Universal System Beyond The Monolith Hits Kickstarter
January 14, 2020 by brennon
Monolith are now on Kickstarter allowing you to get stuck in and pick up their new Beyond The Monolith system. This is going to be a universal system which showcases their mechanics used across games like Conan and Batman, now developed to work as a mechanic for your skirmishes on the tabletop.
Check Out The Kickstarter Here
The Kickstarter focuses on providing you with the core box which contains all of the bits and bobs that you need to start playing games. They have also shifted the focus here to look at Conan as the first universe they are developing into different factions.
So, the Core System comes with the rulebook which contains all of the mechanics for playing the game plus the massive Command Boards which allow you to set up all of your troops and character. The Command Board also has a use in gameplay as the river mechanic is key to what makes the Monolith games unique. I think this is a fun idea to bring to life as part of a skirmish system and hopefully, with a few tweaks here and there, the mechanics will feel a little more intuitive.
Faction Boxes
So, once you've got that Core Box you can then also pick up some faction boxes which allow you to dive in and choose which side you're going to take when you jump into battle. We start off with the Pirates & Buccaneers set which shows you just how this works, offering up a bunch of characters, troops and boards for you to fight over.
I'm now just going to dive in and show off a whole bunch of the additional factions which are available right now, taking a lot of what was developed during the Conan Kickstarters and now available in a different format for you to use in this skirmish game.
I do think that the Wilderness box is rather cool indeed considering the range of creatures you get in the mix for it. That could certainly be the box for those who want to try their hand at all manner of different painting styles. If you like Conan however, you've also got the Mercenaries box.
Demons & Sorcerers will then throw a whole bunch of quirky and terrifying-looking beasts into the mix from a different plane of reality...
...and then you've also got the Armies Of Quilonia which offers up a band of soldiers and more from the world of Conan for you to tinker with, especially if you prefer the more martial element of the world.
As I mentioned above, this is simply the tip of the iceberg when it comes to what is on offer from Monolith for Beyond The Monolith. The Core System works across their various game ranges like Batman and Conan, so expect to see more Kickstarter projects like this in the future.
They have also got plans for it to expand to include the likes of Zombicide and Cthulhu Wars in an effort to make use of all of the different components that you might have picked up from your various Kickstarter projects. I do think the idea of one system for using all of those plastic miniatures is a good idea but the proof will be in the pudding as to whether or not they have managed to iron out the kinks in the system and make sure it flows nicely.
For those of you with Mythic Battles: Pantheon also on your shelves, the team have also got some of those models in the mix too so make sure to dive in and see what appeals to you. I will say, the Kickstarter page is rather confusing but I did work it all out once I dived into the comments to see what the community had been saying.
What do you make of their idea and have they executed it well?
"What do you make of their idea and have they executed it well?"
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For anyone who hasn’t backed Monolith before this is ideal, figures have great detail and their games are very playable.
But for anyone that has it’s a con
Robert Howard wrote sharp, evocative, violent tales…Conan, Kull, Solomon Kane. This is for me if for no other reason than my son loves the first Monolith Conan and the miniatures should add some character to my fantasy table. The grandsons love elves and dragons, what can I say? Indeed I am dragging the original box set a thousand miles to play a game with my son in a few weeks!
If you haven’t backed Conan before this is a good way to get in. The original game is available as an add on (and is also available on Amazon for £60) and you can also get into the vs mode.
If you have backed before and already own the game and any add-ons be prepared to buy a lot of stuff that you already own, especially if you want to play Beyond the Monolith rather than the original game
I believe they have said that there will be a miniature-less pledge in the Pledge Manager? Honestly, I may have misread perhaps but I think that was mentioned in the comments.
Speaking of which, check the FAQ to see what will be available in the pledge manager. Y’know, because telling them this information on the home page would only clarify things. 😛
I watched a live Q&A and they outright admitted they would not be providing a means for existing backers to uplift what they have. The only options being offered were:
Buy the full boxes and a load of miniatures you own
Buy just the rules and find some proxies
Don’t back (they even mentioned this as an option although they were diplomatic about it) .
So I think a lot of previous backers basically just said “fine, we won’t back”. As a result it has been cancelled.
The no-miniatures pledges don’t actually help because it leaves previous backers without the new miniatures and, in a lot of cases not quite enough of their existing miniatures. Using the Pirates faction as an example, anyone with a King Pledge who pledges for the miniature-less version of that faction would have 5 pirates where the game calls for 8. They would also not have any of the Ballista, Deep Demons or Pirate Archers. Alternatively if they pledge for the box with the miniatures in, they will actually own 55% of the box contents already. I deliberately chose pirates because its actually the best value for money of the 4 factions and contains the most new stuff. The other 3 boxes contain comparatively little by way of new content but still suffer from requiring more of existing models than the original game supplies. The most common theme is requiring units of 8 where the original game supplied 5.
They are pushing plastic like it’s going out of fashion…
My ‘loyalty’ discount is now apparantly nothing to do with loyalty and everything to do with the fact I have a load of the minis that they want to sell me again, so now the discount is for that.
Thoughtful discussion underway already in the forums:
https://www.beastsofwar.com/forums/topic/beyond-the-monolith-confusion/
project cancelled due to mass confusion. Honestly, A majority of the comments showed a lack simply not reading the FAQ or Updates other comments where legit in that many of the graphics were just plain wrong. A smaller more focused campaign is coming. Looks like they are at least going to listen to community of Conan fans.
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/806316071/beyond-the-monolith-core-system-conan-universe/posts/2731545?ref=activity
I like at least they take risks versus CMON that just produces plastic.
Saw that it was loosing funding yesterday and not surprised it was cancelled by the time I checked this morning. Nearly £600k is a lot of money to ask for.
A lot of people were upset about the recycled minis and the fact that they were spread out over several faction boxes.
And I believe the stretch goals were just a price reduction, not extra plastic, which is bound to upset some people… as plastic minis are a lot gamers equivalent to hard drugs.
If they’d released a box that allowed me to use the contents of Mythic Battles Pantheon without having to buy any minis I might have been interested.
From what could see, the majority of the confusion came from people who have backed Conan previously being unable to figure out what they needed to buy in order to play Beyond the Monolith without having to buy the full faction boxes that contain stuff that they have already bought. Monolith were very tight lipped on that subject because it turned out that they weren’t offering one. That confusion then turned to anger/disappointment as many people who backed previously simply walked away.
The announcement made today doesn’t feel like they have listened to the community. It looks as though they have just looked at who backed and what they backed for, which doesn’t actually take into account the views of people who didn’t back.
There were 800 Legacy pledges, more than the Leader, Batman and all in pledges combined. From that they are inferring that people are only interested in the adventure mode. However there were 905 1€ donation only pledges, many of whom were likely to be previous backers looking to just pick up a couple of new things via the pledge manager or people waiting to see if Monolith changed their mind and decided to offer a more reasonable option to upgrade the original Conan game to the Beyond the Monolith game, which is what people were asking for.
I really don’t think Monolith have listened or learned very much from this but we shall see what they bring to the table should they relaunch.
In terms of the stretch goals I was actually OK with the discount rather than more plastic. To me it sent a message that they had at least scoped the project out fully before launch and weren’t going to start adding new, unplanned items that would invalidate the original plan. My issue was that I backed pretty much all in on the original Conan game and there was no way in without buying it all again.
> Honestly, A majority of the comments showed a lack simply not reading the FAQ or Updates
Anyone else remember when the only thing you needed to do to play a game was read the rulebook?? :/
Its obvious what this KS was really all about.
Monolith needed a very quick easy product to fill a production hole. They needed something they could put minimal effort into, and maximize some retail profits in the long run. As far as I know they don’t have any real retailer products at this time.
The Ragnarok KS doesn’t start until spring/summer, and even then it will be a long term project. During which it would have been really nice to have something out in retail.
Which is why the heavy recycling of old sculpts, which is not a bad a thing in its own right. A vast majority of the potential market for a wargame like this never got to back the original kickstarter at all. So, for them it would be a win win. So pushing out a relatively quick project like this would be ideal for a boardgame company. And recycling vastily cuts down on the time.
The only real problem to me was adding in ANY of the Solo/campaign stuff at all. It should never have been a part of this kickstarter at all, they should just have tried to fund the game on its own with a revised funding goal and been done with it. It should just have been a new game, on its own… that just so happens to have Conan elements in it.
But they tried to be “loyal” to previous backers, and all it did was bite them in the ass. They wanted to bring past backers in, obviously to leverage their potential monetary benefit. However,that was a huge mistake. Kickstarter backers are a huge pain in the ass to deal with, trust me as I am one. So complicating things with past backers was just never going to work. The entitlement of some backers off the charts, and they usually don’t care about reasoning at all.
So yeah, probably doomed from the get go.
The problem is, Monolith are not big enough that they can push previous backers away, but that’s exactly what they did. In live Q&A people asked, repeatedly, whether they would produce an option that would allow people with a King Pledge to uplift what the miniatures that they already have to be compatible with BtM unit sizes and also include anything new that would be required. They outright said no and that they understood if people didn’t back because they weren’t happy with the level of miniatures duplication. So basically they outright told people who have supported them in the past to either buy their collections all over again or don’t back. It seems that is exactly what happened – myself included. That’s not me being entitled, that’s me exercising my right not to buy something that I don’t want (in this case because I already own most of it).
Monolith knew what they needed to do to draw in previous backers and they didn’t do it. Consequently they found out the hard way, just how reliant on previous backers they are.
As I said, the most likely needed to do this a cheaply as possible to maximize profits.
What your talking about would require and entire separate picking and packing line of workers… with different packages for different pledge levels. Also then there is add-ons, so again separate packages for every add-on.
Then you have to bring all of that together and package it up for shipment to each individual backer. That kind of customizable packaging is expensive.
You go from a KS requiring less the what ten packaging items(and all their combinations) for shipping… to one that now consists of what.. two dozen items with combinations matched to individual backers. You are talking a serious price increase.
I believe they needed this to be as cost effective as possible, which is what the discounts where for, which once again… NO ONE WAS PAYING FOR OLD MINIATURES IF THEY FILLED OUT THE FORM FOR DISCOUNT. Why cant people understand that.
No matter how much Kool Aid you drink, no matter how you dress it up, you are absolutely paying for duplicate miniatures. Having backed a lot of Kickstarters that were funding card based products (Battle Systems, Adventure Tiles from various companies etc) , the card only boxes seemed over priced. I also don’t think 10% discount was representative of value, it was a representation of cast; it was probably the factory cost of producing the miniatures rather than their share of the retail price. But it wasn’t just the miniatures, it was the gaming boards as well. They were nigh on identical to the originals but appeared to have been modified just enough that the original ones weren’t compatible with the BtM scenarios. Nothing about the kickstarter aligned with the goal of “breathing new life” into anything. Except perhaps Monolith’s Bank balance.
What they needed to do was approach this with the intention of “breathing new life” into the existing game right from the start. To do that they should have developed scenarios were compatible with the original game and its add ons/expansions in all aspects other than the new stat cards. That means unit sizes based on the numbers provided in the original kickstarter (units of 5, not 4 or 1 not 3). Exclude anything from the scenarios that they no longer own rights to or cannot produce any more and use the original boards as-is. Then base the kickstarter around the BtM rules, sell the original game plus any add ons they might need, including a full set of Conan BtM stat cards. To try and get extra funds, throw in a few new units as add-ons that will tempt previous backers to spend a bit more than just the basic BtM rules. This would not have required lots of different pledge types and picking streams. Everything would be compatible with what was already there. Users would not need to buy miniatures in different numbers, they would either require a unit (i.e. 5 miniatures) or not (0 miniatures).
Start with the existing backers, start with the audience you know you already have and focus on that. Then, work on a way of bringing in new players within that framework. Monolith did the opposite, they were working in a framework that was fantastic if you had never backed before but poor value for money if you had; the more Conan stuff you owned the worse value it represented. And by not making it compatible with existing players collections, to actually service that demand was simply not realistic. Monolith took a gamble by trying to target a new audience and ignoring an existing audience crying out to them. The gamble failed.
I haven’t backed any Conan nor Batman but a friend of mine was interested and ask me to check and follow the KS as he is interested in the adventure mode.
When I noticed all the comments of previous backers, I watched an interview from Tric Trac with monolith explaining their idea behind this BTM.
The idea is great of offering a core rules set and then having focused sets or upgrade sets to re-use minis people already have. But then seeing the KS, I don’t get the idea of not offering returning backers only the things they need to play this way. It is in contradiction to their own idea they were saying in that interview and I think this will have done them harm with some people.
> But then seeing the KS, I don’t get the idea of not offering returning backers only the things they need to play this way.
Part of the problem was that not all returning backers had the same product. Some retail purchasers had the core only. Some backers only had the King Pledge (core plus stretch goals). Some backers had the King Pledge plus various expansions.
The next problem, which wasn’t terribly clear, was that, even with all that stuff, you didn’t have enough miniatures to play Beyond the Monolith (!). This, despite how many other systems (eg. Song of Blade and Heroes), don’t have minimum miniature requirements. At the same time, Monolith both wasn’t sure they’d have a high enough print run to reprint, nor, as I understand a recent updates, the rights to reprint the sculpts (?). So the faction sets more cost-effective, especially since they didn’t have to create new molds for every miniature — but most backers don’t quite understand this, since retail (and many KS projects) don’t sell miniatures this way. Monolith did try to offset the duplicates by offering a discount to returning backers, but this wasn’t communicated well enough, and was also complicated.
> The idea is great of offering a core rules set and then having focused sets or upgrade sets to re-use minis people already have.
Besides trying to do too much in a KS (not to mention the interest only in Adventure Mode or getting only new miniatures), was that each miniature had to have its own tile (?). Again, most miniature-independent skirmish games (eg. Song of Blade and Heroes) only require you to have the miniatures. (Miniature games that use unit-based cards or tiles usually sell you the miniature with the card, such as HeroClix and FFG miniatures games.) So, yeah, you could use your own miniatures, but, no, you could only use miniatures that had a tile made for them. BTW, This and the minimum number of miniatures, and possible need for entirely new units, may be an issue for later IP’s.
If Monolith wants to be sneaky, er, creative, about it, they could offer an Adventure Mode KS that funded both the new miniatures Beyond the Monolith needs for play, as well as enough miniatures to play Beyond the Monolith. Miniatures would have to be packaged in a way for reprints to be possible (eg. combining the gameplay of the original expansion sets into larger sets).