Weekender XLBS: Can Tabletop Games Make Us Feel?
November 18, 2018 by dracs
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Happy Sunday and what a disturbing cover photo of Sam you’ve chosen to use
Just started watching and finding your voice sound to be choppy and not normal buddy during the first segment.
listened to as much of myself as I can stand and I’m not hearing any difference when I was talking about the CoC game, was it then or later?
Just the first minute or so
Interesting advert on the weekender mate. ??
Which one?
Mit der whirlybird ?
Happy Sunday to all!
I had to take a double take on the cover shot. It works and is disturbing all at the same time. 🙂
3rd … YEAH BABY!! …. Oh and Happy Sunday to all and I concur with previous posters … AquaSam is freaky
Happy Sunday!
Happy Sunday!
If it makes you feel better @dracs the forced perspective of you in back and Gerry at front is just you recreating how they made the Hobbit actors look smaller in the LotR films. 😉
Sam’s Scion sounds less Aquaman and more Waterbender to me. ;). As for lacking water, couldn’t he dessicate his allies with water mastery and use the water from their bodies? And of course put it back onto them when he’s done. ?
Or he could make them cry then drown them in their own tears.
Happy Sunday!!
I’ve had several moments while playing Bolt Action where my US Airborne are charging across an open field and I’m reminded of that scene in Band of Brothers where Lt Winters is running alone across an open field during the attack on the crossroads.
Certainly close games evoke an emotional response where improbable or incredible things happen, and that can be fun, depending on context.
Some of the best emotional moments come from games like Robo Rally or Cards Against Humanity where laughter is a key feature.
Cooperative games that are really hard, like Forbidden Desert or Forbidden Skies where the game almost always kills you have huge amounts of tension when you think you just might make it depending on the next card you flip over.
But thise game also bring immense satisfaction when you actually do beat the game because you so rarely do.
Similar here. I have an emotional connection to my WW2 British army from Warlord. I think it’s the faces – they range from young kids to middle-aged men older than me. It’s brought home to me just what a huge section of British and Commonwealth men went out to fight.
Both of my grandfathers were in the Home Guard (one was excused service through being the local undertaker, the other failed his medical), living out the war quietly in ruralish Lancashire. Despite this I feel closer to the men who served from creating this army.
It’s a strange thing to have this attachment to my “little men” but ut’s there.
Sounds perfectly normal to me mate.
Happy Sunday.
I’m glad you bought up Knights of the Old Republic @avernos. I must have played both those games a dozen times. Light Side, Dark Side, Male, Female every play through is an emotional roller coaster. Slaughtering the people who ruined your life and took away your lightsaber is as satisfying as trying to rebuild the order from the ground up.
As a historical wargamer most of the “emotion”, for lack of a better word, comes from campaigns. Here’s this character you’ve built up for a dozen games and he gets killed by a stray bullet in some pointless skirmish. After that happens both players normally list of a half dozen famous Officers who died the same way and we move on with the game.
Obviously conflicts “closer to home” could bring up some emotions in some people but for me personally wargaming history is about having fun and playing the period, most games we just roll off to see who commands which force so that probably takes a bit of the emotion away.
I personally think RPG’s and Board games are far more emotional than a miniature wargame.
KOTOR is an awesome game, I too have played through it many, many times. Even on my Xbox one (dodgy graphics and excessive load times do not take away from it)
Just hoping someone revisits it for the newer consoles.
mmmmmmm Bastilla……….
I do like Cthulhu and we always played in the Green and pleasant land because it had better opportunities for stereotypes from a Jeeves and Wooster type background . I played a butler who never read a naughty book or saw a naughty creature and was constantly checking the drinks cabinet in case the ladies and gentleman had been overindulging. Well you would to going by the stories they most likely were making up about what they’d seen
As for emotion in games like @avernos there are games that have annoyed me because of the rules but I did feel sorry for the top hat in monopoly once when I bankrupted them
Happy Sunday
Good morning All! Got a nice German Apple Danish for breakfast (one of my last before I move) and an XLBS to watch. Life is good! Let the show begin!
When are you back off to the US @silverfox8?
We fly 17 December.
But we will get one more trip to Coleraine N Ireland in for Thanksgiving! Going to swing by and say hi to the BOW crew hopefully.
Well happy thanksgiving and safe travels to you and yours.
Will look forward to seeing you and hope you will like the new visitor centre we are working on.
Looking forward to seeing the changes to the area. By the way based on one of the things I’m dropping off with you guys your definitely not done painting your Hobbit Army.
Well ya know I have to mention Diplomacy when you talk about games that make you ‘feel’.
No question that it evokes emotions of betrayal which of course can lead to anger and sometimes even laughter when you’ve been warning a guy not to trust another player and then he finally backstabs the person you have been warning! Lots of emotions in Diplomacy!
I guess I think most games that have a storyline can evoke all kinds of emotions in the players as you get stuck into the game. Plain points match games of a game like FOW probably don’t evoke feelings as much. Of course they always have the ‘man i’m bummed I lost again’ feeling but not the game itself creating a feeling.
Oh blimey yes! One of the abiding memories of that game is getting regularly betrayed until you trusted no one. Good game but so frustrating sometimes.
Yeah it got to the point that my friends would just gang up on my right at the beginning to take me out. I took it as a compliment!
Morning all
Afternoon ?
“MONOPOLY” enough said!!!!!
Oh ya Happy Sunday to one and all.
Happy Sunday all! Another great watch to hopefully start a productive hobby day!
Fantastic XLBS. Thanks 🙂
As @avernos said, Discord is surprisingly good for playing RPGs across the world. I’m having a grand time in Cthulhu land. And amazed at how well the guys play, specially @laughingboy He’s just rolling with the game so well. To the point where I’m holding a little bit back with my char Mary, cause I just enjoy watching them unfold their characters so much, and don’t want to interfere too much with that. As one who has lived and breathed Lovecrafts world, I’m a bit jealous of the rest of the group though, who has no idea what they’ve signed up for :p That wide eyed innocence 😀
Speaking of feels: I think maybe for skirmish and wargames, you could get emotionally involved through a very narrative campaign, If you start to invest heavily in your little fighting men, seeing them develop and overcome hardships, I think that could trigger emotions. Not quite in that league, but I had a 40K game, where my opponents Ork Warlord tried to one shot my Overseer, very far away, through two buildings (she had clear line of sight through the windows). And I actually find myself rooting for her Warlord. Cause that whole scene was so cinematic, it would just have been so friggin’ cool had she succeeded. and I felt sad when it didn’t go through.
My boss has a Tau army I used to play with, back when I got back into 40K and hadn’t collected my own army yet. And there’s this one Lil Dude (that’s his name now), that just wouldn’t die. Everyone else in his squad got slaughtered. But he kept standing and fighting, against all odds. The sadness I (and my opponent too actually) felt, when he finally succumbed, was tangible. Lil Dude – you’re in my heart man! So I think it’s possible to have ‘feelings’ in wargames as well, but they are rather different from RPGs and boardgames and they do require some sort of narrative to take place.
Happy Sunday all 🙂
Is there something we should be worried about @aurorainbag? Gerry said this CoC game was about finding a magical seahorse with sparkling eyes and prettying rainbows for a mane. I’m starting to worry he may have been fibbing.
I’m with you on the single miniature and wanting them to die. I always have a soft spot for the one miniature in a squad that I have painted the best, or has the best pose (proper heroic style). They are always the last on the table if I can help it.
Oh there’s definitely magical seahorses, if by magical you mean mythos and by seahorse you mean a Deep One 🙂 Not too sure if they have rainbow ‘anythings’. But I guess they could have 😀 Don’t you worry about a thing…all is *ahem*…fine 🙂 Looking forward to tomorrow 🙂
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Or something like that ?
Great discussion
Only game that has really affected me was This War of Mine, to such an extent I wanted to throw it away.
I didn’t, and it will come out again soon, but it puts me in unpleasant situations that luckily have been well outside my comfortable existence
If we set-aside emotions such as happiness and enjoyment or even tension and excitement, which all games will provoke in some way otherwise nobody would really play them, I think games only really provoke a deeper emotional response if the game has an deeply emotive subject. It’s not so much the game as the context of the game that I think provokes the response. For example you could re-skin the Holding On game to be about a car that’s been sent into the garage and just managing the repairs to the point where the car becomes a write off because it’s uneconomical to repair it. It would be exactly the same game mechanically but because the context is different you would likely not get an emotional response (unless you havr recently been subjected to a massive mechanics bill in which case maybe it might be a bit close to home).
I have always seen games as having two components; the mechanic and the context. The mechanic is the maths and probability engines and what have you on which the rules are based. The context is a wrapper that essentially masks the mechanics and makes us want to play the game by making it relatable to us. For a lot of people, and I see this a lot with 40k players, they can see through the wrapper straight through to the numbers and that’s how they view the game. They talk about damage output in terms of probability, of how many points of damage a unit can reasonably expect to do in a turn, For people with minds like that re-skinning the game does nothing more than change the aesthetic and while that may potentially switch them on or off in terms of having to buy and paint models, to them it’s still the same game. And then there’s people like me who if you re-skin the games they become different games because I view the the game in terms of its context; the goal of holding a persons hand through their final moments is not the same as investigating a broken car and eventually scrapping it even if mechanically the two games were identical. So for me it’s the games context that will provoke, or not, an emotional response.
In terms if my own Wargaming experience I don’t think they have ever really produced anything like the kind of emotion I feel when watching something like Band of Brothers or the Rembrance Day Ceremonies. In terms of miniature painting they definitely have because that’s when I can build little dioramas that tell stories. I recently painted the Salute Armistice Centenary Special miniature and made a small scenic base with poppies. That definitely provoked a response because the model itself carried a message and just the act of adding the small red flowers brought up memories of the closing scene of blackadder goes forth which ultimately fades into a field full of red poppies. But that’s not really the game, that’s a creative process and as such is largely fuelled by emotion, feelings and experiences – being creative is by its nature emotional.
In other news you should all be wary of groups of men who are planning revolutions in pubs. It wouldn’t be the first time a revolution had been started in a drinking establishment with devastating consequences…
There’s a small caveat on that; Space Hulk’s “Roll a six or die” mechanic does a good job of making the old sphincter a little twitchy lol
I was truly scared in one game of Call of Cthulhu. It was a split-second of reality falling away, that real vertigo feeling you get from the Mythos. All credit to the author of the scenario and the Keeper for conveying it so well.
Happy Sunday
All I have say this week is…
“They are coming to take me away.. HaHa”
Not if Mary can help it. Pops open that bottle of whisky again
Whack him over the head again!
they took you away already, unfortunately soon after you were returned.
I must admit I lost it completely when @brucelea just downed the whisky I handed to you and continued to slap you around. I wanted to go “How dare you Sir!”, but I had to mute the mic instead, laughing so hard.
It’s how my RPG characters seem to be going recently lol
Wibble
Slightly bemused that @dracs can’t seem to grasp why I can be playing an RPG. Am I being stereotyped? It’s ok for me to go all Hong Kong Phooey on people but I can’t play an overweight, bald, pompous, sexist buffoon who collects antiquities for the British Museum ???
I thought it was more who is Brucelea… lol
Oh………….fair one then,
Like I’m going to believe someone who spends most of his time swaying in the corner of a Library going WIBBLE!
Wibble
I thought it was more “isn’t Bruce Lee dead?”
?
Rumours my dear, nothing more than rumours. That Jackie Chan has a lot to answer for. ?
I think rpg’s are amusing and should be taken that way and for people it relax and have a laugh and defeat the bad guys. Cthulhu is certainly one of those and Vampire underneath it all is high comedy fantasy at its best
Well at least ours were and ended up as a cross between Love at first bite and What we do in the shadows ( We played long before this came out) so probably more carry on screaming and hammer horror films and we had a great time
Happy Sunday to all, including the voice hiding behind the microphone. 🙂
When will windows be activated?
Never that’s how they get you!
Play School flashbacks?
Humpty “fell off a wall” they won’t get me the same way!
I never trusted Hamble. I’m sure she was a high priestess of the old ones
a typical robot chicken aquaman stunt Lol.
https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=robot+chicken+aquaman&&view=detail&mid=7078DDCE2D11B76A60517078DDCE2D11B76A6051&&FORM=VRDGAR
a Great XLBS folks I think music/noises for games helps a lot with the moods for games.
Hmm interesting topics, Spacehulk definitely is tension. Can’t under Sam-quaman!
Morning all and a happy weekend (*cough cough* Monday)
Late to the party, long weekend?
Yeah but not in the way u mean. Just crazy busy at the mo.
I think that was the best conversation that has occurred in the new format XLBS. Well done, team!
Gerry’s a genius (Dr. Evil Genius), the gaming session has been a blast, looking forward to next monday 😀
I’m sure nothing unnecessary will harm you all. You have, practically, nothing to worry about
hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm………. now I’m even more worried
My advice would be to avoid dark and mysterious 2nd hand bookshops
I know I’m late… is it just me or is the sound sub par this week? Let’s see how it develops…
Did it improve?
slightly but I may be because a) the start was rather loud laughing which got a little less loud when the subject got on emotions plus b) Ben’s audio isn’t very good to start with. It’s the typical “Skype compressed” sound. All in all serviceable but was a bit weird at the beginning. (I almost always use headphones that why those thing pop up in my head easily… plus I’m an audiophile of sorts….)
Happy Sunday
Is it just me or is the sound in this one absolutely crap? I actually had to stop watching/listening as it was hurting my ears :C Sound like you used an 8k codec or something.
Happy Belated Sunday! Wonderful show as ever. I have to say I think Gerry and Ryan encapsulated so well so many of my feelings on these topics.
I’ve really enjoyed AoS: Champions, mostly through the physical card game, I do wish GW would support it more in their stores because it can be a bit tricky to find sometimes when new bits have come out. I am blessed to live in a city that has numerous gaming stores and cafe’s but MTG tends to command the shelf-space for card games most of the time.
Key Forge didn’t appeal to me to an extent because of the lack of deck building, but still keen to try it especially with that buy-in. It certainly suffers from v1.0 rule FAQ problems, but so does pretty much every game and I am sure they will be cleared up very quickly. Amanda and I really enjoyed the game, and have picked up some extra decks to try other things out. However, what has gone against it slightly is the play-time. The very nature of the game is you are always working to try and stop your opponent from progressing to forge a key, so you are always keeping something in reserve that is going to stop them or force them back. This push-pull can lead to quite long stalemates before someone breaks through and forges another key. So it’s a bit too long to be a lunch-time game or a “quick” game. The game length feels a bit at odds with the investment level and the pick-up-and-play nature of the rules. Still, from a commercial stand-point we have so far bought 4 decks, so they must be doing something right!