A reply to GW from Wayland Games
May 23, 2011 by beerogre
Richard, the CEO and webstore demi-god in charge of Wayland Games has issued a personal message to fans of GW and his customers, addressing the latest message from GW and other concerns.
Hi Everyone,
Before we start, if you'd allow me to present a little background about Wayland before we get into the meat of the issue I'd be grateful.
We laid out our little web store back in August 2008, our beginnings were humble, with my brother and I packing orders in a spare room. It wasn't ideal but it was what we had to start with and we grew and grew through the continued business of our loyal customers through four warehouses to our current location. In thirty three months we have gone from a spare room in Essex, UK with my brother and I packing boxes to a global operation with fourteen full time staff which is now positioned as one of the largest if not the largest independent hobby retailer in the world. We run our business today as we always have done, in a professional and ethical manner both within the letter and the spirit of the law. Almost all suppliers like us, customers enjoy our openness and service-oriented outlook and whilst we're realistic enough to know we're not by any means perfect we will always strive to improve to ensure our central tenet of great prices and better service.
Managing such growth has been far from simple; we have experienced growing pains like any business in any sector that has exploded in market share terms. Our growing pains have also been more painful as we continually seek to adjust to a shifting commercial landscape from our dominant supplier, Games Workshop. Like many of you, I believe that Games Workshop produce a fantastic product which gives endless joy to countless people. I am proud to be associated with them. Unsurprisingly, therefore, I read with real concern the statement by the CEO Mark Wells over the new trade terms which effectively prevents us selling Games Workshop supplied products outside Europe. Mark’s statement can be found here
Mark seems to be clearly of the view that on-line retailers ( and we are not purely that, of course given our bricks and mortar presence) “free ride” on the back of Games Workshop’s bricks and mortar outlets. We have sought over the years, and I thought with some success and recognition, to demonstrate to Games Workshop the value that we provide not just in terms of sales but also in terms of pre and after sales service (not to mention our activities at trade fairs), which is clearly equivalent to the service that is provided on the “ground” by bricks and mortar outlets. Quite aside from the legality of Games Workshop’s actions, we are confused by the commercial attitude of Games Workshop which hampers our ability to sell to hobbyists to the clear disadvantage of both Games Workshop (albeit maybe not their retail arm) and the hobbyists themselves.
I will not air anyone’s dirty laundry in public. Therefore, I am writing to Games Workshop separately (its board, lawyers and their principal shareholders) to share my concerns in greater depth. I hope that commercial common sense will prevail and that we can continue to work with Games Workshop to expand their market and bring a great product to as many people as possible at the best price possible. After all, Games Workshop not only has a clear responsibility to the market but also a clear responsibility to its shareholders (which, after all, could be you and me!).
In the meantime, we believe after the announced terms are implemented we shall be able to continue to offer all of our loyal customers the same product range that we offer today. There may be a small lead time to implement but we've been given a rather short period to react. We will comply fully and completely with the new terms and conditions of sale imposed upon us and will not contravene them in any capacity whatsoever (albeit we would not wish that to be seen as acceptance of their legality), all we seek to achieve is that customers both old and new are able to benefit from our view of the market wherever they are located. We all love our hobby.
Over the next few weeks we'll be providing updates as to how the process of implementing these changes is coming along, the chances are we'll use Facebook to disseminate this information as it is a great platform for customers to interact with us and each other.
We look forward to continue to serve you and we always will.
Keep on Wargaming.
Richard
Wayland Games
If you have any response that you want to make, Richard reads our site and often contributes to discussions, so there's a good chance he'll read your comment.
As I said in the other post about the actual Mark Wells letter, if a company ceo had described my business in the way he did Wayland Maelstrom and other online retailers, I’d be seeing him in court. Its difficult for these guys, GW products must make up a huge percentage of their total sales, so getting legal with them could be a case of commercial suicide (which is exactly why Wells thinks he can say such things in the first place of course). I think stepping away from the whole restriction of trade issue, which I hope Wayland etc… Read more »
We see this problem in a lot of industries today. Games Workshop made their first mistake by even getting into the retail side of the equation…..just another example of greed. You either want to be a Wholesaler or a retailer….it’s hard to be both. If you do want to do both then the only place to buy GW products is from them exclusively. Otherwise you will always be stepping on the other retailers toes. I truely believe they should only sell Wholesale to local shops and online stores. Local shops are always a better choice as opposed to “corporate” chain… Read more »
P.S. I any of you own a small local hobby shop….you need to be selling your inventory online AND out of the shop or you will go under eventually. The local Hobbyland stores in our area are going down….they don’t sell online. The only store I know in our area that is making it is promoting in store gaming nights every night of the week. The times they are a changin’…..either step up and compete or go under…….how about my concept for a “HOBBY CENTER”…..brick and mortar store, online store, gaming areas, snack bar, flatscreen lounge, free painting area, gaming… Read more »
The problem there is GW didn’t ‘get into the retail side’ . GW was a retail hobby shop, selling DnD and its ilk, and laterly created warhammer RPG themselves, long before they became manufacturers as they are now. The shops came first. Indeed, from memory, the miniature line (citadel) and the paint line(the predecessor of coat d’arms) were separate companies they subcontracted and eventually bought up. I do think though that the internet and the global marketplace its created means the retail and manufacturing sides , along with wholesale, no longer function in the way it did 20 years ago,… Read more »
Very interesting! If the shops came first and they created the Warhammer genre later, aquiring and getting into the manufacturing and wholesale side…I think they should continue selling to small shops and online stores without reprisals….the GW stores will simply have to step up and compete on price! The GW stores have to give someone the strong desire to go in…as John said below….service and comradere is the key here…..but they also must compete on price.
As a loyal customer of Wayland Games i have to say I only ever buy Games Workshop products through Wayland so if GW stop supplieing them i wont be buying anymore GW products, simple’s 🙂 Its sad but i am loosing all faith in GW, i wish they would sort themselves out.
I’m no legal expert (obviously, otherwise I would be a lawyer) but, as I stated on TGN, I think Wayland have avenue to push back against this change. Article 82EC of the EU Commercial and Competition law states that (not the exact wording…) ‘refusal to supply is an abuse when it is an action taken by a dominant company in order to stifle competition’. This is called ‘abuse of position’. So, by changing their terms, they can refuse to supply a retailer if they sell to the banned area, which ‘can be seen’ as an ‘abuse of position’ to stifle… Read more »
Thanks Gavin
Elsewhere it has been stated that GW are entitled to act as they have.
Not having a background in commerce I cannot refute, but intuitively it felt what GW have done is anti-competitive and restricts free trade. It seemed to me that the practice ought not be allowed.
It is good to at least see an actual refrerence to some EU Trading Regs..
rather shocking how GW are shooting themselves in the foot of late, but also how they are taking retailers like Wayland down with them. That ain’t right bro.
God Bless Wayland!* hums British national anthem* A company we can be proud of!
And I should say more, Maelstrom and Wayland, please continue working like you have always done!!
Don´t let GW stupid CEO´s compromise your trades worldwide…
yes i got this in my email from wayland too seems gw are alienating everyone shame really
Thanks guys for the update, I hope you guys at Wayland can reach a “common” ground with GW. I still fail to understand how it makes any sense for GW to be doing this. I no longer buy in store (although I’d like to), and haven’t for a while now & don’t buy from them direct because I know I can get a discount (like any other sensible consumer would – as it stands I am taking a long sabbatical from GW until/if they sort themselves out) – now times this by 100 & that’s how people in Australia &… Read more »
Hats off to Wayland on this one. The whole matter is a joke. I believe GW think they have more clout than they actually have. For example do you remember all the cease and desists? How many people turned round and said “Sorry I can’t hear you! Might wanna get off that pedestal and join the real world” Same thing should happen here. A large company like GW does need a slap in the face and told to wise up before they ruin the hobby they apparently love so much. On the flip side however I do buy from my… Read more »
I agree John there in a position to ruin the hobby if left unchecked…
Well said!
It seems to me like GW need to be reminded who keeps them in business, maybe all the independant stockests need to collectivly say ” Thats it, no more, we will not sell GW products in store or online anywhere” then see how long it takes GW to realise how much they have lost by forcing people into one of their stores.
Let GW go bankrupt. The games’ rights will be sold to another company that know how to do business…
If GW are so concerned about others making profit from there product, they should only sell there product from there own stores and there website.
What there doing is trying to do is have there cake and eat it.
And that’s just not on.
Well I pulled a couple of replies that could be deemed as in poor taste to only size up this one thing. That Richard may have failed to mention. Wayland deals with more than just GW. Even if things are smoothed out over this issue. I’m still not buying GW, its too over the top. It will be all the other great products offered by wayland.
Another point is not everyone has a hobby store near them to make purchases and we rely solely on internet purchases, to further our hobby.
Hey guys we waited like all weekend to have youtube get on with it and unload the BOW channel and nothing has happened.
I for one would like to have the bow channel back
Here’s the contact info. for youtube join me in letting them know how we feel about it…
http://www.youtube.com/t/contact_us
thanx
Let these guys take over GW and toss the board or whatever control entity the company slaves under in front of a herd of stampeding buffalo.
Change your pic, thats disgusting!
yeah though I do see the humor in it.( a little….) It’s quite inappropriate for some of the younger members of our community. Sorry about it, really none of my business but yeah. please understand
I live in the UK so im not affected but i still feel for my fellow wargamers who are affected. I buy from the GW store when im starting a new army so then i can chat with the guys there on whats best to get and maybe pick up some tips and tactics. When im just buying stuff to add to an existing army then i buy from Wayland. If Wayland are able to carry on as selling to outside europe that would be great, so fingers crossed they can! 🙂
That’s the thing though even here in the UK we would be affected, if not directly.
If retailers such as Wayland are forced to stop supplying some of their customers they lose money, which could very well have knock on effects that these retailers have to pass on in price increases or reduction of services to customers within their own country.
For me in Sweden, I’m very dependent on internet suppliers, why you ask, because I live in south Sweden, the closest GW store for me is a train ride northbound for about 3-4 hours, or I can go to another country to get my GW stuff, sure we have some small independant stores but to go to them is a game of chance, many times the stuff I’ve been after is out. Yeah I know that we all should give them a hard time when they act like this and don’t buy their stuff, but i can’t help my love… Read more »
Ethzor, are you perhaps refering to the GW store in Stockholm? If so I think that one has been shut down, wasn’t there a couple of weeks ago when I visited Stockholm.
Good on you Richard!
Hey and don’t worry, With the huge amount of people shifting and turning to different games I’m sure you’ll ride it out. Especially with Mantic possibly releasing a Sci-fi game somtime. Wayland is going to be VERY busy 😉
*Hats off
Perhaps the saddest part of an all out boycott of GW is that companies like Wayland will feel the consequences of “nerd rage” as well, which is rather unfair since, unlike GW, Wayland is obviously still trying to push the hobby forward. Don’t get me wrong something needs to be done, and there will always be collateral damage, I just wish that the right people i.e. GW suffer, not independent retailers trying to make a decent living.
does anyone have a good idea to stick it to GW then? something that won’t affect these guys who do what gw should be doing.
Well the obvious way would be to stop buying GW products and instead take the money you would have spent and buy rules and/or models from the large range of other companies supplied by Wayland, and other retailers.
That way the retailers don’t lose money, but they won’t sell out of GW product as fast, so won’t need to order more GW stock, which in turn hits GW.
I think that’s how it would work anyway.
I agree with asmodai… but like a couple of other people said Wayland doesn’t only sell GW. If they work with other game producers to take advantage of this situation, they could diversify their sales and increase the market share of other companies like Privateer, Fantasy Flight, Dream Pod 9 and Infinity. Then hopefully GW will start to get the point that a large portion of us do have other interests. And even though we like GW products alienating us will only drive us to pursue those other interests more. The problem with being on top is it takes some… Read more »
Like almost every fellow wargamer, i am also furious about the recent changes GW has made. You can either complain about it for another week or 2 and then buy their new “finecast” products for unreasonable prices, OR you can just switch to a different Game System. I already ordered my Infinity Army, and right now i am trying to make it more popular in my gaming club. The thing is, only complaints will not solve anything, you would actually have to invest money in other companies, so they can get a bigger market share. Be it Warmachine, Hordes, Infinity,… Read more »
Wow, I had no idea Wayland Games was made up of such a bunch of cry babies. Just grow up and get over it. GW is tiered of you devaluing their products and screwing over the local retail stores. Suck it up and take your licks like everyone else in business who has difficulties to overcome. I’m not saying I agree with everything GW has done but don’t forget it is just as simple a decision not to sell their products to Wayland as it is to sell their products to Wayland. Be grateful they have not completely banned your… Read more »
*ahem* simply no… just no.
God Save Wayland Games…
Why did GW make this stupid decision, they are still makign money through them in whatever form.
Wayland Games and Mark… I salute for all you have done!
Let GW see there mistakes… and they will just make another price rise and stop all Indy’s from selling…
Nice of Mark Wells to pop in isn’t it everyone? Hello Mark…
LOL
You actually made me lol, well done sir
the only way I can see of supporting wayland and other independents is to go find other game systems that you like and buy from them. sorry if thats already been said but thats what i’m, doing it still supports independents but kicks GW in the metaphorical teeth
@dirtydog35: I don’t really know what to say to that, apart from I suppose every village must have it’s idiot
Words escape even me on this one 🙂
Just took advantage of waylands voucher, plus getting my order in before the price hike.
Got myself some warhammer, avatars or war, perry miniatures and wargames factory zombies.
But with 12 fulltime staff at wayland, that cost to me is only an hour of waylands wages xD
Then all of the other orders made in that hour are puure profit! Halleluja!
I got to hand it to Wayland and the others that have this hurtle to overcome. Im from Canada and have made the decision to buy from Wayland even if the price is on par with the stores just to say that I support them. I don’t know the law very well, but Canada has strict rules in place to prevent unfair market fixing. This is the Competition Bureau of Canada http://www.competitionbureau.gc.ca/eic/site/cb-bc.nsf/eng/h_02758.html#ShareContainer have to say about some slanted practices. Grant it GW is dealing with a company in Britain and online, so I don’t know if this applies with them.… Read more »