1000 and 500 points using the same models.  The plan is then to build and paint the  500 points list and increasing from there.  My initial 2300 point list is in the image above, is it missing chaff or completely unbalanced?

The Forest Shamblers, Tree Herder and Wiltfather are must includes for the larger lists for me.

Edit: left clicking on the image and then using the zoom buttons on your browser makes the image of the list readable

[avernosKeymaster 33947xp 1]

Issues I see with the full list are as follows…

chaff, it’s an interesting question 21 US is decent, 11 drops is very tight so you need to make sure everything does its job but you can do it without them.

Because of the list set up your shamblers are going to be your anvils, your elves have a lot of thunderous and no crush so you need to break when you hit, getting those charges are the key which is why some chaff could be helpful. However, as one UK Master once said “anything can be chaff if you need it to be” so sacrificing a regiment of archers to gain the charge with the cav is viable if it can win the game

So with that in mind, why have you given the infantry the diadem of dragonkind? Yes, you could flame and then surge in, but it’s 30 points for one turn of shooting, after that, they’ll be combat or possibly disordered. I’d be more inclined to change that to Blessing of the Gods, to give both units elite. The 4+ is just the worst you’ll find them swingy as bedamned so having elite on both is much better to try and modify that slightly.

What are your thoughts on the Master Hunter? Is it in there to add to the shots of the other two units of archers? I’d be inclined to up that to a King and give the shardblade for a couple of reasons. Higher defence and nerve means your inspiring sticks around for longer, also he hits on 2+ rerolls 1s, has more attacks and also Crushing strength (1), more consistent damage output coupled with the ability to stop fliers in the back line is always good.

 

 

[orinoco 5362xp 0]

Thanks Gerry.

The Shamblers with the diodem of dragonkind was for as you said to flame then surge in, but as you point out it’s a bit of a waste because it’s only likely to happen once.  Plus the unit it hits will most likely be chaff and therefore a waste.  The only other reason was it amused me to have fire throwing in an army that would be flammable.  Getting elite would be good so I’ll make the change to Blessing of the Gods.

The Master Hunter choice was partially because it’s one of the few models already painted.  The other reasons were, as you mentioned, to add more shots and because a lot of the army have scout I was looking for inspiring with scout (although both Tree Herders have that).  I have a Tales of War Elf somewhere that I can paint as an Elf King upgraded to The Shardblade and I am concerned about flyers

[orinoco 5362xp 1]

For some reason I gave one of the units of Gladestalkers the Deathroot Arrows upgrade, which is pointless because they have elite.  So I have 5 points to spend. Any suggestions? Should I give something to The Shardblade or a unit?

[avernosKeymaster 33947xp 1]

Deathroot is cheap vicious, so it affects the damage roll not your hit roll. You could leave them on or throw the mace of crushing on the hero so it’s a single reroll on a failed damage.

[orinoco 5362xp 0]

Updated 2300 point Sylvan Kin list with @avernos advice on changes

Left clicking on the image and then using the zoom buttons in your browser menu makes the image of the list readable

[orinoco 5362xp 0]

Now to reduce the list to 2000 points.  I’ve removed a unit of Stormwind Cavalry and the Brew of Strength from a unit of Forest Shamblers.  I’ve downgraded a unit of Gladestalkers to Kindred Archers (to use the same figures).  This leaves me with 35 points to spend.  Any changes or suggestions welcomed that use the figures from the updated 2300 point list or add magical artefacts or upgrades to units.

Left clicking on the image and then using the zoom buttons in your browser menu makes the image of the list readable

[avernosKeymaster 33947xp 1]

I’d think about adding the Staying Stone to the cav, puts them at 15/16 Nerve so less likely to be waivered.

A pricey way of spending the remaining points would be adding Sabre-Toothed Hunting Cat and the Blade of the Beast Slayer to the King.

It means if you’re attacking another individual he goes up to 10 attacks hitting on 2s, re-rolling 1s and with Crush 1. But if you are attacking anything big it’s 5 attacks on 2s with the re-rerolls followed by damaging with Crushing Strength 3. That should knock the puff out of any dragon.

 

[orinoco 5362xp 0]

Updated 2000 point Sylvan Kin list with @avernos advice on spending remaining points

Left clicking on the image and then using the zoom buttons in your browser menu makes the image of the list readable

[orinoco 5362xp 1]

Dropping from 2000 points to 1500 points.  I’ve removed the Tree Herder, the regiment of Kindred Archers and the regiment of Forest Guard.  I’ve swapped out Bane Chant on the Elven Archmage for Surge and given the Tome of Darkness to the Wiltfather.  This leaves 25 points.  Should I have removed or altered different units?  Should I remove more upgrades or magic artefacts and take a troop of Kindred Archers (who would they screen as most of the army has scout?) or something else?  Again any advice welcomed using miniatures from the 2000 point list (including taking a Forest Shambler out of a regiment to use as a Forest Warden).

Left clicking on the image and then using the zoom buttons in your browser menu makes the image of the list readable

[avernosKeymaster 33947xp 1]

with the unit count so low if you are giving this a shot I would throw the scrying gem on the archers. Forcing your opponent to stick down an additional D3 units at the start should help balance deployment.

alternatively I would think about something like this

Sylvan Kin [1500 / 2000 (500 Remaining)]
~ List Valid ~

Sylvan Kin [1500]

Kindred Archers (Infantry) Regiment [120]
Kindred Archers (Infantry) Regiment [120]
Forest Shamblers (Large Infantry) Horde [220]
– Awakened Guardians [20]
Forest Shamblers (Large Infantry) Horde [230]
– Blessing of the Gods [30]
Stormwind Cavalry* (Cavalry) Regiment [230]
– Gain Pathfinder [15]
– Staying Stone [5]
Elven King (Hero (Infantry)) 1 [135]
– The Shardblade [15]
– Blade of the Beast Slayer [20]
Elven Archmage (Hero (Infantry)) 1 [145]
– Shroud of the Saint [25]
– Surge (8) [30]
– Heal (6) [30]
Tree Herder (Hero (Monster)) 1 [300]
– Wiltfather [40]
– Surge (8) [0]

losing the additional surge on the wilt daddy and the duelist on your king but gaining another unit of archers to do some plink damage.

This list does suffer against high defence armies though, only the Wilt daddy has a consistent damage output, Crush one on the melee 4+ shamblers is too low. So I would be more inclined for something like this

Sylvan Kin [1500]

Kindred Archers (Infantry) Regiment [145]
– The Scrying Gem [25]
Kindred Archers (Infantry) Regiment [135]
– Aegis of the Elohi [15]
Forest Shamblers (Large Infantry) Horde [220]
– Awakened Guardians [20]
Forest Shamblers (Large Infantry) Horde [230]
– Blessing of the Gods [30]
Stormwind Cavalry* (Cavalry) Regiment [255]
– Gain Pathfinder [15]
– Brew of Strength [30]
Elven Prince (Hero (Infantry)) 1 [80]
– Lute of Insatiable Darkness [25]
– Bane Chant (2)
Elven Archmage (Hero (Infantry)) 1 [135]
– Shroud of the Saint [25]
– Bane Chant (2) [20]
– Heal (6) [30]
Tree Herder (Hero (Monster)) 1 [300]
– Wiltfather [40]
– Surge (8) [0]

 

King becomes a minor git with a guitar, that’s two sources of bane chant one for each shambler unit, Wilt loses the tome but honestly the scouting forest can charge on turn 1 and you want WD to be punching along with that so surge shenanigans have been sacrificed for damage output.

Upgraded the cav to have brew of strength, so +3 damage on the charge and +1 if the target survives into a second round helps the consistency again.

Scrying Gem stays to force your opponent to drop more, and the Aegis is because I had 15 points left so a little additional survivability can’t hurt.

As long as Wilt is close the shamblers will be rerolling all the 1s and with two bane chants and a cloak of death in there it should help to pop people. I left the heal on because that will be annoying late game, you may have to sacrifice a bane chant to get it off but hey ho

[avernosKeymaster 33947xp 1]

if you fancy trying some games on UB at some point to test some of the lists let me know

[orinoco 5362xp 1]

Thanks again @avernos.  I’ll familiarise myself with Universal Battles and contact you on Discord in the next few weeks about getting a game.

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