How 6th Edition 40K Plays! (If this book is real)
January 13, 2012 by warzan
So a erm... 'package' of supposed rules for 40K has been floating around for a couple of days.
In the studio we've been trawling through them to get a feel for what they are about.
Sources have told us that there is some weak denials (calling it a fake) coming from certain massive corners of the industry.
It may well be fake, but we find that harder to believe than it not being a fake because of the volume of work involved.
We know pretty much for certain that 6thED is actually in production at this moment, and the file circulating has a time stamp of May 2011 (easily faked though!).
So authenticity aside how would it play and what is new in this rule set, and even if it is a fake is it a better game?
Watch the vid and draw your own conclusions.
I remember when 5th ED leaked, it was a stage further than this document as a number of the diagrams had made it in. I suppose for me the question is, if its not authentic, then who wrote it - because based on our look over it - you sir are hired! 😉 (But you need an editor mate to tidy up the 'mattwardian' style grammatical errors!)
We ask you to vote on something at the end of the vid, so if you don't watch it all skip ahead and then cast your vote below!
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Well that seemed intresting.
It’s good of you guys to make this video when some forums are banning all mention of this document coughwarseercough
Some points seem great while others are daft. I take all these codex/ruleset leaks with a heavy grain of salt.
Defo it would be very interesting if a fake puts egg on GW face, if it is real about time the game got kicked into gear.
Also the rules have supersonic in them that is in the new Necron codex for the Doom scythe so that has some credibility for the document
Thanks for going through this. I’ve missed most of 5th ed so it was good to hear an overview. I’d shy away from embracing all of it although I’d be interested in how the game plays on a unit by unit basis. As for wether it’s real or not; I’d say it’s 50/50 I think its an old playtest ruleset that they let out to gauge player’s opinions. I expect they are at least one full revision ahead of this document. I like the idea of a basic and advanced rules set but the kill points sound too complex. I’d rather see the fantasy version of kill points as the unit’s points value. Long term players might love the added complexity but they need a simple game for new players as well, hopefully that will be the ‘basic’ game.
I don’t think its real just because the One Rulebook to Rule them All idea is counter to GW’s marketing strategy. They want to piece it out so you have to buy each one separately, and can keep sucking out all your money.
Also, if its not ‘official’ then I really don’t think they can come out with the rules as a sale-able product. There would have to be no direct, or to some extent indirect references to any GW trademarked units in the system. Otherwise GW lawyers will give these guys new orifices just so they have extra places to bugger them.
I think you’ve already touched on a few things that seem just flat out out of balance. The Titan Cleansing Smash stomp already smells of Limburger.
Over watch is a no brainer, but it will slow down game play.
I just downloaded the PDF and will take a much more detailed gander. The layout is a basic 2 column word doc, but it does have the GW header font. Everything else just looks like normal font. The level of detail is certainly impressive, and a massive amount of thought was put into it.
I think you should definitely look at doing some rule demos, and some scenarios. Why not. 5th edition is boring so …
“Some men see things as they are and say, why? I dream of things the way they never were and say, why not?” GB Shaw
I’m half hoping it’s “official” half hoping it’s not. I have not decided yet wether or not I like the part about walk/assault – fight – shoot.
Big games in all honour… But starting this hobby is becoming incresingly expencive.
That is if you go the Warhammer/WH40K route which is propably one of the most expensive miniature games on the market. There’re so many new manufacturers coming to the market, many of which make viable alternatives to GW’s minis. You can still play, but it doesn’t have to preak your bank.
Sounds really intresting, that overwatch might be extremely useful for Tau players like me with ye olde Crisissuits with Fusions and/or Plasmas
I think GW will take some of the ideas from this video.
I say this because the Megalith was just a April Fools joke, until it ended up in the new Necron codex.
I think your right. A gaming group years back that I played with wrote many in depth campaigns and stories of our battles on our club web site. We where all surprised when one of our campaigns was in a codex with some slight name changes. Grant it we never copyright anything and felt somewhat honored, but we also felt ripped off that they never gave a nod to us. It seems like that’s GW way of doing things. Let others imagine and take it without giving credit.
If this is fake the creator better copyright it before it gets gobbled up as GW’s work. If it is GW’s then they can do what ever they wish of it.
Copyright is automatic.
You have my vote – I say play some games with the document and see how it feels – if nothing else it sounds like it’ll be a load of fun and give 40k a new perspective
Permision granted, as far as i’m concerned give this codex a chance. 🙂
As I was walking up the stairs
I read some rules wot wasn’t there.
It wasn’t there again today
The 6th edition Forty K!
It’s past midnight here and I managed to watch a few minutes of the video and the skim the “document” through really quick. Seems really interresting even if it turns out to be fake, but I’d give it a try just to see how it plays and feels…
Three options on veracity I think:
1: This is real and GW have figured out that by clamping down on it they’ll just get it more publicity.
2: It was play tested, but its changed so much this is practically a separate edition anyway so gw don’t care.
3: It probably SHOULD be real but isn’t, and in a perfect world GW would be hunting whoever wrote this with a contract in hand.
As for how good it is, at first I was sceptical, but after reading a few times, I’m actually just gonna paraphrase something it says in the pdf and agree that once you get around how things work, its almost the same game, just a bit more brutal.
I do not like the sound of those new rules , some things sound to much like fan made and I do not think they would ever stop apocalypse and allow you to field titans and bane blades in normal games as it would make half the forge world books useless.
please don’t do any more of these videos unless you can explain it in a way that is not going to make me get annoyed and make my enjoyment of the game go
Worry not young padawan, GW would never do anything to make something someone has spent a fortune on suddenly redundant.
The sarcasm is strong with this one…
You guys must be referencing some movie or something, but I don’t get it…
these are not the jokes you are looking for…(waves hand)
Someone has never heard of spearhead….GW has been trying for years to get people to buy more of the bigger kits so not surprised. I do like some of the changes tho especially how first turn is decided/ new turn sequence and overwatch(w00t!) I’m hoping while holding my salt shaker this may breathe some new life into a very stagnate game.
Im tempted to get back into Warhammer 40k when or if this comes out but ill have to wait and see
I would love to be able to read through this rule set. fack or not. Were did you find them?
could you please post a link to were they can be downloaded?
Sorry No
No links to this please until we better understand the source.
Keeps everyone right
Just google it. Was Easy to find.
I come home from a long ( and I mean long) day of work, turn on my computer, get myself a can of beer and then get pleasantly surprised by Beasts of War. I really hope this is the real deal, and I’m not just saying that cos I’m drunk 😀
Go for it, ditch 5th and adopt this, not 6th ed rule set!
i heard GW told dakkadakka that this rule book goes down or they do so i think it is real
and also for your question at the end GOD YES ow yes i would love that better yet email me the book please 😀
well since wound allocation is out the window and the points have gone up my 20 nob bikers are getting there power klaws XD i going to have 23 power klaws running around and a stompa backing them up
Lets play 41K.
I have my list, but does everyone know how to get it, esp. after Some sites have taken it down?
i think you should play it. BUT you must do at least one game as a battle report to help us understand what it’s on about. and make it so everyone can watch, not just the backstagers.
Seems likely to be fan made as a lot of it sounds like 2nd Ed rules, and there’s a lot of groups that have worked on modernising that ruleset.
I don’t think its fan made, it may not be the current real 6th edition thats probably at the printers, but its a version of 40K of some sort,be it an early version of 6th as it currently stands, or an outline that was scrapped.
It would take several hundred man hours to create what I’ve read through, probably more, spelling mistakes and grammar aside, the various rules fit together very well, its a working system.
Great Job and video guys…
If it is true it does put my green tide army at great risk on the table
I just watched the video twice now if it is even remotely true it would force me to rethink how I win with orks no longer flood objectives and either for the win or force a draw and hope to d6 out with roll ending at turn 5…
However I see an advantage using both my necrons and blood angel army lists. But I am at a loss with how to do it up with orks that alpha strike doesnt work in there favor…. Or I am missing it
I say lets do a battle report or two in BoW with the 6th edition. That way any other videos stay current and don’t have to be pitched … just in case. Then these alternate universe battles can stay no matter what and can be a great what if …
I’m going to vote that you guys use this ruleset. 5th ed is soo dead…worse comes to worse you guys have a fun set of houserules in the meantime.
do it!
I personally think this is a play test document, like a big collaboration of all possible rules scenarios put out to play testers for their feedback on what does and doesn’t work well on the table. I’m sure 6th edition will pull FROM this leaked document in the final version, but that the leak is not THE final document. This leak is almost a mash up of 2nd edition thru to incorporating all the new models available, slap it in a big book and see what rules can make the final cut for 6th edition
I vote go for it, make some vids on it if you have the time, I’m glad overwatch is back, the feel of these rules seems very much like 40k when I really last enjoyed it..
As Darrell said “it could be completely right” in which case we could all get ahead of the game.
I’m sure most viewers know how 5th works and it is going to be redundant soon anyway so any articles you would do in future using 5th edition would just as relevant as an article using fictitous rules.
I’d be happy to see where this goes
Well the concern is everything or a lot of what they do for 6 months will be wrong, but as its Darrell, that might happen even if they stick to 5th. 😀
I kid, but really after those 6 months none of the 5th ed stuff is worth a damn anyway, so why not go with this new and fresh set of rules?
It has the text “As always, your feedback is much appreciated.”
So obviously these documents are not made by GW 😉
You have my vote also – the 40k part of me is demon though….but what the heck the gods don’t care from where the blood flows! There’s at least a 0.01% chance we will survive overwatch and gut you all! MHAHAHA ahem
It is a very interesting rule set, I have to admit. It seems very legitimate for GW, but it could be “fake”, as you said Warren. However, bearing that in mind, I am leaning towards saying yes to using it until 5th Edition is replaced, because I would personally like to see, if you have the time and resources, how each army plays with the new rule set. To me, this is making 40k TACTICAL, which is what it needs. At the moment, it’s usually either stand back and shoot or charge, whereas if this comes in, people will actually have to be careful with their choices during the battle, and use their head to achieve victory. It means being a general, and having not just a row of victories, but a reputation at tournaments, or gaming clubs, as a superb battlefield tactician, which really brings the game to life.
I dunno, maybe I’m being too over the top with my thoughts, but I would be happy to lose to an opponent if they had outsmarted me, rather than just having jammy rolls on the dice.
So yeah, I’d say go with it. Give each army a test with it to see how it affects them, for better or for worse.
Keep up the good vids guys, I’m loving every minute of it 🙂
Anyone have a link to the document?
@warzan, please use these rules as a 5.5 Ed and make videos of them until 6th comes out.
At last, we will get some battle reports from you!!!!
Just don’t make them back stage only!
Go for this “experimental” rules I’m with you
this is very interesting but to me there is about 6 month left of 5th Ed left and thought this looks like it could be the real deal we don’t know at what stage of development his was written at. this could have been really early on in development and a lot of these rules could be changed by now or taking out by now. I don’t when to learn the bulk of new rule set for this to be changed in 6 month time. Also if GW has made changes to this it could turn out really bad. If we could find out more about it and how close to being finished this was then I might give it a go but until then I am sticking with 5ed
I vote use 6th edition rules for future videos. Anyone can get info and tactics ect from other sites for 5th, break the mold and give people something different and interesting, and possibly correct 😛 plus batreps would be awesome
Haha, Blood of Kittens is getting hit so hard right now their servers are overloaded.
sorry not like it so far
i would really like to see some battle reports with titans, baneblades and so on. i dont think there would be any balance at all with the actual rules for super heavies on a 2000 Points Game.
Well, if this is real, Mat Ward’s been playing SOTR and Incursion…
I think there’s a little bit of warpath in there with squad leaders working out cover as well, and the bidding for first turn, reminds me of how Battletech’s clans decide who gets the honour of any conflict- in fluff at least I’m not sure that’s in the actual rules.
This is why I’m in half a mind it’s not legit. It’s stolen too much from other games, and too obviously as well.
Time will tell.
Well it depends, if 6th has been in development as long as some people say, then Allessio Cavatore might have started the first draft, and then other people added to it when he’d left. Its based heavily on 5th anyway, why not leave in later ideas he’d thrown around even if they’re being used elsewhere?
IF this is real there is an interesting thing about the codex lists: black templars and witch hunters are missing
BT Whitchunters and Necrons and Sisters of Battle all missing from the codex update but it could just mean its an incomplete document
The Imov-1Ymov1 is really cool, but it should be bound to what unit has higher speed and initiative.
I don’t know almost nothing to be sincere about 40k, but it doesn’t seem real that i move a dreadnough and assault first a group of banshees that are gonna directly charge to me.
I say it would be better “You choose a unit, i choose other and roll for iniciative” instead of having turns, in that way it would be more realistic. If you gain the turn you can give it to the other player and gain some kind of bonus because you can react better to what is comming at you.
There are great improvements… but it could be a lot better as it was shown by other miniature games (Cutlass, Infinity, Dystopian wars )
I definitely like the idea of getting more use out of the initiative stat like this – and I’m making Plague Marines right now so I do not say this out of personal interest…
well i say go ahead do battle reports do tips tricks of this but keep tips and suggestions for 5th edition still (because i’m a noob and cant think for myself >.>) and go all out like you normally do you guys rock good night every body *walks off stage*
I would love to see you guys playing this!
I love this idea of “I move, you move. I shoot, you shoot.” For me the worst part of 5th edition is sitting around waiting for the other player to go through all his complicated crap and take his turn while I sit around, remove models, and occasionally roll some dice. This sounds like it would be much more interactive, less time consuming, and an overall better experience.
I say go ahead with your tutorial videos for this ruleset. Like you said, best case we’re ahead of the curve, worst case we were amused by your rantings, mid-way case we have head start on learning the new ruleset.
hell yes!!!
keep it comin!
You have my vote Beasts of War!! What’s the point of rehashing the soon to be dead 5th edition? I like the direction this mystery rule book is headed. 40k should be about tactics! I would love to dust off my old units and throw them into play. This looks like the real thing to me.
Do gentleman it seems interesting and cool. Except for the no shooting before assaulting which only made sense to me.
This is a brilliant idea. And the idea of battle-reports is awesome.
You’ll note in this “rulebook” some paragraphs are the same as the 5th ed book word-for-word, but then the next or prior paragraph is similar but changed. See “pinning” and cross reference this with the 5th rulebook “pinning”, for example.
At most it’s a working draft. However I would have thought 6th edition is being made as a £50 book, and the layout of this “rulebook” doesn’t fit that idea.
I am new to 40K and new to all modelling and associated games but what I do know of 40K seemed odd, I think the fact that with this you move units ata time seems to flow much better and can open up many more possibilities as to your next move, so please continue with this and I will hold off from buying a rule book.
Well, it sounds like it could be legit. Perhaps not ALL the rules are set in stone but the meat of it sounds GW. The idea that the game covers all types of wargamers; competitive/for fun/tournament is one reason, but the idea that there is an optional “streamlined” version for beginners or people who just want a quick pick up game is another.
Adds alot of variety to a game that had really been stagnant (for me anyway). To use a really poor metaphor 😛 up until now the last few editions of 40k just seemed like different types of coke. You had original coke, then cherry, then diet, etc etc. as we’ve gone through the editions. It was all coke at the core, but just altered a bit for a different bit of flavor. But this just seems a whole new pop, like root beer. mmmm… rootbeer.
It’s good, but I’m not sure it’s root beer good. XD
And I say run with this set of rules. I like them, and it might get me to play 40k again.
i would love to see more on this ruleset, but ONLY if you provide us with an easy way to obtain the pdf =D i cant find it with a google search
i hope its real! carnifex alpha strike! here comes the pain! definetly do some batreps it will be a good way to kill time before actually see 6th ed
It has been said on many other forums, that somebody has owned up to it being a set of house rules, because they disliked 5th ed and tried to you sue more of the previous editions in it instead.
This also supports the fact that the PDF was taken down very quickly.
I say wait for the hardback, final release, or of course leaks from White Dwarf.
Loving all the choir calling FAKE, I wonder how many of them know how much work would have went into producing just the ‘codex updates’ never mind the complete set of rules.
If a small team of folks were working on this you would have heard about it before now and the evidence of it being created would be scattered about.
The fact it came out in one complete block and not dribs and drabs, also points to it not being fake, or a marketing stunt (6 months out from a potential release date you would spread the leak out for maximum coverage – and if I were in charge (and evil) it would be timed to competitor releases to do maximum damage to their visibility – thankfully I’m not in charge (and gluttony aside not evil!) lol)
I think in time people may start to open their eyes and wonder what the motive of certain sections are to so fiercely try to protect the interests of certain companies.
Beasts of War are firmly in the camp of it being… we just don’t know, …but the evidence is actually stacked against it being a fake. It may not be 100% correct to what’s coming out, but that’s not a fake.
Personally I’m more interested in the scenario of it being a fake, and I would love to speak to the individual who headed it’s development up (your identity will be protected), as the possibilities are somewhat more interesting. 😉
Fair enough, I’m just passing on information from other forums.
It could be fake, it COULD be REAL.
But as far as i know we are playing 5th ed at the moment, not 6th ed. So why teach us rules about somethign that hasn’t been released yet…
Keep in the edition we are in.
Btw Warren this isn’t me having a go at you mate. 🙂
Who ever write this is a genius, and I wouldn’t mind it… well i’d relay like it to be 6th edition. yet i belive it needs more work and some fixes, because my Orks and Dark Eldar are suddenly becoming very beatable from what I can work out. So by all means do videos on this, but please for the sake of gamers who play 5th edition with our friends still keep the 5th ed videos coming in as much as the 6th ed ones.
But personaly I am going to wait until the release of 6th edition when we see the final book, and when hopefuly you have your week or two on 6th edition 🙂
Oh and just saw the end of the video.
Sorry guys, I would say no. Sorry about that, but it has been said to be a fake so many times, and from Blood of Kittens. And it could just be a waste of your time, and I don’t wanna watch something that none of us will be playing yet because it is either a fake or hasn’t come out yet.
But hey thats my opinion 🙂
Well, frankly I do not think GW is capable of producing such a good, flexible set of rules (at least they have not been since 2nd ed.).
However their teams are changing and we can hope this is a pre-release version.
I say go for it. lets have a deeper look in.
Besides this may just become an underground movement.
The thing is, there is ZERO downside to the business of GW in this book, it opens up the entire library of forgeworld to everyone – it was before but the psychological barrier was always there that to use that stuff it had to be ‘Apocalypse’.
With the intro of potential changes to the turn sequence it opens the door to skirmish level games too.
Real or Not, this book was written from a Marketing perspective not just a gamers perspective, that says something about it’s potential authenticity.
I totally agree. this book is a Marketing driven approach to the game.
It actually has a lot of things in it players have been asking for for quite a long time.
Besides the introduction of YgIg opens up the game for all the tactical players who did not like 40k being a game of the type, let us quote Darrel ” I know exactly what to do in which turn.”
So, maybe with their changes in the development team and a strong marketing and selling intention, it could be part of the real thing.
The amount of work represented by this indicates so as well.
I still don’t think any of the GW ‘leaks’ of the last year are genuine. If GW were so tight lipped they’d keep it all in house and have no external play testers. Having external testers is always a risk and after the Dark Eldar debacle I’m sure this would not have been in the wild if GW were really worried about it. Also this is the best generator of hype GW could have wished for. Because its unknown they don’t have to field questions but people will still comment on it, which buries other companies products. Mantic will have a more difficult time pushing Warpath in the ‘dead’ months before 6th is released because everyone will be talking about 40k even if it’s just to deride it in the face of excited fans. And if Beasts of War are making videos about this they aren’t making videos about other companies.
I don’t think doing videos on this will prevent BoW doing other stuff, if anything it’ll guilt trip them into doing more non-40k stuff…
I still don’t see anyone playing Warpath around me. I see it as just a rule set to try and legitimise a range of cheap GW knockoff models by another company. This won’t affect sales of Mantic figures as they’ll still be primarily purchased as cheap proxies for 40k regardless.
Much as GW constantly annoy me, it is the hobby titan that other small companies feed from. Hell, half of the ‘independant’ mini studios that are covered weekly on BoW and other sites wouldn’t be making sales if it weren’t for the fact they cash in on GW IP.
I think doing vids on this would be awesome even if its fake. Id like to get a hold of these rules and try them out myself 😀
I say go for it, the rules need more depth and more focus on shooting .. the alternate unit activation should be standard, unless there is are options for out of sequence reactions (other than the 12″ overwatch)
It’s certainly an interesting rules set, regardless of its source of authenticity. Downloaded it all yesterday with the codex updates and such and been reading through it a little, taking a look at the list of ”basic hot points” as it were in the rules. Need to delve into it a bit deeper, share it amongst buddies and see what they think of it as more experienced 40k Players…
As to whether or not this is a fake, its one hell of a fake if it is. There’s reasoning for both sides to call it, but its a good rules set and could make the game very fun. So hell, run with it for half the year until we find out whether or not its real.
Bring on some videos 😉
BoW Ben
Do it! Go ahead with “6th” I say.
Cheers!
It does sound very interesting. Choosing whether you assault or shoot in the sequence might make sense and does make for a increased tactical gameplay, specially with units specialized full for either shooting or combat.
But what I really want and what I pray for to the emperor every day is that they will change the deep strike rules. Something definitely needs to be done there. And with so many armies using deep strike it would make sense for them to try to make it more useful.
I think there should be rules for splitting fire between weapon types in a unit, it makes no sense for weapons shooting at targets they cant damage just because a heavy weapons member of the unit can
Go for it, Looks like the 6th has got some good ides.
I think go for it, play some games, see if it works in practice as well as it sounds etc..
Yes – do see if it is quicker, more streamlined. 250 points a side or so and old vs new would be most funky. Troops only so it’s straight forward, say necrons vs marines? Similar weapons/troop types.
overwatch is what I use now with coteaz and his “ive been expecting you” rule.
I say go for these to play test.
The rules sound really interesting. There’s a lot there to like. Overwatch coming back sounds really good. Consolidating some of the rules such as fleet and charge into moves would be welcome, as would opening up some of the complexity such as move and fire for vehicles.
I dunno. Stick with vanilla 5th for the time being if possible – unless they make deep strike safer, then I want every battle to concentrate on daemons and only daemons. Especially if we can assault after deep strike or somehow avoid the cheerful – risk losing unit by being forced to deep strike then lose unit thanks to everyone else having a gun.
Did I hear right that you can use pistols in melee? Now that’s sensible. No more wasing points on a powerfist. Just give my blood angels two infernus pistols. 2 s8 AP1 attacks!
Have they fixed dreadnoughts getting stuck by guardsmen? I did that a while back and it was horribly unfair on my opponent. The idea of a 12′ metal monster getting held up by men was daft. As was a super speedy landspeeder getting shot down by a gaunt.
A lot of great ideas in this… is it a leak? is it a fake? who knows but it has a lot of solid ideas that GW should think about and i am looking forward to trying a game of 5th ed but with a ‘i go you go’ format just for fun… i wasnt able to find the pdf so i’ll just have to wait to see what the future holds but BoW are mega and should keep up the great work. Hopefully they’ll be able to find out if its a leak or a fake and let us know… the truth is out there
It gets my vote. There’s plenty of 5th Ed videos out there already, why not shake things up by trying something different? He who dares!
They unshaked everything after 3rd edition, so this would be more or less returning to normal, with the target audience not being primarly toddlers 😉
I say AYE. Sounds like fun, and if there’s definitely going to be some kind of sixth edition this year then it can’t hurt to get used to not talking about 5th.
Also, overwatch! Hurrah. With that and the possibility of unit-by-unit activation they make the game seem a lot less lumbering and monolithic. They make it something… new. Megalithic?
I think a lot of it is a load of rubbish, there’t too much of the old rules coming back, which in my eyes isn’t a step forward, its a step backwards.
The alpha strike is a great idea – but on the table top? all those close combat armies (especially the weaker ones) will possibly be toast now through the amount of cheese and abuse this rule will get, and I think daemon armies will stay in the warp for a little bit longer.
Not much profit there if you ask me
But thats my opinion
Well its a game with guns, its about time they started treating it like one .. fantasy handles hand to hand for obvious reasons, being medieval and all
A whole lot of this set sounds like that ‘leak’ from last year. Wasn’t that eventually discredited?
Also, if this is legit GW might be in hot water with their hobbit license, the whole communication blackout was to help prove they can keep something a secret -which they clearly cannot if this is real. If that document is real, GW could stand to lose a lot more money from losing the rights to the hobbit than they gain from generating 40k buzz.
As for whether bow covers this or the current edition of 40k: i don’t care. I don’t play 40k and there’s nothing I heard there that makes me want to come back. It’s the codices that make or break 40k and the necron death ray conundrum shows those still don’t have the quality I expect.
Battlerports etc. : do it guys!
Not sure if this has been mentioned in a previous post, but I persoanlly think these rules are Fan-based. What everyone needs to remember is that 99.9% of people watching this video and subscribed to BoW, regard this as a “Hobby”. For GW, it is a business. If these rules are genuine, it removes an entire range of books we need to buy to play and obviously, not spending money on.
If you want to play Apocalypes from scratch, you need to buy the 40k rule book (5th edition), codex and Apoc books. If this is real, although it is only one book less to buy, unless they bump the price of the rules up, it is a lot less revenue for GW.
The rules do sound interesting. I would be interested in a few battle-report styled videos to see them in action, however I would not like to see BoW abandon EVERYTHING related to 5th edition in case it is fan based only. Just my 2 cents.
P.S. BoW guys – Did you get permission from Spikybitz to post this video? 😛
That’s true but it’s also possible – actually it’s a fact that at some point GW will want to replace Apoc Books with a new edition or something different, as that will bring in more money. Apoc may well have run its course. In addition, perhaps GW are looking to bring out more titanesque plastic kits (a but like how in 8th Warhammer they hit Monsters). Also, It’s likely the new rulebook WILL be more expensive – £50? – in line with Fantasy.
If this is fan-made then I’d like to shake the guy’s/girl’s hand. Dedication!
I might be wrong but 3rd ed. had many of these concepts.
For myself I am ready for some new rules.
I vote YES for BoW using these rules until 6th ed. becomes a reality.
In no way will over watch come back. No matter what we gamers wish, GW will never take up that rule again. The reason, because if every unit can do over watch it would just start mexican standoffs. Can you imagine it, “You go first” “No, you go first”. The game will come to a halt as nobody will go close to the unit in over watch or give up the advantage of them being in over watch. That my friends is why this rule will never see the light of day again in 40k.
That also gives a good hint as to it’s source. It’s a fan made set of house rules. Trust me, many fans have the time and will power to make ther wishes come true and make complex rules and background like this.
While that might be what happens, a good player will use the other rules – cover, evasion or simply bullish toughness to get through the fire, or otherwise pound a massive sacrificial unit across the board, have them soak up the shots and pour into combat.
I’ve visions of a unit of Seekers landing far away then belting 21″ into charge range. Yes, some will get shot up but not all of them, and with a marine requiring a 4+ to hit not everyshot will get through.
The question is would rapidfire weapons fire once or twice?
It’s a good rule. Imagine having a Mawlock (I don’t tihnk that’s the correct spelling) land beside your devastators. Previously they’d have to sit there and take it. Now they can shoot. In many ways it makes up for the phase rearrangement as you put a squad in overwatch before expecting a charge.
It sounds a more tactical game. I’d just like to be a playtester, that’s all. There’s much feedback to provide – making the vehicle damage chart longer so glancing does nothing but add up to a destroyed would be a favourite. Tanks are either in perfect working order or smoking wrecks in our games!
Overwatch though, isnt something you can just ‘do’ , its a skill that comes with units, the balance comes from restricting units who can use the rule.
I would bet real money its not fan made, yes they can put time into stuff, but as I said on the first page, this is hundreds of man hours, I would take a guess it would take well over 100 hours to write the codex updates alone.
This comes from a design team, it may not be 6th as it currently exists, but its not cobbled together rumours as the BA fake was, its far too sophisticated for that.
@bubbles15 and @nogginthenog I do see your points and if it is limited to just a hand full of choice units, then it can work. We just have to remember that GW took that rule out for a reason and it’s often hard to get them back in.
But I still stick with it being fan made. Why? Because I myself am making a house rules for a traitor guard “codex”. It’s harder than people might think even if they think it’s just copy paste from the IG codex. I making it into 3 subgroups of guard, mutant and anarchist. My point is if a goof like me can do a codex so can a club make a full set of rules.
Overwatch only seems to activate if a unit moves within 12″ of the unit that is in overwatch, so they could be avoided or picked off from a distance. There don’t seem to be any restrictions on going into overwatch (provided a unit has the rule) which makes it quite powerful, but it looks like you won’t be able to just sit a squad full of missile launchers (f’rinstance) on the edge of the board and blast anything that moves.
I don’t think it’s necessarily a fake, myself, but I did find it maybe too good to be true at first, like you say. Who knows, maybe GW started listening to the customer? It *could* happen.
GW certainly have made a conscious effort to balance the last Armies Books and Codexes – including Grey Knights! Which seems to only be “overpowered” if you’re an inept player < from what I've been told. Dark Eldar, Necrons, Orks and Goblins, Tomb Kings and Ogre Kingdoms have all been quite rational and reasonable releases I think, and I've read many others have noted this as well. I think that's either pure chance that or GW are slowly starting to make an effort … that may or may not last long at all.
I had heard that they’ve been careful to keep the current edition of WFB balanced, let’s hope the recent codex releases bode well for them doing the same with 6th edition 40K.
Do it I hope I can actually use my carnifexs effectively now. Would love batreps but plz don’t make them backstage
Would like to see some (non-backstage) batreps for 6th.
There seems to be a mix up with the term IGO/UGO on the video.
40K 5th uses an IGO/UGO system. Where an entire side goes… then the other side goes.
The other method (AT-43) is Alternate Unit Activation (AUA).
Where the first player activates one unit, and then the other player activates one unit, and so on until all units have been activated.
I’m not sure how this would work in a melee system where both sides fight when the attacking unit activates. In AT-43 only the activated unit fights.
(BTW…. AT-43 IP is now owned by Cyanide Studio)
I want to know how this will affect the grey knights.
Assault weapons count as secondary close combat weapons, so basically, everything with a storm bolter and flamer termis get an extra attack.
I belive it is probably some old developers notes.
And a basic outline on the direction 6th ed may move.
PLEASE use the rules in this document to have fun with.
6 months of interesting fun vs more boring dull uninspiring games of 5th ed.
You dont need our permission……. Its a no brainer !
While a lot of these rules are awsome and hugely improve the game, I don’t think that it is real, or at least that it was made by a fan from rumors, leaks, and inside information. I don’t believe that it is completely legitimate for the simple fact that when something looks too good to be true, it useually isn’t. The document addressed all or most of the changes that 40k players have been wanting for years, makes strategy significantly more important, it allows players to customise their games so that you will rarely play the same game twice, and most importantly it would allow you to do all of this with the models that you already have rather than drastically increasing the minimum game size. The last one is very important for me because GW’s stated plan for the 2012/13 year is to increase sales of products and bring in as many new gamers as possible. Look at how big Fantasy has starded to get, where they changed the system so that GW can make you buy as many models as possible. This document was simply to good to be true, and I honestly believe that it will be better than what GW finally does release. That being said, I certainly do hope that I am wrong about this, that this is the way that the system will work, and that GW will release a Rule Book that is streamlined and fun to play without the focus being on getting as much money out of gamers as possible. If that does happen though, I will unfortunately never get a chance to play because I will have dropped dead from shock.
Please look into this more BOW! Even if this is just a “rough draft” it looks fascinating. The one thing that has always got under my nerves about 40k is the games had no individual flavor…every battle was essentially the “same”. I hope those strategem and mission creation rules are the real deal……
Finly there’s a point in taking a chaos dreadnought. Use these rules, play some games, make some videos. I’m loving the way these rules seem to be shaping up and can only hope it is 6th or close to it.
I wonder what would happen if it is just house rules made by a fan and we really like it. Lets say 50% of the 40k gamers start playing with this set of rules and choose to stick with them. This might force GW to change the game from what they planned on.
Thats not a bad thing. I see it as a means of us gamers taking the game into our own hands and shaping it rather than us just taking whats given to us. I don’t know how to put it into words, but I think BoW should run with this rule set just because we will be in control of our games fate rather than the company. It’s us that make the game what we wish it to be.
Go for it! If the official rules don’t pan out to be the same as the leaked ones, at least you have a new set of rules to use instead in friendly games.
I would really love it if Over Watch really is back because it makes sense for an army to use it and would be of use for Troops capturing objectives, etc. It used to be in 2nd edition and why they took it away I’ll never know.
Hats off to the new rules-smith; it sounds bloody good, especially how the turns work; the game will be more fun and easier to get into; what with the set of streamlined rules to learn the game with, so I’m hoping that’s how the game will turn out to be and I can’t wait till it’s released. 🙂
I vote YES. Lets take a good hard look at this new system, everyone knows how to play 5th, so the worst case scenario is that we have fun playing with this for six months or so. Personally I like what I see, even if Eldar did get a raw deal, and I’d be willing to play this until GW releases 6th Ed.
For chapter and Terra, do it. This rulebook needs an in-depth look.
Hmmm interesting
The necron codex would support this because it gives me the feel its designed for 2k+
Well some of these rules remind me of some of the older rules. I like the “you move a unit and I move a unit”. That makes more sense. It should also be “you shoot a unit and I shoot a unit”. Moving and assaulting before shooting is stupid. I a real battle, you would move and shoot, or shoot and move. Before you assault a position, you isolate it, bomb it, shell it, shoot it, frag it, and flame it. You don’t attack a full strength, dug in enemy! Look at any battle in history.
I hope this isn’t the final version of the rules. Still needs work, but some good points here.
Have fun trying them out!
I personally believe like some others have said, (and I could be totally wrong) that this is a leaked draft/play test document. Is it the final 6th edition rules? Probably not. I would still love to see you blokes test it out and see how it plays as it seems to be one of the most novel and flexible versions of 40K that I’ve seen for some time. Cheers
What I find rather amusing is if these ‘leaked’ rules are indeed fake but turn out to be far better than what is due out by GW later in the year. What will you 40K gamers do in that scenario?
Would you keep to these free and very good unofficial rules or would you be happy to switch to a poorer set of ‘official’ rules by GW that will be released at the usual high price? $$$
I dont care if its fake, early beta or real…what I care about is that its more like a 40k I might play again
So far, so good. With the possibility that it’s a mid-’11 playtest, with typos and other errors, I think it’s a great start. The conspiracy theorist in me thinks the leak would also be beneficial for hobby-wide beta testing. Lots of excitement and bug fixes for the forbidden fruit from us, and then the GW subeditors can fix the spellings. Bring on the 25th Anniversary boxset!
More videos of “6th”, please. Full productions, too – not just wide-angle chats… =)
To be fair when you have warren and darrell on set, you need wide angle to fit in the awesomeness.
And by awesomeness, I obviously mean ‘holiday weight’.
If this rules set is real, then…. fiiiiiiiiinaly the 40k game turns strategy and not piou piou shooting game for 8yrs old boys! If it is fake, then tooooo bad for GW!!!! I will be playing this rule set!
I’ve read through this whole document twice and honestly, I don’t care if it is real, its better than what I have been playing. Please make more videos about it
im with blitzme99 on this one. its prob not real, but a quick scan has already got me sold. all i want now is for units to be able to separate their fire so the lascannon can shoot at something else and ill be one…happy…..bunny
according to this book, a land raider would be able to remain stationary and fire 3 times at one target or twice at 2 targets with all weapons
yea, i just believe troops should have it too
That would take all the fun out of Long Fangs. Firing at different targets should be a special bonus for specific units, much too powerful to be a general rule.
The tournament session is just finishing for me (start in October end in April). Only have a few team events planned now till the summer. The next big individual tournament is in October and that will be with the new rulebook. So, bring on the new edition.
Sounds interesting. If it’s the real thing then we are talking about HUGE battles! I like it!
@warzan So warren, do you have enough votes to start doing the video’s or are you not going through it?
Looking at various sites about, it’s looking like it could be a bit more of a hoax rather than a leak.
I say go for it at least it would be fun
Do it, scrap 5th edition and move forward with this. I hope even half of these changes are for real.
I vote yes, play some games with this unknown author’s ruleset.
Ha Ha Ha let´s become Beta Tester 🙂
I vote for with one condition.
I base this on the fact that BoW has gone completely down the crapper over the last months so you will only by doing like ten 40k videos anyway.
The condition is that you keep the videos general, perhaps even in a fashion that they can provide interesting material if the rules turn out very different.
Let’s take a few examples.
A video detailing a specific new rule and how it will affect this and that, no! If nothing else, the bad grammar and odd mistakes could potentially mess up the entire interpretation so even if the rule turns out the same way in the finished product, Darrell might boil everything down to how it is written now and it could turn out entirely wrong in the video anyway.
A video about stratagems and perhaps building missions, thats great. Because even if it’s fake that could make for a very interesting fan made expansion to the real deal.
Cheers
I dont see the problem, do videos for 5th edition as per normal Then do seperate vids showing how a scenario would be different if you used “unofficial” rules pack.
Of course you could just do Warmachine, Malifaux, Kings of War, Bushido, Infinity, Anima Tactics, Hell Dorado, Historical or any of the other systems out there…hell how about some Lord of the Rings love? Hobbit coming to cinema soon
Well, after studying up on this document for the last couple of days, I’ve can tell you that I don’t care whether it’s legit or not – this rule set is far and away better the 5th Edition (and I liked 5th just fine).
If GW’s official 6th Edition isn’t at least as good when it comes out… they can keep it. My gaming group and I agree unanimously on that.
The latest Noobhammer podcast has a very interesting segment on this ruleset, goes into a lot of detail for those ( like me) who didnt download it in time.
I say do a few vids on this ruleset, i really like the sound of it, and would be interested to hear your take on it.
Not gone through the document in detail but one thing just occurred to me that makes me think possible fake. You-go-I-go – good solution to cheesy armies with a devastating alphastrike, you move one unit it at a time so your opponent never gets to unleash that mighty cheesy combo because the games too fluid now. Yes the person going first might be able to deliver a nasty sting but they’re not going to do anything that’ll cripple you, you get to respond straight away.
Similarly stratagem points are a nice solution to this problem of a cheesy alpha strike. Your opponent can shell out their points to go first but as a counter balance you’ve bought some nifty enhancements for your troops and the equilibrium is restored…. if it was taken in isolation and forget that it’s you go I go. The way I see it is they’re two different solutions to the the same problem (the person going first sometimes has an overwhelming advantage) but both at the same time make no sense to me.
As an example I play Orks. You’ve got a shooty army and want to go first? Fine. Even just 2 points bit and I’m taking Strike at Dawn and all my units of 30 boys are advancing with the benefit of night fighting. One of your units gets to take a pop first? Big deal. Now if it was your whole army there’d be a bit of counterbalance there but even at 2 points your paying an awful lot for a single unit to act. Going up to 4? I’ll let you deploy first with Orbital Surveillance to see where that nasty unit you want to go first is, deploy mine well away from it then have night fighting for the first turn too so I can close in. If you want to allow one single unit to have it’s turn first you’re throwing huge advantages for your opponent away and essentially gaining nothing.
As far as I see it Strategems only work in the traditional idea of the turn sequence otherwise your buying nothing and handing your opponent an overwhelming advantage which is making me lean towards this being some sort of compiled wish list. Saying that I’ve not read the whole lot, only a quick scan and watched the video.
I’m afraid I like the proposed rules for the theoretical 6th edition, with few exceptions. Skimmers and fliers should be allowed to end their movement on buildings where their bases can fit. However, being a Tyranid player, my main concern is for the future effectiveness of my army as it is designed with fewer number of models overall most of which both shoot and assault. If I can only do one or the other, I don’t forsee very many wins in my future.
I’d like you to use this ruleset.
just found this, wondering what the community thinks to this. (btw this is about the ‘leak’ being confirmed)
http://natfka.blogspot.co.uk/2012/01/leaked-6th-edition-rules-declared-legit.html