Where to begin?

[royalpain621Participant 3503xp 2]

I have an idea that I really wish to see developed but I lack basically everything to get it even started. I have no sculpting skills, no 3d CAD skills besides the basics and zero finances to spare for concept work and to have the sole concept that I have be made into a 3d model where it can be prototyped.

Hiring an artist to make the 3d concept ranges from $80 to $250 as I found out and taking that to the next step is around another $200 – $350. So just to make a sole figure; it is gonna be anywhere from $280-$600! Ahh! The sole artist I did manage to help create the first concept art for my project costed me $130.

I guess I could create a Patreon and build up a community to talk bout the project and get funds in to develop it more but is that the correct way or am I dreaming and abandon the project?

Please take note that I have been somewhat secretive as I do not just yet want to reveal what it is that I am after although I so want to show you all what I am after.

[limburger 21714xp 0]

Does it have to be 3d?

Why not use 2d standees or basic meeples?

Hero forge could be an option if you can find something that fits your ideas.

Good artists are expensive for a reason. These people don’t work for exposure and the demand is high

[royalpain621Participant 3503xp 0]

I… am aiming to create a game that is based off of my writings of a fantasy/ near sci-fi mix that utilizes platoon plus game scale at 28mm. Plus the main unique soldiers I cannot create on hero forge. They are that unique.

I respect artists and understand that they have lives too but knowing who to turn too is also part of the problem. The artist I previously commissioned I felt was fair and he did a good job but I felt his work was for lack of a more proper term; slightly unusable to convert to a mini. It felt way too detailed. Perhaps I am wrong in my thinking.

[limburger 21714xp 0]

I’d say work out the rules and mechanics first.
People are more likely to buy into a new set of rules if they don’t have to buy (and assemble and paint) yet another set of miniatures.

Also keep in mind that artists tend to specialize in specific areas. Illustrations and concept art are a completely different beast compared to 3D sculpting. Maybe getting an illustrator to help you nail down your design makes it easier to find someone to do the 3D sculpts ?

One option worth exploring might be a website like Fiverr :
https://www.fiverr.com/

I don’t know if you can find anyone that can deliver, but it might be worth a peek.

DeviantArt might be worth exploring if you need to find examples to help explain your concepts to an artist :

https://www.deviantart.com/

And as with anything : you get what you pay for …
There’s a reason why kickstarters for projects tend to have spent thousands of dollars just to get to the prototype stage.

and of course … the market for 28mm wargames is very crowded, so be realistic when setting your goal.

[royalpain621Participant 3503xp 0]

That’s no lie. I have been toying the idea of 20mm or even 15mm but for the unit customization that I hope I can strive for will have to put this at either 28mm.

As for where I can discuss game mechanics, what would you suggest?

[sundancer 42985xp 0]

I agree with @limburger Get the rules ready first. Maybe keep it miniature agnostic and let people use the minis they already own. That way your costs of development stay low and you could get away with a first release on drivethrouRPG to see if the rules work and are liked.

[limburger 21714xp 0]

@royalpain621 changing scale just to be unique is bad design.
I’d recommend focussing on the mechanics and style of game you want and worry about how it looks afterwards.

Do you want it to be WYSIWYG (what you see is what you get) or are you willing to make it more abstract ?
The former looks cool, but the latter is easier (less minis to develop) when you get to the prototype stage.
There is something to be said for keeping things a bit more abstract.

oh … and you’re in the ‘game developers’ section of this forum, so I think this is the place to discuss this sort of thing.

Alternatively you can start a project on this site and use that to manage your thoughts and react to comments.
You can set the project to ‘private’ or ‘friends only’ until you’re ready to share with a wider audience.

Any help this community can give will depend on how much you can share with us.
There are no stupid questions.

[yoshiParticipant 3197xp 0]

I´d shift the focus from toying around on a single mini to a more macro perspective. Start with the rules and background development. It wont cost anything and if the project doesnt move forward at all you didnt waste more money.

And share your ideas. Maybe you wont have to give away crucial concepts but you would recieve a lot more input if you gave people somehing to work with.

[royalpain621Participant 3503xp 0]

I like the idea of starting a project blog dedicated to the development of this game as I was also told on warner 2 years ago; to start off with the mechanics and work from there.

Definitely a good advantage of the project blog is to get a better feel of what people want. Another card based war-game where stats and special rules are on cards or an army list set up? I can also get a better feel of what scale people who may want to play this will feel is best as are the potential mini ideas that I have in mind.

As of now, it will be WYSIWYG but that is for when the minis get developed. I can be happy with abstract for the purpose of testing. I have already set up base size markers just for this purpose. I will start a blog this weekend’ giving me time to get ideas down and to test the waters and such. If I get more people than I hoped interested, would it be recommended that I can start either a gofundme or a Patreon to help expand the idea to where I want it to go or would that be poor taste?

[sundancer 42985xp 0]

As long as it’s a small time investment I wouldn’t start charging money… if your game has “more meat to the bone” and is something more representing a MVP (minimal viable product) then you can start creating testing groups and focus on other peoples ideas and input

[phaidknott 7023xp 1]

I think these days probable backers look to a KickStarter with a lot more of a critical eye then they did a couple of years ago. We’ve had many, many KS with beautiful miniatures, yet a game/ruleset that been barely fit for purpose. A bucketful of PVC mini’s just doesn’t sell like it used to.

Rules however form the “backbone” of any game system (along with the background/fluff), and a warning sign is usually seeing renders of miniatures but the rules are still in “alpha” and/or there’s no playthrough of the rules on the campaign page.

I think you’d probably be more likely to be able to sell a set of rules via kickstarter (look at the recent Clash of Spears KS) using already available miniatures these days (as the buy in is a lot less for backers, and they are more likely to “risk” a pledge than spending hundreds of dollars/pounds UNLESS you are one of the big players in the KS market (like CMON for example), or have a recognisable IP from books/films etc.

Perhaps once you have a product you could take to KickStarter in a set of rules etc, then you might look at releasing a set of miniatures to go with it. But these days (thanks to companies like CMON) backers expect a LOT of unique sculpts, almost the entire possible catalogue right from the start. And they want to see PRODUCTION minis during the campaign before splurging out (we truly have been spoiled over the years). For the majority of backers they tend to treat the KickStarter as a discount/pre-order store rather than a project to get something off the ground.

It’s a bit of a nightmare these days as people tend to feel they have to do a kickstarter and be massively successful or it’s nothing. There’s a lot to be said for self publishing via sites like DrivethroughRPG Now (look at Joseph A. McCullough’s Rangers of Shadow Deep self published via the site with a lot less risk to the author than going with a KS, and Mr McCullough is a bit of a veteran now at such things and went that way rather than trying to do a Kick Starter).

[torros 23816xp 0]

Agree with everything that’s been said. Get the rules right first

[limburger 21714xp 0]

@royalpain621 I’m tempted to advice against building what people want.
Build the game *you* (and your friends) want to play.
You don’t want to find yourself spending time and resources on something that doesn’t feel quite right simply because others claimed that it was ‘better’.
If you are having fun then it will be much easier to convince people that the game is worth a peek.

And take a look at how ‘clash of spears’ was promoted on this forum :

Talking a bit about CLASH of Spears ( well more than a bit )

If you find yourself in a position to take it beyond a bit of hobby then a self-published title may be the most cost effective way of doing so.
Kickstarters require lots of pro-quality product photos and sleek images, because that’s how you attract visitors in a crowded market.

 

 

[royalpain621Participant 3503xp 0]

I am aware of the pit fall of letting the community to design a game. They will want everything and then the ruleset will be so full, so loaded down with stuff that it will become unplayable.

I do wish to have this set in its own unique universe and as an amateur writer, I will be writing some short stories to coincide with the rules and who knows, it may help gather a larger community? Who knows.

I have seen and backed many kickstarters where the minis were not available but will be and then once those minis were released, support of it has wained.

I be happy to follow the Albedo route from Sally 4th where they at the start had minis available.

As for rules, I have a very rough frame work but I still would like to hear impute from the community about some of these ideas. As mentioned earlier and suggested, I will start a weekly to bi-weekly project blog starting Friday. This will give me time to not only implement any good ideas and fair changes but also test them out myself before moving on to the next item.

[redvers 21054xp 0]

As already said, get the rules sorted first. You also say that you are a writer, so use your skills here to draw people in and get them interested. Write the short stories, expand the background and look to promote this – there are plenty of self publish routes that you can take here. This will draw people into your universe and get them interested.

Once you have some interested people who enjoy your universe, you stand a better chance of getting them into rule development, testing and refinement. Get this base right and you can then look at miniatures. Use the skills that you have to progress the project forward to get people interested.

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