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This topic contains 13 replies, has 7 voices, and was last updated by  grantinvanman 1 month, 1 week ago.

Viewing 14 posts - 1 through 14 (of 14 total)
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  • #1882687

    hawker2000
    440xp
    Cult of Games Member

    Can I shed some light on how much GW think plastic costs with referring to Mantic Games sci fi strike force vs GW combat patrols price as of this week

    Mantic Games
    Strike Forces link https://www.manticgames.com/firefight/getting-started/?mc_cid=6c90493c16&mc_eid=e8bc126ca9

    Games Workshop
    Combat Patrol link https://www.warhammer.com/en-GB/shop/warhammer-40000/start-here

    #1882693

    grantinvanman
    Participant
    2059xp

    What’s up with the prices? It’s like you gave half the story.

    #1882699

    zorg
    18742xp
    Cult of Games Member

    More expensive for less figures looks about normal for GW🤔

    #1882704

    grantinvanman
    Participant
    2059xp

    Two cars have four wheels, a steering wheel, transmissions, doors.

    One costs more than the other. Car A is fun. Car B is fun.

    Which car will you buy? The one you like. Otherwise, EVERYONE would drive a Trabant.

    🚗🤣

    #1882763

    sundancer
    42710xp
    Cult of Games Member

    Well it’s the usual “company charges what they will get away with”. G’Wullu just know their fanbase. So they slap a price sticker on it and rake in the money.

    And that is ok. Because companies are not our friends. None of them are. They exist to sell products. And if the product is cheaply to produce and can be sold at a high margin the better!

    Some people working for any company might also want to be our friends and make us enjoy the hobby but at the end of the day they need to make money.

    G’Wullu is to expensive? Buy something else. Buy used.

    #1882825

    bvandewalker
    Participant
    2077xp

    You could also buy Wargames Atlantic, they actually do a lot of SciFi infantry in plastic and are both cheaper and arguably better quality than  GW (I recommend their edition of the Iron Core eisenkern stormtroopers if your looking for great quality and don’t mind or like me actually prefer slimmer historical scale, if your wanting large numbers buy the Death Fields Cannon Fodder set).

    I am going to level with you there are a lot of resin and metal manufacturers that beat GW in both the price and quality department, and there are also 3D STL artists that blow GW out of the water. Heck there are even better games and I dare say settings than 40k.

    You see the real reason GW is doing so well is they own all their own logistics (I mean they are basically the Disney of wargaming) and their “cult recruitment” style marketing that targets newbs (I have watched youtube videos done by people who didn’t know there where other miniature war games besides 40k, they sounded like brainwashed cultists).

    If you want to do something about GW’s prices, don’t buy from them and if anyone asks how to get into the hobby tell them to play one of the Graves (Stargrave, Frostgrave, Ghost, Shadow Deep, etc.), Kings of War, or a history game like Saga or Boltaction, but never recommend 40k. Remember friends don’t let friends become GW addicts.

    • This reply was modified 1 month, 1 week ago by  bvandewalker.
    #1882827

    grantinvanman
    Participant
    2059xp

    Meh, GW has its good and bad – just like every company. When you look at the companies that spawned from former GW employees, they literally try to copy the GW business model.

    Warlord Games is the largest, most successful step-child of GW, formed by all ex-GW high level folks. And there is no way anyone can deny they don’t aspire to be the “next GW”. They acquire other companies, they do the “churn” of multiple editions (Bolt Action is their big one), and kudos to them for grabbing that coveted spot.

    GW will always be the “gateway drug” to war gaming, for many. It was for me, going back … maybe 30+ years? And I’ve sworn off GW at times, but there’s always a nostalgia factor for me. And maybe I’m lucky enough to have the disposable income to buy what I want, within some level of reason.

    I absolutely have many companies’ games and miniatures on my shelves, in varying degrees. GW has a place in my hobby, but it’s no longer the dominant one.

    I’m also far more of a builder/painter now; I couldn’t even tell you when I rolled a set of dice. Everyone does their hobby differently, and I won’t begrudge or deny anyone that “their punk rock is less in any way than my punk rock”.

    Built, paint, maybe even game – but it’s all about fun.

    Drive that Trabant, or drive a Porsche – they’ll both get you across town. 😁

    #1882879

    sundancer
    42710xp
    Cult of Games Member

    Drive that Trabant, or drive a Porsche

    A good Trabant is way harder to get these days.

    #1882881

    grantinvanman
    Participant
    2059xp

    And one generally needs three Trabbies to own: one for driving, two for parts. I saw one “in the wild” when I was in Bulgaria, it moved around the neighbourhood I stayed in. I took a lot of photos of it!

    #1882907

    hawker2000
    440xp
    Cult of Games Member

    Its cool People, 🙂 but just wanted to highlight that plastic is cheap to produce and still make a profit.  But I agree with all of you guys, I will be setting my sites on other wargame companies which are cheaper.

    • This reply was modified 1 month, 1 week ago by  hawker2000.
    #1882984

    jamescutts
    6875xp
    Cult of Games Member

    Those mantic kits are cracking value, especially with the amount of gameplay you will get out of them, and on sale too!

    In terms of cost GW know they can charge higher prices, and have always been “expensive” compared to other companies in the hobby, its a bit of a done to death discussion. Like them and can afford them, buy them, otherwise don’t 🙂

    As for producing plastic kits they are far from cheap, there’s huge overheads in setting up the tooling, 10’s or 100’s of thousands, and while a individual sprue might be low cost in material, it has to cover the cost of that tooling overhead, and then there’s Quality Control, packaging, etc. those all add up, on top of that retailers also have to have margins, so while the likes of business daddy might be offering 20% off they also need to make a cut too.   In short, material cheap doesn’t equal a product being cheap.

    #1883030

    grantinvanman
    Participant
    2059xp

    Not to mention the basic ingredient in your plastic toys: OIL. Yes, black tea from the earth. You can drive your electric car to the hobby shop, and then feed big petro your money… in fact, one of the largest plants in the world to create the small plastic balls that are the beginning of miniatures is about 2 hours from where I live. Fun fact: the groundwater (like, a puddle) near the plant can be LIT ON FIRE! Pollution is real.

     

    And oil prices impact the price of plastic, obviously . Plastic has an upside: it’s cheaper to ship, because it weighs less than metal (duh!).

    Oil. It makes life greasy! 🔥

    • This reply was modified 1 month, 1 week ago by  grantinvanman.
    #1883032

    redscope
    Participant
    2708xp

    If asked why I buy GW minis I would echo James point above. When I go food shopping the reason I buy the more expensive Heinz beans over the cheaper store options is because I prefer the higher quality and I can afford them. I have often used the cars as an example I dont own a ferrari because the car is outside of my price range. That is a choice I make and yes you pay for the price of a Ferrari badge but it is a higher quality product. I dont hate ferrari because they make a product I cannot afford.

    To make it clear I dont just buy GW products. Unlike the shopping example the reason we buy models is far more complex but often you are presented with choices at different price ranges. That is good for the hobby to have a choice.

    Recently I was looking at foot knights models with a dual purpose in mind. To use in games like the old world and other games like the barons war, lion rampant etc. I had a lot of choice but I was looking for a classic older style knight which came down to two choices the GW foot knights or the wargames atlantic foot knight. The wargames models are half the price and get you a few more models so logically that is the easy choice ?

    Well that is what I bought. They are nice models, they do the job. However they reason they are cheaper is very clear the models are a lot smaller than the GW knights. They are closer to true 28mm rather than heroic GW ones. You also notice the difference between the quality of the models is vast. The face details on the wargames models for example details such as ears are difficult to define on the models, the hairstyle is basic. the GW faces even on simple models often define mouth, gums, teeth, tounges. The shields on the wargames are flat lumps of plastic on the GW they have a lot more detail. The edges have a defined rim, they have a knight symbol on them, the rivets on the shield is moulded.

     

    If you want to say what point does that make when you stand 3 feet away playing a game ? Your right none at all. If all you are concerned about is putting models on the table to play.

    The hobby for a lot of people is much more than playing the game. It is about the hobby itself, the painting, and having an army great looking army. Hence the quality of the minis is a factor in that buying process. To suggest people are in a cult for choosing GW products or a cheaper range is just determined by the price is wrong. I cannot think of a company that produces the level of quality GW do in plastic at a price point that is vastly different.

    The other point I would address is the cost of the hobby. Most hobby involve a fiscal outlay of some kind. If your into a sport the cost of the items to play that sport, the membership of the gym or paying to play golf. Over the years I have had different hobbies. Computer games is a popular one still that involves typically a console will cost 500, plus the games are 70 each these days. The average spend on a hobby is between 5% to 10% of your wage. It depends at which point you are in your life. If your just starting out at work or saving for ahouse then your budget will be much lower.

    What I think makes this hobby value for money is how much you get out of the investment. I am still using the models I bought 35 years ago. Even if the models go out of production it is rare that I cannot use them in some form within a game. That is a factor in most of the choices that with reason the models will last me a lifetime. Hence spending a little more to get a higher quality product is a valued choice. The return i get back from the investment is so much more than the value of the goods.

    It is for everyone to make that choice when they buy models. We have companies that offer a product. Your choice is the buy them or to choose something else. We should all be thankful that we have so many great companies offering so many different products at different range of quality and prices. To judge them just on price is not possible not all models are equal.

    #1883066

    grantinvanman
    Participant
    2059xp

     

    The debate over GW and others has been around since the beginning of the internet. Heck, I remember when GW had a forum! And these would always come up. And get shut down, fast. There’s no point.

    Just enjoy your toys. And don’t make fun of other people’s toys, too often. 🤣

    • This reply was modified 1 month ago by  grantinvanman. Reason: Reasons. Who cares?
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