Weekender XLBS: Creating The Perfect Escalation League; Your Feedback & More!
March 25, 2018 by warzan
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First? If so, Yeah! 😀
Nice 🙂 …. congratulations on your “firstness”
AAAAGGGHH!! Sniped again 🙁 😉 🙂 🙂
Second is the first Loser 😛 *joking* Happy Sunday to you
Or the ‘first runner up’ as I’ve seen it written.
…. far too nice that particualr phrasing 😀
Happy Sunday!!!!!1!!!!one!!!!!
Happy Sunday, all. Almost 1:00 AM here. Super tired, heading to bed. Will watch this with morning coffee! 😀
Happy Sunday folks. my Star Wars Legion arrived so I’ll be painting some Saga while I watch. 😉
as far as points go the tournament level is 800 points, but the downloadable full rules give the army composition changes for playing at 1600 pts on a 6×4…or proper wargame as we like to call it
oh and @warzan they announced Han Solo and Rebel Commandos on Friday for your full Endor games….the Commando box includes a Mon Calamari..watch out Solo it’s a traaaaaaaaaaaaaaaap!
6×4?.. Dream big!. 8×5 minimum. How well I remember the days of scouting the for sale ads for unwanted and surprisingly cheap table tennis tables and wondering if there was some way of fitting into my Skoda to get it home
doesn’t it take forever to play 2mm on an 8×5 😉
No it just means you get more to play with! 😉
Happy Sunday everyone.
I think keeping interest and your hobby moving along while playing escalation is tough these days with most people having limited time. I wonder if taking something that works in computer games and applying it to our hobby would work.
Achievement bonuses are common in many computer games now. If you put a list together of achievements before the league started that give bonuses or add to your force you could help maintain league interest and motivate people’s hobby. Using the lock mechanisms Warren talked about and allowing to only unlock a certain number of achievements during each part/stage of the league/campaign. The achievements could reflect all aspects of the hobby as wide or as narrow as your community wishes. Just a couple of examples would be:-
Achievements List
Army Synopsis – Unlock army special rule or item.
Unit Synopsis – Unlock unit special rule or item.
Character Synopsis – Unlock character special rule or item.
All units start at their base size (e.g. 5-10 model unit starts at 5).
Base colour you army – Unlock an extra unit model slot. (Using the example above of 5-10 you can now pay the points for up to 6 models instead of 5)
Three colour your unit – Unlock an extra unit model slot.
Highlight your unit – Unlock an extra unit model slot.
Base your unit – Unlock an extra unit model slot.
These could be tailored to meet each units requirements as the unit sizes vary between different forces or types.
You can obviously carry this on to all aspects of the hobby and only be able to do a certain amount of unlocks per league phase. This then adds another layer of strategy too as you try to decide which of the achievements to go for first.
Those with limited time or funds will have a number of options to buff their force on those weeks they are unable to put in a lot of time or money allowing them to spread to cost or build time over more days/weeks while still growing their force.
wouldnt be hard to use the achievement system we use on warconsole for that, but would require some eyes to verify colour results etc.
Ref the Juggernaught @warzan : one shows up at the start of Rogue One transporting Jyn Erso to her days labour on the Imperial prison planet she is being held on. I don’t believe one appears in Rebels @dracs , but those retired Clone Troopers did use one of the Grand Army of the Republics AT-RT walkers, before upgrading to a captured AT-AT 😉
Basically, go watch Rebels. And Clone Wars. They’re great 😉
Happy Sunday!!
1 Luke, 30 rebel troopers, 2 AT-RTs, and a T-47 ready for priming… so today’s hobby is sorted!
Happy Sunday all!
Good show, as always…
The tail of four gamers / escalation league thing is very interesting, and I’d love to have a go at joining one for 40k or even maybe AoS. Perhaps its something we could sort out say for a once a month at the club @warzan ?
Again for me narrative side is always more interesting, love the idea of building an army bit by bit and learning it as I go, the adding a bit each month allows for me to keep on top of it painting wise and at the end … I have a fully painted force I have a reasonable idea how to use! (in theory)
Those Star Wars figures look really well painted! I do love Star Wars, but I’ve not looked into Legion as well I’m invested in 40k so another system isnt something I’m keen on.
Cant wait to see your tables built though! They will look amazing!
Also @warzan I think you want to track down a copy of the old WEG Star Wars RPG Rebel Specforce Sourcebook. It’s loaded with detail on Rebel special forces units & bases, and the forces of the Imperial Army (those dudes piloting the AT-ST’s), the Imperial Navy, Imperial Security Bureau, & the Storm Trooper Legions (Storm Commandos, Rad Troopers, Sea Troopers, Sand Troopers and more). Oh, and a whole mess of transports and armoured vehicles….
The old Rebel Alliance and Imperial sourcebook are pretty much required reading for anyone Keen to geek out on Star Wars.
Happy sunday,@avernos better get a move on with the saga as i am sure lloyd will want a game of saga II ?
@warzan are you reliving your youth(soooo long ago) with the star wars leigon stuff.
Dont forget your kids as i am sure they want to play with the star wars toys as dad is so excited about them. That 20% discount is going to take a hammering lol
we’ve played a couple already, the first learning game was interesting as we were both learning the boards. For the second game I played the Irish and @lloyd swapped to Byzzies, I got stomped on. Not sure how to make the Irish work, need to do more testing, at the moment they’re a glass hammer without the hammer aspect.
My Revell X-Wing didn’t survive quite so intact..
I found a quick repaint was just that bit better. I am sure John’s level of weathering may be just fine though.
I also picked up the TIE equivalent model. The scale of that one (despite being labelled as the same – both supposedly 1:57 if memory serves). It suffered a similar fate!
https://www.instagram.com/p/BguWf2hgQh_/
Ohhhh lovely job! They look ace!
My Revell X-Wing didn’t survive quite so intact..
I found a quick repaint was just that bit better. I am sure John’s level of weathering may be just fine though.
I also picked up the TIE equivalent model. The scale of that one (despite being labelled as the same – both supposedly 1:57 if memory serves) is better – spot on in fact. It suffered a similar fate though!
https://www.instagram.com/p/BguWf2hgQh_/
In the Rebels Cartoon, the clones including Captain Rex live in this AT-TE
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/All_Terrain_Tactical_Enforcer
You can one of those on the same scale as the AT-AT on eBay.
For a game based on a rebel base could you do something like space hulk and have the players playing the Imperials and the rebels moving like the genestealers with random blips like in the original game ie run by the umpire
Happy Sunday! I got so much Star Wars Legion painted while watching.
I’m off to hunting those Revell kits now.
hard not to find those revell kits, but they are a scale onto their own…
Revell also do a 1:40 ARC-170 that looks pretty good scale wise, and it makes a great objective for Legion. Imagine a Jedi being pursued by the Empire through the Dandoran system in the months after the end of the Revenge of the Sith. He shakes off most of his pursuers but neither the Jedi nor the Clone pilots pursuing him are ever seen again and their fate is unknown;
A few years later, a transport pilot logs seeing what he thought was an ARC-170 hidden in some old ruins on Dandoran and it doesn’t take long for both the Rebels and the Empire to learn of this rumour. The Rebels want the ARC-170, a heavy fighter no longer in production and prized by the Rebellion at a time when the X-Wings were not yet in production.. but both want to access the flight logs from the ARC to determine if the Jedi’s star fighter was destroyed – the Rebels want to track down the Jedi if he is still alive, while Darth Vader obviously has a personal interest in hunting down any Jedi who survived Order 66..
Is that a lookout on your Juggernaut or are you just pleased to see me?
Just to mention about the Infinity escalation league discussed in my comment; there are scenarios (unofficial Recon), loot tables (N3 rules), guidance on xp rewards etc. in various places and that part of the fun was blending these different resources into a format that worked well for the particular group. That said, Infinity was a system that had the flexibility to build on – it won’t work with every system.
As mentioned, there was an RPG aspect in terms of a storyline and developing a few characters. Locks are easy to have in terms of permitted unit types, but then the fact that round 4 needed hackers to gain objectives, then round 5 allowed Heavy Infantry which opened up more aggressive hacking options allowed the group to focus on subsets of what is to many a daunting ruleset and learning curve.
@warzan I had a random idea when you mntioned kidnapping community members. Crowdsource your hobby. Next time you want to build a BoW army from scratch you could put a call out to the community for volunteers to head down to their FLGS and pick up models you assign to us. We then paint them and base them to the scheme of your choosing and then post them in to you. You could get a full army fully painted in a month ready for an event AND have John slaving away on either a centerpiece or a whole second army. This would give you a true BoW army. Given the price of models and postage I’d imagine people would appreciate their costs being discounted off their next backstage pass renewal or something. You might even be able to do a deal with a manufacturer to ship the items to people as part of a bulk order or something. You could pick and choose your painters from the volunteers, or make it invite only. You could run vlogs of everything arriving. There could be a community hobby log forum post you could dip in and out of for a video series. It could be a lot of fun and a huge community event, especially if this was leading up to some event, like the Prague Open. I believe charity events do this to assemble painted armies as prizes. I don’t know if the BoW community has enough painters in it at a desireable standard who would welcome adding a unit to their painting queue for you, but its an interesting thought.
Or you could just try the BoW Hobby Sweatshop Bootcamp? I know I couldn’t get much from sprue to finished in just a weekend though.
Haha! That really made my day, thanks guys. When I took the pics I did think ‘oh, remember Lloyd likes the backs’ so i spun them round. Gave me a real laugh when you started calling him in, and he actually arrived, then the pic of the backs showed up lol. Any time I’m giving myself a hard time over the hobby I’m going to replay this moment. Happy Sunday!
I love it when you bullshit, that is what this show is about for me.
I would be a smart move to start at a low point for tournaments armies and then rising it when more is released.
Interested by Warzan’s comment early on re polycement on star wars legion miniatures. I was led to believe this glue wouldn’t work on the star wars miniatures, which is leaving me with the difficult decision about whether to let my kids loose with super glue. Has anyone tried polycement? What was your experience?
the Legion models are two different types, the infantry require superglue as they’re a pvc type of plastic. The vehicles are abs hard plastic and polycement does the job. In short you’ll need both, or at the least superglue
Fab, thanks for clarifying @avernos 🙂
Happy Sunday all.
I agree with Sam’s point of gradually adding game rules over a couple of play throughs.
I use this method when getting new players to learn Dust 1947.
I find it helps avoid that ‘I’m overwhelmed’ feeling that everyone (myself included) gets when facing a new game.
Ignore them Justin – your Jar Jar impression is pretty good!
I actually agree with this! 😀
I thought so too, to me it was bang on!
@warzan what is an Escalation League in short.
@warzan I wrote the escalation rules for Warzone in case there is anything useful you can borrow or learn from it (http://prodosgames.com/sites/prodosgames.com/files/files/Warzone_2_2_Corporate_Warbook.pdf) p62 – p67, though it was heavily influenced by my positive experience with the Warmahordes Journeyman Escalation rules.
@warzan — written description of the Hovercraft in star wars can be found in the
A Guide to the Star Wars Universe
Imperial Sourcebook, Second Edition
Star Wars Miniatures Battles Companion
There is an epic battle in Han Solo’s Revenge
However, if you want to kit bash a nice place to start that would be to proper scale is to find the G.I Joe hovercraft (example: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-GI-Joe-Killer-Whale-Hovercraft-Vehicle-1984-With-Cutter-Figure-and-card/142725588600?hash=item213b1ba678:g:JksAAOSwRQxaVHxP)
I don’t suppose you could tell me what is says mate I don’t have access to that book
@warzan , if you are seeking possible locations in the Star Wars universe for table layout inspiration, I would highly recommend looking at the EA video game Battlefront II.
If you don’t fancy playing the campaign game, there are lots of play throughs on You Tube.
From memory you get to see inside both Rebel and Imperial ships, an Imperial factory, outside on Jaku.
Rogue One also has scenes from Yavin IV, as does the TV show Rebels in its later seasons. I believe the train station location at the bottom of the Imperial Communication Centre on Scarif was filmed at Canary Wharf.
The stormtroopers on scarif, rogue one , are shoretrooprs, the ones with the skirts are squad sargeants.
Sandtrooper have a large backpack
I’m looking at some of the Revell model kits for Star Wars, the Snow speeder is 1/52 scale which is pribably a little big, but on ebay they go for £8-10.
I have a bunch of those Snowspeeders and sadly they are too small. They are in fact smaller than the WotC Snowspeeders which are smaller than the FFG ones.
I love the Star Wars beach invasion idea. I’m thinking a large scale commando party. The scenarios would be to overcome a “death ray” or “shield” so the main assault force can follow-up. The defender has to set-up first, but I’d allow limited hidden forces and then the commando force picks its point or points of arrival. The commandos are against the clock. Whatever has to be destroyed has to be accomplished in time for the main force arrival. If there were multiple possible objectives, the defender would also have to apply tactics with flexibility unsure what the commando’s intention is.
Another scenario allows the invader to have “overwhelming force” on turn one, but the defender defends in depth with reserves arriving which ultimatly will overwhelm the attackers. This requires a careful balance of forces. This works well with a snatch and grab objective.
Great show, thanks.
For escalation leagues, I think the template GW have layed out is a great example. If you grab the Skirmish book it has a narrative campaign and points to build a small warband that grows through the campaign awarding points to each player to spend depending on the results, you can follow that on to the Path to Glory book which again leads you through some narrative games and you can build on your collection to form more of an army and get ready for open play. If you couple that idea with what they are doing now with Malign Portents it would be very interesting. So as you grow your army your games are also forming the future narrative for the league depending on certain outcomes and choices you make based on the story options your given. So as well as bringing the next bit of narrative and allowing you to build your army, the outcomes from previous games might lead to new rules or settings. Like a new scenery type shows up (maybe a huge crater or strange stone structures appear) and effect gameplay in some manner. Maybe even entire scenarios are created, maybe the armies are pulled into another realm, rules for that realm could then effect gameplay good and bad and everyone has access to/is effected by the new rules. Like in Malign Portents, once it is over it doesn’t mean you can’t revisit that world. You can always decide to revisit that realm and impose those rules again and give the outcome from the league a sense of permanence. For example, if I decide to set a game of AoS in Shyish, I can apply the rules that have came out of the Malign Portents campaign so far, other rules can be included if your army contains certain keywords etc.
That X wing looks pretty good for scale . I think it’s the thick bases on the Legion figures that make them look too big . Those bases make my Rebels the same height as my old Space Marines . I’m thinking of putting them on the thin lipped bases I’ve got left over from my Bolt Action troops and then adding some ground scatter and a few of those GW plastic Barbed Bracken plants to give it an alien planet feel
I can’t wait for a Star Wars Legion Scum and Villainy faction. I predict a Jabba’s Goons’ Skiff vehicle and a GW Cease and Desist letter alleging infringement of their Dark Eldar Raider design.
OK, just got to minute 57, and thanks for the golden button guys. Much appreciated!
Wow!!! Great weekender XLBS! I enjoy all of them, but this one was a stand out. ‘Must see TV” as they say.
The excitement of everyone about their hobby and the good discussions….well it’s the kind of thing that made me become a backstage member several years ago.
https://www.google.com/search?q=TIE+CRAWLER+MINIATURE&rlz=1C1JZAP_enUS745US745&tbm=isch&source=iu&ictx=1&fir=aoqsyPPwGz0vjM%253A%252CYadqxOm7ARzixM%252C_&usg=__Kyw2Jq7HvVld9Iz85myynhkm6Wc%3D&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjjgtrWsYjaAhVFba0KHY6MCVsQ9QEIUjAD#imgrc=APcEv0ND-HC-eM:
I picked a couple of these for $3 apiece. Perfect scale for legion figures
Warren there are landing craft type things at the beginning of the force awakens, maybe pop a look at them. Another great weekender guys
great XLBS guys loved the SW vehicles your picked up guys.
Happy Sunday!
On escalation leagues and the one I got the mention for – SFG’s Rookie League, I assume you’ve seen it now has new minis of the actual rookies available to buy, so it can be run by any club/group?
And that Slave One you were talking about, did you mean the Kenner/Palitoy one of the 80s? I’m fairly sure I still have that and the carbonite Han Solo back in my parents loft. It may just be childhood memories but I thought it was quite a bit bigger than what i’d expect for Legion scale.
@warzan can I suggest the GI-joe Whale or the Cobra Fang boat for your landing craft
I don’t know why, so can someone tell me why the xlbs won’t work on my phone. Everthing else plays ok but the xlbs won’t ive not been able to watch the last 3 week xlbs episodes and the last one I saw will not play either now. Like I said all the rest is okay many thanks…
Can you let us know what phone you are using and what the problem is exactly?
It won’t play as in
1) you don’t see the video or a play button
2) you see a play button but nothing happens when you press it
3) it buffers and stops and starts and is hard to watch
If it’s number three click the little cog wheel when you are watching the video and choose either the 520 setting or the 320 setting 🙂
Its that there is no play button showing on screen. Yet the weekender has a play uttonwhich works whentouched?..
Didn’t Rogue One show a Juggernaut being used as a prisoner tranport vehicle?
Hey @warzan A buddy pointed me at this fella blog. He’s on the same vehicle adventure as you. He has a few posts about it. Thought it might be useful? My Buddy has just bought a Rogue 1 U-Wing. Will look the business!
https://blacksixredseven.blogspot.co.uk/2018/01/boss-shop-star-wars-legion-terrain.html
Excellent stuff as always! I also built an actual single person hovercraft in exactly the same way! I didn’t take it over water either, I especially liked getting high from the fibreglass catalyst! …..Ah happy days! Oh and Justin…you said something…I can’t remember what it was….but I totally agreed with you!
When you’re right you’re right I guess? You guys should do an escalation type event! Help us poor unsociable bastards who work weird hours in weird places! The WAYPN forum and various hobby streams are great for that ‘community feel’ and it would be the perfect place for a BOW escalation type event! You could call it the BOW ESCALATOR…….OF DOOM! (I also have a habit of adding ‘OF DOOM’ to pretty much everything….House of Doom, Kettle of Doom, sweet innocent kitten….of Doom etc!)
I have an idea of a “toy” for your hovercraft conversion. It might be a bit hard to find. It’s from the old wizkids mechwarrior line. It’s a Aurora class dropship.
Escalation leagues are the best way to build a play group around a new game.
Over the last 25 years I have run many such leagues for many gaming systems.
Remember some key points.
You are trying to attract new players to the system. This will be done by pulling together people
who have different interests (love of the theme, love of that style game etc) and levels of gaming experience into a pool of players. The focus of the league should be fun not competition.
The number one killer of any league is the power gamer. Its like letting lose a wolf into a heard of sheep. A suggestion for maintaining balance, points are awarded for showing up and playing your game. You forces painted in time for you match. Extra points if you played in a demo game prior to your first match to help get you as a new player get up to speed for your first league game. If you are an experienced player, you get points for teaching a demo game
to someone new. At the end of a match you can award points to your appoint if he showed good sportsmanship. Winning means nothing.
Set a start point for the league. Depending on the game it could be a starter boxed army or X number of points in the system.
League meets once a week. Some are building, painting nights. Demo nights. Remember your building a gaming community. Keep interest up keep, it fun. First league game say starts in week three. They players get paired up and they play their game that week based on their own schedules. They email the results and what sportsmanship point were awarded to the GM by end of week.
All the games are objective based. Helps promote balanced armies. Helps slow down the power players.
You add points every few weeks and allow time to build and paint them before they start playing games at the new point level.
Run time three months.
I can go on for pages. just some quick thoughts.
I have to agree and disagree with @warzan on this episode.
First of. Yeah Rogue One was one of the finest Star Wars movies. I love it.
Secondly I agree that Star Wars should be a Sand Box (with contraints I admit) in which everybody can let their creativity flow. Like creating new vehicles, new planets, new races and armies even. And don’t fear. I read a lot of Star Wars books durind the 90s and 2000s and a few authors invented REALLY CRAPPY SHIT.
So a s long as you try to make it feel Star Wars it will be alright. Like having hover lifts as a given. And the ragged down look of the outer rims. Or the tight technological look of the Imperium. Or the Ancient Seafarer look of the Hapan Cluster. But for example something like the Minbari Ships from Babylon 5 would look much out of place in Star Wars.
So a landing hovercraft is an awesome idea. Also patches in to your idea not knowing who the bad guys in Star Wars are. As the guys from Saving Private Ryan (supposedly) were the Good Guys. And your Stormtroopers landing on the Beach would take their role.
I have to disagree on the Legion Army size. I think the game and it’s rules (activation, model count, model size, command cards) is just tailored around the size of 800-1000. And I think it will stay mainly there. They did it with X-Wing (100 points). They did it with Armada (360 I think?). They did with Imperial Assault (40 skirmish points). And they always stayed with that size and most tournaments did too. Because FFG organises like national and global championships with that size, so a lot of tournament organisers will stick with those 800 points. Yes they released rules now for 1600 points, but they did similar things with their other SW games (like 4 player Imperial Assault Skirmish), but to my knowledge nothing has taken foot in the tournament scene. Don’t get me wrong. I still think people (including me) will play much bigger games. I just don’t think it’s what the game designers had at heart. That’s why I always hoped they go 15mm or even smaller. Because a smaller game (in scale) has much bigger battles in mind.
Lastly one of the most iconic shapes of Star Wars for me is the LAAT Gunship ( http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Low_Altitude_Assault_Transport/infantry ). It’s just so cool. For a large portion due to the fact that it mimics the movement of a helicopter. Putting the nose up to slow down and then land. Having the nose down while taking of. And the clones coming out of it with all their individualized armor and weapons charging for cover. It’s just like vietnam. With Samurais leading them 😀 Would have loved to see Legion go Clone Wars first. With the Wookie, Gungan, Droid, Clone, etc. armies it would have been much more colorful. But probably not as iconic for people who have only seen the movies and not the clone wars series.
Happy tuesday, I guess 🙂
Warzan, lol the American Marines have one, also think are Marines use one too,.
Big enough for large units and vehicles.
Great show as always. And YEEEEES I made into the weekender. I feel honored. Loving been a BoW member 😀
@warzan, you might want to check out this as a basis for your hover landing vehicle. I saw this one at the Imperial Terrain booth at AdeptiCon over the weekend:
https://imperialterrain.com/collections/sci-fi-rpg-tabletop-terrain/products/tx225-legion
A belated Happy Sunday! wonderful and thought-provoking episode as ever.
Loving all the Star Wars stuff, keep it up!
So I’m way behind on my weekenders, just got this one complete.
Totally agree with Escalation league having a narrative aspect, that and learning a game (if it’s new) are paramount. Don’t mind some competitive nature but think it should be more like the chit idea or like Justin said and focused on a reward that feeds ones strength or what they won for. Great weekender!
Happy Sunday behind one Sunday!
Yeah, I’m a bit behind (as always). All this moving houses, is eating away my time and space. But I’m (religiously, fanatically?) watching everything when I find itty bitty loops in the time continuum 🙂
@warzan aaaw thank you. It would be great being kidnapped by you guys and come sit and paint all the time. If it wasn’t for my daughter-critter, I would pull up my tent poles in an instant, and brave the great divide 🙂
Thanks for a great XLBS. Worth every penny and more 🙂