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This topic contains 34 replies, has 10 voices, and was last updated by  piers 4 months ago.

Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 35 total)
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  • #1405756

    wesadie1969
    Participant
    2344xp

    Is there a definitive ruleset for 15mm ACW gaming?

    #1405757

    torros
    Participant
    12908xp

    Not really. There are loads. Do you want each unit to represent  regiment or a brigade

    #1405762

    ozzie
    Participant
    154xp

    I use ‘Fire and Fury’ there are both brigade and regimental versions. They’ve been around for a few years. ACW themed but I have seen house rules for Franco Prussia war and Crimea.

    #1405770

    wesadie1969
    Participant
    2344xp

    Thinking regiment.

    Love the period but have no clue where to start in terms of good rule sets.

    #1405803

    phaidknott
    Participant
    3003xp

    Johnny Reb by GDW (you’ll have to find a set second hand however), however there’s a “split” in the playerbase between 2nd and 3rd edition (I’m one of the diehards that stuck with 2nd). It’s an older set of rules (so expect tables and charts), but it used an innovative order system using chits that are placed face down (so you don’t know what you opponent has ordered until they are revealed). It stops the usual brinksmanship and adds a layer of chaos into the game.

    The later edition (and Fire and Fury) share a common basing (so you can switch between both sets of rules for playing either Regt level or Brigade). But just like Napolenonics, Ancients, (or just about any historical) period there’s a gazillion set of rules out there and everyone is playing each one. The best way (if you have a group or club) is find out what the others are playing (rather than striking out on your own).

    But you probably need to decide if you want a detailed set of rules or a more quickplay set for a start…..

    #1405804

    phaidknott
    Participant
    3003xp

    Oh and scale of miniatures (planning on 25mm or smaller scale), along with the size of your table will also dictate which set of rules you’ll be using. I’ve built my armies in 10mm and play on a usual 6X4 table (although it’s rare we use the full table, leaves room for pens paper and cups of coffee 😀 ).

    #1405919

    wesadie1969
    Participant
    2344xp

    Cheers all, plenty for me to get my teeth stuck into.

    #1406019

    oriskany
    Participant
    36093xp

    Late to the question, but yes, I recommend Johnny Reb as well, especially if you can get the GDW reprint (I think it was first rolled out by a smaller company before that??)  Man, pretty much anything published by GDW was pretty damned good, even their simpler games later in the 80s like the original Team Yankee and the rest of the First Battle series.

    #1406090

    chaingun
    Participant
    1924xp

    I think it all depends on the complexity a game your are looking for. I’ve played over the years Johnny Reb 2 and fire and fury both brigade and regimental. More recently I’ve started to use black powder with the glory hallelujah supplement.

    I would say that Johnny reb in today’s terms is quite a clunky a game system,  it does give a good feel for the period.

    The latest edition of fire and fury regimental and brigade are very good and also give good period flavours.

    Black powder is a simple system that needs a little input at the start to make sure you put the period flavours into the game, but the mechanics are simple.

    My large ACW gaming I use an old computer program Rebel Yell (sadly not in production) as this gives me the right weapons, damage etc that is scaled in my opinion correctly. There are other good sets on the market namely carnage and glory, which also do a similar thing.

    #1406092

    torros
    Participant
    12908xp

    i would agree with what’s been said so far. Too fat Lardies also do a set

     

    From memory the charge sequence in Johnny Reb was awful and I didn’t like the need for bases with differing numbers of figures on them. Fire and Fury would be my favourite

    I also had Rebel Yell. Seems s long time ago now

    • This reply was modified 4 months ago by  torros.
    #1406097

    madasaskaven
    Participant
    2159xp

    I’ve got a copy of, over Malvern hill by stand to games.  Just one D10 each needed and plays great.  Lots of feel of the period and can be played in 15 or 28 mm

    #1406099

    phaidknott
    Participant
    3003xp

    Well Johnny Reb 1st Edition had some pretty complicated artillery rules, the 2nd Edition did away with those (and hit the perfect spot for me, BTW the blue box GDW version is the 2nd Edition). The 3rd Edition went to 4 stands per Regt/Brigade (the previous editions had 5 stands) and was similar to Fire and Fury basing (but a lot of us wasn’t going to redo all our armies, so that’s why we stuck to 2nd Edition).

    The Charge sequence is a bit daunting at the start, but after a couple of games it becomes second nature. It is the way it is to allow the order chit system to work. For example…..

    Three of the many order chits are “First Fire”, “Hold” and “Charge”, and when units get close together (in Musket range) you end up with a “Rock, Paper, Scissors” situation.

    If you think the enemy will charge, then you want to use the “Hold” action (this allows you to deliver a point blank volley just before contact is made. this will either cause the enemy to falter before getting into melee or cause enough casualties that they are in a disadvantage in melee).

    If the think the enemy expects you to charge and will use the “Hold” order chit, then you want to use the “First Fire” order (this allows you to fire first, then the enemy fires after WITH the casualties you caused taken into effect).

    If you think the enemy is going to use a “First Fire” order chit, then you want to charge (this means the enemy will fire at you BEFORE you move causing a lot less casualties meaning your charge is more likely to be successful).

    Of course a lot of this “mind games” is all about how well you know your opponent, and they knowing you (you might make an order different from what you would normally do to put them off your game), and it works best in a regular gaming group rather than tournys (where it’s almost “random” in what chit is going to go down other than things like terrain (like being behind a stone wall, that would cause you to almost always use the “First Fire” or “Hold” chit if within Musket range) taken in effect when choosing the order chit.

    Like “all” order rulesets, I suppose you could call it clunky (as it uses things like tables, and requires players to do some mental arithmetic. But it’s a break from the norm these days to go back to the older mechanics (rather than using novel Dice or Cards to resolve the games mechanics). But I’d say it hands down gives the best recreation of the battles of the ACW, BUT I would say given the scale of the game it’s better for smaller scales (15mm or below) rather than 28mm (where you’d probably do better with a set of Black Powder.

    Don’t the Perry twins offer a free set of rules via their website (anyone played them to give an insight)?

    BTW Oriskany, been trying to get a copy of “To the Sound of the Guns” scenario book that was released with the GDW box at the same time for YEARS now. Alas the copies only usually come up on Ebay in the US (and many private sellers don’t want the bother of shipping things internationally), so if you DO see any copies about……….

    🙂

     

     

    • This reply was modified 4 months ago by  phaidknott.
    • This reply was modified 4 months ago by  phaidknott.
    #1406111

    oriskany
    Participant
    36093xp

    Interesting comments from many people.  😀

    Johnny Reb is “clunky by today’s standards.”  Well, it’s been a while since I played Johnny Reb (honestly I don’t remember what edition it was), but generally speaking I feel too many of today’s standards are frankly way too slick, too simple, too catered to short attention spans.

    I’ll  have to check out Rebel Yell.

    Black Powder – in the past I have not been a fan.  Way too simple, too fast.  Bereft of detail.  Can’t seem to make up its mind on scale.  28mm figures  with 10-40 figures in an army but no real ruling on how many men that’s supposed to be, clearly a command-tactical game where a figure represents more than one man but still with the True LOS rules for terrain?  How can that be when you’re figures / units are not to scale with the terrain?

    That said, clearly I was looking at some kind of introductory rules set.  I see YouTube video with a 178-page book  that’s DEFINITELY not the one I was looking at before.  They still have that damned “pivot” movement option in it.  God **** it all to hell, I wish games would stop doing that.  Have these people ever DONE close order drill in the military?  Much less in combat?

    Johnny Reb basing limitations: Honestly I can’t speak to this.  I played 15 years ago with someone else’s army, I can’t remember off the top of my head whether there were four or five figures on the base.

    Which brings up a question – how does Johnny Reb handle the wildly different sizes to the regiments and brigades, especially between the Union and CSA?  Confederate units would usually be reinforced with replacements between battles, so they had a smaller number of “units” with more or less a steady manpower level (at least until later in the war).  Union regiments would be used and used until they were finally disbanded (or enlistment papers ran out), and then replaced with new units.

    So you’d have Confederate regiments that were supposed to have 1000 men but usually had say 600-800 (usual battlefield rate) – but Union regiments could be as small as 200 after a couple battles.  Of course, such disparities were then carried up through brigade and division and corps.  Gettysburg is a common example: three Confederate corps faced off against seven Union corps and the disparity on the field was only 75,000-90,000 or so (I don’t count Union units that arrived too late on July 3 to take meaningful part in the battle).

    Just saying, this force level in a “regimental” game is a factor, I honestly don’t remember how Johnny Reb handles it.

    #1406115

    torros
    Participant
    12908xp

    @phaidknott In regards to sound of the guns I’ll ask about if your interested. A lot of us had Johnny Reb 2nd edition and someone might be wiling  to let it go

    #1406116

    torros
    Participant
    12908xp

    Volley and Bayonet is a nice set as well and just about covers ACW. I think there was an ACW version of General de Brigade done as well

    I do find Black powder a bit bland

     

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