New Rules Leak For Warhammer: Age Of Sigmar – Simple But Cool? [Fluff Update]
June 30, 2015 by brennon
Some new information has leaked surrounding the rules for Warhammer: Age of Sigmar. You can check them out at the link below, offering a snippet of what's going to be coming over the summer. The rules are VERY different before and suddenly you can see why they've just been condensed into four pages...
Additional images have also popped up in greater detail AND there is some more on the actual full rules for the game I actually feel a little bad for Games Workshop that the excitement of the rules coming out this Saturday has been spoiled but I guess that was going to be inevitable. See what you think...
More Images
Full Rules
More Background
We've also had a bit of information drop in considering the background for Age of Sigmar. It's certainly a bit of a change and sounds a little bit like we heard a few weeks ago...
- Nine Mortal Realms exist all based on the Eight Colours of Magic with Chaos being the Ninth.
- Sigmar rules from a realm named Azyrheim. When one of his Stormcast Eternals dies they return there (think Valhalla/Valkyries)
- Four Great Alliances
- Order: Stormcast Eternals, Steamhead Duardin (Dwarfs), Red Slayers (Mercenaries), Aelf (Elves), and Seraphon (Reptilian warriors)
- Chaos: Fully combined army which includes Beastmen, Warriors, Daemons and Skaven
- Death: Undead
- Destruction: Orruks (Orcs) Grots (Goblins) Ogors (Ogres) and other Ravening Beasts.
The Rules
Movement, Shooting, and Combat have all been very much streamlined and things have a lot more abstraction to them than before. It certainly fits into the idea of the game being a skirmish experience. Combat is another of the big changes where battles are fought out in an more mutual way where one opponent chooses a battle then the other until they are all done.
Rules Leak
We don't get any of the real specifics but it certainly makes for some interesting reading. The main bit of text at the start explains that a battle of around 100 models is enough for an evening so THIS is certainly how they see the game going from now on I reckon.
The Models
As well as the rules there were also the models that we spied last week. You can see them in the links below in more leaks from the White Dwarf that will be out this weekend. We've had some discussions about them already but I thought I would add some more thoughts now we've had some time to reflect on them.
Update: Leaked Image of New Sigmarites & Chaos Revealed
More Leaks – Close Ups Of Chaos & Sigmarite Warriors
When it comes to the models I have a few thoughts about them. I actually really like the look of the Sigmarites in their golden armour. I might not like the paint style so much, I would probably paint them to look a little darker, but I think the models are pretty neat.
I particularly like their more 'angelic' looking soldiers at the back and the character atop his demi-dragon type creature.
The Chaos forces...I'm not so sure about. I like the regular barbarian types and the monster at the back but the characters are maybe a little bit too fussy. I think there might be a bit too much 'craziness' to them although I guess they should really have that to match the Sigmarites.
Overall I am quite taken by the new models and I will probably pick up the models from this new set, at the very least, to give the game a go. I'm very interested to see what they do with the rules in the future too.
Will you be giving them a go?
"...THIS is certainly how they see the game going from now on I reckon"
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"I'm very interested to see what they do with the rules in the future too..."
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As long as its fun to play, simple doesn’t bother me.
If its good, its not bad and that good.. I guess
: D
can’t wait to try. I like the idea of a very simple set of rules. Good call from GW, I hope the fluff will be as rich as the Old World was.
Could have just used the LOTR rules, they are great for skirmishes, Note Justin, they are skirmish rules, not battle rules 🙂
LoTR activates by units, not individual models.
Definitely not a Skirmish game like Infinity, Necromunda, etc.., more a battle game, even if it isn’t mass battle.
No it doesn’t, every model is individual, you must be thinking of WoTR. LOTR can, and is played with just a few models aside as per all the original scenarios where you have the Fellowship (9 models) V whatever, but the rules allow you to play with 100 models if you like.
…and is a very good system. Better than W40K or Warhammer. Some really epic scene fight lead by powerful heroes.
I hoped the mankind factions would look more gritty and Dark Ages looking.
These look like blinged up, low tech, Space Marines.
I did enjoy Warhammer as a kid, the polish and quality of the miniatures and books has always been high.
I’m glad they look open to change with the rules.
I like the focus on smaller armies.
It may all be rumours, but I am not tempted to get back into Warhammer with what’s on show so far sadly.
I think those Sigmarites could look pretty good with a red/silver paint job, kinda like Roman legionaries.
I have every confidence these rules and the game will be terrible, random and simple (simple is not the same as elegant).
But, like the end of End Times, there is a glimmer of hope that maybe the entire thing will just work.
________
I don’t buy these are the *actual* rules. I think this game has been rushed out with little play testing (which I believe happened 2 months ago) – and you’re getting a released Beta ruleset basically.
I fully expect a larger set of rules to be released at some point which you will buy. The only reason this hasn’t happened is because GW are unsure of the rules themselves and don’t want to release a to-buy rulebook that will cause anger when it’s promptly given a new edition this Christmas/2016. So they’re giving the “rules” away for free to test the water and get feedback – without any risk. If they bring up updated rules in hard back in Christmas you are not in a position to complain ’cause the rules were free!
For me I still hope that it does scale up nicely. There’s too many skirmish games out right now (most which are good as they’ve been around for awhile) so I still want this to be big battles with lots of models!
The rules themselves, what we can see of them, sound like it can work. We all now how big and bloated 40k is and this is starting right back at the basics. That said need to see the “warscrolls” they talk about before my final impression.
I will be giving it a go at my local GW store this weekend, if the rules are going to be given out for then.
You’ll note you get a bonus in terms of Bravery for every 10 men you have in the unit.
You don’t have not “not” have your troops in ranked units either? Unless I missed something. And maybe certain weapons get extra bonuses when the unit is ranked – such as spears. And these details will be on the battle scrolls.
I think i’m gonna like the rules for the most part but I will have to play them to make sure. I’m a little worried when it comes to the removing models part. Also not a fan of the random charges but glade that if you fail you won’t move at all. Otherwise I like them. Want to play first to make sure they are fun.
Really looking forward to see what they do with the rest of the stuff model wise. The current models they have look good to me. I have to admit though I thin GW copied the angels from Mantic. Otherwise I want to paint up the Sigmar guys (Guess they are now called the Stormcast Eternals according to the rumors). I would have to ponder on the armor color a bit but I know on the shields I would paint them like a night sky with stars and things like that all over them. Maybe even a few small comets and planets here and there. It’s gonna be very interesting to me to see what else they make for this new Warhammer.
As long as it’s fun, I’ll give it a go. And if I can run a combined Warriors, Daemons, Beastmen, and Skaven army (of Nurgle) I’m in. Definitely keen on the idea of not having to purchase half a dozen rule books again.
Hopefully FW/WF will have rules for all my Chaos Dwarfs and Tamurkhan stuff, that would be even better (wishful thinking, I know).
That’s why we play with toy soldiers, to have fun, that’s it.
I believe that 4 page game can be fun, and that’s why I’m considering picking up AoS, and giving it a try with my son.
I think you’ll find most find “fun” as into playing a game of skill and tactics and trying to win – like playing chess etc.
I think very few have “fun” playing a game where you’re 50% less likely to win the game from turn 1 because you drew 3 unlucky strategy cards by chance, and your opponent drew 3 favorable ones via chance…
You seem to be ruling out a significant amount of games being fun due to there being an element of luck involved.
And there has certainly been made a case that the current version of chess is far from perfect.
I am not ruling that out – luck is a good part of the game and inherent to all dice based games.
You didn’t understand what I mean, which is probably my fault – chess is an example, but pick most games, and sports if you like. Or indeed plenty of other miniature games which don’t kick the ground from under you by chance on turn 1. The point being we want to fairly enter a game of skill and that is significant. Yeah, there’s narrative, and just enjoyment from getting the models out. But we don’t want to lose an entire unit in turn 1 because of some silly dice rolls which were out of our control…
I’m all for luck in a game. And, with the people that I game with if we look at a game and get to a point where we know exactly how it will end we’ll just stop. Or restart (obviously winners and losers are declared).
I don’t know, to me, I define “fun” as enjoyment. I like modelling (I model all sorts of model kits in addition to minis games), I like painting, and I like playing games. I also like playing games with people who like playing games. I’m not into competitive gaming, and I’m not into gaming with people who don’t have fun if they lose a game.
I try and build lists (whether for table top, or something like M:tG) so that if one thing fails (like a single unit dying in turn 1) I have other options, in the event that luck isn’t on my side. I guess that’s part of the having strategy skills.
I like your analogy of chess @poosh . And as you so eloquently stated earlier, simple rules should not be confused with elegant rules.
There was never any meat to the WFB or 40k rules, just random movement, random events, and pushing trays of models at each other. If the new rules are even simpler, my dog could play. I need more tactical depth, or I just get bored and walk away.
For me, a game needs to be an accurate simulation of a historic event, or a recreation of a universe that is at least plausible and possible, with realistic movement, command, weapons and their effectiveness/range, and morale. If a rules set needs to be a bit more complex to capture something approaching realism, and I use the term loosely, I’m good with that. For me, GW’s rules never ticked any of those boxes.
As for the “free” rules, I’m sure they’re using their patsy’s (us) as playtesters, and there will be a three-volume glitzy $200 rules set produced within the next year, which will be superseded the following year. Still, since they’re there, I’ll read them, and if they promise to be something more than checkers, I’ll play a test game with the mini’s I have.
There must be more groceries in the new universe, as most of the models look thicker. The Sigmar troops are like a 10-year-old’s vision of a knight: if armour is good, huge amounts of armour is even better. Having said that, I like the masks of the Sigmar fellows, and might buy them as bits to mount on a body that doesn’t look quite so ridiculous.
The Chaos guys just look like the old ones imo, but will likely be twice the price.
I am loving the lotr activation sequence, always loved not knowing who was going next. Like what I am seeing with the battle sequence being alternate activations.
On the whole I like what in am seeing and it has me wanting to get this weeks WD !
I definitely think its worth a go. The Chaos models do look a bit OTT but could be good to play with as an intro army for the game. Also the sigmar troops may be better with a different colour scheme – silver armour could be a good option.
How much you guys reckon the box set will cost? (probably won’t bother buying it, just curious as to estimations)
Would imagine around the $100 mark maybe – so probably around £70? Just a rough guess.
BoW Ben
Well isn’t Dark Vengeance currently £65? I wouldn’t expect it to be much higher than that.
Here’s hoping. Whatever price it is I’m probably pre-ordering haha
BoW Ben
Apparently £75, and you must really like the models @brennon
I kinda do @dags – I really like the Sigmarites even though some of the Chaos models aren’t that inspiring a prospect.
It will cost 125$ according to the leaks.
As a first point GW should be applauded for free rules and going to rules with units. Its a smart move forward and long overdue.
However from what I have seen it is way too early to be making a judgement on the rules.
Need to see the full rules and a range of the unit rules. The lack of points will work if a careful and considered rebalancing has been done – and is maintained going forward.
Personally I am looking for options within the rules that rewards maneuvering and provides meaningful tactical options. I would also like to see if this works for massed battle – providing at least a good system.
If not needs to be an excellent skirmish system
Come the weekend we will know if this simplistic or elegant, and if their is any balance within the game. Although I hope it atleast makes me want to play through to see what kind of beast it is.
While nothing having a point cost is a slight worry I really hope they have some force construction rules even if its just something along the lines of you need X number of base troops to get and elite and x number of elites before you can have a legendary character.
Otherwise this game is going to get over powered real quick
With only 4 pages of rules I’m inclined to believe that’s in the Warscrolls, the failure or success of system may lie.
The miniatures is a different beast, looking at the Stormcast Eternals this may be the WoW generation’s miniature game.
AoS a new game for a new generation of wargamers?
@lasse if the look was new and not a port from 40k I might be inclined to agree, its new to fantasy but not really new for GW
Well, I can’t argue with that.
If it is then I really don’t understand anything about anything …
1) WoW players don’t have time to eat let alone paint … model … socialize so they aren’t exactly the ideal target customer
2) Kids around here are crazy about minecraft way more then WoW so the outlandish design of these minis seems off the mark for them (could save you a lot of money on miniature design!)
3) The most successful phenomenon in fantasy right now is GoT/song of Ice and Fire. As we know that one is all about dark, gritty, bloody, no good or evil, main characters die covered in shit etc… And GW does an entire faction of big knights in shinning gold armor … with angel wings
I’m usually terrible at figuring out what people want but come on … aren’t they completely off the mark??????
I’ve had a look at the rules and it’s pretty much GW giving up on Warhammer.
If leaks are to be believed, WH:F made up around 10% of its sales. If you want to get grumpy about it, then really it’s the players that gave up on it.
I don’t see how you can say GW are giving up on Warhammer. They had the whole End of Times cycle, which seemed to sell pretty well, and this is a complete revamp in an attempt to get players back.
If GW “gave up” on Warhammer, then surely they’d just drop it completely, rather then come release a bunch of new models / rules / etc..
Wow you really are a dick aren’t you?
Wait until you read the rules before attacking someone for their opinions.
But, he didn’t attack you, he just stated a counter to your argument, attacking you would be something like calling you a moron, or a dick (which before you get any ideas is NOT what I’m doing here)
@fleetey the players that gave up on it? really? Why do you think the players gave up on it?
The answer is the way it was managed by GW.
Now GW are trying to save it, and I understand ditching it was an option. There is nothing wrong with the willingness to keep the game, but the need to ‘save it’ is due to decisions they made. Sadly its the normal GW problem bad mangement
I’m guessing Warhammer went down the drain because there are better systems and mini’s out there. Fantasy gaming, on the whole, doesn’t appear to be on the decline — quite the contrary.
I don’t believe GW had any choice, WFB wasn’t selling.They need to get new players/collectors, hooked on the game.
Warhammer was selling, it just wasn’t selling as much as 40k, it was selling more than lotr/hobbit.
If they were giving up on Warhammer……I doubt they would be going through all the trouble of a reboot. Everyone has there own opinions but I am with Dave….as long as it is fun….I am in.
They gave up on the rules system, I’ve read the rules and it’s barely a game. It’s pretty much green plastic army men.
I hope they pull this off, would love to have a skirmish game set in the Fantasy universe. Just wish they would throw out them prodo-marines and get something else. Also hope dwarves are still their own thing, or at least that they keep the line going. …Haven’t had my fill of GW dwarf models yet lol.
I´ll take a look and play…
I might proxy with the free rules and if AoS is any good, consider buying some minis to convert into a small force. If the new sculpts are anything to go by, there’s no way in hell I’ll be paying good money for such ugly models. I imagine plenty of old-school WHFB players will rage quit and put their old armies up on eBay before long.
I seriously doubt I’ll go back to Warhammer instead of sticking with Warmachine, but I’ll at least give it a go.
I’m not sure I like the human models, they look to much like space marines for me. I liked the Germanic look of the empire. They could have kept the old figures and just changed the rules for me. Being a Mordheim fan I like the idea of it being skirmish just not sure I like the style.
I’ll be pre ordering.
At first look it does not look too bad. It will be interesting to see how this will catch on.
All (4 pages) of rules and the AoS stuff in next White Dwarf issue has been leaked and can now be found on the net.
Dare, I post the link here?
Otherwise it’s pretty easy to find, just check the AoS rumour thread on DakkaDakka.
Seen em, shame no close ups of the chaos but lets just say the warpscrolls are going to have to have a tonne of info on them to make that playable.
@brennon couldn’t reply above, fair enough – not for me but nice close ups on twitter. Not that i think they make the models look good but you get what I mean hopefully
Ok now we have seen some warpscrolls, I am happy to pass judgement. I know a lot of comments on twitter are saying more coming but at it’s core it is a simplistic game system with no real tactical elements, fairly substantial gaps in the rules. Army building at least at present is an imbalanced mess. The only balancing factor is the sudden death and that is so ease to abuse/deny there is nothing beyond social contract preventing grade 1 asshattery.
Yes you could resolve this with your opponent but why when there are better rules from tonnes of companies. Something even new comers will probably discover in short order.
Orruks? Ogors? Aelf? Oh looky here, cheap letter swaps so they can copyright everything down to the races. I gather it’ll be like with LotR/Hobbit miniatures where there’s a “TM” every other word.
A hundred models isn’t very much skirmish in my book… Ok you can use less, apprently, but the rules snippets suggest they’re gonna be pushing much bigger forces as hard as they can.
I really think it’s high time GW understood that they’d sell more if they enticed people with quality, artistically inspired products, like Wyrd or even Privateer Press (though I personally hate Warmahordes), instead of FotM, power creep and Unbound…
I’ll probably end up giving this a chance… but it looks grim to me.
Nice try GW, but this isn’t Warhammer.
Bwahahaha… okay, now looking at all the leaks on Dakka, no way this is the full on replacement for Fantasy Battles. I don’t care what that rep told your sister’s roommates’ cousin’s uncle, this is the GW battle for young hearts and minds against Warmahordes et al. I realize from several online conversations that most people haven’t a clue about how business works, but throwing fantasy into the fire so they can start focusing on this instead is like Paolo and Battlefront revealing they got into a Twitter fight on purpose and held up production of Dust Babylon for lulz.
“b-b-b-but Warhammer didn’t sell well, GW made a lose”
Seriously thought GW now describes itself as a “Miniature company not a games company” so it doesn’t surprise me that they scrapped the rules in favour of just more models.
This could be true, but I can’t really believe that they would truly not understand the importance of games to their game miniatures. If they really think they’re going to become Precious Moments with battleaxes, I still need more proof before my mind can let me accept it.
“The Most Important Rule
In a game as detailed and wide ranging as WH-AoS, there may be times when you are not sure how exactly to resolve a situation that has come up during play. When this happens have a quick chat with your opponent and apply the solution that makes sense to you both. If no solution presents itself, roll a dice… highest decides what happens”
You know GW doesn’t care when they have rules like this.
(I also don’t think 4 pages counts as detailed and wide ranging, especially considering they described it is simple….)
To be fair that ‘most important rule’ has been present in one form or another since at least 2nd edition on the 40k side so it’s hardly new information if you’re looking for evidence of GW giving up on rules (of which, incidentally, I am far from convinced).
Seems like quite a versatile rule set, really could play a skirmish game with a couple characters a side or a mega battle with 2 huge armies of ranked-up units without changing the turn procedure at all. All the crunchy stuff is going to be on the war scrolls/unit cards, I’d assume they will sell packs of these for the players with existing armies (or maybe a nice App like privateer?).
Dont fancy the starter box box but I’d be willing to pick up some cards to give it a try with my current minis.
The war scrolls/unit cards for existing models will be free on their website come Saturday.
I don’t like the sanguinary guard guys at all. Band I’ll stick to playing 7th or 8th edition and give this a pass. I don’t think this will do well at all.
I’m I the only one who imagines Ronnie rubbing his hands together saying “Well done James, well done”?
Not impressed so far. I agree, they look like space marines, whereas I want medieval looking models. Just got back into WHFB after many years away and now it looks like they are on the brink of sending me away again. 8th ed is OK and I don’t think the rules are the issue – for me it’s the prices and it’s the companies attitude towards the hobby.
Bring back the hobby support, adjust the prices (a little) and the rest will follow. Oh and I would happily have the old WD back too with Fat Bloke as Ed.
I think iwill get it any way and will not paint them as gold armor
i’m holding out hope for th elves. curious, does anyone know if it.s still dark/high or are they rolled into one?
Or if the elves will get all new models as well.
Having been an elf player for years, it’s going to be interesting.
No elves here Aelfs maybe, you should know about existing this Saturday coming
I think it’s brave of GW to go this way with Warhammer. Completely new! Take elements of the last world, the races and what not then turn it all on its head.
Much prefer GW trying something new than simply reskinning 8th, that would be disappointing.
Are they serious? Space Marines in Fantasy? The guys look like the Sanguinary Guard. For me, age of sigmar should look different. A bit wilder perhaps?
The rules intrigue me, but the models so far are meh…I don’t like them at all. They look like. Fantasy space marines… If I want Space Marines I’d play 40k…
Umm kind of feels more like Warmachine crossed with LoTr whilst nothing bad or sad about this it makes Warhammer Fantasy very similar to what you can already get elsewhere. My question, suggestion or possibly fear being have they thrown Baby out with the bath water?
We have more choice then ever over which game to choose not convinced this is a re-invention or are GW now being forced to copy the competition.
I don’t know the exact rules, but the idea of playing with 100 figures per army individually based might be the ‘little omission’ by the designers that kills the game for many.
Seriously, it takes me back to the early 70’s when I and my school friends moved armies of 100s of Airfix Napoleonics around the bedroom. Spent more time moving, and standing them up, then actually gaming. (London Wargames Section Napoleonics IIRC).
Disclaimer: I gave up on GW a long time ago!
My mind is fried. GW are actually trying to do something different? What? I’ll split my comments into good and bad
The Good:
1. Games can be played with low model count, rules are free and warscrolls come with units = low cost of entry.
2. No army books, less heavy rules to lug about
3. Flexible for releases, more like one unit per army releases rather than whole army releases in one go, which COULD improve the meta by dynamically adapting it.
4. Flexible for fluffy players – no real army limitations
5. Excellent for new players, free rules, choose a unit box/starter that looks cool, play.
The Bad:
1. Erm, the rules look spectacularly open. A tournament ruleset this is not!
2. Too many rules encouraging gameyness (Sudden death 1 unit survive rule is clearly nonsense, models within 1″ of each other – stringy hordes much)
3. It will upset the “fantasy” players (go play kings of war, it’s just better)
4. Those sigmarite dudes are a shallow attempt to tell spashe mereen players to try fantasy.
I thoroughly applaud GW for making this step away from some of its nonsense business practices (high cost of entry, masses of purchases to get rules) and honestly think 40k should go the dataslate included with units route. I’m willing to reserve judgement on the rules until I’ve given them a go (for free, well done GW) but they look like a miss to me.
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/content_link/jlKiMIVZpZNulqjO0wHlmyTLzcmmg12WVDH4PwWjsZ4Y06zNsmvKhcBD8MHQus7S?dl=1
I actually think this is a good thing to revitalise the fantasy setting. I am rarely a very early adopter of anything, more due to not having enough hobby time to read rules, make/paint models, plan army lists and actually play the game! Look forward to seeing how the dust settles and this develops over the next few months. In the interim I have a 40k campaign followed by a 60,000 points per side apocalypse game, dzc, whfb 8th, kow and dungeon saga to keep me occupied. Be luck if I’m ready for this by Christmas… by which point it will be clear how this plays. Hmmmmn… Dear Father Christmas…
GW Fantasy? Yes, but not as you know it.
The biggest fantasy is in GW’s collective mind if they think people will soak up this even more ‘GW spikey’ fantasy style minis.
As long as I can use the rules with my old models then fine, even room for a few different Human factions with my pile of unpainted empire plastic.
roll 2d6 on the following table to decide reaction to the leaks:
2. AUTOHATE! Initiate keyboard warrior-troll mode and go ballistic on everywhere I dont get kicked out.
3. God-King is the Emperor of Mankind. Could they be more heavy handed in introducing space marines into fantasy?
4. slightly intrigued. will try it at least once before deciding.
5. actually… this does not seem all that bad. Not what I expected, but still.
6. more interested in making new rules for the old models than the new models.
7. meh. just meh.
8: oh, look, an army of Mordreds! Where is King Arthur then?
9. So this is the rumoured 30k release.
10: AOS: spinning KIngs of War to War Machine.
11: What have they dared do to my beloved warhammer? The sky is falling and I want my mummy!
12. AUTOLOVE! Oh I am so super stoked! This is just the best! need at least one of each.
I laugh at the people who will say this game will be balanced and fair.
Armies based on model mount? Okay field your 40 goblins while I get 40 Bloodthirsters….
Also what worries me is that (take with salt) a GW email revealed that the game wasn’t designed with current miniatures and some units will be made obsolete. After 4 months GW will stop production of current fantasy models in favour for of 35mm scale AoS. So next to AoS minis your current WHF minis will look out of place.
We’ll be using Orcs for Goblins, I guess to keep scale. Heh! Sorry…sorry, Orruks for Grots. Gotta keep with the lingo.
Weird that all day yesterday, I kept getting logged out when I wanted to comment here. Anywho, yeah…I’ll definitely be preordering the Boxed Set, and have already preordered a copy of the next White Dwarf to get the included mini. Seems like an interesting change for Warhammer, and I’m hoping it’ll draw many people in to get the Warhammer Fantasy community strong again.
a lot of upset about 4 page rules, warmachine has a 3 page quick start rules and that worked quite well
@demyse difference being they where well written with tactical options
I’ve read the whole thread with interest. One thing which stands out is the number of people saying that the Sigmarites remind them of space marines.
It’s true, they remind me of space marines too. In fact they remind me of my favourite style of space marines; the ones who have that gothic medieval vibe to their design. So for me it feels like GW first made sci fi minis that look a bit like fantasy miniatures with their space marines and now they have made fantasy miniatures which look like the sci fi miniatures which look like fantasy miniatures. GW have finally closed the circle 🙂
It’s a no from me. I didn’t even get to the point where i was reading the rules, i just took a look at the miniatures.
I am wondering why people arent going to be involved if they think the figures are crap?
Cant you just get the free rules and get figures from elsewhere?, there are plenty of nice figures out there
sadly @torros the rules as they are a poorly written mess, lacking any appreciable depth. Free is about the only price you could put these out without overcharging. Even the pro AoS twitter posters are scratching their heads about issues with it.
There is a lot of sweeping change here, but I can’t help but feel that we still don’t have the full picture, such as how these realms work or how how upgrades and force balance is handled. I think we are seeing snippets of quick start rules here, with the full (seemingly free) rules set yet to come as a download paired with these war scroll things.
While such a radical difference is a shock, I can see the logic behind some of the design choices – in this system, ‘to hit’ rolls represent how deft or unwieldy handling a given weapon is, rather than a roll against an opponents skill, and ‘to wound’ covers how generally effective and well forged a weapon is, rather than a roll against toughness. The toughness of a given creature, the quality of any armour, thickness of any hide, defensive skill at arms in the case of parrying and so on, along with all sundry other forms of resilience, is all covered under the ‘save’ stat. ‘Rending’ reflects the ability of a weapon to pierce armour or hide or strike deep enough to harm a large creature – anything that would bypass defences. And ‘damage’ covers how serious the wounds a weapon inflicts are. These last two can interact to describe a weapon, so a war pick would have a good rend value but perhaps only average damage, doing no more soft tissue damage than your average sword or spear. Conversely, a serrated blade might have a better damage value, since it inflicts heavy bleeding wounds, but wouldn’t be good against armour. A poisoned assassin’s dagger would have a good damage value to reflect both the poison and the wielder knowing exactly where to strike to cause the most damage, and might also have a modest rend value, in this case reflecting the wielder’s skill and knowledge of the weak points of armour rather than a property of the weapon itself.
‘Mortal wounds’ describe something so comprehensively lethal that armour or physical resilience won’t help you, such as artillery fire or powerful magic weaponry, and given the way wound allocation works lets a model equipped with a weapon that causes mortal wounds not only to kill large multiple wound opponents quickly, but also to potentially carve through several lesser rank and file opponents at a time to quickly depopulate an opposing unit in suitably (anti)heroic fashion.
All in all, I get the sense that this rule set draws quite a lot from both Warma-Hordes and the streamlining approach of Kings of War, with an attempt being made to reduce some of the rules clutter that often caused problems in the old Warhammer rules set. Whether this will ultimately work is impossible to say until we see the game in action and get a sense for what direction its future expansion is heading in. So, while we now know more, we are still in wait and see territory, I’m afraid.
I don’t know why everyone is complaining. There will be three new paints released so its not a total loss 😉
Lots of good ideas, but with the usual interference from the corporate management.
The implementation is not as good as we could have expected if the studio staff had been allowed to run with it.IMO.
Look at K.O.W as an example of a rule set where the game designer and the community are allowed to have proper two way communication.They work together to develop a game system the players want , and the game designers can be rightly proud of.
I really wish Tom Kirby would stop pretending he knows best, and let the talented people in the studio get on with things…
isnt Kirby changing to another management position next month? Somewhere i read this.
Hes just decided to change the name of his current positing to “chief puppeteer”, nothing else will change
If there is anyone with talent left that is.. They recruit for attitude alone these days, remember? 😉
“Lots of good ideas” where? Just asking an honest question. It’s certainly gone for simple rather than elegant.
It certainly seems to have moved away from a fantasy simulation of medieval warfare.
I could see a time when more advanced rules are introduced as free supplements in WD,thus hopefully in their eyes increase its circulation at the same time
I’ve read the rules and the leaked warscrolls.
It’s absolutely possible for simple rules that are only a few pages + scenarios to produce a fun and engaging skirmish game. Many indie rules developers have managed to do exactly that!
It looks like Games Workshop, for whatever reason, has failed to do it.
I’m just not impressed. I would recommend that people who are interested in playing fantasy skirmish rulesets with their GW miniatures research Pulp Alley, Songs of Blades and Heroes, or Havoc! (not a complete list, those are just ones I own and can attest to the quality of) as these are solid, simple skirmish rulesets – often with the added benefit of ways to stat your models up yourself to be both balanced and ‘feel right’ for whatever fluff you prefer.
I’m gonna buy it and use them all as proxies for KoW basileans! readressing the balance of the universe and hopefully reversing global warming in the process 😀
I still don’t understand why GW can’t show more flexibility in its approach to sales model. Fine, relaunch WFB. Fine, pull the lines that don’t sell. But why not have one set of rules for the kids, one for intermediate play and one for the tournament players? Why not just make as many people as happy as possible? Thus increasing goodwill (remember that?)and maybe even,dare I say it sales. Right now, burning the fluff, and killing the spirit of warhammer in 4 pages doesn’t just look like a business decision. It looks, (although I’m sure it isn’t ) like an act of spite.
Hey, it would be appreciated if people could e-mail GW’s customer service and ask them to please given ample warning before a miniature or plastic kit is about to be discontinued (and not replaced with an updated kit obviously). As this allows customers time to purchase models they really want and not get a rude surprise when they find their favourite boxes are gone without any warning whatsoever.
Customer Service will pass on this massage to the relevant department, they themselves are just as much in the dark as the rest of us.
GW’s new Lizardmen.
I’ve read the rules, and they’re undeniably terrible.
Even within accepted constraints: a QuickStart rule set limited to four pages, that can be given away for free, so they can’t afford to spend a lot of money and time on producing them.
Taking all that into account these rules are still a joke.
They may as well have just printed their “most important rule” and left it at that. Four blank pages, and a paragraph telling everyone to sort it out among themselves, and roll a D6 if that doesn’t settle it would have been about as much use.
I’m not a hater. I’m not bitter about the loss of WHFB (never played it). I was actually really positive about all the rumours, and considering getting in on the starter set.
Then I saw the models and my enthusiasm waned a little bit. Could have been so much better. Then I saw the rules and I realised the boxed set isn’t actually going to contain a viable game.
I don’t feel sorry for GW because the rules got spoiled early. They could have built up to the release themselves but they insist on stinking to a model that invites rumours and likes.
*leaks
I’m willing to believe that these rules may surprise us all yet (especially if Mr “M” Hewitt has had a hand in them).
The “Sudden Death” rule stops one player taking more than 1/3 as many models as his opponent (read them carefully – its the outnumbered player who gets to choose the victory condition, the other player then chooses a unit for them to kill or whatever. Also the player with the least units chooses who gets 1st turn). It seems that the underdog always has a chance to snatch victory.
The scenarios will likely limit the number of “Warscrolls” players can take. Provided there is some way of balancing crappy infantry like goblins vs good infantry like chaos warriors (or against cavalry, monsters etc) then it shouldn’t be a bad little rule set. Not really going to be a “tournament” rule set but could still be a fun one.
Of course, there is also every chance it will be a complete pack of sh*t and will flop like a kipper. Looking forward to seeing which way it goes.
Downloaded the rules and some of the War Scroll stuff. Interesting that technically Dark Elves are allied with Sigmar and Order, but serve Malerion. And Malus is back!!! 🙂