Cult Of Games XLBS: Is A Boom Or Bust Coming To The Tabletop Gaming Industry?
September 4, 2022 by warzan
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It’s the XLBS Show…………Happy Sunday Fellow CoGs!
I will miss seeing @fcostin on the XLBS and the Weekenders. You have been a welcome addition to the group that keeps us up to date on Hobby news and wacky zaniness things!
Much luck on the next adventure Good Lady!
Thank you so much 🙂 Means a lot! Ah you’ll never fall short on the Wacky and Zany so long as Gerr continues to keep ya on your toes!
@warzan I have been thinking of trying the ‘One Page Rules’ with my old Warmachine and Hordes miniatures.
Congrats to the Golden Button Winners! Well DONE.
@avernos I do love my Warmachine World. But if Mk4 rules and fluff are all digital then MK3 may be my last edition. I hate to say never, but I don’t like digital only. If they let me take it to a print shop and print it, then maybe. I love to flip through a book and look for a while. The other thing that I don’t like is that Companies have now been showing their hand in removing and changing books. DnD Beyond just recently edited a digital book and didn’t tell folks ahead of time, they just did it. I don’t like that. Maybe I like the original version. They should allow us to lock a digital book so it can’t be altered. But I’m a Grognard. Oh well………….
yeah … getting a specific version and not being forced to have it updated is why I prefer physical media.
You don’t get to own a digital file in the way that you can own a physical one, unless they release it as DRM-free material.
DRM won’t stop gits from breaking that ‘protection’ either.
It inevitably hurts the good guys who need to make backups to ensure that they still have a copy once the company bites the dust.
It’s practically been proven that the best way to stop people from using illegal copies is to make it more convenient to own the legit one. Provide good service and people that matter will be happy to pay whatever you need for your product(s). This is kind of why Netflix and other streaming services have managed to reduce the piracy of movies and tv-series …
Happy Sunday,
may all get to watch the Greatest movie ever made
for me i have cut back on my paterons, i went down to I think 50 a month instead of 80. i did start buying more product for producing minis in fdm and resin
I remember Gerry,myself and Stevie K…trying out a similar method to slapchop on Warmaster figures using GW inks
I think the current financial problems with energy prices, inflation and shipping are going to negatively impact the purchase of the luxury items… like gaming stuff.
When it comes down to a choice of eating and keeping warm, or buying another box of plastic that you don’t need… the choice is survival.
GW and their greedy “every three months a new starter box” strategy has put me off buying Kill Team: Into The Dark… which I was considering for the terrain and Breachers… but knowing they’ll want another 100 quid in 3 months for the next terrain stopped me.
Andy at Heresy has already announced he’s fucked and reckons he has 6 to 9 months left to trade
Yup saw that post, I know I’m going to be seriously cutting down hobby spending if not stopping altogether, what I do buy is most likely honey supplies to work on my mountain of Backlog, maybe finish of WW3, Byzantine and Castles on the sky.
When your electric bill goes from £32 to £325 a month the small guys don’t stand a chance
Au revoir @fcostin. In the words of Sgt. Esterhaus…Let’s be careful out there
I thought that was what they said after roll call in Hill Street Blues?
Wow… thinking about that series makes be feel very old…
It is and I am as well
From Hill Street Blues to Kagney and Lacey on that motif. Yep, find that game of 7TV and the appropriate minis to fill in for a session. You could just update to today with more modern police and play out COPS.
Thank you, tis a funny world on the outside 🙂
Before the hobby comment, I just want to say that I am sorry to hear Free is leaving, and wish her well in the future. You’ve been a breath of fresh air on the team and I hope they can create a similar panel of diverse perspectives (without just going back to bullying Justin ?).
Hope you stick around the community and keep us posted with your hobby and projects!
Thank you so much for the lovely words, the further I go down the page the more choked I am getting! Ah I will still be around, I have a few projects I need to finish for sure! 🙂
I’ve read about an experiment where someone sneaked in ‘art’ made by monkeys in a museum … and most ‘experts’ couldn’t tell.
As such I’m not surprised that “AI” can “win” art contests 😉
Can we gift backstage passes again ?
I remember that being a thing back in the Beast of War days …
I also hope that we can bring back the scratchbuilding again ?
There’s been soo much focus on buying stuff that is almost complete that people may have forgotten that we can use cardboard and other bits and pieces to make terrain fun again.
To think that apps / software can replace printed books because it is ‘cheaper’ is delusional at best.
The machines hosting those apps still need to be maintained and they still cost money.
You are merely replacing one cost factor with another. The only possible thing you can ‘win’ is the time it costs to ship to the other side of the world.
@fcostin remember that after rain comes sunshine. You will find your happy place again even though it may not look that way right now. It’s been great to see and hear your happy voice here on OTT.
Wev will all miss you Free, but we will miss the cat even more.lol
And I will miss you all dearly! Pascal will continue to only care about himself. My lil wierdo.
Interesting discussion this morning, and I took comfort from @warzan ‘s view that we are not suddenly going to be hit with STLs as our only option. I know that one day I’ll have to embrace the 3D printing, and I may even enjoy it when it becomes more plug and play, but right now I’m at a point where, even if I wanted to become an computer scientist, engineer and a chemist, I don’t have anywhere to put a 3D printer safely.
I’m already at a point where I’m looking at Modiphius’ blended range of physical and STL products, and looking longingly at what I can’t have because I can’t print it and legally can’t hand the STL to a commercial 3D printing service. They introduced the STLs during the pandemic due to the manufacture and distribution issues, so it would be an easy survival lever to pull if they really needed to. And that’s scary to me right now.
A model of industrial 3D printing services in different geographic hubs sounds like a win win way forward, so I have my fingers crossed that’s the way it goes. Obviously I have great fondness for traditionally crafted miniatures, in the same way I have great nostalgia for perusing blister packs on a shop wall. Times have to change, but I hope the innovation drives win win situations and companies don’t just turtle up and take the easy option of making manufacture my problem!!
Slap chop – I’ve picked this up by accident, or by osmosis. I’ve a lot of models to paint for Quarantine 37, started painting the traditional way and caught myself. Safe to say GW’s tyranid range loves this method and I’ll get a project going at some point.
Free – sorry to see you go. Hope the next thing is fulfilling and filled with laughs.
I think the cost increases are the key here. We’ll see a lot of small businesses are going to feel the pinch. From smaller miniatures companies to local games shops, there’ll be a cull. I hope those folks can find a way to keep going financially and there’s some choice left in this industry in a few years. Yeah gloom.
Metal prices have gone down though
Thank you so much! I am honestly gutted myself, alas; that’s the plan!
*sprinkles glitter everywhere*
Hi XLBSers happy Sunday.
? Warren’s Hero’s ?
Lol well if that drunk woman can win awards for the junk from her bedroom floor then why not.
Ooh another technique worth trying.
Noooo Don’t do it Free it means talking to people’s an thing’s. Photo bomb the guy’s at all the tournaments then ?!? Lol.
Great idea! haha! AMBUSH!
More fantastic button winner’s.
Just burn the lecey bills.
I wish you to best Free, it has been fun having you around.
You can already see small companies going down with the use of kickstarter, asking for more funds to ship and saying that after the project their are closing the books.
As for spending, people will always spend money in leisure stuff to escape. The thing is will it be physical gaming? But this will depend from person to person. The sad thing is that it might go to mobile type games that only ask small mounts compared to psychical games that cost more but in the end they will probably have spend more on them that they have wished.
For myself I already don’t buy as much as I used to, with having storing issues but I probably am still going to buy the things I need to expand on the games I was already planning so I can finish them off.
Thank you! It really has been a barrel of laughs 🙂
Plastic is a bi-product of oil.
Happy Sunday.
Well, that came as a shock, I’m so sad to see that @fcostin is leaving but I wish her well in her future endeavours. Just one question, can we keep Pascal?
As for the rising costs, I’m keeping my eye open for now but I’ve already made small changes in non-hobby related things such as buying the cheaper brand of food items. I plan to wrap up more this winter rather than have the heating burning at the slightest hint of cold.
So basically I’ll cross the bridge when I come to it. Worst case for me is I don’t get new toys as often as I’d like and I’ll get more mileage out of the stuff I already have.
Thank you, means a lot and it has been an absolute laugh. I will still be around. And where I am, Pascal follows. It’s a package deal against my will.
I have a marine army an Ork army an half a guard army still boxed so no worries for reinforcements to add to games.
The big company’s will envelop the struggling one’s if they like the products they produce I think.
I see Gerry’s name isn’t up like everyone else so does that make him secret squirrel ? Lol.
Another good one guy’s.
A Tiger? In Africa?
What we’re currently seeing is the start of the recession or as some experts have called it an Economic Shit Storm. The UK is expected to hit an inflation high if 18-20% in January. The energy price is expected to go again in January and once more in April next year.
Over the next 12 months we’re going to see the effect of this year’s weather across the globe as it hits food prices. Crops in Europe, US and Asia have failed because of dry hot weather which has also impacted water resources.
Housing prices are expected to plummet globally over the next couple of years. This has been something that should have occurred years ago, but banks and governments gave been effectively sticky plastering the problem. So when this goes is going to hit hard. The big one will be the housing boom in China, that’s literally on a knife edge with several massive companies moments away from collapse.
So it would be stupid to think this won’t affect our hobby or the industry around our hobby in some way. Personally I think we’re going to see a lot of small companies disappear. Some of those games/ranges/products may get snapped up by bigger companies whilst some will just vanish.
Personally I plan to cut back on some areas…firstly GW stuff it’s too expensive before this mess occurred. I may use this as an excuse to sell off my painted GW items as I don’t really play 40K or AoS.
I’m scaling back the number of periods I play as well. I have a big chunk of unpainted miniatures so I don’t need to continually purchase stuff. I’ll focus on mainly replacing paints, brushes and other essential hobby items.
Sorry to hear @fcostin is leaving. Best of luck in whatever you are moving on to Free. Your different perspectives have been a welcome addition and I do hope we keep up the difference as the show moves forwards.
As to the recession, my hobby has always been largely recession proof. I’ll probably carry on in much the same way as I have, but am increasingly aware of transport costs and the impacts of distant manufacture and may well start to focus increasingly on printing at home. This will mean I’m less succeptible to the development and sales drives of the main market players. I’ve been into Strength and Honour in 2mm precisely because it is something I can print and play at home. I’ve not gone for some of the big GW releases this year, which I would have in former times, as a result. I can see that way of behaving developing more widely across the hobby.
Thanks a lot @zoidpinhead – it’s been wonderful to share my wild and whimsical ideas with like-minded peoples! As I said, there are not many places I can enthusiastically talk in detail about my psychotic care bear!
Free, you’ll be missed.
I’ve not fallen out of love with my 40k, in fact while I waited for the nausea to hit from the chemotherapy, I assembled five Cataphratii terminators for my Dark Angels. They aren’t done, but I’ve started feeling unwell. I’d not want to start drilling out combi bolter barrels, and have to stop to run to the bathroom to throw up.
On that slapchop painting method, it’s how I’ve always done my contrast Primaris stuff.
And I will my happy sundays! Thank you so much for the kind words!
I’m sorry to see @fcostin go. You will be missed and presently its slightly irritating as I almost have your part of the end of year special done. Life is life and we never know precisely how things will turn. Good luck in your new endeavor and pop around from time to time. Remember the end of ‘Labyrinth’ and the segment after Sarah gets her brother back.
I will be around for sure! Thank you so much for the nice words, you all will be truly missed!
Nerds, hobbyists and fellow gamers… winter is here. We will still be celebrating Giftmas.
I’ll miss @fcostin who was a perfect addition to the weekender and xlbs folks! All the best for the future and looking forward to reading your comments 😉 !
Hehehe, maybe I will be fighting for first comment on the odd weekender! And really excited to see more of Shay on screen! Thank you for the lovely words!
I think @avernos summarised it fairly well, the big boys may tighten there belts, but will weather things ok for the most part, the part timers probably still dabble.
But smaller indie setups maybe widely affected and interesting to see how youtubers reliant on subs fare with a once again housebound audience or will the pc get switched off…
@fcostin good luck with your next adventure and I do feel for Ben, with his Middle Earth and boardgame ally leaving to seek higher ground.
Hopefully for your last few shows you’ll get to finish what you started to say and not be interrupted, as those pearls of wisdom remain unsaid… Naughty Gerry and @warzan @58:57
Thank you so much! New adventures to attend to in the scary outside! Will miss the community so much.
Happy Sunday….and goodbye to the one true beauty on the show and no i am not talking about you Jerry.
Of course, you are talking about Gerry! Have you seen his beard!?
Best wishes @fcostin, you’ll be missed.
I wonder whether people may shop around a bit more with limited hobby budget. £50 can go a lot further if you look at alternative ranges and companies that aren’t in the mainstream spotlight as much, and it might encourage people to look at more game systems that are miniature agnostic as well.
I do worry for the smaller indie retailers. I’ve already seen a few start to carry less stock, and trying to arrange enough commitment/pre-orders from customers before organising casting. So I expect timelines for delivery to get stretched when buying from the smaller companies soon, especially those that use contract casters.
Thank you, and I will miss the community a ridiculous amount. Will still continue Happy Sundays out of principle. hehe 🙂
Has Ben got a bit of a mancrush on Jay of EonsofBattle???
Happy Monday!
Late to the show. I’ve been diving head first into Battletech (PC Game) after getting all DLC from a cheap Humblebundle.
No, fire you say? Don’t mind if I do… HAAAAAAAAAANS!
00:00 A John got replaced by some man in a dark cave
00:40 Whipper of boys? Oh my!
01:30 40k? What’s that weird stuff you’re talking about?
03:15 Bloody Mary!
05:40 AI art…. meh….
10:30 @warzan will show stuff….. please mark NSFW when appropriate 😉
12:00 cynical @brennon ? Is that even possible? 🙂
13:00 slap chop? CHOP CHOP! Head off!
16:30 old is the new new? Or is the new the old? I am confused.
19:15 Don’t flock the ferry, man! Don’t ever even fix the rice! Don’t flock the ferry, man! Or it won’t take you to the other side. AHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!
19:25 NACHTWOLF
19:30 BMB approved!
21:10 greatest lie all the 3D peeps tell themselves: “3D files don’t take up space! I can horde them.” And then they print them all and have a mountain of unpainted resin! *muahahahaha*
21:45 Back to the display? Pics or it didn’t happen! 8)
22:45 How the now what? Just when we got you into the pre-roll? and what about Pascal? He stays yes? YES? @fcostin
24:45 E-motion…. electrically propellant?
25:35 BOOOM!
28:00 fried pigeons!
29:00 painting for a living? let’s rephrase that to “paint to save your life!” XD
30:30 Pascl in the Background… embigulate!
33:45 Tune in for next weeks XLBS: HOW DID KIDS TV SHOW TUNES INFLUENCE OUR HOBBY
36:00 Shock to the system!
37:15 Well that explains a lot… not everything. But a lot.
42:30 caaaaaaaaaaaaaaake
43:30 yes. all of it. But primarily small businesses will close. And people will spend less. Ask me how I know. I just cut several patreons. And put a “no new system/game” on myself for this year.
45:40 P.o.O. – Pile of Opportunity! POO!
48:00 Why was young Warren there in the first place? I wonder.
50:00 Outlet? I need beer input!
52:10 “pass stuff around”? More like “bury them in metal and plastic!”
58:00 App driven stuff…. naaaah, I’m good. A proper e-book that could work on an e-book reader is something else. That’s just a file. But an app? nope.
1:04:00 low waist skirts!
1:07:00 Saaaaaaaaaaaaaaagaaaaa
Well. “Disposable income” is pretty much at zero for me. So don’t expect too much new stuff from me. I need to paint some P.o.O.
Now back to work
Edit: oh no! The comment tool messes up my text!
Pascal stays as my shadow, unfortunately! There’s no doubt he’ll continue the chaos. Sigh. Thanks dude, time for Gerry to successfully rock the buns now.
I will miss Free. She’s been a great addition to the show. It’s a similar feeling to losing Az ages ago but more so. Hope she’s on the way to bigger and better things.
Industry wise I worry about companies going bust. 4Ground shared some of their huge material and running cost hikes being a reason they had to close and now we have a situation where everything goes up and out strips wages by a long way. This doesn’t seem to be an industry to get into if you don’t love it and so few make fortunes doing it.
I have always spent in sales or at least very carefully because I don’t have to spend much before it starts to impact on my household budget. I don’t think I will stop spending entirely. I.e. the next Stargrave supplement is due out soon and I will probably be buying it. Though new game systems, big box sets and hefty Kickstarters are definitely off the menu. I will keep chipping away at my pile of potential and try and vindicate my spending by getting more games played.
Thank you so much, that means so much to me. You all really will be missed, and I will still be around! Have projects to finish and more whimsy to explore! hehe 🙂 Onto my next adventure!
@fcostin best of luck to you on your future endeavors, you’ll be missed. It was fun seeing you learn about tabletop games and getting your unique perspective on them.
As someone with zero interest in 3D printing I’m very interested in Privateer Press digitally enabled distribution plan. Should help considerably with shipping and distribution. Maybe @johnlyons will be able to get his BattleTech fix if Catalyst goes the same route.
Like @avernos I prefer physical rulebooks to PDFs. That being said, I recently got into Freeblades and their living rulebook is essentially a one time purchase with a lifetime subscription on updates. I’d still like a physical rulebook. Back in the mists of time when I was in the service we had technical manuals in 3 ring binders that got routine updates. When a change was made, you removed and replaced the changed pages only. Perhaps something like that with a print on demand rulebook?
I think there will definitely be a consolidation in the gaming industry. It’ll be interesting to see how companies like Warlord react. They’ve bought up a lot of ranges that went defunct but even they’ve spun off some of their properties like Gates, Cruel Seas, Test of Honor, just to name a few.
Thank you @blipvertus – can’t even begin to tell you how much that means to me. No Friday eve or Sunday will ever be the same!
I recall studying commercial art decades ago, just before digital art hit its strides and when erasers where were still frowned apon for being time consuming. I wonder how many digital artists out there today are lamenting while they watch thier skills become redundant and thier trade sail away. . . Oh well tough tits as they say. Though it sounds harsh, it’s is still in part jest,though simply the way if things. Something I learned not only by listening to Warzan but also in recent discusions with a game designer friend of mine who has also been putting AI art to great use…
And Though I have no great fear for the future of gaming generaly its true we may see those not flexible enough culled from the crowd though I’m not entirely sure its a bad thing, unless its something I like.
I wonder if some leaner times wont bring us back to focusing on the gameplay. Minis are great, but for such a long time, for me, they wern’t the focus. Not untill I had the money to spend. Before that it was always about theater of mind or a great board game mechanic. Now I have a printer and can trawl market places for whatever I like but I feel the market is saturated and I’m just filling a void till the next traditional scultp arrives in the post to go to the front of the painting queue
PS sorry to see Space Balls go. May she go onward to awsome adventure.
Ah thank you! 🙂 New adventure pending, and am gutted to be leaving. You will all be missed!
Unfortunately for me, next year I need/want to try and buy a house so my hobby budget is inevitably going to plummet. However given how much I have spent in the past, I am well past SABLE (Stash Acquired Beyond Life Expectancy) and so it’s probably not such a bad thing. I can focus now on painting what I have, playing some games and only buying the odd miniature here and there to plug the occasional gap in an army. That actually suits me fine.
And if I desperately want new miniatures, I do have a 3D printer as well and a heft supply of cyberpunk miniatures in STL from from Unit-9 (which is cool, because they’re about to release a game too!)
So I can see my hobby budget decreasing quite significantly to cover only hobby supplies like brushes and paints
Super sad to see Free go. She was a great addition to the crew and will be missed. Good luck with everything!
Thanks @defectivedice – sad to be leaving myself. Will miss you all and the crew, and will make sure to check back in with my dark and whimsical projects hehe!
Just a thought on the cost of this hobby vs other hobbies. It is as expensive as you want it to be. You could buy a set of golf clubs and play golf for ten years, or you could buy a new set of clubs ever year and say your hobby is expensive. The same holds for miniatures and gaming. If you want to play multiple armies for multiple systems then sure, it’s going to be a big lay out. But if you are content to build a force over time, and enjoy building, painting and learning to use those models, then month to month it doesn’t really need to cost a lot.
Sorry to hear Free is leaving, you will be missed. As for the costs issues as an “old git” who has seen a number of “crisis” and “recessions” over the years, starting with the “oil crisis” in the early 70’s (anyone else remember the petrol rationing coupons they issued but didn’t use?) I think there will be a contraction of the smaller suppliers. But as a mainly “historical” gamer this is happening already in a way as a number of figure manufacturers have retired and their figures either going to other firms or worse still disappearing all together, with the bigger firms “weathering” the storm.
But on the positive side I think people forget we have seen similar before. Just had a natter to one of my mates who was mentioning in the eighties when his mortgage interest was at 15%, and in the early 90’s when negative equity hit the housing market. The cynic in me is that today everything seems to be a “crisis” or a “catastrophe” with the rolling 24/7 news ?.
Still catching up on my OTT viewing from the holiday season. ChopSlap, trademarking that!