January 21, 2013 by warzan
Video Sponsors: Battle Foam – Mercs
Kicking off our coverage of Dark Angels Week Darrell and Andy join Warren in the new Beasts of War studio to have a chat about what they think of the new codex and some of the HQ Characters that can lead your forces to victory.
Supported by (Turn Off)
2
Turner Miniatures Bringing Mighty 28mm Ships To Kickstarter
4
Join The French Resistance! Wargames Atlantic’s New Set
3
Grab Your New Sohei Warrior Monks From FireForge Games
1
Para Bellum Introduce A New Edition Of Conquest: First Blood
5
Wargames Atlantic 10mm Agincourt English & French Now Out!
3
Join In! TerrainFest 2025 + The Plastic Crack Podcast Challenge
5
Join The Space Troopers From Lafig Miniatures On Kickstarter
0
Add 6mm Peninsular War Terrain To Your Tiny Battlefields
1
Warp’s 3D Printable Clockwork Cavalry Ride Out On Patreon
0
Snap Up Wild West Exodus Christmas Minis This Month
1
Unleash The Queen’s Blade For Fantasy Game, Eldfall Chronicles
1
Grab New Battlefleets & More For TTCombat’s Dropfleet Commander
1
Returning Warhammer Miniatures Land On Boxing Day This Year
4
Elegant Killers & Next Wave Expansions For Infinity In 2026
2
Predators & Hardened Guards Come To Warcrow Next Year
1
Build Dark Age Armies & Take Part In Hastings960 Project!
5
Guild Ball Goes Digital Via New MyMiniFactory Store
5
Celebrate Gotrek & Felix With Special Edition Trollslayer Set
1
Indulgent Demons, Elementals & Ogres From Satyr Art Studio
0
The Scions Of Dagon Emerge For TTCombat’s Carnevale
1
Freebooter Miniatures’ Sci-Fi Game, Ascending Fate, Coming Soon!
1
Add New Home Guard To 1st Corps World War II Collection
5
Snag Some New MDF Ruined City Terrain From Warlord Games
0
Tickets Are Now Available For UK Games Expo 2026!
2
Don’t Miss Exclusive Dropfleet Commander Ships From TTCombat
8
Embrace Retro Sci-Fi With Hydra Miniatures’ 10mm Atomic Tank!
3
The Mounties Join Street Scraps In The Chicago Way
![Warcradle Studios Reveal TINY New 10mm Festive Marker! [Updated]](https://images.beastsofwar.com/2025/11/christmas-kyle-main-600-338.jpg)
2
Warcradle Studios Reveal TINY New 10mm Festive Marker! [Updated]
4
The Perrys Expand Their 28mm Ottoman Army Collection
2
Snatch Up Witches & Wanderers From Black Crab’s Kickstarter
Hey guys, the quality of the camera does not seem as good as it usually is. Was it particularly cold at Tabletop Nation?
Liked the episode so far.
Could it be that GW are not implementing the power creep now? Credit where credit is due, as there is way to much faffing about in 40K, which is one of the reasons I no longer play tbh, but I do fully understand your concerns about making units fit the fluff. Perhaps this will encourage people to field armies that they like, rather than units they have to take to be competitive? For this to work, they will have to maintain this direction for a few more years. Lets just hope GW management can make some good dice rolls or else become subject to the perils of the warp!!!
Combine this move, with reducing the silly pricing system and I may roll some dice in anger in the 40K universe. hehe
Yes, Sammael needs to join a unit, however as he isn’t an Independent Character he can’t join a unit (the same as in the prior DA Codex).
It does list Independent character under special rules in the Army List section for Sammael. He has Hit and Run, Independent Character, Inner Circle, Scouts and Skilled Rider. It does just lists it as Character in the Fluff description section but I would go by the army list. I did not see anything about it in the FAQ.
Sorry it does have Independent Character in his special rules in the Fluff description also.
what the hell happened to 40k I left for two years now and iam not turning back.
iam playing mercs and x-wing.
While I see the argument for the TH/SS load-out, I would like to point out that Fleshbane on the Sword of Silence is always wounds on a 2+ NOT re-rolls to wound.
Don’t get me wrong, I don’t think he’s worth it either & I’m fairly disappointed by the book (I had hoped for characters with some real vigour & wish some of the new Ravenwing toys were competitively priced (in terms of points), still just for the record.
Good video guys. I guess Warren’s complaint was that bland rules, even if they arent powerful, don’t really make people want to play. It does seem a lot of the time its difficult for writers to strive a good balance of interesting but overpowered vs. bland but fair.
Shame that Asmodai is a bit bland rules-wise, he has very cool background.
Correct, but I sense a fear to try and write interesting game rules.
Azrael’s helmet bearer used to be very important back in 2nd edition 40K. the Watcher in the Dark has the same rules as a Power Field Generator in the new codex. and needs to be placed within 3″ ir Azrael. I rememeber back in 2nd ed I had so much fun trying to fit as manay tac marines within 3″ of the Watcher in the Dark. Good times indeed.
There’s a lot of this video spent making schoolboy helmet gags.
Understand that this is not a complaint :o)
Good vid guys. Basically got to agree, our ‘Special’ characters arent all that special. They’re pretty disappointing if im being honest: average at best special weapons, no ew, not great special rules either
Belial and Sammael are the best two for me and like you say belial’s a bit overpriced
Come on Beasts of War guys, look up the rules. Belial has an iron halo, making a storm shield fairly useless. fleshbane means 2+ to wound, not matter what. oh, tough 6? 2+ to wound. Tough 8? 2+ to wound. I would say there is now no reason to take a TH/SS, as presicion shots on 5+ and 2+ to wound and a re-roll to him in melee against most things. This makes him great for hunting warlords when you add that he can drop a termie squad, 5 or 10 men, excatly where he wants them and everything is twin-linked upon arrival.
I think they edited it afterwards and it was displayed on the screen in writing mate. only watched it once but sure the errata was on there.
Yup errata came out after we started filming we went back and re recorded the main ones and annotated the others (which you should have seen on screen).
I think you guys are being blinded by the cheese found elsewhere. This codex is very balanced and I don’t see anything that strikes as overcosted (yes, even the fliers, the DA ones aren’t overcosted, its the other way around, Helldrakes, Galleries, et al. are way too good for their points).
i would say that the fliers are a bit over-priced, but not much else
Valkeries *
Stupid auto correct on my Nexus 7
A couple of points here:
You kinda have to take other codices into account when dissecting these, especially the popular ones (even more so marine based codices)
I personally don’t have a problem with balanced, so long as its interesting :o)
So a Codex that is balanced isn’t good because when compared by what the community considered by and large are OP Codexes / Strategies (GK, SW, Necron Flier Spam, etc.) it doesn’t hold up? That’s like saying a Knife isn’t a good weapon because it sucks in a gunfight. 😉
1) there is no such thing as balanced
2) I think fun and interesting need to come before balance
3) remember when you are quoting ‘the community’ at me that I am a part of that community too 😉
4) I’m not interested in cheese, I’m looking for cool gaming moments, epic weapons that are represented by +1WS are not exactly doing it for me at the moment 🙂
1. True enough but you can get pretty darn close and I think this Codex did.
2. That is your opinion, and you are entitled to it. But it isn’t how everyone thinks. I am in the middle, I too like interesting rules but even if it is a cool rule, if it stinks or is overpowered, it won’t sit well with me.
3. As am I ;). BUT don’t tell me with a straight face that the majority doesn’t consider GK, SW, etc overpowered. My point was that if you are comparing stuff to things that many think aren’t fairly costed, you’ll get a skewed view in the end.
4. I actually agree that the book has a simple rule, true, but it does fit the fluff so I am ok with it. Ezekiel carries a book that every Dark Angel knows hold great value and because of that, they will fight with greater vigor and concentration / focus when near it so it doesnt fall in the wrong hands, thus WS plus one fits.
1) Balance has to be considered across everything else better and more fun codices exist they know what works so no excuse really for dull 🙂
2) So are we to pretend GK etc doesnt exist when disecting these books?
3) simple is fine, I’ve no problem with simple, but no excuse for bland.
They went safe in this book because they don’t play test any more 😉
1. how many 40k games did I play as a ork player when 6th edition hit 3 and a half.
2. there is a definitive difference between being blinded by other more abused rule mis-haps than by being blind to the fact that this game is an over priced turd floating in the punch bowl known as war gaming.
3. how many other games did I play??? between malifaux and warmahordes it is way off the chart. therefore it is also noteworthy to mention, that this latest release is just more proof that 40k is on its way out and the race is on for the next larger and more solid war game to hit the shelf.
I have my favorites whats yours?
4. another vulgar display of ignorance handed down from games workshop is declaring they are a model company first. As they jack up prices even more every year- do you mental midgets expect anything less than a sub standard codex release ? -really-
One thing for sure is this release make my other armies look good 🙂
atleast its not a overpowered hock more plastic release like grey knights and necron releases
In closing I have been a BoW fan for a long time but I feel they are losing ground by not focusing on other more prolific games such as warmahordes, infinity, malifaux etc… heres a channel to show other people out here are filling that gap. Hopefully the guys here will focus more on others. You got the guys that can do it. Dont understand why they are not.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x14zSvQCaTI
One of the things that has really annoyed me about this codex is not the stat lines but the discount bargain-bucket units. Taking one of the “vanilla” HQ’s in there of Librarian as an example what one of my regular opponents likes to throw out there is a Libby with Divination to essentially have twin-linked sniper rifles. This book makes a squad of 10 Scouts with that 55 points cheaper than it was before. There literally is no difference worth mentioning between the two but the new codex has the same units at less cost and 55 more in your pocket isn’t to be sniffed at.
Why it annoys me is that I’m an Ork player. Making HQ’s and troops significantly cheaper majorly affects the balance here because our feature is we’ve got cheaper, more plentiful units. Making your vanilla HQ’s and troops cheaper means that the point in the Ork, or any horde army, is diminished because the gap closes.
I hadn’t noticed this in the Chaos codex before seeing this one, where there’s easier comparisons to draw, but it’s the same there. A Chaos Sorcerer is now only 5 points more than an Ork Weirdboy. Every stat is either superior or equal, they’ve got access to the broader powers of the new codex, a force weapon and aren’t likely to blow up their own unit and they get all that over Orks psyker for a mere 5 points. DA, it’s only 10.
I really think the last two releases really through the balance off.
Why is the unit cheaper than Vanilla?
– No Veteran Sgt by default
– Grim Resolve nerfing And They Shall Know No Fear
Please people, look at the big picture and read the whole rules.
It is cheaper than vanilla. Yes you have to pay for a Veteran Sgt but you get a Scout Sgt by default (which is exactly what the vanilla and other loyalists have) and they’re essentially unchanged (minus no combat tactics) but the libby is a major discount.
Please, look at the big picture and read the whole rules 😉
No. Vanilla Scouts are 15point cheaper. That’s pretty fair given they can use ATSKNF to its full effect and Chapter Tactics.
Librarian in Vanilla is a lvl 2 Psyker, a DA lvl 2 Psyker is the same 100 points (65 base plus upgrade). And he doesn’t have full ATSKNF and Chapter Tactics. So yeah, DA Librarians aren’t better.
I’m not sure where your getting your misinformation form but to be clear a vanilla Librarian is only Mastery Level 1. From the FAQ:
Q: What Mastery Level is a Space Marine Librarian?
A: Mastery Level 1. An Epistolary is Mastery Level 2. They both
know two powers.
To get a level 2 Vanilla Libby you’re spending 150 points, that’s 50% more than the DA one and it’s the DA’s scouts that are 15 points cheaper at 60 points for the squad rather than 75 on all the other loyalist SM forces and you’re point on ATSKNF is meaningless given Inner Circle gives them Fearless and Preferred Enemy (Chaos Marines). That’s not only cheaper than vanilla marines but the other loyalist marine outfits out there and significantly, like I say you’re paying 50% more for a mastery level 2 and very specifically that has a bigger impact on “cheap” armies such as Orks because the points gap between a Libby and it’s closest equivalent (Weirdboy) has narrowed a great deal, effectively reducing the value of the Ork unit which to me is ramping the codex creep up a notch and just unbalancing the game even further.
“Please look at the big picture and read the rules” good advice i suggest you take it. The vanilla libby may start with 2 powers but he isn’t mastery level 2 so he can’t cast two powers a turn while the DA can.
I’m not saying one is defo better than the other but you can certainly make a case for it.
The big point Vanilla has over DA is the ability to fall back. That IS worth something.
I missed the point on the Lvl thing, and I apologize that. Nevertheless, I don’t think Vanilla Librarians got the shaft. The Lvl 1 Vanilla vs Lvl 2 DA are somewhat even. Both get 2 powers, while DA gets a second Warp Charge, Vanilla gets the fall back advantage. But Lvl 2 vs Lvl two gives an edge to DA, because the ability to fall back shouldn’t be worth 50 points. Even so, that is just one IC (perhaps other IC have a bit of an edge) but SM Vanilla is an Codex showing its age. I think that the Units are comparable still.
The big point Vanilla has over DA is the ability to fall back. That IS worth something.
I missed the point on the Lvl thing, and I apologize that. Nevertheless, I don’t think Vanilla Librarians got the shaft. The Lvl 1 Vanilla vs Lvl 2 DA are somewhat even. Both get 2 powers, while DA gets a second Warp Charge, Vanilla gets the fall back advantage. But Lvl 2 vs Lvl two gives an edge to DA, because the ability to fall back shouldn’t be worth 50 points. Even so, that is just one IC (perhaps other IC have a bit of an edge) but SM Vanilla is an Codex showing its age. I think that the Units are comparable still.
Well, to go back when I used the term “vanilla” it wasn’t Vanilla Marines i.e. Codex Space Marines, which I admit is perhaps a little confusing, I meant as in your plain in-every-codex type units. Blood Angels Librarians, for example, can’t fall back either but are 100 points. When we’re getting into rules live that we’re talking individual codex flavour. The reason I picked that particular example is that it’s popular combo with my opponents at it’s just got 55 points cheaper with real detriment and those points can make a big difference.
The point is that the core of your bog standard space marine units are now cheaper (in some cases much cheaper like the Librarian) than they were. Assault and Scout Squads 15 points cheaper, Tactical and Devastator squads 20 points cheaper, etc. and while at a glance there’s no balance issues because the capabilities of the units are comparable that lower price disadvantages the armies that haven’t had a 6th Ed release yet because on the older codex you’re getting less for your money than the DA are on your army core. As an Ork player I’ve certainly already felt it. Our armies work on overwhelming numbers and now that Chaos and DA have cheaper units that gap in number of boots on the ground has narrowed.
Nice video I rather enjoy the silliness, more than the rules these days to be honest.
GW have become too predictable , the problem with this codex , aside from needing an faq within a week, is that its just so formulaic.named captain, named librarian, named chaplain , 1 character unlocks one new boxset as troops , one character unlocks the other new boxset as troops.
Sadly, to me, in one of the richest settings in sci fi literature, they really seem to have run out of ideas.
The FAQ didn’t really address any issues. It was just typos basically.
That “FAQ” was done before release when you consider that the digital codex had those typos prepatched before release.
That is a disgrace.
I don’t believe that this book was ever meant for tournaments. I think it is clear having read the book that it was meant for new players who have bought the starter set and are now wanting to go and further their collection. I don’t think it was a book for hardcore DA players at all, just a book to represent the new starter army; a fun, easy to paint, and relatively easy army to play which I find sad tbh
I don’t believe GW makes any of their codexes for tournaments. In the BRB they are always talking about forming a narrative in your battles. They have a chapter on running a campaign but nothing on Tournaments.
So much negativity in these posts! I personally am a fanboy from 2nd ed (never touched 3rd and 5th codex), and I love how they retained the fluff of the Dark Angels. Apart from Beast of War, most other podcasts agreed that this is a very well made high (not top nor OP) codex. Isn’t that what most gamers should hope for? We all complained on OP codex like Grey Knights in 5th. so shouldn’t we give more credit to balanced codex?
Every new codex will have its new niche. it will feel overpowered to some (yarr’s oaks) or underpowered to some (Darell’s Laysander). but isn’t this constant dynamic the great part of our game?
I don’t believe this is a high quality product at all, but I’ll get into that through the week.
Again, my number one hope for any codex (or army book or game) is flavour in the rules, to me it’s a bit pointless having epic descriptions of lore and weapons etc if no effort what so ever is expended on replicating it in the game.
But we’ll see as the week continues 🙂
I think the codex could be fun to play and collect as it has alot of options for different armys and styles of play. You have Dwing, Rwing, Greenwing and any combo of those. While I agree some of it is dry IMO thats how the Dark Angels are in the fluff. They are a bunch of solemn monks who don’t care about recognition or making friends. In fact they just want to be left alone to fight the emperors enemys and hunt the Fallen. I thinks thats the reason them and the Space Wolves don’t get along, they are fundamental opposites. When Russ and Lion got in that fight Russ started laughing at the end and Lion just got P’Od and decked him and stormed off.
I think its still early to pass judgment.
Dry Chapter shouldn’t = Dry Gameplay 🙂
Some things are dry but there are dry things in most of the codexes. It has some fun things to, The banner that makes all bolters within 6″ salvo 2/4 for instance or that one off strike the DW Knights can make when they really need to bash someone. I prefer rules fitting the fluff over making up fluff to fit some crazy rule.
IMO there is some fun to be had with this Codex. It may not fit everyones style of play but thats why there are other forces.
Good vid, keep the helmet and blessings gags coming.
Minor points – as someone said above, camera angles and visual quality was a bit hmmmn, but more importantly to me, the sound level is too low. I’ve got volume settings at max (am on headphones) and am struggling to hear.
Found yet a third ‘master volume’ in the bowels of my PC…… ignore above comment
and……. duh!
no no the sound levels are too low I agree
Well i am not surprised the bow guys are disliking this codex as it is clearly not a powergamer codex. All the things they mention as better or more “interesting” than the DA stuff are from the OP codex era, an era that is over. Problem is that GW are too slow to release codexes and dont amend points via faqs on the older codexes. If they did grey knight terminators, space wolves, necron flyers would rise in points.
Yes the DA feels abit bland in places, and there are filler units. But thank god it is not a wars codex.
And as for the fluff being bland…. well it is serious fluff for a serious chapter. And tyvm for thar, no blood angel crappy fluff.
I am going to give my thoughts on Belial and the others characters.
First off, I am going to agree that Asmodai sucks he is 30pts more than a normal Interrogator-Chaplain with a Chapter Relic that is not even worth 10pts Hell take a normal Interrogator-Chaplain with a Mace of Redemption (page 67) for a total of 10pts more than Asmodai and you get a better character.
My deference of Belial is based off comparing him to a generic Company Master with Terminator Armour.
He only costs 30pts more than generic master, for that you get:
-A fleshbane, Master-crafted weapon, and the option for Thunder Hammer and Storm Shield or pair of lighting claws for free (which the generic cannot take as options)
-Teleport homer
-Tactical Precision (does not scatter on Deep Strike)
-Precision shots on a 5+
For the other Characters my fist point is they all got cheaper (5-15pts) and better (each detailed below)
Azrael got better in the fact that he makes Ravenwing and Deathwing troops. (I still want to model him wearing the Helm)
Ezekiel got better in the fact that Mindworm got buffed (even if it is still sup-par) and he can take Divination, and his book got buffed from making anyone within 12” fearless to buffing WS
Sammael got better in the fact he got a 4++ while in his speeder form, Hit & Run, Independent Character, Scouts, and Skilled Rider plus a teleport homer.
I will not argue that these characters are bland from a rules point of view, but I would not call them weak or overpriced. They embody what this book is, a well crafted and purposeful (other than Ezekiel and Asmodai, the first is alright but I will take a generic and the later is less than generic) codex. Could the book be better, yes, is it as bad as you are making out to be at this point, no. It is like one of those rocks that looks normal on the outside, but open it up and it is all shiny and awesome on the inside.
the chaos codex was just a bit meh… so far dark angels seems to be continuing that trend
Some great points here 🙂
Agreed – think this only appears bland because nothing is so overpowered it looks like an auto-include… particularly when it comes to characters – if one of them was amazingly awesome, why would you bother taking any of the others?… if they’re all amazingly awesome then surely that just becomes the new bland?
Also, perhaps a lot of this has to do with the lack of major surprises in the codex? But then, that’s probably a bit hard for the DA who are essentially a regular marine chapter that happens to have funky 1st and 2nd companies – if they’d really wanted to surprise people they’d have gotten rid of the green wing all together, but then that would be screwing with people’s collections 😉
Cool vid though 🙂
the great sounding weapons all seemed abit crappy tbh or was that just me>?
Myself, and everyone I know in my Dark Angels community are very pissed off about this video. Yes, your entitled to your openions, but when your going to dis our army and say it sucks while explaining what our army does, at least get the rules right. I & meny others have officially removed you from our favorites list and will no longer be comming to your site-
lol your crazy
being in the same community as @castillo1313 I was slightly miffed but not to the degree as he indicates, and frankly then I was awesome again because I remembered I had a new codex to try stuff with…. True story.
I really like the idea of watchers in the dark and annoys me when you laugh from it for a 5 minutes. I bet that Darell and the gang would like to see buckets of dice, every-time you use bolter.
I came back to WH40k after long break and feel like there is no better time to be DA.
Guys I don’t want over powered Books and characters. All I want to see is a balance with the current books.
@darrell totally agree. when I win a game I like to think it was down to me not my army.
I totally agree with you Darrell. However, I am thinking that it is a shift in the style of the codex for the future. I.e. all future codecs will have this sort of format, thereby reducing power creep. Its just a thought, I am not suggesting for one moment that it holds true. For me, C:SM codex was a bit like the DA one. With this pattern of books, it will allow people to field armies that they choose rather than armies that HAVE to contain certain units in order to survive and be competitive. This will afford the very best of Generals a chance to seise the mantle in a style of their choosing. 🙂 After all, chess is a very exciting game and the pieces have no real special powers (It does help to don a tank-top in order to see my issue here though). 😛
It is a shame that the special Characters sometimes seem a bit meh. I was hoping that Asmodai would be someone really worth taking. Though it`s great that he has things like instant death it just seems a little dull and I wonder how many Interrogator Chaplains will actually make an appearance in what seems a pretty packed HQ section. Also don`t forget this is only the second codex out for 6th edition and so it may be that they are trying to keep some balance although I was hoping for a bit more to set Dark Angels apart from Vanilla marines.
I have no issue with price drops or price rises in general as long as it fits with the background. My Hope is that any new marines codex`s don`t get all the abilities that are in this book. Last time the DA codex was released all other marines got similar rules. I guess time will tell if this codex stands up once lots of people start playing them.
Oh and sorry for the ramble 🙂
@darrell and @warren I think you missed the point of the Warlord Trait “the hunt” it says the character and the unit that he is with. I think that the characters particularly Azrael Belial and Eziekiel are by themselves weaker (than some HQ choices) but combine them with other units they rock. Pardon the pun…
You’ve missed one named character, you can now take Seraphicus! He’s a normal Int-Chaplin with a plasma pistol and they’re the good points. You have to replace zealot with litanies of the dark angels which just sucks as it’s chaos only.
As for Azreal he’s very fluffy but not great in game. You want him in one of darrells delete units because of his combi plasma otherwise you can bugger up your own charges. Then you want deathwing and ravenwing as your troops or pay for rules and then ditch them.
You see what I mean? He’s the supreme grand master because he can be used with all DA units but he’s not good unless you try to use a fairly convoluted army.
The rest of the codex isn’t much better, it’s better than the previous version but it’s just a slightly powered up version of the last codex.
FYI watchers in the dark are suppossed to be warp entities that came into being during the fall of Caliban as warp entities are manifestaitons of emotions in the warp. I can’t see them as manifestaions of the DA’s rage at the fallen unless they scream “Your knee caps are at me mercy!”
I have to agree with Darrell and Warzan on this video that the HQ characters are definitely overpriced for what they bring to the table. If they Belial/Sammael had 4 wounds it would be more worth it but as they are they are too rigid in their loadouts. The generic Company Masta isn’t too bad at 130 points in Terminator Armor if you want an IC to run with the DW Knights (who are the only auto-take in my opinion).