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This topic contains 81 replies, has 22 voices, and was last updated by  onlyonepinman 1 week, 1 day ago.

Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 82 total)
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  • #1744427

    pagan8th
    Participant
    5629xp

    Apparently I offended people by having an opinion…

    According to the Oxford English Dictionary…

    “an event or medium where people can exchange opinions and ideas on a particular issue”

    So I’ve edited the original post so as not to offend… it’s gone now.

    • This topic was modified 3 weeks, 4 days ago by  pagan8th.
    • This topic was modified 3 weeks, 1 day ago by  pagan8th.
    #1744434

    darthcheese
    Participant
    3695xp

    It’s not cheap, like really not cheap, but at least no one is forcing me to buy it so I won’t. But if you do, good for you.

    #1744443

    soulman
    2611xp
    Cult of Games Member

    And you should be over 15 years old as well..! HAHAHA….

    #1744450

    redscope
    Participant
    1595xp

    What a shock the doom and gloom squad are out again. Unable to be critical of the Horus Hersey which by the way is 144 pounds on the ontabletop store and it an amazing deal for what it in the box. You still have to find something to moan about which is the price of primarchs.

    I dont understand why you cannot just enjoy your aspect of the hobby without trying to insult the vast majority of ontabletops customers by calling them cultists because of how they choose to spend money.

    #1744453

    rastamann
    2505xp
    Cult of Games Member

    That’s probably not the best way to go about discussing prices. The Primarch models are forgeworld resin models, for starters, which have always been expensive, but totally not necessary to playing anything Horus Heresy. In fact, I wouldn’t play those at all, as they’re not in most battles. To be honest, I’d stick with epic scale for Horus Heresy or anything 40k related unless playing a skirmish.

    Then as others have pointed out, perhaps not insulting people will go a longer way to having a productive discussion, but while we’re at it, the HH launch box comes with 52 marines (40 line troops, 10 terminators, 2 characters, a dreadnought and large tank, plus a hardback 350 page rulebook. Even if you discount anything else, you get the marines for ~2.8£ each in most online retailers, such as On Tabletop. You go to Warlord Games and buy a box of Bolt Action miniatures and it comes at around 1£ each for smaller models; you go to a skirmish ruleset of comparable companies, such as Corvus Belli or Privateer Press and you get charged at least those 2£/model. Infinity models, for instance, come to about 8£ each…

     

    I criticize them and anyone’s free to do so whenever they choose, but refraining from going after the fan or player base would be perhaps a better way not to shut down the discussion.

    #1744716

    onlyonepinman
    17001xp
    Cult of Games Member

    There isn’t even a need for a productive conversation.  GW charge an arm and a leg for their Miniatures and you need quite a few of them to play their games.  If the price isn’t for you, don’t buy.  You don’t have to like it but there’s nothing anyone here can do about it no matter how much we discuss it – GW can charge whatever they like and people either will or won’t pay it.  It’s such a pedestrian topic, you don’t have a right to have things sold to you at a price you can afford, certainly not luxury goods such as Miniatures.  GW can charge whatever they like and people either will or won’t pay it and when enough people decide they won’t pay, GW will have to change tack.  But that doesn’t seem like it’s going to happen any time soon.

    If paying the (frankly insane) prices GW charge isn’t something you are prepared or able to do might I suggest just finding a game that you do like and buying those Miniatures instead and let everyone else enjoy what they enjoy, even if it’s games workshop.

    #1744748

    fourtytwo
    10505xp
    Cult of Games Member

    Even as someone who does NOT buy GW-stuff, with the company being the most prominent in our hobby, I have good reason to be concerned, for example that their predatory business practices might be mimicked by their competitors, of which I might be a customer. And that’s just one of many reasons to be concerned, even as a non-costumer of GW.

    On a side note: If you defend predatory practices directed against you by an entity, and if you defend an entity which exploits you (like your spending disorder, lack of judgement etc…), these are among the aspects which actually define a cult or cult-like behaviour. So, calling people who are willing to pay these insane prizes, and who rationalize them or even defend the corporate entity demanding these prizes can be called cultish or a cult. It is not an insult, but an apt description.

    • This reply was modified 3 weeks, 3 days ago by  fourtytwo.
    • This reply was modified 3 weeks, 3 days ago by  fourtytwo.
    • This reply was modified 3 weeks, 3 days ago by  fourtytwo.
    #1745156

    limburger
    19975xp
    Cult of Games Member

    The tactics GW uses are at the very least morally and ethically questionable, but unfortunately they are also practices that give companies (short term) profit …

    Let’s not kid ourselves here. The purpose of any ‘starter set’ by any company is to get their hooks into your wallet and get you to spend more by buying all the bits they’re selling.

    @onlyonepinman finding an alternative game or an alternative source for models is easier said than done.
    GW is the 5000 pound gorilla in the room and it is so successful because it is very good at selling the idea that only ‘official’ products are to be used with their games.

    It takes a serious commitment not to follow the herd, which is something most people just don’t have the time and energy for (been there, done that, got the t-shirt). And that’s before you consider that the presentation and userfriendlyness of the packaging for most alternatives present barriers that look like Mount Everest.

    Convenience is worth a lot to people at the gateway into our hobby and it’s about time the rest of the industry learned to appreciate that too.

    #1745173

    onlyonepinman
    17001xp
    Cult of Games Member

    Finding alternative games or sources if miniatures is easier said that done?  Are you kidding me?  It’s a piece of the proverbial, this website is dedicated to covering the entire industry there are loads of alternative games and miniatures out there.  Unless if course you are somehow trying to find proxies for actual 40k models that look the same as the originals in which case I don’t really think there’s any help for you.

    At the end of the day, if you choose to follow the heard, then the consequences of doing so are entirely on you.  It’s not that hard to stop following

    #1745227

    zeker1966
    1623xp
    Cult of Games Member

    I don’t understand the purpose of the original post. Is it just to see if there are like minds out there that want to bitch about the prices, etc of GW? If those that purchase GW products are part of a cult then so are those that are bitching about GW.

    I’ve looked at prices of large resin models other than GW and honestly they aren’t that much out of line. Maybe 20% more. The same with GW plastic. Yes it’s more expensive but not wildly out of line. I’ll also not the only way you will be paying the sticker price is if you purchase from either GW directly or one of their stores.

     

    #1745243

    limburger
    19975xp
    Cult of Games Member

    @onlyonepinman yes it is much easier said than done.
    GW is everywhere. I’d say that yt has been/is the gateway into this hobby for the vast majority of us.

    And with the way they manage their shops and sales there is very little reason to assume anything else even exists (White Dwarf definitely does not mention non GW products … ).

    Going beyond GW requires first stumbling upon a site like OTT.
    You really need to make an effort to find them … unless you happen to be on kickstarter.

     

     

    #1745265

    redscope
    Participant
    1595xp

    Limburger I dont know what point you are trying to make here. For example I dont play golf, I dont know much about it. I assume local to me there are golf courses and golf shops. I am sure there are dominating companies that make golf products. But the fact I dont know about golf or small companies that sell golf products is nobody elses fault apart from me. If I woke up one day interested in the golf I expect I would google it and start doing research on it and find the OTT version for golf.

    It is the same with Hobby products if someone wants something other than GW products it is on them to find it. The fact a person does not know about say flames of war is not GW fault.

    This might shock you but most people dont just play one game system. I am recently painting up star wars legion and I have been showing people I talk to AOS about some of those images. I posted links to Bad Squiddo to show them models this week. We talk about the hobby from RPG, to star wars, to new model companies. This sterotype you seem to think exists is not a reality. People that play GW products are fully aware other games system exist. For some people like me it is just another games system we collect, for some people those choose only to play AOS. How is that any different for someone who only choose to play Bolt Action or Moonstone ?

     

     

    #1745280

    onlyonepinman
    17001xp
    Cult of Games Member

    Just because GW is most people’s gateway into Wargaming doesn’t mean it’s hard to find alternatives.  It’s difficult to get people in general to turn away from GW en masse, but on an individual level, making a switch is literally as easy as buying something different.  Nobody needs to stumble on anything – Facebook and Google are happy to show you related adverts for things you search for.  The only people who aren’t going to randomly find out about other games are people who don’t use the internet and while they may exist they are very few in number and also probably outwith this discussion – this discussion being on the internet

    #1745282

    onlyonepinman
    17001xp
    Cult of Games Member

    @zeker1966 It’s hard to do a comparison of ForgeWorld resin Miniatures really.  Games Workshop have an inconsistent pricing structure based on how many of something they think they will sell rather than what the item may appear to be worth as an individual unit.  However, their plastics are WAY more expensive than equivalent miniatures from other suppliers.

    GW charge £30 for 10 Cadian Shock Troops.  Mantic charge £22.50 for 20 GCPS troops.  Wargames Atlantic charge £25 for 24 sci-fi soldiers.

    GW are not just a bit more expensive than other suppliers of similar products, they’re a lot more expensive.  That shouldn’t really been seen as a controversial statement, it’s blindingly obvious that that’s the case.

     

    #1745288

    tuffyears
    22338xp
    Cult of Games Member

    I learnt a long time ago don’t buy direct from GW , go to independents that offer discounts. and you can always find forge world kits on eBay or second hand gaming retailers

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