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Weekender XLBS: Mennes’ Amazing Khador & Wargame Masters?
October 9, 2016 by warzan
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Happy Sunday!
Well first off let me say as I am sure many people will agree, lets be glad there wasn’t any problems with the most important weekneder 😀
So, Kill Team, let me say a few things, I think it is a great way to play the game, and yes @warzan it is very very different from the normal game in one way, you can get a game in quite quickly. But it does have the problems of the normal game with power gaming, the thing is it is all about the people you play with. If you play with good people your good, but if your playing with power gamers, then prepare for the cringe.
There is a few things that really makes it an unpleasant experience, re-rolling saving throws, bikes/jetbikes, and eldar with the jumping back after firing. I think the biggest thing is the spirit of the people whom you are playing with more than anything else. I think power gaming is fine so long as everyone is on the same page with that, both parties are coming to the table with the idea that they are going to try to play with the most powerful armies they can. If there is a mismatch then…
Anyway, that Jokaero junkie has a real problem, his not called Mr. Fix because he works as a mechanic…
Happy Sunday!
Happy Sunday!
Happy Sunday.
Cannot stop looking at the Dropfleet book
So glad Warzan appreciated my purple appendage. 😀
It was magnificent!
Happy Sunday! Well mission accomplished. Made it onto the weekender XLBS. Im famous!
Seriously thanks for answering my slightly tongue and cheek comment @warzan. I know you wouldn’t compromise normal content for ReRoll, and yes your quite right I do need to chillax and take some time on the throne to read through ReRoll. Have ordered the comfy seat and look forward to explaining to the kids why I’m now spending even more time on the loo. From one short attention span git to another .. cheers @warzan.
Lol no probs mate, we can compare seats 😉
Omg – Tomas, your Khador army is amazing. The awesome paint scheme the dynamic poses and the cameo bases set this army above pretty much any other Khador army I’ve seen. The action poses are stunning, huge thumbs up. I would love to see more of your work. @warzan @dignity please encourage Tomas to shoot a series of airbrush tutorials. Some studio shots would be great for Re-Roll
Beige/taupe/camel… Yellow Ochre – whatever – never looked so good!
Happy Sunday!
I don’t now what codec you’re using for these backstage videos, but they won’t even consider playing on my Android tablet and even on my laptop I keep hitting ‘the buffers’ at various points (14:42 the first).
I’m loving Warren’s euphamisms flying over Justin’s head and hitting Ben in the funnybone 😉
But is Ben the omnipresent GM – or a floating Beholder?
I like to think I’m a bit of both 😉
Ben’s right about my comment. It was the Strategies and Schemes mechanism in Malifaux forefront in my mind, although other games have similar. For thosewho don’t know this game:
– a single Strategy is flipped (cards not dice remember) which is open and shared by both sides. These vary from
– a pool of 5 schemes (1 option always included) are then generated from which each player secretly selects two. Again a wide variety to pool and select from. Some involve territorial activity (usually involving dropping Scheme tokens) while others include:
> assassinating the leader or certain types of models,
> getting one of your own models killed,
> making sure one of your or your opponent’s models is NOT killed but surrounded at the end.
These are usually hidden until you start scoring on them, most you can’t score on until the second turn on. Each strat and scheme is limited in terms of the maximum points you can score per game (and sometimes per turn) – out of 10 overall.
THEN you select your crew knowing your objectives.
You can imagine that during opening crew declaration and first couple of turns are as much about trying to work out what your opponent’s selected schemes are as focussing on your own.
To defend Justin (gasp) about augmented reality, maybe he was referring to an AI driven GM which has various scenario routings through a game. For example, “The first to discover three clues from those on the table is told of a richer reward at another point that they have to hold until the end of the game. The opponent doesn’t have to know this yet (Fog of war) so also has to continue uncovering clues – or is set a different objective.”
If you haven’t played Mansions of Madness yet – do. Then imagine that on the tabletop.
I’ll be your “Big In The Centre Host” for a threesome… I’ll even bring the batteries!
@warzan: To continue the discussion around the zombie apocalypse games. One you also may want to check out is Outbreak: Undead from Hunters Books.
re: Playing zombie apocalypse games as yourself and dealing with your loved ones. To be honest, that’s one of the great strengths of RPGs – to put yourself into situations and explore them from a “safe” place. For example, a lot of people like to play Vampire as the “I’m a badass/suave/powerful vampire”. And that’s fine. But you can also play it with the emphasis on dealing with the personal horror of being a monster. In any case, regardless of what the may be “sensitive” it’s always a good idea to warn your players and either know the limits you can go to or have a “timeout” mechanism.
Finally, if you like base-building, check out Modiphius’s Mutant: Year Zero. They have a really good system for base building that could easily be ported into other RPGs.
Another cracking show chaps 🙂
And ref the Army Painter method I gotta say a variant of that has become my go-to technique for my minis now. (Almost) all of my Infinity use a colour primer (that I try to keep faction specific), block in some details then hit with a wash of some sort. Not nessecarily one of AP’s dips or tones but something to give the model a specific shade. It’s given me some great results, especially once I’ve gone back over “resetting” the base colours.
I do need to breakout the dip method for some of my boardgames though – Zombicide, Zombicide Black Plague, Rise of the Kage, Super Dungeon Explore and the incoming Conan just demand paint….
Happy Sunday! Must admit that I swear by the army painter dips still. Before I discovered them I had got into that mind set where it was taking weeks to paint a figure. Still do that with character minis, but for the rank and file its block paint and brushed on dip.
Warzan sitting on the sofa..”Oooo….Ahh ………..”
@warzan You let a great opportunity slip you by to become the countries finest Frankie Howerd impersonator
The AP dip is a nice product though it does tend to darken everything down if your not careful. If your going over white I would recommend a clesn brush and some white spirit to gently remove the excess
For tanks etc I would recommend thinning it down slightly
My best advice is to always brush it on and only do 3 or 4 models at a time as the products pools quickly and is hard to get rid of the excess after 4 or 5 mins. Also for tanks etc it works nicely if you do any highlighting before you print the dip on
If you want a water soluble method then I highly recommend the Future Wash method which I have used from 6 to 28mm
I think the thing GW need to be careful of with Kill Team is given it’s a different game to 40K, that people don’t start playing it instead of 40K. If they’re smart they’ll incorporate Kill Team into the next edition of the game as a small model-count version of the same game, which you start with and build up to a full army from there. Also, if we don’t start seeing 6×4 mats from GW, then a shrinking of the model count in the next edition of 40K is a real possibility. 4×4 still gives a lot of space to field good-sized armies with a few big centrepiece models, as Warmachine has demonstrated.
I have friends attending the Kill Team weekend next month. Some are even taking two different forces so they can essentially get two tourneys in one weekend. It seems like they are already trying to cater for it.
You misunderstand :). I don’t mean they’re not trying to cater for both games, I mean Kill Team is a separate game to 40K, and therefore it is has the double risk of not serving as an entry point for new players to 40K, and of creating its own scene of people who do not play 40K. By contrast, Warmachine has its small model-coint version in its starter boxes, but it is not a different game, and it is structured in such a way as to attract new players and lead them up to full-sized games. No-one sticks at playing starter box only games of Warmachine, they are the first step, but they also serve the purpose of introducing new players to the exact same game that is played at full size. If GW are smart, they will use the next edition of 40K to intergrate Kill Team into 40K to lower the barrier to entry and to structure new customers from a low entry point to the full game. As things stand, Kill Team is not well suited to that.
I see what you are saying buddy. Do you think 40k has an entry point for new players?
Also it would be good to hear why you think they are different games as to me it is 40k with a different force organisation chart. I have only played a couple of games of Warmachine so am not sure how it does scaling up to a 40+ aside model game.
The question I would put to you is if Kill Team really should be a gateway into 40k? As it stands now, other than historicals, I believe 40k is the largest game on the market in terms of scale. At this point, it has no hope of being balanced out as there are too many characters,races,war gear,vehicles ex. existing in the 40k universe. The only option is to break it down and build it back again. If they are going to bother to do that then why not just make it smaller. Older gamers will still have their mini collections to use while the ultimate barrier, money, will be lessened. The people I know playing Age Of Sigmar are using mostly older pieces anyway, as the new models continue to get more expensive. It seems large scale gaming just can’t hold its own weight anymore against other options. Besides, smaller games get you several games in on game night instead of one you may not even finish. Just a thought.
I think there’s a very good argument to make for breaking 40K down and building it back up in the next edition as a lower model count game. At the other end of scale, Warmachine is probably the best example of how you keep your customer base buying models without also requiring them to field massive armies. For the record, I don’t play Warmachine or 40K and have no inherent personal bias to either.
From a business point of view it absolutely makes sense for GW to have a low entry point to 40K, especially one which does not compete with 40K. They’ve been steadily losing customers year-on-year, and have remained profitable only through cost-cutting. This is not something that can continue, and they clearly understand that the high barrier to entry to the game is a problem and they are doing things to try and address that.
“Also it would be good to hear why you think they are different games as to me it is 40k with a different force organisation chart. I have only played a couple of games of Warmachine so am not sure how it does scaling up to a 40+ aside model game.”
My understanding of Kill Team is that the models activate individually. Also, it is sold as a separate game to 40K. As today’s show demonstrates, a customer can just decide to play Kill Team. A Warmachine customer does not decide to just play starter box games. Rather, they are playing Warmachine at its entry point with the intention of building from there.
I haven’t played the current iteration of the WM rules. I personally found its sweet spot was 35pt games in Mk2, rather than the standard 50pt games, but that is as much to do with my personal preference, as the game works just as well at both levels. The real genius of the game, one which many skirmish games also do, is that when you reach 50pts you don’t stop buying and nor do you have to field massive armies. The design of the game promotes constant purchases by changing how your army plays if you switch out some models for others. This is how you square the circle of low-ish model count to keep the barrier to entry low with selling lots of models. 40K do a lot worse than incorporating a similar model in its next edition (which is not to say to copy Warmachine, but to incorporate that model in a way that works for 40K).
X-Wing is an example of another way you incentivise purchases without making the game bigger. Its model is different to Warmachine’s, and in many ways is informed by card gaming rather than mini-gaming. Here, a mini is packaged with cards which can be used with a variety of minis in the range. If you want the card to use with a different ship, you have to buy two products, one for the ship and one for the card. X-Wing has had power builds which required buying three copies of a ship you wouldn’t use just to get three copies of the card (IIRC it was the Millenium Falcon). Personally, I prefer a model which lets you use the minis you buy, but there’s no denying this has been very successful for X-Wing.
@redben your right buddy each model does activate individually. Once the game starts each model is considered to be its own unit. I am not sure how else you would do a low model entry for 40K.
Disappointingly I rarely have the free time to hobby at all anymore and would love to be more diverse in the forces I could field and games I could play.
“your right buddy each model does activate individually. Once the game starts each model is considered to be its own unit. I am not sure how else you would do a low model entry for 40K”
40K as it stands doesn’t lend itself well to scaling down in this way. A Warmachine starter is giving you models which activate individually at any size of game, and it works at any size of game. It’s very easy to then add squads to it as you build. The next edition of 40K can be designed in such a way as to allow for this lower point of entry.
Then I am left wondering if GW will ultimately survive at all. No matter how big you get nature and evolution always has her say. Many an industry giant, thought unstoppable, has gone or been swallowed up by others over the years. And the gaming landscape seems to be shifting faster than most these days. While I don’t wish failure on anybody, perhaps this is the start of what was always coming.
It’s certainly a concern (even for me as a non-GW customer). I think they have to evolve, and they look like they are trying to evolve. Where it ends up remains to be seen.
@redben. As to the X-wing comment I hear things might be getting tough there as well. Friends say that in the beginning, it was about how good a pilot you were. as more and more card expansions and special abilities have been released, The strategy has been mitigated to nothing. Now a specific set of abilities, upgrades, and ships can make a player almost unbeatable. In an attempt to expand the game, and make more money, the game has delivered unto us the instruments of its own destruction.
It’s a game I’ve only played casually. I play some of the FFG LCGs competitively and consequently find myself on the periphery of its tournament scene. It seemed to have balance issues in the early days, which I’m told were addressed. I can well believe what you say is an issue for the game. As you pile more stuff in you get bloat which can suffocate a game. FFG have been very happy in the past to make significant erratas to their card games to keep them fresh. I wonder if they’ll do the same to X-Wing.
Dr Phil Hendry has got the AP dip down to a fine art
You can have a look here
http://philhendry.me.uk/Phil_Wargaming_Website/third_century_roman_photo_a/index.html
Oh my, Tomas’s Khador stuff is amazing and I love the movement that he has created into the model.
I was interested to hear you talk about streamlining 40K. I for one have come away from 40K due to a couple of reasons, one of them being how convoluted it has gotten. I feel like many companies GW have to keep moving forward and release products. We have seen rules and units in the past that we thought were spot on and perfect as they were but were adjusted in the next edition or on a new release without gaining anything and often falling foul of becoming cheesy as you guys put it.
We have seen armies stagnate for very long times and fall foul of this motion forward where with the current rule set they are just not really viable anymore and as a force on the tabletop look dated as well.
I do wonder if it would be better even if not as financially smart to get each units rules to a good point and then put their money into bringing all there minis up to date. In saying this I do believe GW make some lovely minis but we have seen them release rules and books where there wasn’t even a mini available to play a new unit and were forced to use a counts even at a GW tourney. Tyranids were an example of this in the past but Warhammer World allowed me to use proxies.
I would like to know what the games you mentioned as having a very good rule system are as I am interested to see if there are many that have the character cards with the rules on them as part of the game. Essentially if its the core rules in these games that is simple, due to a lot of the complicated rules not being in them but specified on character/unit cards.
Some lovey minis showcased with a lovely paint job. Looking at the minis I do appreciate the effort that has gone into the dynamic poses, I do wonder of they could do what they are doing based on their design and how they are controlled from a fluff perspective. Having the walls crumbling under their tonnage would have been the way I would have gone but my opinion is only that and the force created is lovely to look at. If he is happy with it then that’s the only opinion that really matters until the wall gives him hard cover that is 😀
There’s a difference between streamlined and simple. To give some examples –
1) You roll to hit, then roll to wound, then your opponent rolls to save.
2) You roll to hit, then your opponent rolls to save.
3) You roll to hit, and then compare the result to a hit chart.
These progressively remove one set of dice rolls from combat, and hence streamline the system, but they are not simpler. The first one is obviously the Warhammer system, the middle one is used by Kings of War and God of Battles, and it is literally the same thing just with one less dice roll (the third is entirely unnecessary). The last example comes from Wrath of Kings, which was touched on by Justin, but whilst it is streamlined, it is not any less complex. In some ways it is more complex as there are several symbols which need to be learned, but it achieves a lot in one dice roll.
Then movement –
1) If a ranked up unit wishes to change the direction it moves, it must wheel and turn, sacrificing fractions of a its movement in the latter case.
2) A ranked up unit is allowed one free turn during its movement.
The former is Warhammer fantasy, the latter is Kings of War. God of Battles has an equally simple way of doing it though it’s done slightly differently. In each case the same or very similar end result is achieved, but KoW is much faster and more streamlined.
1) A unit which enters rough terrain halves its movement whilst it is in the rough terrain
2) A unit which enters rough terrain subracts 2″ from its movement
The first one here is Warmachine, the second is Guild Ball. The rule is not any simpler, but in application it serves to greatly streamline the game. Similarly, SAGA reduces a units’ movement to 4″ if it enters rough terrain at any point during its movement.
Another type of streamlining is in clarity of the rules. Take this example from Age of Sigmar –
“if your army won a major victory in its previous battle, roll a dice and look up the result on the triumph table”
Leaving aside the obvious trust issue this introduces, nowhere does it define what it means by “your army”. Is “your army” any army played by you, an army from the same faction that you won with in the previous battle, or the literal same army figure-for-figure that you used? To define that would add more to the rule and it wouldn’t make it any simpler, but because it removes any room for doubt the rules becomes streamlined. We both know exactly what is meant and can quickly and simply apply the rule without having to discuss it.
The point I’ve hopefully been able to make is that making rulesets streamlined is not to do with simplifying the rules, but in making the application of the rules in the game more streamlined. So it’s not to do with transferring rules from the book to the stat card, but in removing grey areas, unnecessary bloat, or fiddly applications 🙂
When Rogue Trader came out I remember people saying the combat system was out of date and in a sense ‘old school’ and need to be streamlined
Looking from the outside in and watching a few games at the club it seems the only way 40k adds new rules for new creatures/tanks etc is to add yet another save
40k for sometime seems to have been trying to get away from being a skirmish game Personally I would go to firepoints and units firing as a whole but I guess that would take away from the individuality that it gets to portray
It certainly seems in need of streamlining from the bottom up
Thanks for the breakdown, i do appreciate you taking the time I guess I should of used ‘streamline’ instead of the word ‘simple’ which you seem to have focussed in on. Any opinions on the question buddy?
I probably should have quoted this section in my reply –
“I would like to know what the games you mentioned as having a very good rule system are as I am interested to see if there are many that have the character cards with the rules on them as part of the game. Essentially if its the core rules in these games that is simple, due to a lot of the complicated rules not being in them but specified on character/unit cards.”
as it’s specifically what I was replying to 🙂
It is a problem for games that for them to remain viable, they need to keep selling product, but this is not necessarily what is best for the gameplay experience. The problem with the GW model (or the old GW model as it’s in the process of changing), is that once an army was released, that was usually it for a number of years. WFB had 15 armies by the time of 6th ed and some went through entire editions without receiving an update. High Elves were either the first or second army every released on this model (if they weren’t the first then it was Empire). Over the course of the next few years more armies got released, power creep happened, and the High Elves were hopeless. They had to have another army book released filled with units with special rules to try and make them competitive. Instead, if all amies had ongoing releases, then you could keep all of them up to date with the meta.
Minis games also can’t rotate out in the way card games can. People invest time and money into buying and painting their minis, so to tell people that in three or four years the unit is no longer tournament legal isn’t going to fly. You can build in a natural obsolescence by using games design to drive the meta forward. In this way, new releases change the game and require different units be used. What is current falls away as the new meta emerges, and it is even the case that old units no longer used come back into fashion as they are well suited to the current meta (or counter it). This way the game evolves rather than bloats as new product is released.
Personally, those are the two ways I would address this issue in the next edition of 40K. Constant releases for all factions, evolving game design that keeps the game fresh and naturally rotates what is used. Individually units will vary in power and fall in and out of fashion, but entire armies will not. They will always be competitive, and if I get it wrong for a given army, I don’t have to wait five years to fix it.
Thats cool. GW have dipped their toes in doing campaigns in decades gone by including large events at Warhammer World as well as others pitched nationally and internationally. With a rise through games like Frostgrave and a wealth of background both pre and post heresy maybe a step in this direction would be a good way to stop them needing to replace codexes on regular basis. It would allow them to stabilise the game and force mechanics while keeping people interested in making purchases and expanding the variety of their forces.
Yep, that would be another good way. It’s downside is that campaigns tend to only be played by a section of the overall playerbase. Many players either don’t have the time or the inclination to invest in a campaign. For those who do, though, it keeps the game fresh without bloating it.
Some great points. The other factor that is often overlooked is game pacing. GW’s habit of adding another dice roll step into already an already complex daisy chain really slows game pace.
The dramatic speed differences between Kings of War and Warhammer Fantasy 8th are largely due to reduced dice rolling. Not having players roll close combat attacks in each others turns and removing armour saves is huge.
This is not to suggest endless table reference is any quicker as anyone who played Deadzone version 1 with its constant looking up of doubling and tripling results will attest.
Set up time is another. As WFB used individual casualty removal, large units (with models that can be difficult to rank up), and large armies, setting up and packing away could take a lot of time. A friend of mine played an O&G into 8th ed and eventually gave up because of this.
Happy Sunday gunstig. Great episode. Loven Mennes Khador models. The paintwork is amazing. They have aan Anime feel to them. There you’ll allways see big mechs jumping and kicking.
Would really like to see some painting segments while he is in studio from Mennes. Some of those techniques under a close cam would prove very informative.
The Khador army is awesome. Very nice paint job, I wish I could paint like that.
Happy sunday folks!
Think you may have a misconception about Age of Sigmar Warren, although the rules are only 4 pages, you still have a page of special rules for every model in the Warhammer World where models and terrain can buff units. It is actually quite a complex game.
One thing I’d love to try for a less complex 40k is In The Emperor’s Name (In Her Majesty’s Name ported to the grimdark). Has anyone tried this?
Aaaaaand as I was typing above, Ben just plugged Snowpiercer. Possibly the worst film I’ve ever seen. You should check it out – it’s magnificent!
Snowpiercer is awesome! Totally weird and off the wall…very Korean haha
I use AP dip when I’m painting bendy 1/72 scale minis, as it works great for shading but also gives them some ridgedity to the model.
I’ve always had the idea of driving around in a tank or an APC during an apocalypse. You’re well protected, due to the armour plus it’s a track vehicle which means you can pretty much drive over anything.
I do the same although it’s a little thick for the finer detail of 1/72. I do thin it a bit for 1/72 or sometimes use it almost like a glaze
Happy Sunday people
More stuff to drool over I am not into the game but that Khador stuff is stunning…
I heard ride you and Sheng Long when Justin said it as well…
Happy Sunday!
I’m a huge fan of Game Mastered wargames. It’s far too seldom I get to play or game master such, because of the additional preparation required and difficulty of getting three (or more) people’s schedules to line up. But when I’ve gotten to either play or GM, these have been some of the most memorable games.
Game master allows so much more options for scenarios. He can set up surprising events like guys mentioned on the video or hand out additional orders or objectives to the players to simulate the “higher ups” in the chain of command. Having GM control some third, neutral or untrustworthy, faction can create really interesting scenarios. I’m thinking of beasts and monsters in games like Frostgrave, partisans in WW2 or in Dropzone Commander a small resistance band that may or may not be allied with UCM.
Especially in larger games and when you’re not sure of the game balance, game master can make the battle more interesting by allowing more reserves or use of some restricted asset. We’ve often done this in larger Napoleonic games so that you’ll only be allowed to send in the guard (or heavy cavalry or whatever) once the GM allows it.
Regarding strategy within tabletop games.
This is a really complex issue and frankly each game system dictates its own agenda with regard to this. To comment upon 40k, all the strategic choices are made during list construction. The random nature of scenarios and the relatively small size of the play area relative to the models mobility coupled with the heavy emphasis of ranged combat and 360 degree targeting of weapons and charges mean that model placement and positioning are far less important than optimizing target selection with your units during the course of the game.
Kings of war by contrast, like many blocked infantry ancient war style games, isnvery much won and lost in the movement phase. Classic battlefield concepts such refused flanks and penetration of the centre, matter so much more where all units have a really small and restricted movement relative to the size of the battlefield.
On GM’d games, I think players need to be clear about what their priority is for any given game (and it can change from game to game).
If you want a one-on-one, tournament style, ‘test yourself against your opponent’ type game, then you’re better off without a GM, and with having pretty unambiguous missions. Though they can still be different for each player.
If however your priority is narrative, and you treat wargames as having an RPG element to them, then having a GM is a great idea. And if this is what you’re going for, then being a GM is great fun too. If you enjoy being a GM in an RPG, or playing the Dungeon Master in Dungeon Saga / the Empire in Star Wars: Imperial Assault, etc., then you will enjoy GM’ing a wargame too – as long as the game has been designed with GM’ing in mind.
And by that, I don’t mean that a game has to be designed as one or the other, only that if you might want to play GM’d games, then it helps to put some thought into it. You don’t want the GM to be simply a rules adjudicator, perhaps introducing advantages to help struggling players if they’re doing badly. You want the GM to actually be telling a story in which you, the players / generals, are characters rather than simply players. The game may or may not be balanced, but that’s not the point. The point is for each of you to play in character, and for you to trust the GM to tell an interesting story. And for that, it helps if the GM has tools in the same way that they do for RPGs. This could be advice, tables to roll on, cards to pick from, etc. to design the setting, objectives, characters and NPCs who may be involved.
I think narrative games are excellent, and think GM’ing is a lot of fun. Especially when it inspires players to build/paint units specifically for custom scenario games.
Happy sunday everyone. Mennes’ Khador army looks incredible.
So chuffed to have made it into the show with my Cyrx model. I will have the rest of the crew done this week. Very proud of my golden button, thanks all.
The innuendos are strong with this episode, lol! 😀
Just downloaded reroll, going on a business trip this coming week so going to check it out.
Happy Sunday!
Game masters in game: not sure… But i’ve never played a wargame with that before or watch a game so, i don’t know how it goes… But maybe with good mechanics so players don’t feel railroaded or something?
@warzan : i like your “Rescue Team”!
That Khador army is awesome!
My favourite ever episode of XLBS 😉 . @warzan your praetorians are seriously bad-ass!
Happy Sunday!
DM’d wargames? good idea although more as someone to give a final decision on the more ambiguous situations and less as someone telling you how to play all the time.
The Proteus Guard look awesome @warzan would love to see them in action at some point.
Don’t know much about Warmachine myself, but OMG 0_o those look magnificent, really liking the “frozen in time” idea for the poses especially the SPLAT! moment (that poor Troll) and the Conquest going all King Kong which looks amazing.
Great show guys.
Ideally a referee would be coming up with a scenario and handling elements like hidden deployments or reinforcements which arrive mid-game. You really shouldn’t need one just to rule on grey areas. The rules shouldn’t have them to begin with.
I am always for a game master when possible. I think any game that can be enhanced by a narrative makes for a better, and more memorable experience. A story teller and referee in one seems to me to bring a game up.
On the subject of 40k, I like it being the giant it is. As I have said before though, when gaming 40k with my group, it was always a narrative and every fight meant something to the larger story. One off games are to cumbersome for me. A 40k game is more of an event, something special that you and your friends will be there for a long time and food breaks are needed. Hell, I would make it even more complicated as we have house ruled things along the lines of the old Necromunda charts so that our troops could grow as PC’s and survivors are even better in the next game. There are a ton of smaller, simpler games out there now if you just want a quicky. I like the huge aspect of 40k. As far as Killteam, that has always been there built into the game if you wanted as far back as I can remember. Just lower the point value of the game.
At one point in time, yes it was really the only game in town. Not so much any more. I do see where to a new player, 40k can seem overwhelming, and the company, I think, is playing it smart releasing all of these box sets of two player types that can introduce new players to the universe. But I would hate to see the over-simplification of this massive entity. I like the event feel to playing this monster.
I’m with you my friend! I love 40k as it is right now, there are just so many options and ways to explore the world. I’m having the most fun playing now since I left the hobby back at the end of 2nd edition. When I got back into the hobby at the end of 5th I almost got out again as for me it was so boring. The factions all seemed bland but luckily 6th came out and it brought a few of the things I missed from 2nd back. I won’t say some things couldn’t use a little streamlining and it needs some tweaks but please don’t destroy the whole thing and start over in the vein of AoS. I like AOS but imo its not for 40k. I like having multiple options on how to play and I think its the way to go.
I have played with a game master and its almost always a memorable experience. The way I enjoy playing most is campaigns with many dif levels of play and in campaigns game masters are pretty much a must.
Also one thing about the game getting a complete reboot, what about Horus Heresy? It uses 7th ed and if you change the game from the ground up that will make all those extremely expensive books worthless. That will destroy alot of the good will gw has gotten recently.
Wife and kids are out shopping. XLBS is on. Airbrush is hooked up. A fine Sunday Afternoon…
I know you guys are into 40K, however, if you want to simplification, I hope that you might want to review Battletech Alpha Strike with a few Lance Packs and forthcoming Car Wars 6E that will be in Kickstarter in November. BOTH games have made great streamlined simplification and both have (or will have in the case of Car Wars) companion rules to add additional flavor but the intent is more play and less rules.
Funnily enough, I would also like it if exclusively written content in reroll was highligted! I look at the site most days so really I am looking for stuff I have not yet seen…
Other thought inspired by hobby time, how about the BoW team take it in turns to write about their favourite games (stuff they are reasonably active in rather than something retro they just remember fondly)? Why does Justin like Warmachine, and what about Dust fascinates Lloyd so much?
If you read through Re-Roll and aren’t sure which bits are new content and which bits have been on the site, it probably means you’ve missed something on the site that might have interested you. If you the new content was highlighted, you may only read that and ignore what you missed 🙂
I am pro games master. At our a club we play a lot of big multi player games lead by a gm. A games master is there as a referee for the rules. A story teller for the narrative and an intermediary between the opposing forces. You can still take part in the game as a gm as well. Usually our games involve neutral forces/civilians and special events that our all controlled by the gm. Whenever I’m gm I always consider myself as player who doesn’t mind what team wins but my roll is to make the most fun it can be…
“Anytime you have the opportunity to make a cool product you should” my favorite quote from Warren
Not only does Tomas have some of the most amazing converted armies I’ve ever seen in my life, his paint jobs are absolutely stunning. Goddamn, his stuff’s inspiring!
WOW! Tomas, your Khador army is AWESOME. Nice work. I would hate to think how much time you invested in getting those poses, let alone the amazing paint jobs.
nice xlbs guys the war jacks are looking great. @warzan you can still have a tallyvan as a recon/diversionary unit to distract the walkers like when the walkers get out of the quarry.
I love the idea of having a games master in a miniature game. I think it allows for more asymmetric battles that still feel “fair”
I love the paint scheme on th Khador, but I think they would not work for me as playable miniatures as the bases are so scenic and specific that the jacks would look out of place on most tables.
Mr.Mennes stole the show! Wow, great Warmachine conversions! And the paint job is like a fine rug!
With regards to streamlining 40k and cutting it back, all i would want is for all the unit boxes to come with an equivalent of a sigmar war scroll, something that has all the stats, and all the special rules needed on that sheet, so that you dont need to flick through several books to read the rules, even if it was just done like that in the codexes, so you could just look at the unit entry for the weapons profiles and special rules etc, so that you dont end up, looking at the codex to see what special rules weapons a unit has, going to a different part of the codex to find what that weapon does, then going to the rulebook to find out all the special rules. Would make games go much faster if everything was just on one sheet in front of you. (and yes i could do this myself, and i have done, but it does take up a large amount of time and effort)
As for games masters, at my old club, games were “hosted” by one person, the host of the game would essentially be the games master. They would have the knowledge of the rules so that the players (who most of the time didnt know the game, or had played it before, but because we played so many different games at our club, it was impossible to keep track of all the rules) could play and enjoy themselves. Also the host would usually have written a narrative scenario which would also include balancing features, for example, if one player was getting beaten so badly,maybe because the game was balanced in the first place, and it was at the stage where the player was not enjoying the game, then the host would have pre-planned for this and included a reason why one player would get some reinforcements
So basically game masters can be a nice addition, as they can provide narrative scenarios for you to fight, and also act as a rules reference
Warren… A train ?? well it would have to be Steam for me, as fuel would be everywhere. You could pick up all kinds of things to burn and use as fuel. As the other two could easily run out and be hard to come by.
Mennes,.. I hate you, lol They are So Good, I know I could not do what you can. Its a pleasure to see your stuff, one word “BRILLIANT”.
Loved your mash up of the Legion you did and if i say it again your Khador looks even better, a brilliant idea. Puts us all to shame.
I am going to beach a ferry as my zombie-proof fortress. They can bang on the hull all they like and be swept away by the high tide 🙂
wish the GW mat had been the groundplan of an imperial precinct or eclesiastical courtyard
Jeez this Khador miniatures look purely awesome!
I’ve tried out the Microsoft Holo Lens and it is fantastic. In its current form, it could be used within gaming to a certain extent although not currently as a GM. For example, Holo Lens will recognise surfaces and allow you to drag and drop in vision sprites onto the surface. This creates the opportunity for true fog of war, something which no game without a GM can truly represent.
Holo Lens would also allow for marking objectives on the table top and displaying the rules, charts etc in vision. You could also animate the battle, putting in some lovely explosions, gunfire etc.
Cost is the obvious issue here with developer licences being very expensive as well as the cost of the head sets to the individual. But the other main challenge is the granularity of recognition and developing an in game GM AI that could add to the game from that perspective. That’s a few years away yet.
So for improving a game with narrative and throwing balanced curve balls, you can’t beat a GM but if they aren’t doing that, then the GM is just a referee and then only of real benefit if you happen to be playing someone who likes to push the rules.
@redvers for me Holo Lens could be massive in the future in miniature gaming, but I think it’s quite a few years off yet. It’s the sort of thing that needs to be down to around a $100 dollar price point.
Or more realistically $10
Price is very much the issue with the technology today, especially within the tabletop gaming industry. Developer licences are thousands of pounds and the head sets are beyond the reach of most people. So yes, from that perspective, this is still a few years off.
However, from what I experienced, the technology itself is already at a point that could contribute to table top gaming in a meaningful way. This is not Microsoft’s ‘vision of the future’, it is the future happening today. Just sadly at a cost point that is out of most of our reaches!
I LOVE LOVE LOVE the idea of having a games master! i wish he had that in games. the narrative is one of my favorite things about tabletop. explaining what that double 6 you just rolled actually does specifically to the enemy is amazing.
And look at this one aspect. for campaigns or thematic armies, weve al played games where the dice gods are against us, or we just have assembled a sad army list and were getting smashed. having a wild card that can end your pain quickly with some steamroller effect, or give you the one in a million shot to hep regain some dignity. just having someone who isnt concerned about who wins or looses but who has the most fun. he could be a ceasar or a blood thirsty god you must appease, he could be the special rules a fluff army is missing. (or can be the negative rules so many fluffy armies are missing)
Maybe its just me but i tend to get used as a games master at my local shop all the time and its aot of fun, the players are loving it. players are starved for narrative, theyre tired of just being the last one standing. i think its a great idea and will continue to play as such
Not sure as I see a third party who has direct effect on the game etc is the way to for me personally but more of a scenario setter . Tells the players their objectives, maybe rolls for reinforcements but just let’s the players get on with it in accordance with the ruled. If the scenario is done right the game should be enjoyable for both sides without some God like intervention
Great episode guys, amazing Khador army, i painted my khador starter on wites and needs to chipp out and rust it but donot did before, im checking now how to, surely with sponge and thin brush thecnique.
About all flesh must be eaten, i was lucky to get a rulebook few year a ago and master some time, first adventure takes place at a high school promotion dance! With undeads awaking on the morgue of that campus, was hilarious survivors looking for chemicals on the lab and locked up a mate that was anoying them all the evening, haha.
Wow Tomas’ stuff is amazing! I can’t wait to see his next series.