June 14, 2013 by warzan
Video Sponsor: Wayland Games
Warren is ready to move on to the next stage of his adventures in Flames of War. Joining him is our resident Time Lord David. Today the guys are ready for some man-on-man action as the German Infantry Sections from the Open Fire! starter box face off against their Allied counterparts.
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What a sight to behold. Keep it up medic David.
Time to break out the Tank hunters David or call in the RAF.
I’ve tried a game of Muskets and Tomahawks, that had a very similar mechanic when it came to combat. The melee was fought out until it reached conclusion. It gives a real brutal feel to the game.
Muskets vs Tomahawks.
Isn’t that a tad broken. The soldiers will need plenty of cover to hunker down against the P-40s to have any chance..
Time to break out… just break out 😀
Oh and when I say 8inches for spacing due to command … i mean 6…. I don’t know why i said 8.. I was measuring 6
Very impressive looking. I guess the stugs can’t be out flanked if they span the whole table! Nothing a few bananas (in the exhausts) wouldn’t sort out : ) Achtung eine Banane!
I love this series. Great at explaining the basic concepts. But also hinting at the more complex rules. Great to see Dave’s medical collection. Keep these coming. If I am not mistaken the Germans have some Panzer riders called Begliet Assault Platoon. Be great to see some crazy guys hanging on for dear life during the charge of the Stugs.
Yay! Another FoW episode. Love it!
Just got started with the game myself, and yes, its all your fault 😉
A question. You say that you only get the benefit from the wall and that it won’t get give the concealment to the enemy troops if you’re up right against it. But only two of your bases where up against it, and two where behind them. How does that work?
And yes, I really do need to read the rulebook, but I’m too busy painting infantry at the moment…
If the guns where in range and he could see them (2d terrain makes this a little harder to visualize), he could shoot through my guys at the wall into the guys behind… and yes they would lower the “to hit” of the whole platoon… its not a good idea to keep guys that would lower your platoon near those with the benefits.
It only takes ONE base to lower it for EVERYONE in the platoon…. fun fun fun
“29, Let’s Go!” Thanks first to David for the little bit of a history lesson. I’m sure many viewers no longer have relatives living who can recount firsthand their experiences in the Second World War, but enthusiasts like David help keep that (very important) period of history alive. Great content and great episode guys! Good gaming!
Loving this series. Might actually end up playing some historical lol. It’s either going to be Flames of War or Bolt Action.
Great episode, must say to David don’t let Warren ignore you, be more assertive and call him up on things, particularly thinking of first set of saves, you told him to roll 3 on one guy and 4 on the other, he then just rolled 7 and took two off when you had told him to roll separately,
Can’t wait for you to teach warren stormtrooper moves, he’s going to love that rule.
How are the Stugs called ? Nacht Wölfe Panzer Fänge ?
Brilliant stuff. Thanks so much for showing us your uniform, David! Loved it.
Think warren ment to say: nacht wolfe panzer zhan.
Zhan= tooth
I´m german so take my word for it if i say: Panzerzahn translates as tank-tooth. If you want to say panzer fangs you say Panzer Fänge, the “ä” is pronounced like the “ae” in Faery. Also its not pronounced “Saaan” ^^ but “Tsaan”.
On the video: great work guys!
Naja, Zähn, Fäng, Fangzähne was denn nun? Also alles passt, Fänge heißen halt die Zähne von Raubtieren.
Well, teeth, fangs what now? So everything fits fangs are the teeth’s of predators.
Hab dich ja nur bestätigt und eine Aussprachhilfe gegeben ^^.
Don´t mind us germans, just a friendly discussion. 🙂
What a fantastic opening to a video. The authentic uniform and the medkit collection is really impressive. Thanks Dave for sharing.
Great video guys. Was looking forward to the infantry spot.
If you have a minute to clarify a rule for me (I only started playing a couple of months ago and have had to read this over many times), when a team is entirely inside area terrain, to target the team must you be within 6″ of the team or must there just be less than 6″ of area terrain between you?
One last thing…2 weeks is too long to wait for the next episode, I’m gonna have nothing to do but paint my infantry now.
any team that straddles on the edge of area terrain can be seen by troop on the same side of that terrain, but is out of line of sight to teams on the far side of the area terrain.
teams COMPLETELY within area terrain (that is taller than the both the shooting team and its target) cannot be see or be seen by teams more than 6″ away. Any team beyond 6″ is out of line of sight.
If a team is in the same terrain piece they can only see teams up to 6″ away.
I hope that makes more sence
Thanks for the clarification. I think i got it now. It’s the *taller than both shooting team and target” I have got to remember.
Its good that Warren is so enthusiastic on FOW. This brings more playing videos.
between you and the cub chairman and crew I’m struggling to wait till I’ve rounded off my current projects (wraith army for eldar and my khadoran journeyman) to buy anything and this would be my first look at historical games keep up the good work lads :D! also v nice kit David however it begs the question… do you have another kit you’re hiding?
I knew the bright silver stugs with the giant red wolf on the side were coming. Harry Turtledove would be proud. When you are ready to build your Nazi bell Warren, let me know, I’ll ship you a 15mm scale version of the liberty bell straight from Philadelphia that you can use as a stuka. In the mean time enjoy butchering history. In any event I wouldn’t suggest driving those things down an open road in broad day light because they would become dust very quickly to allied fighter bombers.
Is really GREAT the you guys are doing this, is really NICE!, but can u guys read the rules a little bit before playing, you guys are killing this game for real, making so many mistakes is just gone confuse all the new players; and that’s no fear, so please just read little bit and go over what u guys doing before the making. That will be really helpful specially for those new guys the don`t know about the game and looking your videos for a learning and understanding of the game! Thanks!!
How exactly are they killing it? I had no interest in this game then I watched their vids. The way both Dave and Warren have done the videos, although maybe not accurate according to you, have made me now purchase a copy of the starter set. So how is that exactly killing the game? They’ve made it interested and not anal.
And Warren the Stugs are and “OK” tank, but really you didn’t pick a good tank for the German side, don`t get my wrong I’m a German fan; I have, if I put all my units together, probably around 15 000 points or more in Germans alone ( I have Russians and Americans also); My case is you don’t want to go against a horde of Russian tank Guard Army (t-34/85), and David probably back me up in this one, you will get crush so bad the your NachtWulfhardly will recover from that!! LOL!!
Your Wayland Games affiliate link doesn’t work, is broken.
so what list is the 21 StuGs from ?
A StuG Batterie will field 7 StuG and 3 StuH as per the Bridge by Bridge book. Not sure if other books have bigger forces.
Warren by all means make a force up but please try to follow a list so if you ever want to play a tournament it will be essential. Also you find most people will play LW with either 1750 or 1780 pts (or around there) so yes it’s all fun and giggles but have a little bit of effort to play it as intended.
I pointed out that a proper list should be built in the comments of the last video, episode three. It was the same place I guessed the utter bunk night wolf would consist of bright silver “stugs” with giant wolves on the “skirts”. The series does an ok job of introducing the game to people, but many rules are missed and some of it seems contrived. In any event Warren is always more interested in rewriting the world as we know it and making a splash than getting things right. I knew he would try and turn the game into 15mm 40k or some sci-fi adventure when it is anything but that. Gaming world war two does not have to be anal, it can be loose, but to make a clown session out of it, to me, is disrespectful to the millions of people who lost their lives in that horrid conflict. The German political structure certainly believed in mystics and they did fund pre-war scientific expeditions to trace the roots of the “master” race, but by 1944 they had no dedicated Waffen SS units set up strictly to go find relics. There are no “gaps” in world war 2 that big and there was certainly no friggin dedicated “hiding” SS regiment in the French foreign Legion who went on to Vietnam and died in some Spartan last stand. At the end of ww2 the whole SS was declared criminal and that barred any of them from serving in any military unit in the world. Some scattered ones may have lied their way into the legion but a whole regiment showing up and saying here we are, yeah ok lol. So I have to agree with you here james in saying pick a list and play the game right instead of making the game something its not in the name of theatrics. I consider warren to be the lady gaga of war gaming, always trying to do something silly just for the attention of doing it.
Erm….its a game. We all know Warren is rewriting history. A lot of “alternative reality” stuff is out there these days (much of it war based) and I think Warren et al exercising their imaginations is great. I think its a bit outrageous to say these two guys exploring their own spin on rolling dice and playing with models is disrespectful to those who lost their lives/loved ones in the war. We can do without gaming Gestapo…..
With respect, there are alternative reality WW2 era games to play already.
I don’t disagree that one can use FoW in such a manner as Warren has done.
That is part of his character to do so, and to take a game and make it one’s own through imagination and creative input is no bad thing.
It is a pity that FoW can’t have vanilla coverage though.
There is not a lot of historicals featured on BoW videos as it is.
Correct it is a game. And as such Warren is free to do things his own way, but within limits. One of those limits is if you are going to play an SS unit (or like) then you don’t trivialise it or any other historical unit for that matter. That is being disrespectful. Is Warren doing that ? maybe, to some yes to others no. He is however treading a thin line and perhaps needs to reflect a little.
As for playing the game but taking a made-up approach then go for it, I can even tolerate silver StuGs with red wolves on the side. But what I can’t tolerate is trying to play outside the rules. A game has rules and you stay within those rules or risk being called a cheat.
Would Warren like me to build a 40K army that just contains say Land Raiders ? No HQ, no troops. Or better still as I like Orc warlords just an entire force of Ghazkuls ? Perhaps not. There are limits to how a force can be built for reasons and one of them is playability so you might get a balanced game. Warren has decided to throw a big chunk of the rules away and as such I can’t see how it can help any new player into the game.
All some of us are asking is keep the light hearted approach, the inane giggles and so on (ie have fun) but also keep the rules.
Very good point @jamesf . I can see how annoying his lack of list army must be to some people now, especially with @warzan s extreme version of such a thing. However, I think we also need to realise its not our game its Warren and Davids and they can use whatever rules they like if they agree beforehand. Also, they have mentioned a few times they are ignoring some rules to emphasise aspects they wish to highlight. I think its a privilege to see these guys game and attempt to introduce new blood to a gaming system. Veterans of FOW perhaps need to look elsewhere. The only real reason I posted in response to @gawain is the suggestion that @warzan ‘is disrespectful to the millions of people who lost their lives in that horrid conflict’. This is an oppressive attitude surrounded by name calling ‘clown’ and ‘Lady GaGa’ (although I think Warren might like the later). As for disrespecting the SS, I’m sorry but that’s just silly. All war games trivialise war to some extent. Toy soldiers vrs friends and relatives being ripped to shreds……in fact any media that aims to entertain through depiction of war is trivialising it to some extent. It just seems like the ‘respect’ issue yourself and Gawain bring up show a lack of it for other gamers. Presumably we just have to agree to disagree on that particular issue. If you see playing FOW as a sacred homage to the fallen…good luck to you.
Very good point jamesf . I can see how annoying his lack of list army must be to some people now, especially with warzan s extreme version of such a thing. However, I think we also need to realise its not our game its Warren and Davids and they can use whatever rules they like if they agree beforehand. Also, they have mentioned a few times they are ignoring some rules to emphasise aspects they wish to highlight. I think its a privilege to see these guys game and attempt to introduce new blood to a gaming system. Veterans of FOW perhaps need to look elsewhere. The only real reason I posted in response to Gawain is the suggestion that warzan ‘is disrespectful to the millions of people who lost their lives in that horrid conflict’. This is an oppressive attitude surrounded by name calling ‘clown’ and ‘Lady GaGa’ (although I think Warren might like the later). As for disrespecting the SS, I’m sorry but that’s just silly. All war games trivialise war to some extent. Toy soldiers vrs friends and relatives being ripped to shreds……in fact any media that aims to entertain through depiction of war is trivialising it to some extent. It just seems like the ‘respect’ issue yourself and Gawain bring up show a lack of it for other gamers. Presumably we just have to agree to disagree on that particular issue. If you see playing FOW as a sacred homage to the fallen…good luck to you.
I think you are getting a tad lost.
The SS were a brutal bunch of ideologically driven bastards.
Trivialising them doesn’t really do anyone any favours.
Of course it is possible to play war games without being disrespectful. If you only see it as pushing toy soldiers around and lose the connection to history then I guess you are right. Maybe you could just play Warhammer.
It is possible to play as the SS, enjoy the game but still be very aware of what it was all about. Enjoyment and reflection are not mutually exclusive.
However this is one game where it is rather unfortunate to disassociate the game from “the fluff”.
@chibi Don’t get me wrong. The SS were everything you say they were. Similarly a game is not reality and is therefore of less importance or a more ‘trivial’ version of events.
Also, I love warhammer and other fantasy sci/fi games because I think its wonderful escapism. To reflect on the nasty side of human nature across history and the realities of war I choose to read and watch factual/fact based movies to give these things the focus and clarity they deserve. I don’t and shouldn’t feel in anyway inferior to people who choose to access these things through play as your post implies. In that respect I’m not lost, I’m in a different place. THE point is…I simply respect the right of Warren to disassociate from history as done in Raiders of the lost Ark or HellBoy etc and I respect that some people are not capable, or choose not to do this…..Warrens army are a fictional force called the Nacht Wolfen that never existed. He likes the look of the Stug Tank. He is not playing in a factual context…..so give him a break or the poor guy WILL go GaGa…..how would you like glitter Stugs?
….its only as real as you want it to be. The degree of your immersion in the history books should in no way exclude you from a game….it is unfortunate people can’t see that.
“Similarly a game is not reality and is therefore of less importance or a more ‘trivial’ version of events.”
Yes a game is indeed trivial especially when compared to the horrific reality of warfare.
The problem starts when you trivialise the reality by how you treat the signifiers.
It is one thing to have a Death Korps styled upon the SS in 40K. It is another to style the SS on the 40k Death Korps.
If you ain’t interested in the history, why bother playing a historical game?
As I said before there are plenty of alternative WW2 games to choose from.
Warren is of course at liberty to alter things to taste if he and his opponent choose.
It seems a waste of opportunity that a historical game gets some coverage with someone interested in history, only to get sidetracked by fictional add ons.
Next year will be the 70th anniversary of Operation Overlord, not Operation Timelord.
And as with anything that does not praise the workings of the master the sycophants will emerge to defend the master, just like lady gaga.
and at this point. he might as well ad glitter to the tanks
Errr i think you’ll find i have given BoW a fair share of constructive critisism…..I try not to be hurtful if I can though…
If he doesn’t glitter at least one up now I think I’ll feel a little bit betrayed…lol
When’s the next episode? I need another fix. Found other Flames of War vids on their official channel but they’re boring compared to Warren & Dave’s.
‘The problem starts when you trivialise the reality by how you treat the signifiers’ I take your point here but the level of significance level put on the story/reenactment are a personal decision not to be dictated to by others.
‘It is one thing to have a Death Korps styled upon the SS in 40K. It is another to style the SS on the 40k Death Korps’ …again I can see where you are coming from here….but its a personal choice to add significance to one system or the other…..is it better to play death corp like the SS with heart felt conviction or better to play FoW SS with a custom list (something many 40k players would hate) whilst suspending your historical association? I personally respect the individual players choice on that.
‘If you ain’t interested in the history, why bother playing a historical game?’ My answer to this sounds like a cliche, sorry…..but because thanks to our societies struggle for freedom of choice I can explore this game on any level I like. Maybe by doing so other people may find a way to attach more historical significance to gaming…..but they shouldn’t have to because you want them to. I’m very interested in history…..did I say I wasn’t?
‘ alter things to taste if he and his opponent choose’ ….worth noting different players may also attach different levels of significance to the same game session. In this case the two players enjoy different aspects but share much common ground and are aware of each others sensibilities.
‘It seems a waste of opportunity that a historical game gets some coverage with someone interested in history, only to get sidetracked by fictional add ons’ ……agreed to some extent but not everyone is struggling to disassociate.
‘Next year will be the 70th anniversary of Operation Overlord, not Operation Timelord’…..but I probably wont be playing a game as an act of remembrance, if you do I sincerley wish you the all the best.
Trivialise the fight against fascism all you want bud. I will mourn the loss of focus and understanding. Society is all the worse for it.
Everyone who plays a historical wargame based on fighting the third reich does the trivialising you mention to some extent even if you attach a high level of political/historical significance to your FoW. Is warrens game really contributing to fascism in the real world? If I play an equivalent themed game am I? Focus and understanding of the fight against facism are not war gaming dependent traits and as mentioned IMHO thay are perhaps more easily found with clarity in other media. Thats a personal choice. How do you find Grindhouse Incursion fits in to this debate? I don’t know much about the game but the SS lady showing her bum off is encouraging fascism? Or giving it a two fingered salute?
http://www.grindhousegames.com/pages/incursion-home
and let’s get it right. I’m the one who called him lady gaga not chibi
sorry Gawain….I was refering to your post but it perhaps was’t obvious
Still waiting for episode 5. Ignoring the arguments about historical accuracy and so called “respect”. It’s an fing board game. If you want to respect the fallen around the war the game is based on, go do it elsewhere in real life, don’t bring it to a board game. Board games are meant as a “what if” and are supposed to be fun.
.’ Ignoring the arguments about historical accuracy and so called “respect”’
“If you want to respect the fallen around the war the game is based on, go do it elsewhere in real life, don’t bring it to a board game. ”
You have a very odd way of ignoring the discussion.
I suggest that you use less of the effing and show more respect to others.
It is a sensitive area and a valid topic of discussion. AFAIK this is not a board game but a discussion board. It is however rather sad that you can wholly disconnect wargaming so thoroughly from history and the brutality of Fascism. Pew pew.
From what I understand of the guys that play FoW at my LFGS, historical and fun are NOT mutually exclusive.
And for the record, I have not the slightest interest of telling others what they can or cannot do with games. I made that perfectly clear in my first post on this thread.
I still maintain, that given the lack of historical gaming covered on BoW videos, that it is a pity that a more serious play through was not undertaken.
I am entitled to hold that opinion.
.