TURN 8: Confrontation, Video Games & Exclusive Minis
July 15, 2011 by beerogre
Well my friends this was the first TURN * without Warren... was it good... bad... indifferent... or do you just miss the big man as much as we do?
Tonight's show had terrain (both Dave Graffam's awesome paper minis and Micro Art Studio's sensational foam radar station), Confrontation, Dark Age and the brand new Dwarf Kings Hold: Green Menace!
We discussed whether exclusive miniatures at conventions are fair play or foul (check out the exclusive MERCS and Malifaux minis)... and if tabletop and video games can ever get along together.
If you enjoyed it, drop a comment below... if you didn't... well then why I oughta!
Until next time guys.
Supported by (Turn Off)
Supported by (Turn Off)
Supported by (Turn Off)
Please staple Darrell’s trousers on before you start rolling.
Yes please… I’m gay, but I’m not THAT gay…
BoW Romain
Not even Elton John is that gay.
I think you’d have to be blind… and even then you’d still have 4 other senses that wouldn’t have an excuse…
Canne’ wait lads – should be awesome. I have the beers in already and shall be camping on Justin.tv soon 😉
If Darrells’ latest win is a colostomy bag, and he demonstrates it, I’ll never watch again.
Oh sweet lord. DON’T GIVE HIM IDEAS! Seriously that’s like coating your hand in Jack Daniels BBQ sauce and shoving it into an alcoholic cannibals mouth.
Hmmm.. something else to ad to my long list of Things I Must Never Do.
7am is hazardous to my health to be up for a Wargaming video…
Oh yay! Turn 10, I may watch the first hour but that’ll be it.
After the nappy if darrel’s got MC Hammer trousers on we’ll know it’s incontinence pants this week!
Looking foward to it…intrigue abounds at the ‘super-secret’ – whiskey on stand by 🙂
Are you going to do any giveaways during the show? i only ask because i dont think im going to be able to make it to watch the show live tonight 🙁
@nova3k Yes… there’s some cool Mantic stuff to give away tonight!
Remember to set your Tweeting fingers to @beastofwar to enter.
You might want to have the Mantic website on hand to if you’re looking for the answer to the question.
Are you going to try and crash the Mantic web site this week then?
Is Twitter still going to be the only way we get to interact with you guys? I’d like to get involved, but Twitter aint my thing.
@echilda Twitter will be needed to enter the competition, as Twitter saves the tweets so the winners can be selected at the end of the show.
We’ll try to monitor the Justin TV chat, but it moves very quickly and we won’t be using it to run the competition.
Ok thats fair enough! Thanks for the quick response!
Cant wait for the show tonight!! But I will have to watch it tomorrow as I have a long night of work ahead of me. (One man/two chins down)
Time to open a nice bottle of Whisky and wait for the show. 🙂
man down! man down!
would be intresting to watch it, but I am working early in the morning, will see the recorded show in the morning after work.
Thanks for accepting that we’re too lazy to google the start time in our particular time zone. XD
where is it, was it not supoosed to start know ?
Will begin in a few minutes Icewolff – just keep a watch for it.
Let us know what is happening guys !
ok, first time vieuwer, so i was not sure i was on time, thanks.
Technical issues ? maybe you need a mechanicum adept to say a few words over it ?
it is getting real late here and have to work tomorrow, so is there a second date when it will be broadcasted ?
good show guys, good job Andy on the lead-host!
Right…*cracks fingers*
Exclusive Models and Conventions
Thinking about what I said on another comment section I still say that conventions with exclusive miniatures should always be vanilla in terms of rules but still retain the special sculpts that we have seen before. Having special rules and special characters only available from conventions causes a headache in my opinion and doesn’t keep a very level playing field between those who just can’t afford to get out to these conventions (more on this later). As much as it pains me to say it; Games Workshop has the right idea. A model should be special and a one off, not available at a later date like the Chaos Sorcerer from last year, or the Skaven Warlord from this coming one. An impressive model but with no particular special rules attached too it.
Now onto conventions themselves. We simply don’t have enough of them over here in the UK and even in the wider community of Europe. Sure we have Salute, and a few others including Games Day but we simply don’t have anything on the same scale as Gen-Con or PAX; all fantastic conventions that we NEED to be able to get too over here in Europe. The price of getting flights and hotels and everything in between to just go and see the miniatures and enjoy these places is incredibly limiting for us here in Europe. Heck, even SJGames and other companies are selling their card and board games at these places and we just will not get a look in until much later.
Video Games & Table Top Games
Lloyd and Justin are right on this one. Video games and Table top games can exist on the same playing field and help each other, but as I tweeted about – only if it is done right. An example of it done right is something like Dawn of War, or Space Marine which will be out in September. An example of it done wrong? Blood Bowl and Tau: Fire Warrior. And there is a very simple reason behind why they have not done as well.
A video game adaptation from the table top should not be in any way alike to the techniques and style of the table top experience. It shouldn’t be turn based in the case of something like 40k or Warhammer, and it really shouldn’t claim to be so. What a video game can do, and something Lloyd picked up on, is give us the essence and feeling of that game, but in a way that we just couldn’t get from our table top experiences. If you look at Space Marine – this is totally what they are doing. They have taken what we LOVE about marines and made it into an Action Adventure game. The game just simply Would.Not.Be.Fun if they made it a direct translation of the table top. We wargamers buy these video games because they allow us to see our hobby in a different and semi-realistic light, getting to know what a bolter sounds like…or as Lloyd pointed out, how a Tyranid talks! 😉
This is where Blood Bowl failed. It tried to make it SO much like the table top experience, it made it utterly boring to sit there and play by yourself against a computer. Where it should have excelled at and learnt from is taking the over the top comedic violence and made it a simple real time experience, compared to the turn based they did implement…without this we as wargamers were going ”well why don’t I just go and play this with my buddies on the table top?”.
The new Warmachine game which is coming out has got the right idea. It isn’t the table top game just given a 3D rendering. It’s an action game (from what we know) which has used the fluff and the background of the world of Warmachine and give the fans of the game exactly what they want – a different version of their beloved hobby.
Also, it works the other way round as well. Just look at Civilization The Board Game by Fantasy Flight Games. A perfect rendition of the beloved computer game bought to life on cardboard with little figures…and from what we know, the Gears of War game is going to be the same.
Anything else on the matters raised here I would be utterly glad to debate with you folks.
Just a quick comment on a detail: wasn’t the computer game based on the board game Civilisation in the first place?
As far as convention excusivity goes, i like Mercsmini’s model of releasing a miniature for something that already exists. This way everyone has the same opportunity, but those who went to the con have the unique miniature. This way there is no unfare advantage rules-wise, and the lucky collector who got the unique mini still has bragging rights.
Yeah if you guys did a vote for who does the turn8, i would be voting Darrel. Sorry.
I think Darrel doesnt like playing on computers.
It was a good one even with Warren missing, and it was only about half an our late!
It was alright but it did degenerate into arguing a bit – need a single man to take the helm I think. Dwarf Kings hold green menace looks interesting
to DARREL.
I agree with you somewhat, however, play portal 2, then think about it.
Andy likes Dynasty Warriors? good man me2, that would be a awesome miniature game (romance of the 3 kingdoms) some1 make it happen :p
Add in Journey to the West and I’m in, my all time favourite classic Chinese story. Have read it a couple of times. keep trying to read romance of three kingdoms too
Im a Huuuuge romance of the 3 fan ive read it played every dynasty warrior game and the rotk games and watched the old animes and the movies Chibi is such a good movie and the chinese drama from 2010 was about 100eps very good.
Here’s my view of Limited edition at shows and and 40k in general
“He who has the most money wins.”
Meaning those that can afford to buy the the cool things and go to shows are the ones that are going to win the games. For me I found with 40k that I could never afford much of it so I didn’t win much. Now I’m an older poor guy but a bit wiser and like playing skirmish games with free rules! But unfortunately I still can’t afford to go to conventions like Gen Con to get those limited edition figs. Darrell kind of pissed me off with his elitist attitude because it’s like he doesn’t want poor people to play. He may have meant kids or band wagon players but really it comes down to money and who can afford to get that squad of terminators and who can’t.
I don’t know if this was mentioned but Infinity is going to have a limited edition figure that you can get when you buy an Infinity Battlefoam bag. Again sucks for me because even if I needed it I couldn’t afford it.
As far as video games go. Well as I just said i’m a bit poor so I couldn’t even afford DoW2. Which is not that expensive. I have an old Wii with mainly games for my kids.
The MERCS mini is a prize for the winner of the tourney, it is still the same mini in game as the model it represents, just prettier.
Is there a way (live or not) to watch turn8 on an iPad? The embedded player on the webpage does not show on iPad ;-(
Limited edition show minis don’t bother me, I’m agoraphobic so I can’t make it to shows at all – but I see the business sense in it which I think is sound and logical. I don’t feel I’m missing much anyway – I have yet to see a show-exclusive Shoggoth or Flying Polyp miniature, which would be about the only things id feel terrible for missing out on.
Will you ever release Go For Yer Guns to the non-backstagers?
They did say that it was a bit far away at the moment. They probably will at some point, but its still being tested and played with by the backstagers at the moment. Fingers crossed 🙂
Another brilliant and very entertaining show, guys! The only thing, Darrell sounds like Randy Marsh from the latest South Park episode: “Back in my day… rubba, rubba, rubba!” As for the new Warmachine video game: I was at Lock & Load, and got to talk to quite a few of the chaps about it’s development and direction, and they were all genuinely excited about bringing their world to life in a slightly different way… far more then just “Pimping their IP.”
And as for the best platoon-level tabletop war game, Secrets of the 3rd Reich: the only thing wrong with it is that Westwind can’t get more releases out quicker! If all you do it base the game around building the biggest, terriblest, killiestest mecha you can, you’re doing it wrong, and should probably leave the dairy farm before you drown in all that cheese. 😉
grrr i was in bed ill! the first turn 8 ive missed :'(
I find Darrell arrogant and his attitude to ‘keeping people out of his level of gaming’ is a terrible thing to say , some people have lives and they enjoy Gaming as a pastime , a HOBBY!
Late t the party, but I will add my thoughts.
For start I think Darrell has failed to grasp how Infinity plays, yes you can pump all your orders on a single strong miniature (and loose it, or the rest of your force in a very short time) but it is not usually advised because of how the game plays, risk and resources management on how many orders will be spend and were is a key feature on how Infinity works.
On LEMs, I do not have a problem as long as they are not tied up in a geographical location or bound to an item, not related to the game itself, You may see it as a benefit to going in a convention, I and many others see it as a penalty on not having the time and money to go to another country/ continent, want to give it in the convention? sure sell it on your webshop at the same time.
Finally CGs have improved much, not only on graphics but on sophistication of doing things on screen, of course the key concept would be the same, one could argue we have not moved much over chess or backgammon with this logic, sure the detail on the sculpts has gone quite a way up, but you still move pieces around and dice help determine the resolution (intentionally be so blunt), the concept of the game may be the same, that does not mean the overall gameplay would not be the same and I disagree that kill teams with Infinity skins would be equally the same, in 40k marines are there to take a hail of fire, laugh at it and make sure whoever was stupid enough to shoot them, dies horribly, in Infinity even the most armoured trooper will never be able to do that, not even in the background, cover, technology and sophisticated equipment is used to survive the day, is a 40k gameplay game had Infinity skins, it would not be faithful to the background.
Andy great job in the Captain’s Chair.
Darrell did you know in the US buying alcohol for a 20 year old is illegal.
Andy was as good as always but Darrell gave impression that he is doing this just to boost his own ego.
It’s good to see that all you other guys have a voice when Warren isn’t there. Don’t get me wrong, Warren is a star IMO, it’s just nice to hear everyone elses opinions – refreshing!
I say have John present on the table
I have something to say about Limited Edition models. I hate the idea that they spend the time and effort to make a model for a limited run/time. They instead of making a ‘normal’ model that will be there for ever they spend their time making something that will be out for a weekend/whatever.
If those are just early release of a model then I am all for that. A nice little bonus for those that counted their pennies, saved their money and showed up. Then later down the road those that have real lives can pick up the models after making sure they can pick up milk and baby formula.
it really sucks when the ltd ed is 6 trillion times better than the stock one- eg Celia from Anima tactics
Darrel’s right about video games , not many companies want to take risks anymore .everything has to be a fps,look what they did to front mission.
Warren is great and all… but, I get tired of him always talking and everyone else barely gets a word in. He also interrupts people mid-sentence time and time again… It is really exasperating.
I liked the version of Turn 8 today. I liked that everyone got a word in. It was very refreshing. Warren can talk too… just not as much…
Whats with the broadcasting soon bullshit? its always on the Justin TV vids
Great (level volumed) turn 8. Shame I couldn’t watch it live, beer and crisps at 5.30pm seem like a good plan now though!!
Andy, you and your sources must not know how to click a mouse. Otherwise, if you took 5 minutes to look in the Wyrd forums, you would see that any of the Malifaux miniature at Gen Con are also for sale on their web store during the weekend of Gen Con. In addition, the limited editions do not have their own rules, they are just alternate models for rules already published or in the 3rd book that comes out at Gen Con. I find it hard to believe you couldn’t find this information.
Wow… did viewers just find their voices, or have we gotten more touchy?
i vote darrel for on the table XD. plz that would be so funny and ace lol
I love Warren, but he so much louder than the rest of you my girlfriend keeps telling me to turn it down. When I do I can’t hear the rest of you.
Darrel is right the table top game has always been more fun then the computer games based on the same IP.
So any news on Collision to share??? hmmmm?? or are we going to have to wait till gen Con coverage?
am I the only person in the world who can’t see the video?