Historicon 2019 Live Blog - Part One!

I feel for that guy … all that hard work of organising several games summed up as a single sentence.

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🙂 We do our best.

But Dave makes some really great points here, there really ARE significant distinctions between all these conflicts and periods. We tend to over generalize in wargaming, which is especially uncool in historical. But when you’re trying to film a 5- min or less video …

The tables looked amazing and the computer-assisted management was making the game very fast and smooth.

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daegren

True on the video length and I’m sure he understands.

It looks like he is exhausted from setup as well.
The hard core historical folks will always be the ones the ‘eye twitch’ at inaccuracies, but I venture to say without them carving the way we wouldn’t have so many variations of war gaming.

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This was at about 10:30 AM. I went back at 9:00 PM Dave was still going strong on multiple tables. 😀

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goban

I will have to reconnoitre this game system

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@Goban – The database / computer system definitely handled the detail like fatigue, casualties, and I think supply). Looked like it was calculating changes to hit, ranges and the like as well.

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The website seems to suggest it also takes into account distance traveled as well.
Definitely all the stuff that no sane person would ever dare to do without a computer.

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Or tons of counters and chits that really wreck the look of a nice miniatures table.

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plus the ever present danger of forgetting to move the counter with the correct unit.
Something as basic as the pin markers in Bolt-action could never be forgotten.

And more importantly … it acts as an impartial referee’ that doesn’t forget the rules so even beginners can use all the rules from day 1. As a result you can focus on learning strategy and tactics that match the setting.

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http://carnageandgloryii.com/index.htm

I must admit that a computer assisted game sounded a lot more interesting until Google gave me the link.
Surely someone must have made a more modern version ?

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It does what it needs to do

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Well it does look a bit dated (looks like it did back in the 90s), but does it really need an iPad style GUI?

Was wondering how well it might run on a tablet (couldn’t see in the video exactly what they were using), but dated looks aside it’s definitely worth a look as the computer moderated rulesets have given me some of the best games over the years. They really come into their own with bigger games/refights as well.

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It may not ‘need’ to look good (or a super sexy UI), but such things point to a lack of maintenance of the software.
And that may become a problem when (not if) Microsoft decides to kill support for whatever ancient features this product is using.

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Yep, I did note on the website it supports Windows 7 (which is not a good sign), but these programs are usually so basic (most of the work is in the databases) that new operating systems don’t tend to effect them too much. The problem with rules like Carnage and Glory is that they are usually a one man show operated out of the spare bedroom (and they are a niche within a niche within a niche product). I think the fact it’s there at the show today does indicate it’s working with modern operating systems (I need to check… Read more »

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I understand the problems of the one man hobby projects. I had one myself.

I do think that as a concept computer assisted gaming is great, but I think it never got any where because no one knew how to sell the concept in a crowded market that has lots of shiny products with a more instant return of investment

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I played carnage and glory once. Very impressed. If you can get over the no dice rolling. Computer strategies in Australia do some good game management software as well

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This game is coming highly recommended from not one but several people I know really know this stuff and care about the same game features I care about. I’ll have to look into it more closely.

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ghent99

Great pictures.

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Thanks, @Ghent99 ! It’s easy to take great photos when the tables like this awesome!!

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I had no idea this system was still available. I used to play a lot of the Computer Moderated rules for Naps, and it’s definitely the BEST way to go if you can stand dealing with the IT and printing. IT’s excellent to play a set of rules where you know the tactics of the day, but you can’t access “how” exactly the rules work (thus taking away a lot of the RAW arguments and brinksmanship). It was popular in the 90s, but then seemed to fall away, but I’ll be along to their website to have a look later… Read more »

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Looked popular today. It had four tables I think going and they were all full (6-10 people per table) all day.

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warhammergrimace

interesting, at least all the paper work is removed via the laptop

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Some printed out Order of Battle were the only paperwork I saw. But they weren’t using them to track damage or morale or anything like that.

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the numbers are used to identify units within the software.
That is about the only thing I could understand from the few screenshots on the carnage&glory website.
I’d assume that the software tells you when/if you need to add a marker of some kind.

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From the one time I played at it was many years ago each unit has a number that identifies it in the software. If you wanted to know the full status of the unit you had to send an aide in person to the unit to see what it’s status is. Other wise the troops look fine until they take s lot of damage or run away. I might be mixing some of these features up with the Computer Strategies games which I think now run Microsoft Visual studio instead of visual basic which is being retired

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The only thing we wanted from our rules would have been the ability to use multiple computers in big games for keying in the data. The bottleneck of one PC became a problem when we were playing refights with 40-50 units a side (mind you that size of game doesn’t move fast with pen and paper rule sets). It’s the fog of war aspect that really comes into it’s own, plus the ability for sub commanders to “do their own thing” like refuse an order to changing their own orders (and acting on their own initiative). One extreme example was… Read more »

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That is a really cool aspect as it really puts players in the shoes of a general.

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dominican40k

not removing models also helps or may hinder the player too

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There are two schools of thought on this among formation-based games, I’ve played both and enjoy both for what they offer. Removing figs from formations shows immediate gratification for the shooter, immediate tension for the owner, presents a visual picture of the status of the unit and the overall situation on the field. It’s just not very realistic. Keeping the figures on the formation and tracking some kid of morale or damage or casualty rating … is more realistic. In a 20-figure battalion, each figure represents 10, 50, or 100 men. Men are being hit from ALL the figures, especially… Read more »

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zorg

Great tables shame you missed the FORTH.

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skodamarine

Love!y looking tables.

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coachjose59

40mm wow! It must take some serious time, to paint any sizable force at that scale!

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Yeah, the ECW table I think was one of the 40mm tables:

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longshotte

I was hoping to go this year. it is really great that you guys are there covering it. Maybe next year.

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We’d love to see you! 😀

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http://www.wargamingmachines.org/ActiveSite.htm

I have found this set of operational level WW2 games

Best of all it’s FREE, so perhaps you might want to give it a try 🙂

Also they have a links page for other programs out there

http://www.compassistwargames.com/links.htm

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@phaidknott. I was looking at that site last week. Although I don’t like TMP they do have an interesting Computer moderated rules thread

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Almost all of the links of that last website are 404 results.
The few that work result in websites that date back the prehistoric era of internet. 🙁

I know “looks aren’t everything”, but I can’t help but feel like the very idea of ‘computer assisted wargaming’ is dead …

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I think you’re mostly right, although there still a few diehards about. It’s a great shame as I has given me and my old Wargaming group some of the best games we’ve ever had. I’ve remembered the name of the UK developed rules “Follow The Eagle”, after a bit of research it looks like it was still up for sale in 2009 for the PC (I would dearly love to get my hands on a copy). It’s hard to describe to someone how these games play out, the fog of war, the lack of information, and knowing exactly how the… Read more »

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somegeezer

Not just easier but can cover more detail without turning the game into a maths lecture. It’s a good development.

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