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This topic contains 15 replies, has 6 voices, and was last updated by  wedgie2007 1 week, 3 days ago.

Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 16 total)
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  • #1346196

    wedgie2007
    Participant
    68xp

    Hi all,

    I am wanting to build the US and German forces to fight mainly early D-Day through to the battle of the bulge. I normally am a Napoleonic wargamer but since I was a small child I have had a passion for all things WW2 and I have finally collected a few boxes from Warlord Games from their Bold Action range. These are the items I have purchased so far.
    US Forces
    US Airborne Platoon (Able)
    US Airborne Platoon (Bravo)
    US Airborne Platoon (Charlie)
    M3A1 Half-Track
    M3A1 Half-Track
    M3A1 Half-Track
    US Airborne Jeep (1944-45)
    US Airborne Jeep (1944-45)
    US Airborne Hand Carts
    US Airborne Hand Carts
    US Airborne Hand Carts
    US Airborne – 75mm Howitzer & Crew
    US Airborne – 75mm Howitzer & Crew
    US Airborne – 75mm Howitzer & Crew
    US Airbourne 57mm Anti-Tank Team
    US Airbourne 57mm Anti-Tank Team
    US Airborne HQ
    US Airborne – Bazooka & 60mm light mortar team
    US Airborne – Bazooka & 60mm light mortar team
    US Infantry Platoon (Alpha)
    US Infantry Platoon (Bravo)
    US Infantry Platoon (Charlie)
    US Infantry Platoon (Delta)
    US Infantry Platoon (Echo)
    US Infantry Platoon (Foxtrot)
    US Army – Battalion Command Set
    Jeep with 50cal Machine Gun
    Jeep with 50cal Machine Gun
    Jeep with 30cal Machine Gun
    US Tank Platoon
    M24 Chaffee Tank
    M24 Chaffee Tank
    M24 Chaffee Tank
    M18 Hellcat Platoon
    German forces
    Late War Panzergrenadiers
    Late War Panzergrenadiers
    German Grenadier Platoon 1
    German Grenadier Platoon 2
    German Grenadier Platoon 3
    German Grenadier Platoon 4
    German Grenadier Platoon 5
    Oak Leaf Spring Camo Waffen-SS Platoon 1
    SD.KFZ 251/10 (PAK 36) Half-Track
    German Army – Kubelwagen
    German Army – Heer 75mm LEiG 18 Artillery
    German Heer 105mm Gun & Crew
    German Heer 105mm Gun & Crew
    German Army – High Command
    German Army – Heer Forward Observation Team (FOO)
    German Heer 75mm Pak 40 AT Gun (Winter)
    German Heer 75mm Pak 40 AT Gun (Winter)
    German Heer 81mm Medium Mortar
    German Heer 81mm Medium Mortar
    Hanomags
    Hanomags
    Hanomags
    Hanomags
    Hanomags
    Hanomags
    German Army – Waffen-SS Sniper, Flamethrower and Panzerschreck Teams
    Waffen-SS Forward Observer Team
    Waffen-SS HQ
    Blitzkrieg German Panzer Crew
    Panzer IV
    Panzer IV
    Panzer III
    Panzer III
    Stug III
    Stug III
    Jagdpanzer 38(t) Hetzer
    Panther Ausf. A
    Panther Ausf. A
    Panther Ausf. A

    Aircraft
    Allied Air Power
    Typhoon
    Spitfire Mk.Vb
    Spitfire Mk.Vb
    US Thunderbolt
    P-51 Mustang
    Nazi Air Power
    Messerschmitt Bf 109
    Messerschmitt Bf 109
    JU87B-1
    JU87B-2
    JU87B-2

    I have no idea what I am doing when it comes to putting my forces together, I was hoping to build these units “easy” Company 101st US Airborne, 2nd Armoured Division with 4th Division attached and 12th SS Panzer Division, it is very difficult to build these units according to their historical order of battles with the rules as all games are by a point system.
    Any help creating these units within the confines of the Bolt action rules would be greatly appreciated.

    P.S Those purchased items are what I have now I am expecting another 25+ boxes of Infantry, Tanks and Vehicles in the next 6 weeks from Warlord Games.

    My Bolt Action Collection

    #1346292

    olliep
    Participant
    2520xp

    Err….. Wow…. that’s more than “a few boxes”!
    Apologies in advance if the below sound a bit harsh…
    Where to begin…. honestly, stop buying boxes!
    I would strongly suggest buying and reading the core rulebook, the Armies of Germany and Armies of the US, and the related Campaign books if you haven’t done so already, before you do anything else, as you’ve gone overboard somewhat! 🙂
    Bolt Action is played at platoon level, so your army is going to consist of a couple of HQ units, a few squads (with transports if points allow), a few support units and up to a single tank – there are restrictions on what you can add in terms of support/armour in a standard platoon chart, plus further allowances/restrictions if you’re using a theatre specific one. Tanks are scary things in Bolt Action as in reality, not much can hurt them
    There is also the Tank War expansion for playing big tank battles as well, which is where your tank platoon boxes will come into play, but for a standard game these won’t get used normally.

    To give you an idea, this is one of my 1000pt German lists:
    2nd Lt & Assistant
    Forward Air Observer & Assistant
    Heer Grenadier Squad 1 (10 man)
    Heer Grenadier Squad 2 (10 man)
    Heer Grenadier Squad 3 (10 man)
    Sniper team
    Heavy Mortar Team
    MMG Team
    Pz IV ausf H

    That list will give me an evenings worth of gaming entertainment.
    Whilst you can build your historically accurate lists, I honestly don’t see you using half of the kits you’ve bought already
    Sorry if that sounds like I’m killing your ideas (I build crazy-sized armies as well for other games systems so I can understand where you’re coming from), but at 28mm using Bolt Action rules as they are,  you’re really not going to be playing the size of  games that use all this regularly enough to justify the expense from my perspective.

    #1346294

    limburger
    Participant
    5381xp

    @wedgie2007

    That’s probably enough plastic to build a 1:1 scale version of both armies 😉

    You’re probably going to need the theatre and army specific books (if you don’t have them already).
    With D-day as your focus those would be :

    – Armies of Germany (2nd edition) : generic lists covering the entire war

    – Armies of America : ditto for the USA

    – Battleground Europe – D-day to Berlin (D-day themed in more detail)

    – (optional)  Campaign : Battle of the Bulge

    – (optional) Campaign : Operation Market Garden

    – (optional) Campaign : Road to Berlin

    (source : https://store.warlordgames.com/collections/rules-books/bolt-action )

    Warlord also sell the Osprey series of historical books if you want a bit more detail. I got a few of their DAK themed books which cover the basics from uniform to actual formations.
    I’m sure the more dedicated historical gamers on this forum can give you a list of interesting books.

    #1346327

    innes
    Participant
    1803xp

    Looks like you’ve got enough for your first 20 bolt action armies there.

    As olliep said, Bolt Action is a platoon level game.

    Most infantry lists have compulsory : HQ team, 2 squads

    You can then add : more squads, specialists weapon teams, 1 artillery, 1 armoured car, 1 tank.

    Mostly though, you will only have the points to field one under strength platoon with some support units.

    You might want a different ruleset if you want to field bigger armies. Something that caters for company level engagements rather than platoon level.

    • This reply was modified 1 week, 4 days ago by  innes.
    #1346551

    wedgie2007
    Participant
    68xp

    Thanks, guys for all your replies I appreciate all that you have said, I am coming from Napoleonic wargaming where I have 5000+ figures for French and British. I came to this game with the wrong mindset thinking that I can create huge battles using the Bolt Action Rules like I can with my Napoleonic.

    Maybe its time to create my own house rules so I can have my own large engagements on my 6ftx4ft table.
    I’ll have to reorganize my collection as I still have these boxes of stuff coming this week and in the next few weeks stuff from warlord games should be arriving:

    6xRubicon 1/56 US 2½ ton 6×6 Truck CCKW-353
    1x Bolt Action: Panzer 38(t) Zug
    1xUS Army Jeep with 50 Cal MMG
    1xUS Army Jeep with 30 Cal MMG
    1xVolksgrenadiers Squad
    1xGerman Luftwaffe Field Division Squad
    1xGerman Army – Tiger Zug
    1xKing Tiger Platoon
    3xGerman SD.Kfz 251/2 Ausf D (8cm Granatwerfer) Half Track
    1xBolt Action: Marder Zug
    1x Blitzkrieg Panzergrenadiers (30+3 Hanomags)
    2xItaleri 1:56 M3 Stuart Model Kit
    1xAcademy Messerschmitt BF109G-6 1/72 Model Kit
    1xAirfix 1:72 Supermarine Spitfire Mk.VA – Model Kit
    1xAcademy Typhoon MK.IB 1/72 Model Kit
    1xItaleri Ju-87 B2/R2 Stuka 1:72 Model Kit
    1xRubicon 1/56 Micheal Wittmann & Balthasar ” Bobby” Woll
    3xUS Army – Forward Observer Officers (FOO)
    1xUS Airborne Boxed Set
    2xUS Army – Battalion Command Set
    1xUS Army – Marine Corps HQ Set
    2xM3 Stuart
    1xBolt Action: US Armoured Car Squadron
    1xBolt Action: Sherman Crocodile Flamethrower Tank
    1xGerman Fallschirmjager Boxed Set
    1xGerman Army – High Command
    2xBlitzkreig – German HQ (1939-42)
    1xUS Airborne HQ
    1xUS Army – Battalion Command Set
    3xUS Army – 3” Anti-Tank Gun
    1xBolt Action: US M10 Tank Destroyer Platoon
    1xM21 mortar carrier half-track
    3xSd.Kfz 251/1 Ausf C Hanomag (German Halftrack)
    1xSd.Kfz 251/7C Pionierwagen with panzerbuchse 41
    1xGerman Pioneers
    3xGerman Army – Heer/Waffen-SS Kettenkrad
    2xGerman Schwimmwagen with stowage
    1xFlakpanzer IV Wirbelwind
    1xBolt Action: US Army Characters (Winter)

    I guess i went a little overboard with my collecting, i didn’t want to miss out on anything. its most annoying to have a game or build an army only to find that you have a unit missing and need to wait weeks or months for it to arrive.

    I will just have to play small games of Bolt action with rolling reinforcements coming onto the table at certain points of the main battle so the units can all get a chance to shoot at each other…lol

    #1346603

    olliep
    Participant
    2520xp

    If you’re looking for larger scale battles, then maybe look at Flames of War? 15mm will allow you much larger forces on a 6×4 🙂

    #1346607

    limburger
    Participant
    5381xp

    Larger scale WW2 games tend to be at 15mm or 20 mm instead of 28mm.

    Might I suggest looking at Battlegroup:Overlord instead of Bolt-action ?
    It does allow for bigger games although you still need one heck of a table to field your entire collection.

    The plastic infantry kits in the Afrika Korps and 8th army sets have so many options that you don’t need the HQ variants of their faction. I suspect the same is true for the American and generic German army sets as well.

    However I do know the feeling of not having a ‘complete’ army when buying into a system. Especially if there are no local retailers.
    Warlord do have more than a few 1000 point army lists that are as close to perfect for when you want a new army that is playable without having to worry about missing out on ‘vital’ parts. In fact with their D-Day starter set you would have had the basics of both an American and German army.

    #1346620

    piers
    Participant
    6637xp

    I think someone just likes buying figures.

     

    On a 6 x 4 in 28mm that amount will have to be ranked up like Napoleonics…

    I wouldn’t say Battlegroup is of much use either, on a 6 x 4 in 28mm you’d only be fielding a platoon or so. Perfect if you want to play that level, but from use of models, no real increase over BA except maybe an extra tank or two.

    I’d concentrate on making usable forces for one of the systems and play a game that suits your gaming space rather than cramming as much on as possible, as WW2 wasn’t a war that was notable for its shoulder to shoulder formations…

    #1346693

    wedgie2007
    Participant
    68xp

    I was wrong my table is not 6ftx4ft its 12ftx8ft (don’t know how I got it wrong, I’ve only had it for a week and not used it…lol)

    My perfect game is not to place all the forces on the table at the start but to have the other units roll on as reinforcements etc, Just like in the band of brothers when the 2nd armored came and gave them support when pinned in the hedgerows by the Germans.

    There certainly is a course for an argument that I might be a figures “buyer” but if I wasn’t then I wouldn’t be a true wargamer now, would I?

    #1346710

    olliep
    Participant
    2520xp

    There are already rules for reinforcements coming in later in the game in Bolt Action, but again that’s still within the confines of the points in the game. One of the key mechanics of Bolt Action is pinning, where a unit takes hits and becomes less effective rather than just killing them – They don’t get wiped out and leave the table as such just hunker down under fire. If you’re planning on massed reinforcements you’re just going to have a traffic jam of units on the table edge. I don’t think the 28mm scale and mechanics will really suit what you’re looking for in terms of sizes of engagements
    As @piers says above, find a system that suits your space rather than trying to force everything in, but for me I’d be looking more at Flames of War with 15mm as opposed to 28mm.

    #1346711

    wedgie2007
    Participant
    68xp

    @olliep

    I appreciate what you guys are saying about the 15mm and flames of war. I am not a young man nor do I have young eyes especially after painting all those 18mm Napoleonic. I chose bolt action figures(28mm) because they are a lot easier to paint and they look really nice, I do appreciate that the Bolt action rules might not support my idea of a WW2 wargaming battle but it came in the Band of Brothers starter army and I thought I might use it.

    There are many people, including clubs, that do not follow the point system and still use the Bolt Action rules, there are players that have 4000pt armies also that play large scale club battles, as I said previously I can make my own house rules that support large scale 28mm engagements on a 12ftx8ft table, without the need to have them to be shoulder to shoulder like Napoleonic infantry.

    #1346724

    torros
    Participant
    9760xp

    For what it’s worth my suggestion would to find an engagement or scenario that you like the look of and paint up both sides for that . Dont  worry about  how many points you have, maybe this way would  give you something to aim at completion wise

    #1346731

    olliep
    Participant
    2520xp

    And that’s perfectly fine, if you can find players who want to take on the challenge then go for it, I just didn’t want to see you put all the time, effort and more importantly cash into building all this and end up disappointed 🙂
    My germans total 3600pts, but I never use all of them (in fact I don’t think my Tiger/ Tiger II have ever been put on the table!)

    #1346735

    wedgie2007
    Participant
    68xp

    This is my kind of late war idea (taken from the warlords Waffen-SS Platoon Pack)
    Command Squad:
    1x Officer, 1x NCO with MP40 SMG, 1x 2-man radio team with rifles, 1x Medic, 1x rifleman
    Squad/Section:
    2×9-man squad: 2x NCOs with MP40 SMGs, 1x 2-man MG42 LMG team, 5x riflemen
    Mortar Squad:
    1x 81mm mortar with 3 crew
    2x men with StG44 assault rifles
    x9 of these platoons for a company with a company command base, I would also add other support units like Artillery and antitank just haven’t worked that part out yet.

    For my US Airborne
    Platoon Command: 1x Officer with Carbine 1x Assault Platoon commander with carbine 1x platoon sergeant with SMG 2x radio with rifle 2x Runners
    2xSection:
    1x sergeant with rifle 1x corporal with SMG 1x LMG 1x Assistant LMG 1x Ammo Bearer with rifle 7x men with rifles.
    Mortar Squad:
    1x sergeant with SMG 1x mortar gunner with rifle 1x assistant mortar gunner with pistol 3x men with rifles.
    x3 of these platoons for a company with a company command base, I would also add other support units like Artillery and antitank just haven’t worked that part out yet either.

    I have not worked out what structure I am going to do for the platoons from the 4th division and the 25th SS division or the armor brigades for the 2nd US Armor and the 12th SS Panzer, that is my basic plan until I can lay everything out and great a proper battle order for all.

    #1346852

    piers
    Participant
    6637xp

    Now a 12 x 8…

     

    Yep… you will play 28mm using Battlegroup on that!

     

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