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I request the wisdom of the Tankers here!

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This topic contains 8 replies, has 6 voices, and was last updated by  roboute73 1 month ago.

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  • #1404903

    crazyredcoat
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    1518xp

    So, my brother and I are thinking about Flames of War 4th for Late War, and I am wanting to do 1st Polish Armoured and he is thinking Americans or Soviets, but here comes the question. Shermans. Which of the buggers got which sodding tank? ūüėõ I know that the Brits typically had Sherman V’s in the later stages of the war, but also had some of the other versions in the Desert like the Sherman III. I know the Russians were sent Shermans, but which version? And were they cast hulls? Can you really use the cast hull Shermans from the Hit the Beach box as anything other than Americans? Even then, did they have many of them? The Shermans they gave to the French were welded, almost all images of Russian service tanks look welded, even most of the pictures I find of the American ones in France seem to be welded. Help?

    #1404904

    torros
    Participant
    11453xp

    Usual warning about Wikipedia but this has quite a bit of info

     

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lend-Lease_Sherman_tanks

    #1404908

    avernos
    Participant
    12961xp

    there’s decent info in that wiki article, the short answer is it’s practically impossible to tell who had what and in what numbers.

    Slightly longer answer is the Cast hulls were harder to manufacture in large amounts which is why they switched to welded hulls. However cast were certainly sent out as part of the lend lease programme¬† and Britain received almost as many M4’s as the US forces and among them were definitely some cast hulls.

    I know the Polish were initially equipped with welded, but not sure if they had any replacements, there is no reason to suspect they didn’t and as such the hit the beach M4’s could easily be used in any of the lend lease nations without any problem

    #1404909

    avernos
    Participant
    12961xp

    found reference that the Polish armoured division was issued with cast hull M4A1 (76mm) so you have 3 of those in the box, so yeah go nuts ūüėÄ

    #1404910

    crazyredcoat
    Participant
    1518xp

    Thanks, folks! Very helpful. That also opens up my other thought of doing Free French forces, too, though I think the Paras uniforms would be wrong there, but nothing is perfect. Much appreciated!

    #1404911

    oriskany
    Participant
    33512xp

    @crazyredcoat – the one confirmed Polish Sherman I saw with my own eyes (Argentan Museum, Battle of Falaise Gap, where the Normandy Campaign is considered to have ended) seems to have a cast hull – with the 76mm M1A1 “Easy Eight” gun that Gerry mentions.

    But honestly, Lend Lease units like Polish, Free French, or even Soviet units (5th Guards Tank Corps – just one example) really got a mishmash.¬† So I’d agree with @avernos and @torros – just do what you want.¬† American and even British Sherman units were usually a little more standardized, but other “clients” often got a potluck of leftovers.

    Polish Sherman 01Polish Sherman 02

    If your friend decides to go Soviet Shermans, one thing to think about is POSSIBLY mounting the 85mm gun put in the T-34/85.  Not sure how widespread or successful the idea was, but the Soviets did try it out.

    My Soviet Shermans:

    Soviet Shermans 01

    #1404912

    crazyredcoat
    Participant
    1518xp

    Thanks @oriskany ,that’s actually rather interesting about the Poles. I assumed they were equipped from British stores, and so would have the V’s. Definitely all very handy information, and some fantastic pictures, too!

    #1405051

    a27cromwell
    Participant
    2251xp

    The Russians only got the M4A2 diesel engine Sherman¬† , about 2000 with the 75mm and 2100 with the 76mm gun . Rule of thumb ( post D Day ) was most units¬† got Shermans with the same engine type for ease of supply of parts and fuel¬† ( ammo wasn’t a problem it seemed¬† ). So you would see units with both M4 & M4A1 ( both with the radial engine ) , or the twin¬† diesel M4A2¬† , ¬† the M4A3 ( V8 gas ) , favored by the Yanks¬† , and the Commonwealth got the M4A4¬† five engine multi bank . And while the Yanks thought it was a mechanical nightmare¬† to repair , the Brits loved it .

    #1405059

    roboute73
    Participant
    287xp

    The Poles in Normandy had M4A4 (Sherman V’s) and Firefly’s. They also had one unit of Cromwell’s. I’m almost 100% positive you wouldn’t find any Polish 76mm M4A1’s in Normandy, althought they did use them later in the campaign – as did some of the Canadian units that transferred from Italy (5th Canadian Armoured Division).

    Mainly because the 76mm tanks were rushed into service by the US forces who had believed they would not be needed. When they realised they were, they couldn’t get enough of them for themselves.

    I did a post on using the new starter set M4A1″s as Brits:¬†https://themadtinhatter.blogspot.com/2019/06/lend-lease-using-hit-beach-shermans-as.html?m=1

    I believe the main Sherman sent to the Russians were M4A2’s, which had diesel engines and welded hulls. Also used by the Brits, Canadians (as Sherman III’s) and US Marines. PSC sell these as plastic kits.

    M4A3’s were kept by the US for themselves. M4A4’s (Sherman V’s) went largely to the Brits, who used them mainly in Armoured Divisions. The Independent Armoured Brigades tended to use M4’s (Sherman I’s), M4A1’s (see my blog post – Sherman II’s) or M4A2’s¬† (Sherman III’s)

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