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Weekender: AvP Unboxed & Win Kings Of War Prizes!
August 15, 2015 by warzan
The weekend kicks off in grand style with us sitting around and chatting with you about all things awesome in the gaming world from this week and more!
AvP: The Hunt Begins
We kick things off with a look at the Alien Vs Predator board game from Prodos where you'll be taking on the role of the honour-seeking Predators, deadly Aliens or grizzled Marines.
It's quite a jam packed box full of very nice looking miniatures and tiles to get you absorbed in the world of AvP.
Kings Of War
We've also had Rich in the studio from Mantic filming more for Kings of War so we thought we should ask him about what's coming next for the game including all those new faction lists for armies you might have sitting around.
We also have a competition where ONE person can win a £50 Kings Of War Army & Gamer Edition Rulebook and FOUR Runners-Up will get their hands on Gamer Edition Rulebooks.
Comment On Beasts Of War (Here), Youtube or Facebook To Be In With A Chance but it MUST be about Kings Of War or the following World War II segments to count!
What are your thoughts on Kings of War so far when testing out 2nd Edition?
Flockboxing!
FlockBoxes are also back in the studio from Warpainter and we show off their latest design and how it works. These really are nice pieces of kit worth taking a look at for more realistic basing.
Bolt Action Planes
Warlord Games have been playing around with some experimental rules too and have updated their test rules for using planes in your games of Bolt Action. You can find the full run down of the rules HERE.
Desert Warfare!
Last but not least on Monday we're going to be seeing another legendary series start from community member Oriskany where he takes us through the Desert War of World War II!
As always there's loads to look forward to from his incredibly detailed articles so keep an eye out for that!
Join Backstage For The Weekender XLBS Tomorrow
We hope that's given you enough to wrap your minds around for this weekend so go and have fun.
Happy Hobbying!
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FIRST!
Just to make up for last week.
Bad Charlotte! Lol.
You rebel!
I recently finished building a Dwarf army for my brother and a Vikings KoM army for myself. Now have some 300+ minis to paint before the Forces of the Abyss mega-army (and extras) from the Kickstarter arrives.
I’m new to wargaming but I’ve kind of gone all in on Kings of War. Still waiting to get a game in, but having ‘loaner’ armies available should make that a lot easier.
The Vikings and Dwarfs might match up well enough to face down the Abyssals.
If you want to go bigger
Your Viking army would also fit in with the new Varangur evil human army list, according to some of the posts over on the Mantic forums, so you’ve got a two-for-one army set up there.
I was unsure about getting into KoW because I didn’t want to start a new army, but when I spotted the Kingdoms of Men faction I realised that I could cobble together an army from my existing myriad of historical armies and war bands. So one of my tasks today is downloading all the KoW PDFs…
That’s the great thing about the Kingdoms of Men list/fluff. It’s so vague and diverse that ANYTHING goes 😀
Anything definatly goes with KoM in kings of war.I’m planning a Roman themed force based upon my live-action roleplay group from the Curious pastimes system. I wanted a force with a bit of history behind it. anyone else coming up with their own history and storys for thier armies whilst they wait for the book to arrive?
Aye, same here. And if I wanted to I bet I could cobble together several armies from all the Bones and other stuff I have from various kickstarters I’ve backed. Toot toot!
Yeah, that is definately awesome. Currently building core of my KoM force from mixture of Perry and Warlord 28mm historicals that I had lying around.
I liked the KoM lists as well as I had / have a bunch of GW Empire mini’s to repurpose. Most of what I have can “count as” something on the Kingdom of Man list.
I loved Prometheus, it’s the franchise going back to it’s roots and it retconned those awful AVP movies.
Prometheus was pretty good, but for me the Alien life cycle IS the version that was shown in the Alien Deleted scenes. Aliens and Prometheus take place in alternate universes.
I realized that Prometheus shouldn’t be take too seriously when I recognized the design of the space suits as a deliberate homage to pulp sci-fi “bubble helmet” suits.
Aliens and Prometheus take place in the same universe, the movie was never made to explain the origin of the xenomorphs and it doesn’t. It’s just the start of a new series that takes place in Aliens universe that explores the more lovecraftian themes of the franchise that were abandoned when Cameron directed Aliens.
Some Aliens fans make the mistake of comparing Prometheus to Aliens instead of judging it on it’s own merits.
Agree that Prometheus should be judged on its own merits and returns to the horror roots of the Aliens universe.
I don’t want things explained. It bugs me that modern storytelling, it seems to me, doesn’t leave enough for my imagination.
Just like TV, films treat their audiences like idiots, trying to play to what they perceive as the lowest common denominator. Lot of tools.
I hope the sequel happens and it goes further into the lovecraftian elements. If prometheus is “mountains of madness”, then I want “shadow out of time” next.
/shamelessly wants giger-polyps
Prometheus was a great comedy movie, worse expedition with some of the dumbest scientists in space.
Yeah. Prometheus looked absolutely beautiful, but the writing was a pile of turd. Utterly stupid characters and the ridiculous ‘Intelligent Design’ theory reskinned for the Aliens universe. If you know the basics of evolution and so understand why intelligent design as a theory is full of holes, you can’t help but be annoyed by Prometheus.
Prometheus wasn’t a great movie by any stretch, but at least it actually tried to do something interesting. I couldn’t believe it took decades after Alien (one of my favourite films of all time btw) for anyone to try to explore the questions, where did that alien ship come from, what was the Space Jockey and why was it full of dangerous xenomorphs? Instead we get a load of increasingly poor sequels which only ever asked the question, who can the xenomorphs kill today?
In short, Prometheus wasn’t a great film, but I prefer it to any of the sequels.
It’s underated. I liked it because it realised that HR Giger was actually capable of more than one design of monster, and it was nice to see a decent chunk of new ones. The one at the end was especially my sort of thing – very lovecraftian. Personally I’d rather see new creatures in his style than more xenomorphs because despite being a great design they have been ripped off a lot at this point.
i have no issue with it being in the alien /blade runner universe i have an issue with not running off at an angle and the alien at end feeling tacked on
happy christmas ……bet im the first for that 😉
Justin, you’re right and they’re both wrong. I admire your restraint in not giving them both a slap 😉
Happy Weekend!
Happy weekend all. I’m on holiday visiting the inlaws in the US, it’s 2.20 am but I couldn’t miss my weekender fix as Roy Castle sang “That’s dedication….”
Where did you guys get the wound markers that you’re using for KoW? I see that Litko makes some in red with 1 through 15, but was just asking about yours with the BoW logo on them.
I plan to put my ogres on bases cut from oak cabinet lick plates (approximately 1/16 x 4-1/2 x 96 inches). I haven’t decided what theme to use for the mini-dioramas, though.
I think Justin made some wound markers, with number dials to increment the wound count. Are those the ones you mean?
Well thanks for rubbing it in the faces of the backers. It’s been in shops for a month but backers still don’t have theirs and it’s going to be the end of September before we all have our copies.
Another kick in the teeth, Thanks for nothing Prodos.
It’s the weekend! Hobby Time…
I think Justin’s done a fine job with those AvP minis and the Army Painter tones; the hologram blip look works well with what is a board game with deluxe pieces.
With bucket fulls of minis on the way for a number of board games there just won’t enough hobby time otherwise.
At first I was a little unsure of the idea, but when I seen them I was in total agreement. It’s so simple and looks “right” on the board.
One thing that makes me wonder if maybe Justin has a point there, how the hell do you paint optic camo?
I too like the treatment Justin has given to the minis. I absolutely would not dry brush! Maybe pick a few spots out in lighter shades of the appropriate color, but NO dry brushing.
As for Kings of War, I’ve never attempted a Dwarf army before in any alternative system, but the Abyssal Dwarves may just do it for me, I don’t like shiny Dwarves (Gimli is the only exception).
Similarly with an undead army, this time I like the range of unit types and the variation that offers.
Back to the reality of war, I’m off to commemorate V-J day 70th.
For our US friends, In the UK and much of the Commonwealth we chose August 15 (the day the Japanese announced their surrender) whereas you chose Sept 2 (the date of final, formal surrender).
nice weekender guys the AVP looks great, I’m really excited by Kings of War, the vlogs for the two armies sound great, if you want some tiny rats I’ve got a ton from Skaven plastics if you want to decorate some of the bases.
The amount of armies that are coming is immense, and doesn’t just allow you to build using warhammer armies, but any fantasy or historical army. So far apart from dwarfs against Ratkin we’ve also played Imperial Roman against Ogres. The sheer versatility of the lists is fantastic. One blogger on the mantic forum made a basilean army using Rackhams pre-painted Griffon human faction and it looked stunning.
The new flockbox is a great improvement, I love my current one that I picked up after your unboxing, but the addition of the second plug to allow you to use a sieve is genius it lets you do scenery so much easily.
As for KOW… wait I said “First” meh fuck it it was worth it ^-^
Morning all,
i like the ink wash effect Justin has used but might have gone purple for the aliens.
Morning All.
Great show.
@warzan most of us that have got these minis have been using the Sulaco and Sulaco: hive bases from Fenris Games.
I just saw the contents of the new Dwarf mega army box due out soon. I am seriously tempted to pick it up. A new Abyssal Elf army in all plastic would be a must buy as well.
My local game store is supposed to start carrying KoW with the release of the new rule book so I am looking forward to finally being able to play.
Also most of the painting guides on the web for painting the AVP Aliens are putting gloss on the heads of the Aliens.
You can simply add in satin or gloss varnish into your paint to the that shiny look all over the model. Doing it that way keeps it a little subtle rather than just overtly gloss by putting a varnish on the finished paintwork.
For the flip effects that Warren talked about, hobby paint manufacturer Alclad makes them for airbrushing. They are solvent based paints though, rather than the acrylics we normally use, the major point in use with that is they really stink, and it is essential you use a mask with them.
Miniwargaming have a paint vid on Youtube using an iridescent medium over base paint. I’m not convinced it would work on 28mm scales mini’s though.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9O_vocGg57Y
It is my understanding(limited as it is) that solvent based and the attending cleaning chemicals paints are harder on the seals in an airbrush. Personally I gave up using anything but acrylics 20 years ago. The quality of them now is outstanding and I can do anything with them that I could do with Lacquers without the extreme health risk.
Just ordered the new flock box. I think we could now flock Justin’s head quite nicely. Looking forward to KoW vlogs. Great show
from mantic id like to see a forest / treeman style army …..for the chaos …..evil trees ….monsters that live in the forest …..trolls ……giants …..golems…….evil sprites …..lost human / cannibals ……riders on bears /bats…… evil scorcer / witch to lead them ….and something cute maybe a child with a teddy bear that transforms into a spawn of hell (2 model set ) and rules that transfom the terrain they move through to give bonuses to the army
For a thing I’d like to see in kings of war, I’m gonna say an amphibious army of Naga, frogmen, sharkmen and the like. Maybe with a pirate theme perhaps? These fishfolk swarming up beaches to raid small towns and sometimes coming on land in massive hordes to do battle with the armies of land, they could have massive leviathan like beasts and such, crawling around to smash into whatever they meet on land. Make these guys fast and close quarters dangerous, running (or slithering/crawling) up to the enemy with incredible speed to smash into their ranks and tear them up before darting away to find some cover.
This is a good idea. There are already several humanoid models out there but very few amphibian or lizardman.
Really looking forward to KoW arriving from the kickstarter. I haven’t played any fantasy for years and this has tempted me back in.
Having a hard time letting go of my whfb seeing as I have been in the hobby forever. Although I am happy to try my old skool empire army in AOS I fear the old armies will no longer fit the themes and imagery of gws new game. I must have had a premonition because before all that nonsense kicked off I dived in deep to the kow kickstarter and having finally got round to flicking through the rules I feel comfortable with them and am happy to be able to pretty much use my entire collection under a new system. My problem so far is not finding the fluff and background particularly thrilling. I am not a great reader anyway and trying enjoy a printed pdf on loose paper is no fun. Also being black and white I was getting no enjoyment from the pictures and photos. I expect that to change once I have a real book in hand. At the risk of being bed from the comp’ the reason I want to win even more kow stuff is so I can suck in a few extra mates and draw them away from their fb roots. Powderfan out.
I’m off to run a Relic Knights tournament. Enjoy your day everyone and I’ll see you at the XLBS.
Happy weekend. What’s wrong with Warren ,that was a waste of new game smell on opening of AvP .
Prometheus was awful.
Holding out for Dungeon Saga its going to be awesome. First kickstarter. First dungeon crawler. KOW diorama basing sounds cool but know little about the game itself. If it does link into DS I may start an army.
I went for the DS and KoW kick starters for that very reason. I’m using some of the KoW characters to give me even more baddies for my heroes to encounter. A bit like you I’m not sure of I want to jump onto KoW yet but the demo game that Justin did certainly illustrates how quick it is to learn and there’s no massive tome to go hunting through to seek out some bizarre table just to see what I need to role.
The KoW undead necromancer character has two different types of head which is a great sculpt, and the abyssal fiend is chuffing huge. To be honest I’m not sure how I’m going to fit him in my dungeon but hey I’ve got the DS dragon coming and that looks equally as big!
Goodmorning everyone 🙂
I would like to see a variation on the ‘shattered clans’ list, but rather than worshipping chaos, how about a Lovecraftian vibe? Giant aberrations and cthulu type monsters, cultists, warriors covered in charms and runes, that typ of thing
You can style a KoW army however you’d like, and use any model that you think fits in with the army list. As long as your opponent know what each unit is supposed to represent, you’re all good. Off the top of my head though there is no “worshipping chaos” as such, so there’s no reason why a Lovecraftian theme would not fit.
The new army lists that are being playtested are all subject to flux, so hop over to the Mantic forums and pitch any ideas that you have.
I would like to see an Asian-themed army in Kings of War. I know I can make a Kingdoms of Men force with Perry Miniatures samurai, but I mean a proper fantasy race with armor and equipment styled after feudal Japan or China. Kobolds maybe?
GW Skaven had some of that going, but not across the entire range.
I’m very interested to see what Mantic do when/if they get around to their men from the north army. As well as how the campaign will actually work.
Thx for you greatwork.
I’m on the edge of buying into Kings of War. However, first I’m gonna wait for my massive Dungeon Saga pledge. I have ordered some of the KOW minis during the KS campaign to be able to play the Dwarf Kings Hold scenarios. So before buying big into KOW I can have a look at the quality of the minis first.
And unfortunately I’m still waiting for my AVP KS to arrive…
One of the main points with Kings of War is that you don’t have to use mini’s from Mantic, so don’t let that hold you back from playing the game. 🙂
Rommel was the best general because he wasn’t a true nazi but still had an awesome uniform.
Looking at the KoW map there’s a nice pretty central sea, surely some scope for a seafaring/pirate style faction?
OF FISHMEN! (It appears we had a similar idea)
A good position for lake town or maybe some fantasy infused naval battle game would be awesome. I am still trying to decide if I should start with kings of War. Have the rule book but I just have to much other stuff to paint right now. But still maybe…. No no first finish the rest
Kings of War looks good, I’m temptet to try it out!
Interested to see what the WW2 articles come up with. I sometimes think we are too consumed with only one side of the second world war and would love to see more of the German perspective in there as well. The Africa campaign is a great area to do this as Rommel had a level of autonomy due to his location and reputation. Looking forward to it.
We definitely try to include a little of this perspective in the article series, @noyjatat . We also try to make the point that this was a relatively, *relatively* “clean” campaign. No civilians to get caught in the cross fire, no Waffen SS units deployed in the desert, a certain degree of “fair play” shown between the armies.
I know some players who are actually uncomfortable playing Germans in WW2, this might be the the theater for them.
Sounds great buddy looking forward to it. I am a big fan of this theatre as all sides were adapting and using non standard tactics to be effective.
Behind the front line of Rommel’s Afrikakorps, a special unit was created in July 1942 to to plan the murder of Jews in the region. It was led by SS Obersturmbannführer, or Lieutenant Colonel, Walther Rauff, an experienced mass murderer who helped develop the mobile gassing vehicles the Germans used to murder Jewish people in their campaign in eastern Europe and the Soviet Union.
Rauff and his men were empowered to “take executive measures against the civilian population”, Nazi jargon for robbery, murder and enslavement.
The Jews of Palestine were spared that fate. In October 1942 the Allies halted the German advance at the Egyptian town of El Alamein and thereby destroyed the myth of Rommel’s invincibility. The Desert Fox had to evacuate his beaten army to Tunisia, back where his African campaign began.
The SS had established a network of labor camps in Tunisia. More than 2,500 Tunisian Jews died in six months of German rule, and the regular army was also involved in executions. This information was actually published recently in a German Newspaper following research from German historians. I think Rommel as Field Marshall was responsible for these atrocities he can’t use the old excuse ‘I was only following orders’
Looking forward to your articles on this period of the war @oriskany
The British had to defend Eygpt to keep control of the Suez Canal to link to the rest of the Empire at the time.
Absolutely. 😀
I have a fully painted Warriors of Chaos army all packed away in storage, loads of chaos marauders, warriors and knights from ‘another game’ I’d love to see how these would play in KoW. As its painted it would be great to jump straight in.
KoW looks great fun. I love the dwarfs. Justins dwarfs look stunning with the static grass bases! Got to get those dwarfs and flockbuster now :s.
Perhaps I missed it when he was listing off the armies, but will there be a home for wood elves in KoW? Looking forward to checking out the new rulebook.
There’s an elf list, which has different factions of elves within it (and wood elves are one of them I think). The only problem is finding models that fit the unit descriptions, such as heavier armoured elves. If you can find models you are happy with, you can style your entire elf army as wood elves.
The Mantic elves have their own style, which doesn’t look much like wood elves. With an imaginative paint scheme they might fit.
GAHHH! They’re talking about history, must comment! But what if they where serious about extra contest entry? I might look desperate, graaahhHH! Screw it!
While part of their involvement in Africa was to help Italy, and it was a big part of their involvement, but they where also interested in getting to the oil of the middle east and blocking off the Suez canal for the British, which was the main reason that the British where so determined to keep Africa and Egypt, they couldn’t afford to lose the canal.
As for the German look at Patton, he definitely drew a lot of their attention, many of their strategies later in the war where focused on stopping Patton, and in one case during a interview a German general (I can’t remember who) called Patton the best commander for the Allies. During the preparation stages for the failed Operation Market Garden the Germans engaged Patton in a small tank battle, with the sole goal of stopping him, they where beaten despite superior numbers but Patton was forced to stop anyway due to the preparation for Market Garden, which made the Germans think they had succeded.
Incidentally Market Garden would be the evidence I provide for why Montgomery wasn’t the best general in WW2, after all it was his idea and it failed miserably, Montgomery wasn’t just cautious, he wasn’t all that good at making massive and fast offensives. His pushing back of Rommel in Africa was a very slow and steady affair, as was his advance in Europe he didn’t have that speed that Rommel and Patton and other WW2 generals had and frankly often needed for fighting.
I will hold my hands up here and say I forgot about the Suez Canal! Whoops.
What I would say about Montgomery is he lacked a realist sence of achievability. What he thought could be done and what could actually be done.
Wanting to capture a major city on D-day.
Pushing a British Army Corps and 3 Airborne divisions across the Rhine in 3 days across a single road with 4 river crossings.
Monty had no lack of a sence of theatrics, but his strength lay in his ability to concentrate his forces and use them to the best of his ability. Something he learned in the desert for sure. He was a mythodical planner and always executed his plans to the letter, which can also lead to the downfalls he experienced after he declared something particularly daring, which opened him up to more criticism than usual when it didn;t completely work.
Rommel was a fast General, his “ghost Division” in France in 39/40 was exceptionally well commanded.
However, when it comes to Rommels performance he was less than satisfactory. He was dogged to the point of being outright stubborn. And you’ll notice that all his victories are in the early war period, where his forces were facing badly organised and badly led enemy forces. Once the allies got it together he took a real hammering in Africa. In Normandy his ideas for defense were sound, but he hadn;t planned enough depth to his defence. Once the allies were ashore he was unable to utilise his forces due to having lost every aspect that made his early victories famous.
No air support, No experienced field commanders, Too much meddling from the high command, and arguably, a lack of conviction in that overall outcome of the war.
I have to concur on just about everything in your post, @lohnlyons . 🙂 But I can’t really reply in too much detail without giving away half the article series! Suffice it to say we’ll definitely be hitting and expanding on just about all the points you make.
I’d resisted AvP so far, but it looks a really, really good game. I may have to get one of those …
Good segment on KoW. My only criticism, which is usually the case with Mantic, is that mini’s never get shown off enough. Don’t be afraid to show off your minis Mantic!
I’m impressed with the way Dungeon Saga seems to be tied into KoW. IT gives me hope that the game I backed on KS last year will be fully supported for a long time rather than a one shot release.
It has also gradually pushed me towards looking into KoW. I never really played WHFB but I do have some units and I’m thinking of giving the KoW rules a try. The thought that my dungeon adventures can take place in the same world as the battles gives me goosebumps! Maybe they can go on missions in the dungeons to find artefacts that the armies can use on the battlefield! 😀
I’ve no doubt that Mantic intend to support Dungeon Saga for years to come. Not only do they see it as a gateway game to get people into the hobby, and into their miniatures (just like the original Heroquest), they clearly all have a passion for it as a concept. And remember, it takes over from Dwarf King’s Hold which itself ran for some years.
You can also compare it with Dreadball, which despite being a ‘stand alone’ game has been supported for years now. Not just with miniatures but with rules and background expansions, tournaments, website support and so on.
The AvP boxset looks really good, the minis are really good.
I can’t wait to get my hands on Kings of War, the games is so much fun.
I’m completly sold on the new floxk box.
Congrats guys, another very good show.
Would love to try KoW.
Will the stat’s be usable with my GW minis or do I have to buy new ones ?
Great show as normal
the idea is that the stats will work with the GW minis
Nice show
Sadly more audio lag though
From my limited reading and understanding, I’d love to learn more!:
Montgomery’s strategy involved lots of night-time fighting and exploiting mistakes.
Rommel was extremely good at small arm tactics.
Patton had the most experience with Tanks in the American Generals and was invaluable as a ‘psychological’ threat as he was well known to German command.
I think Justin’s AvP minis look just excellent. I don’t think drybrushing would make them look better at all.
Every time they do an unboxing on the weekend there are shades of channelling the spirits of qvc presenters. Good job no one is waiting to take my credit card number.
The ‘Western Desert Campaign’ was fought between June 1940 and November 1942. It involved, the Italian army, British & Commonwealth armies initially. Rommel entered the scene during March 1941, by then the allies had pretty much beaten the Italians in the desert! Rommel made the best of what he had and with it did well, pushing the allies back to the Egyptian frontier, except for the beleaguered garrison at Tobruk.
General O’Connor was captured in April 1941, General Auchinleck takes over allied command from General Wavell in June 1941, managing to push back Rommel to Gazala. Rommel counter attacks and takes Tobruk, pushing the allies back to the frontier during May 1942. Auchinleck manages to defeat the Italians by July 1942. Rommel calls off his offensives, being too weak in men and equipment. British attack in late July 1942, but unable to press home due to insufficient resources. August 1942, Auchinleck replaced by Montgomery, who manages to push Rommel back to Mareth. Americans with their inexperienced and young II Corps get their first ‘bloody nose’ when they encounter Rommel’s seasoned forces in Tunisia, at the battle of Kasserine Pass, February 1943! So really speaking, the US, other than equipment, took no part in the Western Desert Campaign, and ‘characters’ like Patton fresh with plenty of new US equipment, was then pitched against the tired, sick old fox, Rommel!
Please try and get a copy of, Tank Battles in Miniature, by the late and great Donald Featherstone. This book encapsulates the flavour, equipment, setting, key characters and events of the Western Desert Campaign from a wargamer’s perspective and should be ‘compulsory’ reading for anyone interested in this particular theatre of the second world war.
Enjoy your weekend, guys!
Go MANTIC GO
great weekender am getting into KOW with the other half .I have two arimies proxied from GW. Undead and twighlight kin, but she who must be obeyed wanted something different and themed!
So long story cut short have started on an oriental human army based on basic spear horde and bowmen troops and of course they hand basic guns so can use rules from dwarf list if she wants cavalry may be samurai or even mongals yet to be confirmed ….would love to see something from the west sneeking into mantic universe.The game lends itself to being so flexable in the army construction area a big thumbs up from both of us
Have a thing for dragons myself so would like to see some kind of drago like minis similar to the TSR dragonlance humanoids( if it does not infringe copyright) about ogre size maybe?
Kings of War seems to be shaping up well. One of my mates has been asking to give it a try and am liking the idea of it. is there a min amount of models in a unit block that are needed for it to count as said unit. what im getting at is can i chuck one goblin on a unit sized base and say that all the others took a invisibility potion cooked up by my gobo sorcerer
Yes, and no. 😀
The aim for unit fill on bases is stated at around 70% of the actual numbers, or at minimum a higher number of models than the next unit size down. So if your unit size is 40 troops, and the next size down is 20 troops you should be using at LEAST 21 troops to represent those 40 troops. With a 70% fill it would be at least 28 troops to represent 40 troops. If they are based well, perhaps with an impressive diorama theme, you’re much more likely to be forgiven a low figure count. 😉
You don’t really need to use any figures at all to play. You could run a game using appropriately sized cardboard sheets with the unit titles written on it if you wanted to.
Although not a huge fan of Monty,if you read about any of the British generals experiences in WW1 you can see why they were a lot more cautious with their troops
John mentions Goring. Yes a bit of an arse but he did win the Iron Cross first class and ended the war with 22 kills
But you see my point where none of the “big guys” were really experienced at playing the big game. They had either been frontline soldiers or… chicken farmers. 😛
I do John and agree with you. As for Rommel, yes he was liked by the Allies but like most l the other generals he supported Hitler as they still saw the German army as undefeated after WW1 and wanted to prove a point
Although not a Nazi party member as far as I know I don’t think he is the paragon of virtue that he seemed to made after his death.There is evidence of him using The Jews of Tripoli as mine dogs
I suppose in the end I would describe him as the best of a bad lot
Here in America its very fashionable to bash on Monty, an impulse I try to resist in these articles. I also agree a great deal that Rommel’s “virtue” is a **little** exaggerated through postwar revisionism (his “part” in the July 20 Plot is a good example, although this is what eventually kills him, of course).
Again, any in-depth responses I give here would just be repeated in the articles. When they start running please come over and comment, we’ll get stuck into this conversation!
I think Goring was in many ways the exception. Although clearly unsuited to leadership of a large organisation, and as well as being a pompous idiot (and someone happy to accept the awful Nazi ideology) he was actually a genuine war hero, and presumably had been a skilled pilot.
The Nazis certainly used him in the early days for his propaganda value as he was a ‘big name’ / celebrity endorser when the Nazis still looked like a bunch of thugs who would never actually get into power.
I have an Undead army, which is similar to @warzan idea expect I didn’t go down the diorama route. Basically the skeletons were primed white, given a green wash, they varnished gloss. For variation, I’ve washed some units purple and even an electric blue for a unit for Wraiths. My elite Revenants were primed black, given a white dry bush then washed purple. They turned out quite sinister I think. Unlike the BoW idea, my Werewolves, Ghouls and Zombies will be/are in a traditional way.
My basing is basically what Justin should have done. Army Painter Black Battlefield basing. My reasoning was for contrast with the greens and purples. Plus it is cheap and fast. It would have given Justin’s bases a bit of texture and shade variation but also given him the visual aid he wants to make the units stand out on the battlefield. Also far faster than using a flock box.
check out Reaper Bones for the dungeon rats
http://www.reapermini.com/OnlineStore/rats/sku-down/77016
Also the do giant rats, spider swarms & vermin spiders.
@warzan have a look here https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paddy_Mayne
Nice one! Yes, doing deep raids with the LRDG (Long Range Desert Group), origins of the SAS.
An LRDG mission / discussion is planned for one of the articles, you can believe that! 😀
@oriskany, I’m sorry to say it, but after all the discussion under this weekend video it looks like you’ll have nothing left to talk about. You’ll just have to cancel your series of articles 🙂
I know, right @angelicdespot ? On to the next project. It’s all good, though, the discussion is great. 😀
Great show this week guys!
I always think it is a bit revisionist to defend the Wehrmacht Generals and High Command. Yes they weren’t psychotic nazi murderers but they did seem more than willing to help the Nazis engulf the world in war! In my opinion they must have thought that Germany and Germans had the right to invade the rest of Europe.
They certainly had no major complaints about it all until it was really too late, too late being Operation Barbarossa in my opinion.
Sometimes a revisionist approach helps, but at the end of it all I believe that Hitler dragged Germany to it’s feet, which gave the Generals hope in relighting thier careers which made them submit to the wishes of the man who could give them exactly what they wanted… so long as they didn;t openly question it too much.
I think it’s fair to draw a distinction between many of Germany’s top officers who were real professionals and the leadership of the Nazi regime who were more ideological. The distinction was real (of course there are always exceptions, but you can point to lots of examples on both sides to support this argument).
However, while you can use this distinction to describe differences in methodology, strategy, willingness to colaborate with opponents / the victors etc. this does NOT mean that we should necessarily view the professionals with any more sympathy.
They may well have been motivated by a sense of career and traditional nationalism rather than Nazi fanatacism, but they were certainly willing to fully cooperate with the Nazi ideology, were happy to be associated with its victories and successes and so are fully implicated in its inhuman barbarism. They would all have known exactly what Nazism meant for the peoples living in territories occupied by their armies. Indeed, they would all have been well aware of what Nazism meant for Germans who’d been living under Nazi rule for some years before the start of the war.
Loved to see Mantic in the studio. We are doing a tournament here in Wellington this weekend, and a noticeable absence of Warhammer Fantasy. There is talk of introducing Kings Of War. The rules of which are simple enough whilst having some challenge.
Now I am very tempted by the dwarf army with their firepower. But the world is a great opportunity to explore something new that hasn’t been done so much in fantasy. Maybe I have been watching too much Marco Polo, but I would love to see a Mongol based army with plenty of horse mounted bowmen. After all they did a good job of conquering a huge amount of the world, that would make both Julius Caesar and Alexander the Great wrap.
I’m really in to where kings of war is going at the moment. I have convinced my wife to start playing a human army and am busily painting. But as far as a awsome new faction would be an army of wizards you could imagin units of apprentices and magical constructs…
Magic is purposely not a large part of KoW, so I can’t see how that would fit into the game.
However! There is nothing to stop anyone having a magic *theme” to an army, while using the basic army rules. For instance, using the Army of Men rules but having magical constructs instead of human models. In fact, thank you for that idea! 😀
bring out your orcs they are the best army to fight and win with
I’ve been thinking about doing a KoW Human army in a fantasy Spartan style. I think it would look great with some Greek mythical monsters in support.
I’m trying to persuade some others in my club to give KoW a try out.
I have around 200 Greeks/Spartans for that very same purpose, but I am struggling to find figures that would represent the heavier armoured units. The only thing I can come up with at the moment is to use them in an Empire of Dust army, and giving them an ethereal paint job, with the heavier troops being actual undead models.
I liked prometheus
really love the paint scheme you picked, simple yet effective and fits really well with the set, just paused the video to comment on it.
I am looking forward to the Kings of War segment next, that table looks real good 😀
For Kings of War I’m really glad they are doing lists for the Warhammer armies and ts really cool that they are going to work them into the fluff. While I do like Age of Sigmar for me its a different game and thats the way I’m treating it I’m not transferring my Fantasy Armies over I’m just going to Start new armies. So to get my ranked mass battle fix for now I’m going with Kings of war. I’l prob end up doing the same with King of War as I’m doing with AoS but its so nice at the beginning I’ll be able to use my Fantasy Miniatures. Now I haven’t picked a definite Kings of War Faction as I’m waiting to get the New BRB with all the fluff but I usually gravitate toward Human factions but MAntics Goblins look so cool and I like how their not always lumped in with orcs so It will prob be either them or a human faction but not the Angel ones. As I like the idea of just regular guys fighting of monsters beings out of nightmares. Anyway sorry for the ramble and thanks for the great show I def need to get AVP.
I started with an undead army for KOW but now im looking to go orks or might try and pick up a cheap chaos warriors army up from a disgruntled fantasy player and go evil humans
I have already ordered more rat men models in preparation for the KoW rule book. If one thing comes out of this is that there are ALOT of model companies out there and most make really fun looking and inventive models for almost anything you could think of
I’ll be using my Norscan army for KoW, used them in WFB (and still do) using a fan made list. Hopefully Mantic’s Varangur army will be close enough for me to modify to keep using them. Using Meirce miniatures, Gripping Beast and Hasslefree miniatures.
Huscarls, Hirdmen, Raiders, Giants, Werewolves, Huge Werewolves and Half Trolls, oh my!
Kings of War is grabbing my attention more and more, especially as i’m going to be playing a lot of Dungeon Saga when the whole Kit and Kaboodle fro mthe kickstarter turns up.
Might look into starting a small army
@phalanx58
You’ve pretty much nailed it.
Still undecided myself on who the best general in desert was.
By the time Monty came things weren’t all the great for the British and ‘Rommel’ was already a scare word. Yet he persevered and…won 🙂
However, Rommel did impressively well considering he was constantly outnumbered and U and low on resources. Personally ambitious and daring he was loved by propaganda and newsreel but was happily prepared to waste his troops to achieve his goals. Not all Afrikakorps soldiers loved him.
All this without Germany having any specific overall strategy concerning North Africs, they seemed to have been dragged into this Western Desert campaign mainly to bail out the pathetically performing Italians. Hitler only real concern was Russia. This was where the war was actually being fought..
As for KoW I would really like to see an Empire like human race as the Basileans don’t convince me at all. Extremely excited about Dungeon Saga tho and I am very muck looking forward to the weekender.
AvP seems like another must have. Justin’s paint job is a bit of a sacrileg but looks surprisingly good. Would be better with all black bases this time I dare say but he’s right, they’re his minis after all.
Splendid show as always and see you tomorrow 🙂
Completely agree about Germany being “dragged” unwillingly into North Africa (not to mention Greece and ultimately Crete) by Mussolini’s Mediterranean ambitions. Much like the US was dragged into French North Africa (and Sicily and ultimately Italy) by Churchill’s insistence.
We’re also trying to take a more objective look at the generals, setting aside the “glitter boys” and looking at the overlooked guys like Crüwell, O’Connor, Nehring, Auchinleck, von Thoma, etc. In many cases, THESE are they guys who deserve more credit for the victories won by the more famous figures they make movies about.
Spendid! Really looking forward to this!
Another good one, thanks guys! And well done for outmanouevering Justin into getting his models based! That’s the downside of gamer OCD right there!
Multibasing is definitelt the way to go with KoW. I have an Undead army that I had purposed for use with both WFB and KoW, so is all individual models and is such a pain to set up! Looks lovely but a real pain. I have had an Orc army sitting around on the sprue for 3 or 4 years now. The thought of doing diorama multibases has got my juices flowingand now I’m actually contemplating completing it ahead of some of my other projects whereas the thought of ranking up all those single bases had relegated the thing to the bottom of the list.
Also I’m liking your take on “simple but effective paint schemes for armies”. There is a whole different mindset involved in painting a good looking army, particularly a ranked-up/unit based one) which is different from painting individual models or even small skirmish forces. Its not just about speed painting (although efficiency is important), but its also about a different aesthetic (what looks good en masse – some of the grungier modern pallettes don’t look good – but GW’s “red period” was designed to make large units pop, for instance), and also the layout of the unit(s) to tell a story, rather than just being a bunch of identical looking army men.
Can’t wait to see how it pans out!
Cheers
Paul
Nice to see KOW are looking after gamers. Its been an ear opener to listen to what manic are rolling in to improve the game and bring in new players
Cool with the new series on the North African front
Love the Kings of War stuff, looking forward to see it grow
They where also looking at the Suez Channel
Since mantic seem to been keen on absorbing Warhammer, maybe they should look at doing the bits of the Old World GW failed to produce and create a Halfing army!
They are doing a halfing list that will come out with the others like the ratkin. 🙂
What a fantastic show this week. AVP is a big hit with the team at Bow and that clearly comes across from Warren, Lloyd, and Justin. I really liked Justin AVP miniatures, because it’s great to see an understanding boxing with the detail of the miniatures enhanced so much for the viewer. I like the paint scheme as it simple and effective; I am no painter and this just shows me that you don’t have to try to emulate legends like Angel ect, in fact I usually mess up a paint job because I’m overwelmed by what I want to do. I loved Prometeus, it carried on the Alien world, and filled a gap needing filling, roll on for more.
As for Mantic and Kings of War well done for allowing guys who have collected for 25 years plus to continue gaming the way they want, with what they have. The great thing a out the fantasy world is it doesn’t really belong to anyone. There is no sole individual who had the unique idea and imagination at a singular point in time to be able to say the own the rights to the fantasy realm. Are grand fathers and mothers, grand fathers and mothers had world’s peopled since time immemorial.
Kings of War Army……..it must be Elemental for me, built with Tree people, Fire sprites, ect and all kick ass conertations and protectors/followers of. Interesting to see what it would look like.
I absolutely love abyssal dwarves, and I wait for new releases!
My VC counts army is based around the idea of a druid that got turned into a vampire so it has a lot of dire wolves a terror ghiest and fell bats… so I really want rules in kings of war that these models can count as… but I don’t see it in the undead army
I think the nearest to dire wolves would be werewolves. You could use the dire wolf models to represent werewolf packs, rather than larger individual werewolves. I haven’t got access to my PDF of the V2 KoW rules, but I think there is a hero on undead dragon in the Undead army list for the terrorgheist. It could also be used as the skeletal dragon in the Empire of Dust list.
Prometheus, like so many franchise releases in the last few years, would have been a passable standalone film, but the forced link with Alien dragged it down – was more about the big reveal of space jockey and dispelling “mysteries” which tbh added nothing to the series. Like Alien 4 – sometimes a question is better left unanswered…
On the other hand, the question of whether I’ll ever do a non human faction in fantasy (I did do wood elves once) is probably gonna be answered – I’m erring towards some orcs/goblins at this point. Playing with the idea of barely evolved barbaric ice orcs. Like smaller yetis – lots of hair, bluish skin, bronze age tech. Something inspired by the mist warriors from the eaters of the dead/13th warrior.
Marvelous AVP miniatures, especialy aliens! And, well, mantic Go-Go-Go!
Was talking to my neighbour last week about WFB/AoS and what to do with our minis
(I have an almost finished Ogre Kingdoms army and he has an almost glued Tomb Kings army).
I really love it that we now can use them in Kings of War, which I think will be the path we will follow. I might be tempted to start an Twilight Kin or Undead army.
Right now I am working on getting a bunch of goblins painted and ready for bases. My wife has a “Brotherhood” army looking forward to the new list. So far she has been trouncing me, but but I am starting to get a handle on it.
Really excited to learn more about the world that Mantic has created!
In terms of KoW I’m really pleased to see the ‘unofficial’ ratkin list become available for download
http://manticblog.com/2015/08/07/kings-of-war-ratkin-now-available-for-free-download/
but what I’ve seen on at least a couple of forum are people confused about what GW mini = what list item, so perhaps an even more unofficial set of direct comparisons for all the GW units to help those that have trouble interpreting (or who have groups that don’t want them to interpret things in a sensible way, sadly)
On the Mantic forums there are some threads about what models could be used for each unit, which might help.
https://manticforum.com/forum/kings-of-war/kings-of-war-2-beta/230326-ratkin-model-suggestions
Bonus, if I do ice orcs, I can use that abyssal stone Beastie as a primordial Ice giant for KOW. I’m loving this idea the more I think about it.
Gives me an excuse to do some snow on the Frostgrave terrain I’ve been working on too. #genius
Finally some fantasy warfare that isn’t AoS! Mantic are on the money with KoW and the fact that they allow other figures into the game. If you already have the figures it’s easier to transition across.
AVP looks good too.
I went all-in in Dungeon Saga, and can’t wait for my BIG box to arrive in the next few weeks/couple of months. I regret not going just as big in the Kings of War kickstarter (only getting two Mega-Armies and one Starter Army, the Abyssals and Undead, and Forces of Nature respectively). After reading the rules, I’ve also started planning and Abyssal Dwarf and an Ogre Army as well (should have gotten those two as well, at the very least).
Hmm, what could one add to KoW that hasn’t already been discussed? I can’t remember seeing it, but I would like to see a race of bird-men. A neutral army with good ranged attacks, due to superior eyesight. They are also fragile (low defence) since they don’t wear much armour (would be hard to fly with) and having hollow bones. Different races of birds have different specialities. Eagles are your Leaders/Elite, ravens are your scouts, owls might be your wizards and/or your heavy hitters.
Oh, and AvP (hopefully) arriving soon as well. Where oh where am I going to find time for all of these wonderful games. Sleep is for the weak!
New army (old army) for Kings of War how about the Hordes of Chaos.
If new abyss trying to open in the successor kingdoms then it’s an ideal time
for the ‘Hordes of Chaos’ to spew forth into Mantica. There are lots of chaos models out there & with the Mantic community I am sure they can weave a story of Abyssal Chaos.
Just a thought
i think i would have to go with a dwarf army, probably with a decorative base though (sorry Justin)…
i would love to see some bigger monsters, probably neutral forces that could be then captured to be good or evil. e.g. trolls, giants and mammoths/elephants.
i’m current working on my ancients army list, you can find army lists for KoW rules and my cohort of romans works out to be 8000pts
2 questions: is it me or are the cards for AvP abit cheap looking/ abit of an after thought?
and why are the planes for bolt action 1:72 scale: is it it coz a 1:56th scale model would take too much of the table?
great show look forward to next week…
Happy weekend all, great show today guys. AVP wow looks fantastic but I already have many projects on the go at this point. Justin I like the approach of your ink scheme for this game gets some colour down quick. Couple of thoughts ideas with the inks are one I actually liked the fact that some of the white was still showing through as it gave some natural looking highlights, looked particularly good on the aliens and preds. Secondly did you think about using a preshading techniques with the rattle cans and then using the inks as a wash/glaze to tie it all together.
KoW I’ve been looking at this system for some time now and have a high elf army thats been sitting in the cupboard for a while now. I tried WHFB but didn’t like taking lots of minis off the bases each game so multibasing I’m all in. Plus from the vids I watched KoW looks like a quick system to get into so think ill have to start coming up with some basing ideas. Simple quick paint schemes sound good to me also not enough time to do/make/play all the wonderful hobby goodness that is available to us gamers these days.
Finally the new article series on the desert campaigns has got me fired up, looking forward to reading those next week, myself and my gaming buddies are just looking to do some mid war themed battles using the flames of war rules so yes shall be an interesting read for me.
Right off to do all the other stuff so Sunday games day is all clear, starting with morning coffee and the xlbs weekender. Just got an airbrush so will be interested to hear about that and what everyone has been upto hobby time wise. Till next time folks happy hobbying 🙂
KoW has always intrigued me & having had a look through I’ve fallen for the Ogres – now to figure out how to do an easy yet funky looking diaromic basing (I’m very open to suggestions) for when I eventually get my hands on some of them
For Kings of War I’d like to see something unusual: an Insectoid army or a Yetti/Wendigo themed army, or a full mechanical steampunk army! And the Ice Viking army promised by Ronnie of course! 🙂
Wow that AvP game looks dope, I’d probably play it through my mate’s zone mortalis table though.
I’m a big fan of the desert theater in WWII, I have Early War Aussies, and Mid War British for Flames, and I have Mid War Aussies for Bolt Action. I’m waiting for the Warlord desert book to drop, but until then I’ll have to check out Oriskany’s stuff.
I need to check to see if any one here in Australia are getting Flockboxes in, it’s Army Painter so War and Peace might. Kings of War has interested me a little, I have a large High Elf army that I love.
Are you going to show the hour long vid of trying to clean up the static grass that gizzmo made? 🙂 I just use a Noch grass applicator bottle for £5 for stand up grass myself.
I really would like an army with humans knights something very different from basilian stuff. Something darker, grim and mad. Gothic and decadent. Something more like the medieval compagnies during the hundred war. Vilains with steel and love for rampage.
Good day everyone,
the AvP game looks amazing. @dignity gets so red when he is serious. 🙂 I like the way you have painted your Aliens Justin. Nice and simple thou I would give them a delicate drybrush.
Uuuu a new series by @oriskany cool! 🙂
Hope you like it, @yavasa !
I’d love to see Mantic make their own Kings of War Terrain. I really like the Battlezone kits.
I think Kings of War have covered all the bases for army choices. Personally I’d like to see them revisit their old armies and update some of the sculpts. The dwarf cannon I’d like to see beefed up in looks.
I’m also looking forward to reading about the SAS in the desert, good one @oriskany
Anyone have an idea or link about making a static grass gizmo out of wired and batteries? Being a science teacher I know about electric circuits, but also know enough not to mess with unknown electricity.
id like to see a samurai army but with heavy units of oni and kitsune infiltrators there’s seemingly hundreds of spirit creatures to choose from .
whenever i hear about AVP the hunt begins i think its for a hunt for a kickstarter backer that got their stuff.
I can’t wait to see an army list for Kings of War do I can use my Warriors of Chaos models.
If you want rats for dungeon dioramas Justin, Reaper Bones’ Giant Rats are a solid choice. As for what I’d want to see next in KoW, the latest beta lists are creating so much flavour and choice, I’m not sure what to ask for. Maybe a different style of elite infantry for Elves (apart from palace guard), and maybe some light cav.
On the AVP could you use the gloss varnish as a highlight almost drybrush style onto the mini?
@dekinrie I love the idea of a samurai army, one of the guys I used to play against had a vampire count samurai army, zombie and skeleton ashigaru, much of it scratch built, looked awesome too.
Don’t Rise of the Kuge or whatever it’s called do a range of minis?
Good and real funny show again boys, i am loving it !!!
Mantic I’d love to see my current GW armys (over 1400 minis, 5 armys) have kings of war rules, Not to diss out at GW, but MASSIVE FANTASY ARMYS i like to play, The like what you see at “lord of the rings battle at minas tirith” BIG BIG blocks of troops.
I like to play a General of a Grand Army, not a captian of skirmisch group. Play games that can take a day.
For the first time in 18 years collecting and playing , and after playtesting KoW2 and AOS at my local gameclub, i am heavely considering switching gamesystems.
So the only army i am missing is a more 13th Century style Knight force, Going Medieval Style. lots of horses, footlevies, robin hood bowmen.
Kings of War, the next Warhammer Battle ? Did someone try Kings of War and Warhammer Battle ? Are they similar ?
Thank for the Weekender video 🙂
Hi folks.
GREAT SHOW.
Here is the history I learned about the desert war in WWII.(It may be a bit out please correct me if I am wrong.)
General Wavell commanded the common wealth forces in the western dessert to great effect against the Italian forces.
However, the superior equipment the Afrika Korps brought to re claim North Africa, totally out classed the British equipment in terms of tanks and vehicles .
(Even though the troop quality was similar.)
General Wavell was replaced by General Auchinleck in about August 1941.
I got the impression Auchinleck had the right ideas on how to conduct a successful campaign against Rommel, But never had the numbers or equipment to get the job done.He only really had enough resources to defend effectively and hope Rommel over extended his supply lines
My opinion is that if Auckinleck was given time and more importantly the better equipment and larger numbers that Montgomery had in 1942 , he would have succeeded in a similar way to Montgomery.
By the time Montgomery launched his first assault, the Eight Army had Crusader II tanks , and lend lease Grants and Stuarts.(The supply of hundreds of tanks and spares from America allowed a massive build up of forces to ”smash Rommel back into the sea!”)
If Montgomery only had the limited numbers of A13 and Matilda tanks that previous generals had .I am not sure he would have won so many battles in the desert.
Montgomery and Patton were complete opposites in the way they waged war.
Patton was aggressive and some times over reached.
Montgomery was cautious , and some times too slow to respond when opportunities arose.
Both had massive egos and disliked each other …
Can I please win the K.O.W. goodies now?
Nice “Desert War 101” @lanrak ! 🙂
Going to look forward to this article series by Oriskany. The war in the desert has always been my favourite part of the 2nd World War as a subject mainly due to the iconic generals and the fact my grandparents were Maltese citizens living in Tripoli during the Italian rule, this is what originally sparked my interest hearing the stories and experiences they had during the outbreak of the war and how they were treated by the Italians. One of the most memorable stories I was told was by my grandmother who explained how the atmosphere completely changed once the D.A.K arrived and due to living close to the ports she witnessed first hand the Tanks being unloaded and being sent to the front going right by their house.
Another thing is… I agree with John, Montgomery I personally believe was the superior general of the three and I also really loved his personality, but this is probably due to the fact that My grandparents had 3 autobiographies of Monty and nothing of the other 2 :P, so that might be reason for my bias ;).
Thanks for mentioning Malta, @kavallier – which has gott o be one of the most important yet little-known or misunderstood factors, not only in the Desert War, but the Mediterranean Theatre in general.
I also agree that while Montgomery had his flaws, AMONG THOSE THREE – he stands above.
1 – My issues with Patton have been well-documented on this site, I won’t bore everyone with repeating it. For the record, I don’t think he was BAD by any means, he truly was a GOOD general. I just think he’s a little over-remembered, which wouldn’t bother me if it didn’t come at the expense of generals who deserve more credit.
2 – Rommel was probably the superior battlefield tactician. But he was also insubordinate (he got away with it in France but not in Africa) and his career was so great and he was promoted so fast that he perhaps never had a chance to “grow out” of that tactical mindset into a more operational view of larger-scale campaigns. As an operational commander he was actually quite poor, or at least not spectacular.
3 – Monty, well . . . lemme shut up because I have to save something for the articles! 😀
In the meantime, AvP backers are crying all over the world because verybody but them can play an AvP game this week end…
Well done chaps are great weekender.
AVP has just been purchased from Wayland games, the Mrs has removed BoW from the Christmas card list.
I’m really getting excited about kow, I have never played warhammer fantasy so it will be a new venture for me. I am torn between the versatility of single basing and regiment basing?
Single basing will allow me to play a skirmish game from another set of rules but I really like the idea of creating a scenic base? Will we see expansions for siege warfare?
Justin base your minis for gods sake and John is spot on again with the historical references.
Montgomery was fighting first rate troops for most of his campaigns, Patton did not have the same challenges. He was however very aggressive. I would be interested in what if game of allies vs Soviets?
As a back of AvP glad to see what is coming though somewhat annoyed that I have not received mine yet 🙁
KoW – planning to use this for Middle-earth wargaming on the grand scale as I have a tone of LotR minis (almost none from The Hobbit as GW priced them beyond my willingness to pay)
Generals: anyone who tries to say X was better than Y or Z should be locked in the cooler for 30 days for sheer stupidity. You cannot compare one with the others because none of them were within the same chain of command, logistics and none of them were working toward the same objectives. All of them had faults, all of them had strengths. All I am going to say is that the Allies tried on multiple occasions to kill Rommel as they recognised his ability to cause trouble way beyond what the ToE of his forces suggested.
I would agree that “top 5” lists and constructs like that are a little simplistic, but it gets the conversation going and creates a framework in which the generals can be compared. Granted, you might need a slew of categories such as most overrated, best tactical battlefield commander, best operational commander, best with logistics, best with tanks, best with battlefield engineering, etc etc etc . . .
Hope you like the article series!
I am sorry to hear that Prodos have still not sort out their kickstarter backers, it’s a very poor show.
I’ve not been convinced by big fantasy battles with large units moving in a block, but I have seen a KoW game being played and it looked quite quick and fun. Also as it can use dioramas for the units it helps to get around the barrier of painting so many models.
Justin i like the idea of the black bases. Makes the unit look almost like a giant shadow under the unit.
I will chime in once more with the support for black bases, at least on Infantry. Oh, and @dignity – I really do like those AVP miniatures! I think the monochromatic approach you took actually gave them a very iconic feel, like you’re looking at signals on a holoview or something. Plus, it’s important in games to be able to tell the pieces apart! I like the distinctive colors, I guess is what I’m saying.
It’s absolutely gutting to see all the AvP stuff floating about the web considering I’m still waiting on my Kickstarter copy. While I understand the situation, and I’m not particularly angry at Prodos about the whole thing, it is disheartening 🙁
On the positive side though, that’s mainly down to how fantastic the game looks. Hopefully my copy will arrive soon. I look forward to the day when the game is properly “out” and we have access to the whole range and people can put this whole shipping situation behind them. More importantly, I look forward to amassing a metric shit tonne of Predator minis… 😉
Kings of War has piqued my interest too. I passed on the Kikcstarter but with the recent Age of Sigmar hullabaloo I’ve been keeping a closer eye on it lately. I’ll probably pick up the rulebook as a bare minimum, just out of curiousity, but I imagine it’ll join the list of “games i theoretically play” before long! I love the unit footprint method allowing all sorts of modelling potential!
I feel like Mantic has a real opportunity to do something new now – previously they were scavenging players from another game and it made sense to flesh out some otherwise ignored armies while providing a little new; but now I feel they can just explore mantica.
I’d like to see something we’ve never seen but that would be interesting to paint- maybe a human army that controls giant insects – beetle cavalry, dragon fly aerial units, carapaced heavy infantry. Or maybe a new race entirely – like a 20ft tall race of slender, pale creatures who use a mix of tribal formations and weapons but also some mysteriously high-powered weapons… Like the Martians from John Carter.
Oh, and giants; give us Giants!
I’m looking forward to reading the Desert War articles that are planned, especially as I served with 4 Brigade (Desert Rats) in the Gulf War.
What I would really like to see in KoW would be an aquatic race of creatures like say fishmen or mer people. They could have interesting deployment rules via lakes, pools etc and bring in all kinds of weird and wonderful creatures like lobster cavalry, electric elld, giant squids etc.
I meant *eels
There has been talk of Kings of War going historical (yippee) but how far. I’m hoping this could go as far as the English Civil War / 30 Year war and further. so would a unit of pike and shot work the same as the Elf sea guard who’s base would not look right or would you combine 3bases ie unit, reg, unit to represent the troops on the table. Or give up and just look at Romans and Celts! “sigh”.
I managed to get a game of 2nd ed KOW in earlier in the week and the tweeks that have been done have enhanved the game no end, nice and fast and 2 people who had no idea how it worked had it sussed by turn 2 and were going for it, I’m about to finish up my second army for KOW in the form of a KOM arab themed force so when thats sorted I’ll blast some picks up in the hub, as for painting aliens I did the aliens for the AVP salute board this way…
http://toomuchmetal.blogspot.co.uk/2015/05/post-salute-recovery-how-to-paint.html
dead easy and you’ll fly through them no worries, for bases have you looked at fenris they have some superb ones
I’m not sure if someone left comment about your box you received @warren but your copy is kickstarter copy It is not the same to what you buy in the store, store box is smaller by 3cm, has one less tile sheet, no templates, and missing kickstarters extras. its a bit weird that they send you copy for unboxing with out information that you can not buy it in the store, store box is different.
here is link to Jim from prodos about box content https://www.facebook.com/groups/829340957162333/1010422439054183/?notif_t=group_activity
and full message –
This is Rumor Control and these are the Facts for August 14, 2015:
It been a bit of a quiet time here at Prodos Due to the holiday period we are at the end of, we will be steaming ahead at full strength next week.
1. There will be a new Retail version of the board game, so the Kickstarter version will become more exclusive again. The backers received the game via the Kickstarter with a huge discount, meaning that there was a small gap between the production cost and money received (profit on the game box), however, between 2013 when we initially have did the calculation and the time 2015 rolled up the manufacturing cost went up by almost 30%, meaning that we as Prodos have taken the cost on the chin, after all, the delays caused with approval and so on are not backers problem but instead are ours.
Now we have been told that the material cost is going up again, by 15%. We along with the manufacturer have come to consensus that we will release 2 versions of the game; the Kickstarter that you will receive and the retail that shops will begin receiving; the retail will be different from the Kickstarter version you will be getting, the box weights less by over 1KG (different materials used) and will be smaller by 3cm (with a new layout). There will also be a reduction in the number of tiles (a few corridors will be removed plus flamer and blast template is also game- since they are not used in the core board game at all).
This will allow us to make a retail version and KS as a 2 different versions of the games as initially promised, thus, you the backer will keep the value vs money and quality that you paid in 2013.
2. We are happy to announce that the Spanish version of the AvP:THB rules PDF is available to download on our website in the Download section. The French and German versions should be available next week.
If you would like to receive your game in different language than English we will make it an option in the pledge manager next week, as long as your game was not shipped already, we will get you the language of your choice sent to you.
3. Shipping and Wave 1 completion, we are doing our best to get all Wave 1 boxes shipped by the end of August, however this may slip until the middle of September. We understand this will be upsetting too many and are sorry that it is the case, but we want to be as honest as we can here. All North American backers will be sent by the end of August via our US partners Ninja Division.
Please bear with us a little while longer, we are shipping, it is steady going but a bit slow. Know that your rewards are coming, it’s just taking longer than we initially expected and for that we are truly sorry.
You the Kickstarter backers are very important to us and we are not happy that many of you are upset, we really wish it could be different, honestly. We wish you all had your board game boxes already and we were well on to Wave 2.
Cheers,
Prodos Games LTD
yeah their still using the kickstarter version in the shops as the new retail version hasn’t been produced yet as the minimum print run was 5000 copies 2800 to cover the backers and the rest to retail though retail must have blown through their allotment some time ago
Great weekender hope you do a demo game of AVP, I like what Justin has done with the mini’s though I am fully painting them my self and am using some nice secenic bases from fenris games, hoping to finish of the Predators today then just the Marines to go
Soooo the boxes we can find in stores now is the KS version, and the boxes we will soon find in shops will be a lighter version ?
yup
“Deity worshipping humans”, very, very nice 😉
I Also would like to see a more woodelf like Elven army, or more natural based units for the existing one.
will there be a siege supplement for KoW ?
I hope Mantic bring out rules for some of the Legion of Azgorh (FWs Chaos Dwarfs) like the K’daii and artillery trains. I know they have some warmachines but they have nothing for skullcrackers, Iron demons, and magma cannons.
Maybe an expansion down the line that ads huge monsters and heavy war machines?
KoW hype had me dig out my old warhammer collections from their dusty consignment to boxes (empire, chaos, dark elves, and dwarfs). I should probably admit I became a bit of a GW conscientious objector a good few years back. I’ll be getting shot of the large empire range as I’m in the process of getting together a Wargames Factory Samurai army for Kingdoms of Men. The kingdoms of men lists cover a Samurai/Ashigaru list pretty well (2000 pts well
Huh, rest of my post got lost in the warp…. Anywho, as I was saying, I know more historical based lists are forthcoming so I’m hoping for a Samurai type list with some more fantastical elements e.g. Stone dogs (maybe more Chinese?)…. So… Um… Godzilla?
Waiting for the Abyssals coming out for KOW, in the mean time I shall dig out my Orc army which has never won a battle in 20 years no matter who was the general or what rules were used.
You have to be so unlucky!!!
Loving the look of Kings of War, would like to see the development a 28mm ship to ship warfare for fantasy.
Kings of War looking awesome, with some interesting minis too. Personaly I’d love to see some draconians army, but I’m very happy with the undeads so far 🙂
As a short, chunky (OK fat), hairy bloke it has to be Dwarves but I would like to bring in the old death roller from Bloodbowl!. Great show but bad for my bank account, I’ve just had to buy the new Flock Box. Looking forward to Oriskany’s new series.
I’m not familiar with the death roller from Blood Bowl, but might the rules for the Goblin Mincer work? With a few dwarven tweaks of course 😉
justin should have a segment called confessions of a lazy arsed gamer, lol
@radegast6: i don’t see how Warren could have been informed that this box was not the retail box, since the Facebook message from JimProdos is dated on 14th of August, and since shops actually have the KS version for sales right now everywhere. So this “new retail version not like KS version” is a very new thing.
So Prodos sends boxes to big websites like BoW and does not know which ? Amazing oO
Eagerly awaiting my Kings of War haul from the Kickstarter. I really enjoy the game.
Being so new, Mantic doesn’t yet have the depth and breadth of fiction and lore as WHFB. I don’t have a good feel for what an orc or elf in that setting sound like, or act like, or what their specific motivations are. Novels/movies and video games would be great to see from Mantic..can you ask if there are any in the works?
I don’t think you need all that much lore for the most part. I mean many of the armies are just cliche Tolkien races. I am sure so long as you stay within the lines of how those races are portrayed in: Lord of the Rings books and moves, almost any D&D setting, World of Warcraft, or any of the thousands of derivative works, I’m sure you will be fine and accurate to how these races are in Mantica. Orcs are brutish and want to fight and elves are refined and aloof just like they are in every generic fantasy setting (except the ones that are trying to be contrary). You are free to fill in the details for you own army/kingdoms specific motivations. I think you should look as the direct lack of decades lore to this setting as an opportunity to create your own background for your own army as to why they fight.
I can’t see Mantic putting out much in the way of novels (maybe short stories), and even less in the way of video games. They are not as big of a company as many people make them out to be. And if any genre could do with less material in books and games it’s generic fantasy (and maybe zombies).
This is what I would love to see in Kings of War perhaps a little biased because I’m parachuting a number of armies into the game that no longer really fit in with Age of Sigmar.
I always had an idea to build an Empire Army but theme it around Estalian Conquistadors. So I had been buying 3rd party Spanish Morion heads, I had some ideas for mounting generals on Great Taurus models to give the army a Spanish feel etc. Obviously that isn’t going to happen for Warhammer now lol.
But I’ve been reading some of the Mantic background, looking at the map and I’ve noticed that the Map is very much another Faux-Europe design and there’s a city in what passes for the Iberian Peninsula called Valentica that is described very much as a city on the up where science and culture is flourishing. I would love to see a Conquistor themed Human army because not only do I think they are cool but a seafaring explorer faction could potentially unlock new parts of the world and new continents in the future. Even if they don’t end up being armies in Kings of War, Dungeon Saga adventures in Meso-american style Ruins could be really great fun!
Another type of army I would like see though, and this one really isn’t copying anything GW ever did, would be an Arabian style army. Doesn’t matter what race, although Human or Elf might be good fits. War elephants, Flying Carpet cavalry, Scimitar armed Dervishes. A high fantasy Arabian NIghts themed army would be amazing.
A Kings of War army that would be interesting to see is something along the lines of “titans”. I refer to the mythical beings, not the mechanical monsters from 40k. In stead of “units” per say, you could have one larger model representing several different forms, eg a paladin, a sorcerer, or even hunters. You could include shepherds which could control beasts. It’s fit nicely as an elite low model count force, and something of a counter to the abyssal forces.
Otherwise a mercenary army of rag tag sell swords of various factions which could include some of the more obscure or minor kingdoms in Mantica, including races which would not be able to stand up as a full faction in their own right.
As for historical discussion; I recommend the memoires of Col Hans Von Luck under the title Panzer Commander. The Africa campaign in particular is quite interesting. The German forces were majorly hampered by poor logistical and air support. The Allies had also cracked the Axis enigma code and were able to track all their movements. This, superiority in men and materiel is what gave the allies and Montgomery such an edge. That said, the Germans managed to not only hold out, but fight back. In the end though, it was Hitler and his higher command which lost the war in Africa by treating it as a secondary front, ignoring the Allies as a threat, and almost losing a lot of their most experienced fighting forces by declaring a “stand and fight to the last man” which only got changed in the last second. The “German Dunkirk” meant that a lot of the veterans were available for defence in Europe and Russia.
Also interesting for wargaming purposes, the Bedouin tribes were more sympathetic to the Germans and indeed aided them on many occasions. Potential for some scenario special rules there I think. ( in case you were wondering: This is mainly because of the Lawrence of Arabia debacle which saw the British promises of land thrown out and to a certain extent the Nazi anti Semitic policies)
Monty gets a bad rap mainly because of Market Garden, and his cautiousness in Caen. He is, in my opinion, over rated but under played as a General. Over rated because he really had a lot of things going for him with logistics and intelligence ( Enigma code broken) and still did not really deliver and decisive outcomes. Wins, yes. But nothing decisive. Under played, because despite that, he did play a very important part in the allies war effort and tends to get over shadowed by Patton and Eisenhower.
(Disclaimer: I won’t necessarily be able to respond to and responders of this post so be patient if you do reply to this)
Although I think it’s a bit of a shame not to paint up the AvP miniatures in the ‘normal’ way, I have to admit that the way Justin has painted them they do actually look really, really good.
And I think the coloured base works well too. It adds to the ‘tactical display’ effect and I think actually that a black base would overwhelm single colour miniatures.
Although I think that Justin’s dwarves will look better once they’ve been flocked, I do think it’s pretty bad form to take someone else’s miniature and ‘improve it’ against their wishes!
As for Kings of War, although multi-basing looks good, I think people can take it too far. The attraction of mass battles is the spectacle of rank upon rank of troops, and turning every base into a diorama seems to me to be missing the point a bit. If I want miniatures crawling all over ruins, graveyards, etc. then I’ll play a skirmish game. The best thing about multibasing regiments I think is the ability to have masses of troops ranked up, but with a bit of uneven-ness to the lines so that they don’t look too uniform or too much like ‘blocks of toy soldiers’.
There are two things i’d really like to see from Mantic for KoW. The first is some Skav… er, I meen Vermen… er, ratmen! I’m less interested in big war machines but would like some nice, characterful and not over the top infantry units.
The second thing I’d like to see is some scenery. The futuristic battlezones stuff is great. I’m not sure what the equivalent would be for KoW. Some plastic dungeon terrain? Walls, floors as well as all sorts of dungeon furniture would be great!
I am really enjoying the direction Mantic is taking KoW to. I would also like to see some more exotic races perhaps like Naga make it to future lists.
What I would like to see in Kings of war is that knowledge in both magic and science doesn’t stay stagnate. These factions are at war almost all the time so everyone will be finding ways to make things better and quicker. Stat lines and abilities do not have to chance so much as maybe different looks of armor to look more refined or magical or some such to show ‘progress’ of knowledge. And since weapons and armor is ‘progressing’ at generally the same pace their effectiveness is about the same. “I now have better armor I can give you all my troops!” “well we have better armor as well with better Weapons!” “O look we have better weapons too!”
Justin- I think since they started flocking your models (wether you wanted them done or not) they should finish the job for you…..will give Loyd more time to (as he put it) get his “balls in the siv” lol
Great Show as always!
I’m planning my Kings of War dwarf army and currently considering building some Steam Behemoths like the Warcraft 3 steam tanks. KoW is such a great game for me and using my old Armalion miniatures – I just want them all to be in mini dioramas and fear to break them when I cut them from their bases..
One of our local shops is having a torney and i was concidering joining.Undecided to take undead lots of werewolves or taking a nature list. got a plastoy forest dragon i want to use a a forest monster and some small dragon a air elementals.
Kings of war wood elves would be very cool.
A vs predictor looks a step up from space hulk of course so it is super.
As an AvP backer:
I was excited in Nov 2013 when I backed it (£158)
I was excited to get the weekly progress update email
Then there were “delays” and it went quiet…
Then earlier this year light shone once more and I was excited to hear it was finally coming at the end of June (shipping June 22nd to KS backers)
Then I see it’s gone to retail on July 1st and I’m told I’ll have my copy by the end of July
In the meantime several people I know have bought retail copies (one gloating about the fact I still haven’t got mine)
Then I’m told I’ll get my copy by the end of August, meanwhile retail stocks are being replenished
Yesterday I’m told I’ll get my copy by mid-September
Now I have no enthusiasm left for this game, when it eventually does arrive it may end up on ebay.
Really glad KoW have made the decision to expand their army lists to cover the gamers who want to continue playing mass battle games. I got a load of Skaven minis just before the rumblings began about WFB going skirmish and was feeling pretty deflated, so am pleased I can give KoW a go with their ratmen list. 🙂 Loved the game play vids Justin did and hopefully can get a mate or two to try the game as well and get some big games in again. Would be interested in checking out a lizard warrior list and that could definitely get me spending if Mantic bring out some nice Lizard minis!! Keep it up guys.
Maybe I can soon repurpose my old WFB Lizardman figs for something good.
Salamander army list: https://manticforum.com/forum/kings-of-war/kings-of-war-2-beta/241607-salamanders-model-suggestions
A truly excellent book for those interested in what @johnlyons was talking about – “psychology” and mindset of German generals of WW2, the dilemmas of loyalty vs. willful ignorance and deliberate blind eye to who and what they were fighting for, etc. . .
David Dowding’s “The Devil’s Virtuosos – German Generals at War 1939-1945”
http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1978415.The_Devil_s_Virtuosos
It’s a short book, only 250 pages or so, but reallyzooms in on this topic and gives a solid German perspective on some of the war’s key campaigns.
Guederian was the real tank ace – although Rommel did well. Patton was an egotistic nutter although it’s interesting that the Germans were so sure he was going to lead D-Day they used him as a decoy. As for Monty… sigh. He was obsessed with his own appearance and image. One story I heard was that a load of men were made to wait in full dress in the desert for hours on Monty’s staff’s instructions… then he turns up in fatigues and makes a joke about how they didn’t have to dress up for him. All calculated to make him look good. Market garden was a disaster of course, and his advance in Normandy was slow but he deserves credit for El Alamein – more about guns than tanks by my understanding.
Guderian for the win! Although his ego was pretty out of control as well. I love him as a general, but his memoirs are 800 pages of “Here’s what I did right,” and “if only they’d listened to me.” 🙁
Good job he read Liddell Harts book and Fullers thoughts on mechanised warfare then
Certainly, certainly. There’s no denying that, Guderian himself acknowledges their writings in his prewar “Achtung Panzer.” But IMHO he took these these basic, hypothetical concepts and then took the next step, and the next step, and the sixteen steps after that. 🙂
I guess we could use game design as an example? Everyone has an idea for a great wargame. But how many people actually design, playtest, build components, playtest, write rules, playtest, design the graphics, playtest, playtest, playtest, and finally roll it out into production?
It was in actually building and “playtesting” the panzerwaffe that Guderian ran across 1,001 new problems that had to be solved, opportunities to the exploited, and angles to explore that writers and scholars will never find on their own because they aren’t BUILDING the thing (to Hart’s and Fullers’ defense, the British military wasn’t getting Guderian’s funding, and the Army was coming in last behind the Navy and the RAF).
Not to say that Guderian was perfect, I’m not trying to make him sound like “Panzer Jesus.” He certainly didn’t come up withe the Blitzkrieg by himself, nor was the Blitzkrieg a perfect operational doctrine. Guderian’s proposed plan for the invasion of the Soviet Union is a real gem, a prime of example of: “Oh, THAT’S your plan? Did you come up with that before or after Oktoberfest?” 😀
If you read the likes of Davod Fletchers stuff or watch his interviews or such he speaks rather lowly of Guderian Fuller and Liddell Hart’s contribution to the “modern tank arm”
It really seems that some of the first and most interesting experimentation was done in Russia and france, with “Deep Battle” and “Bea Swarm” tactics respectively. However, all that thinking fell to an arse when nearly all the countries in the League of Nations decided tanks were a one hit wonder and needed only to support infantry. Leaving Germany to monopolise on the gap in tactical thinking.
I have to agree that the Soviet ideas of “Deep Battle,” like Fuller and Hart, were a critical foundation to what we saw in the early phases of the war. As far as actualizing it as an operational doctrine, however, I’m going to respectfully stick with my man Guderian on three key points.
1) Writers like Prof John Erikson (Defense Studies, University of Edinburgh) start to raise issues with the degree that Deep Battle “inspired” Blitzkrieg. Note that he’s saying “degree,” he’s not contesting that it was a foundation at all. Certainly it was. But he calls Russian claims on “blitzkrieg” . . .”a bit of national pride being thrown in.”
Starting at 18:05:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ns3AV-nOU8g&list=PLtY6sz632xz6y-FN2yuY-VhpEu7A5YWJB&index=9
2) This may be just my opinion, but i feel the most critical component of Blitzkrieg as an operational doctrine wasn’t the tank or the Stuka or the artillery or even the grenadiers, it was the radio. TO MY KNOWLEDGE, Fuller or Hart didn’t address this and of course we KNOW the Soviets didn’t with their signal-flag tanks.
3) Any brilliance the Red Army under Marshal Tukhachevsky may have achieved in the early and mid 30s (and I loves me some WW2 Soviets, I give them credit wherever I can) . . . was eradicated by the purges of 1936-1939. I read somewhere that you have to go down to the rank of Major before your odds of surviving that period exceed 50%. So whatever brilliance Deep Battle may have brought to the table, and I don’t deny it for a second, was sadly and criminally thrown away. Hence the dismal Soviet performances in Poland in 39, Finland in 39-40, and Barbarossa / Typhoon in 41.
I would, however, rate Tukhachevsky’s Red Army and “Deep Battle” above Fuller and Hart. The logic being:
1) Fuller and Hart had a vision, and wrote some groundbreaking books.
2) The Soviets actually built an ARMY based on “Deep Battle,” but even this wasn’t complete (radios), and never saw it successfully deployed into combat (although this was hardly their fault).
3) Guderian completed the idea, pushed it through the hidebound infantry and artillery officer cadre running the Reichswehr / Wehrmacht at the time, and got it into battle, where it did REASONABLY well (not perfectly, as we all know) in the early part of the war.
Oh, and I love David Fletcher. 😀 His interviews are not only informative, but he almost always finds a way to bring a touch of humor.
Montgomery only took over Auchinleck’s command of the 8th army in the desert because Churchill’s choice Leiutenant General Gott died in an air crash.
Eisenhower suggested that General Alexander should be ground forces commander for the Normandy landings and General Bradley commented that he would have rather worked with Alexander than Montgomery, adding that Montgomery’s campaign problems would not have occurred under Alexander. Montgomery seems to have been a favourite of Field Marshall Brooke who highly rated him.
Sorry if all this has already been said, have not read through all the comments.
Oh as for Kings of war – a proper human Saracen army (like the haradrim (sic?) from Lord of the Rings) would be cool – something to oppose the Tomb… warriors of ash. 🙂
I’m super excited by the Kings of War supplement armies.. the fact that Mantic is helping out all those abandoned by other companies.. or even just giving people another game to use their existing armies in is such a great thing to see.. my friend has always wanted a rat-kin army and now he has a reason to work on putting it together… also, I am a bit inspired by the diorama idea.. for my Ogre army I think I may put a big ogre with a converted bow & arrow in the middle of my Red Goblin Archer regiment and play around with the Chariot models a bit more to have them bouncing around with a wheel off the ground (or running over a poor goblin that didn’t move fast enough) … also, I went out an picked up a plastic toy rhinoceros and am going to customize it with bigger & more horns.. and some body armor.. and maybe a rider and use it as my Mammoth monster…
Got my movement trays on order now, started prepping the Abyssal Dwarf starter kit I bought a few months back, now just waiting for my kickstarter pledge to turn up and bury me in plastic 🙂
Although I hate to support Warren and Lloyd’s mischief, I have to say Justin, the miniatures with the flocking looks a lot better.
Must say I’m very pumped! I’ve been looking to start a KOW army and the Undead look awesome . As far as my build goes, the starter set would be great starting place for me. I think that adding some more Werewolves and characters to support the troops and add a little more magic punch. The paint scheem of my army might just be all different patterns and colors. My thought is that these were all units and such from different armies so it would not all match.
The biggest thing I love about Kings of War is that I can create dioramas for my units. Instead of having to paint 20-40+ minis per unit I can create a Diorama, setting a small scene of battle. I always paint every mini to the best of my ability which translates to alot of time spent per figure. Being able to paint a scene with more visual interest allows me to spend more time on the Characters while still being able to complete the unit much faster. The increase in completion time helps to prevent me from losing interest in the game. All and all Kings of War is going to be my mass fantasy game.
I just been working on my undead kings of war army but the idea of an ethereal army look is just what i was looking for only for the animated (bony type) though. vamps and werewolves etc are going normal. anyone have a good tutorial to do ethereal?
Great weekender! I have been avoiding KoW because I do not have the bandwidth to paint the units required for a mass battle game. Having decent paint on the minis adds a lot to the hobby for me so I have not explored KoW. Your ideas on finding ways to reduce the painting effort and still have something that looks good on the table is very thought provoking.
Just fought my second kings of war battle last night. Great game!
I would love to see a Fairy/Forest Creature/Dryad themed army for Kings of War. Swarms of small creatures led by their larger brethren and with Dragons and the like.
Army of Nature list.
Im really keen on trying out kings of war, especially now i can dust my skaven off. Thanks for bring some ratmen to the game!
I hear “cheap” and “Airbrushing” in the same sentence – I am curious.
Great weekender chaps.
As a skaven player im looking forward to the ratmen army, hoping they release their own miniatures in the future, whilst i do enjoy the skaven i hope the ratmen take a different path, still be underhanded but try a more tech approach or a more hardline approach.
for future army list i would love to see a eastern style army, inspired by japan, china etc, would love to see samurai inspired minis running around, ninjas hiding in units assassin style, hiding in scenery laying traps or shooting poison around, maybe include some of the folklore as well, kappas and youkai. could be a striking army.
and very intrigued by how dungeon saga will affect kings of war, having per ordered dungeon saga cant wait.
I am glad that Kings of War has been talked about in the context of Campaigns. Several friends and I are getting armies solely because we have identified KoW as a good set of rules to use for campaign fantasy wargaming. We will use some world building rules to make our own background rather than use Mantica though.
Would love to hear more about this – I’m a huge fans of both fantasy campaigns and world building!
I’m eager to receive my ogres from the KoW kickstarter. As for future army, I’d like to see something asian themed, but not human. Maybe something like ninja cat-people, or samurai pandas.
I’m not much of a fan of fantasy these days (way too much D&D when I was younger), and mass combat never really interested too much. However, I keep glancing at Kings of War since I am a fan of both Dreadball and Deadzone. Mantic does seem to make really fun, fast, and affordable games. If it weren’t for the fact that I have to buy and paint at least two armies (I have friends that will play but not do any of the pre-work) I would get involved. I fancy the goblins. I like horde tactics to some extent, and my natural dice rolling seems to lead cowardly troops anyways.
i love kings of war, the rules are so simple, yet good enough to have a substantial and enjoyable game.
Am disapointed with some of the models though, i was so looking forward to doing a basilean army when they came out, then last year, finally go the 30 box deal of sisterhood panther lancers, the models i found were so horrible to put together, and so many of them were warped etc, put my right off building the army. I hate the resin/plastic material they use so much, is ok for a one off model like a character, but for a whole army of rank and file infantry etc, it is a horrible material.
I do intend on getting around to painting one of the lancers, perhaps if i turns out well, may motivate to start trying to build the army again
What about making the army dioramas part of a larger diorama that displays it all but has pieces that can be lifted out. Warmachine used to be big on it.
Absolutely getting a tuft making machine, poor old Justin now having to do what he should have to start with.
Man that AVP game looks the K9’s spherical’s and for once justins painting idea looked and worked fantastic.
Great show, a cold coffee and soggy breakfast serial of a Saturday.
I really like the quick play aspect of Kings of War. I would be really interested in seeing Halflings in the game as an army of their own.
I think the problem at the moment is that there isn’t a source of cheap halfling models to create multiple units, so there’s (currently) little point in creating a halfling army list. If you don’t mind “realistically” proportioned haflings I suppose 15mm historical mini’s could be used to represent them.
My grandfather actually fought with the rats of Tabruk, he also fought in the pacific theatre as well, sadly I am still learning a lot about it because like so many others he refused to talk about the war, and passed when I was just a boy, I have memories of him but not many.
As for Kings of War this change in the market is a wonderful opportunity for Mantic and I think its great to see them embracing it head on. From the classic armies it was always the Abyssal Dwarves I liked from WFB it was Skaven for me. Had left them as maybe’s but if I did win I would have to go Abyssal
I don’t know Kings of war but it sounds like a good game. What i would like to see in it (if it ain’t there already) is tunnel / dungeon fighting/war. Kinda like it a dwarven underway in warhammer.
As for North Africa campaign World War II, I haven’t been all that interest in the early war mostly in that the United States wasn’t that involved. Even in north Africa, I got the impression that the United States wasn’t that involved comparably to the nations already fighting there as well as the European Theater. Even when the US did get involved, I got the impression they had to do a lot of catch up to becoming a good fighting force since they were so inexperienced to modern war. I still consider myself a sort of fair-weather fan of WWII history so I really only know about the more iconic stuff. There seems to be a lack of North Africa media (same with the Eastern Front) to me with only a few non-documentary movies and TV shows about it.
I also want to mention I like when Beast of War does these contests that require actual discussion or other little secret things within their videos. I actually do read through the comments quite a bit, and I tire of seeing many of the same names writing a sentence or less about nothing in the attached video. It was gave me the impression they are just setting a wide net just in case there is something to win. I might even have been guiltily of this (can’t remember), but I like the idea that if you want to win you got to watch and comment in some specific fashion to win.
The US forces learned almost everything they took to mainland Europe in the desert. Their entire doctrine changed by the time of D-day due to their experiences against Rommel, especially after the disaster at Kaserine pass.
The main Tank related bit that changed was that the US initially treated tanks like traditional cavalry, and charged them forward ahead of infantry and such, which made them a big target for the Germans who knew how to place thier AT guns effectively to stop such a move.
Tons of other stuff changed too, but most importantly, it gave the men on the ground and the generals the experience they needed to adapt and continue.
What he said. ^^^ 😀
Yes it was the British doctrine of going after the periphery, the soft underbelly, of the Med that allowed the US to gain experience that they were sorely lacking. Those quickly (in some cases) promoted senior officers needed to get the experience with the modern war and the modern equipment.
The Generals of WWII. They to some degree had an ego to succeed that others under their command followed, though each had there own way of doing it. Being British Monty was our man and learnt his trade in the trenches of WWI so no wonder he was cautious and valued the lives of his men, as he would have seen so many wasted in the trenches. The fact he succeeded in Africa when all others failed you can see why the British Government favored hi for the British Army.
However one can’t like Patton, what an eccentric person and mad as a hatter, but what a leader, he just had that ability to get his men to deliver and boy did he deliver and from an historical point it would have been interesting to see what would have happened if he had his way and we did indeed attack to the East.
The Desert Fox was of the old Prussian school and was very adapt in his tactics, but alas I feel the pressures from home and the ability to command whilst in effect being micro managed from Berlin would have stuck hard and no wonder he got involved in a plot to rid Germay of Hitler..
Though you can’t forget the role Bradley played as he was a true soldiers, soldier and dust got the job done without the overt egotism the others displayed.
All are truly men that created history and given us the world we lived in till 2000, as since then we have done our best to Fock the world up and almost make the sacrafices of the past almost null and void.
Ignore this one edited version below.
Ignore post above, see one below.
The Generals of WWII. They to some degree had an ego to succeed that others under their command followed, though each had there own way of doing it. Being British Monty was our man and learnt his trade in the trenches of WWI so no wonder he was cautious and valued the lives of his men, as he would have seen so many wasted in the trenches. The fact he succeeded in Africa when all others failed you can see why the British Government favored hi for the British Army.
However one can’t help but like Patton, what an eccentric person and mad as a hatter, but what a leader, he just had that ability to get his men to deliver and boy did he deliver and from an historical point it would have been interesting to see what would have happened if he had his way and we did indeed attack to the East.
The Desert Fox was of the old Prussian school and was very adapt in his tactics, but alas I feel the pressures from home and the ability to command whilst in effect being micro managed from Berlin would have stuck hard and no wonder he got involved in a plot to rid Germay of Hitler..
Though you can’t forget the role Bradley played as he was a true soldiers, soldier and dust got the job done without the overt egotism the others displayed.
All are truly men that created history and given us the world we lived in till 2000, as since then we have done our best to Fock the world up and almost make the sacrafices of the past almost null and void.
I think that kings of war looks a great prospect. The idea of diorama bases really appeals to me. I had a go at the ethereal scheme and I’m not sure where I went wrong but I wasn’t very happy with the outcome. Perhaps a second try on an undead army might be in order.
YES! Planes in Bolt Action! Definitely going to get one, even if its just to try out!
As for KoW, I’m stoked to try it out, but I want to be able to use my WFB Dark Elves models as Twilight Kin, and I read somewhere on the Mantic website a list of the factions included in 2nd Edition. “Elves” were listed, but Twilight Kin and the other elf factions weren’t specifically mentioned. I sent a message to Mantic to ask but haven’t heard back. Is anyone else in this conundrum? I don’t really want to start another collection of miniatures, but I want to play this game!
Twig blight Kin are getting an overhauls I they aren’t in the lists coming in the rule book as may have been expected given they’re an existing faction. Actually the newsletter a couple of days ago had a lovely little piece of art of twigs light kin saying ‘coming next week’ so I’m guessing that will be more info on the twighlight kin, not necessarily a ‘here’s the list, have at it’.
I hate my iPad version browser doesn’t appear to allow edits… ‘Twig blight kin’? …. Not my suggestion for a new faction….
I backed the KOW2 Kickstarter and dungeon saga as I loved the idea that the minis can be used for either. I also backed AvP as I really enjoyed the old leading edge aliens RPG.
This is for Warren and the Beasts of War gang. Not sure if you’ve seen it but “Cross of Iron”
Is the best WW2 movie from the German point of view. Sam Peckinpah directed it.
The film goes into the division between nazi and non nazi soldiers. Such a great movie!
The marines can weld the doors shut!? it’s a small element but that detail has me sold on AVP. I’ll be getting into this I think.
Can you nuke the site from orbit? It is, after all, the only way to be sure.
In the process of building Wrath of Kings Nasier and Goritsi armies into Abyssals and Undead KoW ones respectively as I wait for my KoW2 KS and my bazillions of Basileans! Needless to say I’m loving building these big armies and making the scenic bases. For the WoK armies I’m magnetizing the bases so I can use them separate or as part of a large force.
Justin, the idea for painting up the figures as holograms is inspired (one I am tempted to steal by the way). I think I might have had a bit of a nerdgasm when it was mentioned that the Aliens can infect other races. I think this game is one to keep an eye on.
I could be wrong but I think Montgomery was badly wounded in the first world war and his experience there shaped him as a general. He was compared to a lot of the other generals less willing to risk the lives of his men on risky or chance operations. he preferred to have a solid plan and wait until he had everything he need to achieve his goals, in terms of men, materials and equipment. Also as john mentioned the less combat weary or tested Americans could afford to take risks as they had vast amounts of resources behind them and where more willing to do so as having just entered the war hadn’t yet experience the horror and costs of it.
He was shot by a sniper
I’d like to see more fluff and artwork out of KoW but judging by the cover of the new rulebook I think I’m going to get that in buckets! hmmmm? something constructive to say about KoW… I think it is awesome I am slowly amassing bits and bobs and putting things together to field some mighty armies. I really can’t wait to see a ish-tonne of BoW members doing their KoW stuff and putting it up on the forums!! It is the best game for looking at peoples stuff I spend ages just looking at peoples armies and diorama based units on the KoW fanatics FB page it is awesome.
Thanks for the mention gents 🙂
@lloyd – Good luck on figuring out how to make tufts without a negative ion generator mate, I’ve tried all sorts with no where near the same effect.
Very good tutorial on making, sir!
Thanks mate, nowhere near BoW standards but I try, I’m told I’m very trying 😉
The talk of the SAS in he North Africa campaign makes me wonder if we will ever see Bolt Action make a special forces army book. I for one would love to see an SAS army versus a German Heer army, or Brandenbergers, or even some off-the-wall Hollywood “Dirty Dozen” type setups. 🙂
I’m really interested to start an Ogre army for KoW 2nd. Tried a test game with a friend and I think I liked it. The thing I loved the most in starting this game is, I can “cheat” the number of models that I have to paint in this game..
Monty was required to keep down casualties in a way Patton was not. Monty effectively had Rommel beaten in the desert war before the US troops landed there. Also in Western Europe it must be recognised that Monty tied down a considerable number of German armoured units around Caen allowing Patton’s forces to progress rapidly from elsewhere where there was less opposition. Monty’s biggest failure was Market Garden but even that accomplished much. I agree that he was probably the best General of the three given the circumstances.
Great weekender
Lets start with KoW, Great game that deserves to be the number fantasy mass battle game as it most definitely is. I have been playing it since it came out. I have enjoyed and loved watching it grow. I am watching my mail box avidly waiting for the second edition to arrive. The PDF is nice but their is just something about having a new book. I also really like the new Dwarf sharp shooter models even if they do resemble so rats from the past 🙂 Speaking of rats from the past I think that it is great that Mantic is picking up that other company’s orphan armies.
As to the WWII John old boy you are loosing it Monty is by far the worst of the lot. I am looking forward to Oriskany’s new series as he has a good insight. Most people forget that Rommel was only sent to Africa to bail out the Italians. If Mussolini had not asked Hitler for help, Rommel and the Africa Corps would never had been sent to Africa to begin with. Some of the most exciting(from a gamer’s perspective) battles occur before the US even enters the theater. There are Several races up and down the coast. Free wheeling tank battles in the desert. Large sieges in places like Tobruk. New tactics and daring raids being invented on the fly. The LRDG which would give eventually merge into the SAS(also inspire a TV show The Rat Patrol). Obviously one of my favorite periods 🙂
I would be interested to know why Monty was the worst of the lot? As has been said here several times All three were very different Characters. Therefore to actually state who was the best is actually quiet hard to determine.
I personally think they were all good commanders and did what they could with the resources that they had at their disposal..had Market Garden been a success I think that Monty would have been hailed alongside Wellington but as it was circumstances meant that Market Garden failed. Patton was a gungho general that at times rode his luck and was the daring doer that the Americans liked when it goes their way but will drop if things ain’t right…
As to Rommel he was a goof field commander however he was given a bum steer with North Africa, however by the time of Normandy Hitler was Paranoid and would not let his generals do their jobs in the field had Rommel been given autonomy in northern europe in 44 who knows how dday may have played out.
Actually, among THOSE particular three, I’d say he was the best, at least as far as operational battlefield management. Reasons are listed in another post on this thread. 🙂
Just tried Kings of War at GenCon this year. Had a great time with it and glad to see BoW is a resource!!
I have been working on an Undead force and I’m trying to theme it around classic horror monsters. So personally I’d like to see some models that reflect that. Mummie without armor, etc.
Also, your talk of desert WW2 action has me itching to get started on a Flames of War army. I’m still debating either the Soviets or an American Desert force.
I have a mate that went in for the whole ‘buy every single army’ thing on the kickstarter. I think he has absolutely no idea what he’s in for when 1000 models turn up…
I think Monty gets a rough deal from the Americans and those who are ill-informed. If it hadn’t been for Monty, then Dunkirk could have been a massacre, he reinforced the left flank of the BEF and made a very professional organised retreat, buying time for those on the beach. When he went to Africa in 42 he transformed 8th army, boosted morale and put the wind up Rommel
Great weekend update. The AvP game looks fantastic, though I want to see a bit of game play before dropping down a pile of cash.
KoW looks slightly better to me. Currently don’t have a fantasy mass mini combat game, and this one is looking very promising. Looking at building and oversized forest with a tower and farm and pond. Having a nice army of Elves and Basilea battling in, on, and around sounds fantastic.
On the subject of Rommel, he never joined the Nazi party. Not only was he not a sincere or heartfelt Nazi, he was not technically a Nazi at all. He was a professional soldier.
Lots of high ranking officers in the Wehrmacht were of this ilk. Their careers began before the third reich, and many only became party members as a matter of expediency.
That’s why Hitler rightly recognised the Wehrmacht as a threat to him. Rommel was among the officers behind the failed plot to assassinate him.
AVP looks so cool.
I wouldn’t mind seeing more of beastmen in KoW.
On the subject of Rommel: you guys were asking whether or not he was a “real” nazi. I don’t know if he was involved in Valkyrie, but wasn’t he ordered to commit suicide for plotting against Hitler? As I understand it, he was about as good and honourable as it was possible to be while serving such a monstrous regime.
I have a bunch of armies for KOW and would recommend it to anyone who likes fantasy warfare! My only suggestion is for Mantic to take some time and come out with an full-book sized campaign guide that covers hex games, linked games, sieges, new scenarios, and even (my absolute favorite) naval combat.
Since there are now loads more KOW players and KOW gaming groups I believe that it’s imperative for Mantic to release a campaign book to help keep the enthusiasm for the game going.
There it is – my 0.02
Regarding kings of war, I’d like to see mantic distance their setting from the old world, rather than rebuilding it, by introducing races who never existed there.
Gnolls. Make me a gnoll army and you can take my money now.
So I am expecting Both an Elf and orc mega army from the KOW kickstarter soon, if I were to get the prize here I would like to start building a undead army. In the world of mantica it seems that the undead are the main force of evil. I would like to start building that force to an extreme amount of minis so that I can pile undead on the KOW stage and the dungeon saga game as well ( yeah, I went big and bought all the expansion on that too)
Our gaming group just started with KoW this month. Btw. thanks to Ronnie for helping us with some free rulebooks. Many of them have some fantasy armies. Me not. So i think this is the right moment to start my very first fantasy army. And why not starting with the right stuff. Forces of the Abyss could be my start. So please help me BoW-Crew.
Im in urgent need.
Defintely interested in this, both as an alternative to WFB, and also as an alternative use of my SAGA models (which I didn’t realise I could, so thanks BOW). Interestingly, my favourite starter armies are the Abyssal Dwarfs or the Basileans due to the different creatures/units available in each !
The way Warren described the Predators, I could not help thinking “a race of dentists”. #ouch
I’m not a minis player (apart from X-Wing). I think Justin did a fine job on the AVP minis. Yes, maybe dry brush but they look good enough for gaming to me.
Would be amazing to see a Dragon / Dragonkin style army from any type of fantasy game. Im a sucker for a dragon 🙂
I do think Patton gets too much credit, how much of that stems from him making a great moral and propaganda peace during the war and how much is post war revisionism and Hollywood I don’t know, its the same with both Rommel and Monty they became in effect figure heads. personally I think monty gets a bit of bum deal, what he achieved in the desert more than anything else was to lift moral and instill a fighting spirit, yes the new equipment helped him achieve his victories but that equipment in the hands of a still dispirited army I doubt would have produced the same results. There are times when after growing up with the sunday wwII moves and then later reading I start to wonder “was that in the movie because it really happened, or is it being quoted as fact because it was in the movie”. My opinion of the American generals I do have some knowledge of suggest Patton got the glory while people like Omar Bradley did a lot of the work.
I’m going to need to pick up one of those flockboxes. I’m about halfway through building my Dwarven Army now and man that would save time.
It looks like Justin does the bases like I do. A thin slice of plasticard underneath the individual bases to help hold them together in one massive base. I do, however, flock mine.
Speaking of the dwarves. We are still missing a couple of models for stuff. I can’t wait to see what they come up with for those.
For Kings of War i would like to see an egyptian undead army with loads of light chariots. Or a cat like race with japaneese armor and weapons. And the big things like dragons for the elves, warmammouth for the orcs and a big zeppelin for the dwarfs.
I think they are doing the desert skeletons. Love your idea for samurai/kungfu cats ! More original forces is a good shout
Monti was fine until it was his turn to use the large volume of equipment and manpower that increased when the Allies actually became a coalition of the willing following an event in early Dec of 1941. Once the options were in front of him he wanted to use them all to show his greatness and was usually out of his depth. He was strategically strong in N. Africa with getting by with the minimum and once other leaders came forward it seems he needed to go bigger and bigger to prove he was still viable. Thus Sicily and Market Garden.
I would love to sey a hawk man army 🙂
What i really want for KoW is to have Guild of Mages neutral faction. The main idea is to have multiples spheres of magic and be able to invoke multiple elementals that will act as the muscle of the mages. They will probably won’t be viable as a stand alone faction but rather as allies of the main army you want to play.
The reason why i really want this is because it looks like magic, even if it seems right now there is more options for spells in the army list, there is no full magic experience that other fantasy games have and you can’t create your mage to your desire ( Dungeon Saga, surely has a good system for creating heroes that are viable ) and also there is not many AoE magic effects that make part of the terrain hard to move, you will take damage if you cross it or some other effect.
Leaving mages aside, i would love to see Werewolfs as a playable faction or at least being able to combine them with Forces of Nature and the like… Maybe is possible but since they are with Undead only it will be odd to combine Undead’s units within a Nature’s army ( as far as i remember they are mutual enemies in the world of Mantica ).
Werewolves as a playable faction sounds great. I like the idea of combining them with Forces of Nature. I am a horror film fan and would like to see lines blurred like this. If you think about the Yorkshire setting of An American Werewolf in London and also the (original) Wicker Man with its ties to paganism you could make an interesting backstory there…. 🙂
ps. what about different clans of werewolves with geographic differences ?
Regarding KoW. It was interesting to see what armies may be entering this world. I have been wanting to get back into fantasy armies for a couple of years and struggled to settle on a system. With the new Age of Sigmar out there and the likes of Warmachine and other fantasy games it is difficult to make a decision these days where to start or re-start.
I still have older miniatures laying about that may work perfectly in the new KoW so I am keen to learn more about the forces they are adding to the story, but also what I have wondered is where the bigger stuff comes in. The likes of Dragons, Wyverns and other war-beasts and war machines. To me these are the things that add the epic flavor to massed battles. On that note some compatible siege rules would also be fun for those of us that have an old castle laying about 🙂
I know that the game is called Kings of War but personally what I would like to see is an army led by a Lady.
My idea for this a noble has been killed and by some ancient law, his widow is now next in line to lead taking control of their lands, which she does by becoming ruthless and dealing with opposition to her rule in a bloody manner as to protect her children from the dark intentions of her relatives and in-laws.
Of course the Games of Thrones character of Daenerys Targaryen springs to mind, but history is full of powerful women, whether Elizabeth I, Catherine II of Russia or Maria Theresa of Austria, who would have become our monarch in the 18th century if she hadn’t died.
My Lady, a Baroness will be a fiftysomething at the start of the game, having ruled for 15 years and her force will be staffed by peasants but feature a exclusive line of crusader women who have been inspired to take up arms and as well as being armed with Halberds, pikes, swords and crossbows.
Perhaps, my lady also benefits from an ancient treaty with other species such as elves or dwarfs also has access to a mysterious new technology that can burn enemies from a distance…….
Love Kings Of war, fun, easy to play, yet hard to master. We do play fantasy but Kings of war is also a great historical game. A number of Web site’s have historical list for everything from Romans to the American Civil war. You guys should try it. It’s a lot of fun. I would like to see Mantic come out with some official historical lists. I think Mantic could branch off kings of war in a whole new direction. Something to think about. As far as generals, if I had an army which needed a general Patton would be my man, hand down.
I’d love for KoW to bring in more cultures. I’d love to see an Indian-, Zulu-, or Khmer- (ancient Cambodian) themed army. Those are really cool and flavorful cultures that I don’t think I’ve seen represented well among fantasy armies, but I think they’d fit well with the ethos and would allow them to expand their view of Mantica.
But, really, they’re doing a great job right now.
Kings of War has a large following in my local club, but I’ve never got round to playing it. I’ve never been much of a fantasy player, although I did try with WFB a long time ago, I just couldn’t get into it. Too slow and ponderous. When I read the 1st edition KOW rules and watched some demo games online, I was keen to try it out, and picked up a Dwarf 1 player starter box.
After building the models I realised I had made an arse of it, as the weapons and shield arms were preventing the figures from cleanly ranking up – I suddenly realised why the GW slotta bases of old had a diagonal slit on them. Was quite annoyed with myself for doing that, so I haven’t done much with them since. But the diorama idea is good, as I could base less figures or allow for gaps. Think I might try that one!
Judging by earlier comments, loads of people have had similar ideas about using historical figures for human KOW armies. I was quite taken by the idea of making a Knights Templar army, or a Zulu-inspired one, a Roman-esque legion, or a Spartan one.
For KoW a coalition of Pygmies and Amazons with Silverback Gorillas and other jungley stuff, isn’t it obvious ?
i would like to see a more steam punky feel to the dwarfs that just how i like them
With WFB dead, I havent yet made the jump to KoW, ive visited the site often, stuck stuff in my cart…but just not purchased. Not sure why, but im sure with the death of WFB, something will push me into it eventually!
ive had this discussion with my fellow gamers about how we have lost our rank and file game. so we have come to the conclusion that we will still be play warhammer A.O.S. but we may convert over to black power to get our block army fix
. but I’m saving my gobos on square bases 1 because I cant be feel bothered to rebase 200+ goblins and 2 so I can try out kings of war
I love the twilight elves from Mantic, probably more than the GW counterparts, but I wish there would be more models, especially female
That was a flocking good show, AVP looks brilliant, and the warlord planes look good, finally @oriskany on the road again. Justin the AVP figures are excellent just do the flocking dwarfs? Warren I think the Italians wanted control of the Suez Canal to control the cargo going to Europe?
I would love to see a half cat lion/human hybrid (lionian) army (Ajani from MTG)
and Some sort of demonic infused war machines for the abyssal dwarfs
Ohh and nice show again guys, AVP looks great but how did the box smell? love new box smell. That movie (Promethius) was alright till the end then terrible like the last Alien movie.
Justin looks like your going to have to finish basing your dwarfs now (ha ha) but that chilled dwarf looked so good relaxing in the long grass.
I’ve been contemplating getting into kings of war for a while now. Started when they were running the Kickstarter for the second edition book. The problem I had at the time (apart from having already spent all my money on Dungeon Saga) was that I didn’t know what army I’d be interested in playing. I’ve spent plenty of time since lurking on the forums, reading battle reports, analyses of tactics and rules and even about painting schemes, and I’ve narrowed it down to three armies.
First off are the Ogres. They’re brilliant models, much preferred style wise over GWs, I’ve always wanted to field an army of monsters, they have war mammoths (always freaking awesome!) and the low model count would mean less painting. There’s a lot of pluses there. However the major minus is their difficulty I playing. Because they’re so effective individually, they are often outnumbered and their size means they’re easier to shoot so require real finess to play. Maybe not the best army to start war gaming with.
Next up are the Abyssal Dwarves. They too have a huge amount of character, I love their history as slavers, they have awesome war machines and let’s not forget they have the brilliant obsidion golems which are awesome. The major down side is how slow they are. They also used to be part metal hybrids of the standard dwarf models though this no longer seems to be the case which makes them a lot more appealing.
Finally there are the Abyssals themselves. They look cool and the idea of advancing an army of hellspawn across the land destroying all in their wake is very appealing. Two downsides to these are the fact that they are a hoard army which means lots of painting, and they aren’t out yet, so I’m planning on waiting until I can see their whole range in more detail rather than the glimpses we’ve had so far. Regarding painting, a red motive does mean basing them in red would save loads on paint time. Also bases would be very entertaining to do with rifts and lava flows.
Almost hope I don’t get picked so I don’t have to choose, but who am I kidding. I’d probably go for Abyssal Dwarves as a primary choice, though if Abyssals were an option it would make it harder.
Thanks for reading this rambling rant if you did. Past bed time for me. Back to lurking on the Mantic forums.
Hmm, I’m debating whether I should be going Dungeon Saga, or Privateer Presses The Undercity. Both have different worlds that I currently don’t participate it, but both have a neat setting. I’m leaning towards Dungeon Saga, because of its familiar Fantasy Feel…Acck decisions. I also agree with some other posters, Justin did a great job with his AVP characters, fast, playable, and I think that what he did makes the game quickly playable for those of us who struggle with the time to play games. Can always enhance the figs later, but kudos for now.
Warren, read Rick Atkinson’s Army at Dawn . A fantastic non fiction book about America’s, and Patton’s entry into the war in Tunisia. He learnt some hard lessons from the Germans before he became the superstar of the later war. Rommel was noted for his fluid style which struggled when bogged down at Tobruk and he was outfoxed by Monty at El Alamein when he used the Australian division as a feint before hooking with his armour. Looking forward to the article series as it is my favourite theatre of the war.
I am sorry if this has been covered but has anyone come up with the best way to rebase an existing Warhammer or KOW army into the diarama style. I have a heap of armies all based individually on 20mm square bases butcan’t figure out how to clip them off their plastic bases and still have enough to put the, on new big unit sized mdf bases. Do I just stick them down in ranks and throw some new flock over the top…not my preferred solution. Imagine, for example rebasing my Empire army…all those spear and swordsman.
I am interested in playing kings of war. I have lots of fantasy armies from dwarves to beastmen, and with the changes going on in other game systems I would love to move to kings of war. I would love to work on a dwarf army, which is an army I have always loved to play with tough armor and war machines.
Great weekender.
AVP box looked like an excellent piece of work. I enjoyed predator, I jumped out of my own skin watching alien and I watched AVP the night before my wedding with my best mate. I don’t think I’d be considered a fan of the films but the quality or the sculpts and all the other content does make it look really enticing.
Glad to see Kings of War kicking up a gear and grasping the fantasy massed battle market. I don’t have a fantasy army and am currently enjoying skirmish games more, but the idea of making diarama troop trays and building fantasy terrain does appeal to me.
The flock tray was an excellent way to get Justin to base his minis. Lol. Standing grass looks fantastic and I doubt I will be the only person experimenting with balloons later on. 🙂
I have bought some 28mm Perry 8th Army and DAK but don’t know a lot about the North Africa wars. Although there is plenty to learn it is difficult to read the history without coming across the lead figures. Monty is a accused of both being too cautious and at being too ambitious with Market Garden. Accused of being a proud and pompous man. This may have been true, but I’m not sure I could stomach having an ally arriving after the British has faced years of bloodshed and be told you’re doing it wrong and this guy is your boss now because he has the bigger army.
Great show guys! Can’t wait to finally get my AVP KS and Dungeon Saga and… KOW! Really like Justin’s AVP minis, i think i’m gonna use army painter’s washes on the aliens and will paint the rest in normal fashion.
As for KOW, haven’t really read all the background, so my idea might already exist but, it would be nice to have an all cavalry army, like Gengis Khan!
I think the Brits fought the best desert war, like John said, ’39 to 43, enough said!
Thanks for the great show gang. Always a pleasure to see whats happening in gaming. Though I must admit 75% holds no interest to me I still enjoy the coverage. Historical topics could use a little more subject matter than FoW WW2 and Bolt Action WW2.The Africa desert article sounds cool, though not my bag I’m sure it will be interesting and look forward to it. Lastly, Rommel knew of the slave labor being used to build the Atlantic wall, hundreds dying in the process, so I would take issue with the not a real Nazi comment. Those in the German High Command that could have stood up for their troops did very little, self preservation being the rule of thumb. They, for the most part, were the definition of “yes” men.
I like what Mantic is doing with Kings Of War for the most part. Although I was kind of hoping they would have been more creative with the different factions. They seem to be your stereotypical Humans, Dwarves, Orcs, & so on that we’ve seen before. Of course maybe that is what most players want. Why not mix things up. Orcs as the advanced civilized culture. Elves as primitive nomadic tribes. Undead who just want to be left alone but are harassed by the living factions because the see them as unnatural. Humans could be a the younger growing faction that is willing to do whatever it takes to be on top. You get the Idea. I know Mantic is unlikely to change existing factions but I hope they are willing to take more bolder chances with any new ones they come up with.
Does Prodos plan to make clear plastic/resin versions of the Predators (active camo stealth versions)? Or do they plan for base inserts with generic floor panels to match the board tiles?
I actually liked Justin’s idea of making the minis as holograms with the bases as blips but why paint the base outer ring black? Why not make it the same color as the faction? It would make them stand out even more from the dark tiles.
Very fitting weekender this week, thanks guys. I just played my first ever game of KoW, I’ve been playing ‘that other game’ for 25 years now and was so angry with the removal of it’s battle game aspect. A friend of mine has been raving about KoW for a few weeks now and we finally set up an intro for me. I used my warhammer empire army as the Kingdoms of Men. I was very impressed at how easy and quick the game is to pick up.
What has got me really excited now is the beta rules for Varangur. Only recently I have finished work on my Warhammer, Warriors of Chaos army. Built during the end times and finished right before the world was destroyed and the game changed for ever. They’ve been sitting unused on my shelf since. Now able to re-purpose these as a Varangur army has me jumping into this game all the way. It’s all I want to play, and can’t get enough of it. I’m looking at every army Mantic are producing and just can’t decide what my next project should be.
AVP does look like fun. I might google it and check the price tag of the range.
I’ve never been big into WW2 from a gaming perspective, and that will never change.
Regarding Kings of War my interest is piqued. I wouldn’t mind picking up some Abyssal Dwarves and Basilleans along with the rulebook and immersing myself in the world of mantica, something new and interesting to read up on.
While I can appreciate that Mantic are trying to appeal to fantasy gamers by allowing use of peoples old warhammer armies for use in mass ranked battles now that Age of Sigmar has changed Warhammer Fantasy, I think the better path for Mantic to take would be to continue to come up with their own original, non-derivitative material. I am aware how long that previous sentence is. I think the Chaos Dwarves look great that Mantic did, cough, sorry, Abyssal Dwarves. Sure they take from the Archtype established by GW from their old abandoned army that Forge World lukewarmly resuscitated. From the background I have read on them and from what I have seen of the model range they seem somewhat original, though slightly derivative from the old gw range and newer fw stuff. That said its nice they have the Gargoyles and their own distinct look. The fact that demons come from the abyss in Mantica (so I believe, correct me if I am wrong) makes me hope the upcoming models will be usable with abyssal dwarves. Really makes them feel like evil people as opposed to chaosed up dwarves. I can just picture these guys living in a place like the Demon Ruins or Lost Izalith.
I like the Basileans, even though they derive from the Sisters of Sigmar and a little bit post AoS with some of the holy warriors with hammers (mainly a few characters), I like the originality of having paladin (knights) on foot and the angels available to the army too. I think the fact that these two forces are so different to the Elves and Dwarves which are fairly generic is what makes them a sale to me.
I also like the sound of a second abyss opening up from the lore in the boardgame. I’d kind of prefer if mantic went with a type of imagery a little gritty but still high fantasy along the lines of the first Dragon Age game with their range of models, that would be really cool.
With the Ophidians, I’d really like to see a human culture different to what we’ve seen with knights, or something like the Empire or Bretonnia. If they are descended from where the Empire of Dust is (Is that the right name for it?), I’m hoping for a less euro centric range of models, and less a rip off of the tomb kings. They should be distinct and look their own way. I’m never going to get tomb kings, but I might get something unique that mantic does. They need to be different enough in the game world as well and have different motivations to the undead led by whatshisname, Mhorgoth? Perhaps they can be a culture in their own right. I’m not saying they all have to be sentient skeletons with their own personalities, but there needs to be something a little bit more there to make them interesting and not just another mindless third party AI of an army. Maybe they are ancient barbarians with elements of ancient china and japan, warriros who still honour their codes of bushido or equivalent in death and honour them by voluntarily being cursed to undeath when their culture fell, perhaps dragon worshippers as well? Maybe they were given the ability to raise undead themselves and bestow will on some or in limited ways, like Shogun-Wights?
Regarding the human Ophidians, possibly Arabian inspired but changed enough to be fantastical as opposed to something lifted out of history. Something to do with snakes as well given the name.
Anyway, just my two cents.
A plant based or nature army is a possibility. Feed me Mantic, feed me now!
I love that mantic is planning on doing more for the Twilight Kin race. A swell as they are adding new elements to the game. I have an old dark elf army I haven’t used. Hoping that I can get it up and running with the Kings of War new addition as well as the skaven that I have. Looks very promising. Would love to see a viking style army in Kings of war as well since that is an era that I enjoy as well. A dragon style race would be sweet to see as well. I think it would give an interesting race to see on the battlefield.
As for the Desert war looks very interesting. I am not sure how many tanks they used in it but worth checking out for sure. Thanks you Mantic and Beasts of War for putting on this little contest. I will be keeping my channel tunned into this youtube channel. Same Beast time same beast channel.
Kings of war is looking better and better!
I haven’t actually played a game of King’s of War yet, but I have been watching some videos and reading through the free downloads. Since Mantic has said they are creating army lists for models they don’t create, I would love to be able to play with my Beastmen 🙂
The other thing I would like to see is heroes inside units instead of individual. Watched the demo and didn’t particularly like the heroes running around by themselves.
Id love to see a jungle amazon army, And not just for Bikini clad Models but also becuase i love the concept.
Been testing new rules…good to be back into a solid fantasy game…
Miss the removal of dead figures, but game hella solid…
I’d love to see how they handle or implement cross narrative campaigns where you are dungeon delving for a relic or item in dungeon saga that has significance in your KoW battles. I’d love to spend a weekend playing for example dungeon saga on the Saturday to kick off the narrative/story ending with a nice large battle on Sunday. All with a cool reason narrative reason for having the armies clash across the field. Good show from Mantic for supporting an idea like this.
I think it is really good that mantic have created lists to allow WFB players to continue playing a supported mass fantasy game. I also really like how justin has painted the AVP stuff and the flock box looks like a great bit of kit I may have to grab one for making scenery
With regards to Kings of War, I’m looking forward to watching the undead army come together. It’s a technique I would like to try out myself.
I’d like to see a kow army loosely based around Northern European mythology; lots of trolls, wolves and giants with a horde of hairy shield-biting warriors. It is something I’m thinking about building, if time and money allow.
Also, I’d like to see the magic rules expanded with spells that deal with illusion, elemental manipulation and the conjuring of strange creatures from beyond. I’d like to see spells that allow you to a small degree manipulate the scenery and your (or your opponents) army deployment. For example, that unit of goblins marching up the right flank suddenly turns out to be illusionary and they are in fact on the left flank dangerously close to your wizard. Or all of a sudden that forest in the middle of table starts to march towards your forces with the intention of giving them a kicking. That sort of tricksey shenanigans could be rather fun I imagine.
I’ve wanted to get into a fantasy game and either KOW or frostgrave seem to be the way to go.
The best thing about KoW is the flexibility of the lists. The fact that (essentially more) Not-WH lists are being introduced makes it even more attractive.
KOW2 may be the game that gets me back into wargaming on the large army scale.
I have been into miniature boardgames for a while now, but looking towards getting back into the large battle games, and this looks like it could be the one.
I look forward to the freedom within the game, and maybe I can look back to the past to gain inspiration for the future. I remember Goblin war giants, Undead Mammoths and Rhinos a large number of ‘vehicle’ based miniatures during the old days of fantasy Warriors, and look forward to the possibility if these ideas returning.
The other plus point is the cost, the main ‘Large Fantasy Battle Game’ readily available works out to be very expensive, so with this being on the opposite end of the spectrum it is all good.
I am awaiting the DS kickstarter, and being in the same universe, will be a great introduction to numerous people.
Nikodemus
i liked the idea of a ghost undead army on the diorama style bases might have to incorporate them into my now restively useless games workshop army and convert to the kings of war system should look pretty good
Kings of war look very interesting loved the weekender blog I shall definitely have to give this system a go now all I need now is sooner army.
I’ve noticed some new models on the Undead bit of the KOW website, quite like the necromancer guy. Cant wait to see the Kings of War Ratkin! as I do like my ratmens. Rats bursting out invading a city, a containment game/campaign! lurve the idea (even if cliche).
RE: The Africa Campaign discussion.
For me as much as he was a talented General, Patton was also a bit of a Butcher General, and his conduct did lead to Subordinate General Omar Bradley becoming his Superior in the chain of command. Patton never had to operate with the limitations of resources that the British did, so I don’t feel there’s ever been the same scope for balanced comparison.
Montgomery actually was appointed because Auchinleck’s replacement Gott was killed and never got to assume command when his transport plane was shot down. Senior command hindsight view that it was a lucky accident, and Monty did immediately set in place defenses where he predicted Rommel would attack, and executed an attack along a path the German’s hadn’t thought was possible.
Also the British Naval and air forces did a very good job of sinking the supply transports intended for the Africa Corp, the African campaign was not locked into ‘just’ land battles but had arms of all 3 main services involved. The British certainly did more in that regard then the Americans as American Navy was mostly Pacific and Atlantic battles.
Rommel got to establish his reputation when Germany was at it’s height regarding production and supply, and that it failed in 42/43, not only because of American and Patton’s involvement but the resources also diverted to Russia by the Germans, and the supply problems faced as mentioned above. It would have been interesting to see how Rommel performed in the latter stages of the War, but that’s a question history has as only a what if. Due to being injured himself when D-Day occurred and his conviction and death of treason against Hitler following that.
Lol how to cut your drugs with lloydy? I mean flock! FLOCK damnit…
Now if only anyone around me was playing KoW…
In reference to Kings of War, i have been playing Spartacus the board game so i would like to see an army themed around gladiators with lots of head swaps and weapon fit outs. The elite troops having a Praetorian guard look.
I have been getting my Ogres ready for Kings of war and so far they are really giving people a battering! Heres hoping to go to clash of kings in October! 😀
KoW is a great game. I’ve been playing it with cardboard bases and toys over them to simulate the different armies, thanks to the 2nd edition free rules. I feel that there will be a 3rd edition in the future because some elements are a little unbalanced, for example the flying units attacking behind. Also the war machines could be more powerful. anyway thanks Mantic for such a great game
Just had my first 2nd Edition Demo game of Kings of War last week and it was truly amazing!
It feels like to be within the old Warhammer Times and the rules are very easy to learn, streamlined and great fun! I will definately getting into KoW with Goblins i think.
I can’t wait for the release of the 2nd Edition :).
I love this idea of making mini-dioramas out of Kings of War units! Even if it doesn’t make the game more “realistic”, it sure will improve the look of things!
Ok BoW, you have me interested in KoW. I am one of the many seasoned warhammer players now looking for a new game to play. I am not sure what I think about the idea of no longer removing models from the tray when they die … but I am happy to give it a go. I do like the idea of dioramas, just trying to work out how to give the impression of a tightly packed wall of dwarf warriors with shields while only using a small number of actual models.
Loving the look of AVP, reminds me of Space Hulk, which I have some very fond memories of. Prometheus was ok but pales in comparison to Alien or Aliens.
As for KoW, I’m keen to see rules for my existing WoC army but I’m not yet convinced about the way units don’t get depleted by models dying. Also the restrictions on model count or rank width needs more work I think. Watched a few bat reps and it looks fairly good but
As a WHFB gamer of the last 25 years I’m finding it hard to jump ship and instead of looking for the benefits or better systems in KoW I’m currently looking at the rules thinking, it’s missing this or it doesn’t do that. Other than supporting GW armies what do you think is the next key difference that is better than GW and may help me make the transition?
I would like to see a variation on the Army of Men that would fit a Viking Style Barbarian Army, including Yeti’s and Giant’s and Fenris Wolves, and Polar Bears.
The armies bread in the cold north, with their Allies of the region raiding the south in there long boats
King of war 2nd Edition rules downloaded I have something to read in my sick bed and the ogre army list sweet I’ll dust of my that other game Ogden models and proxy
And use proxy goblins from lord of the rings game this looks much fun I think
The evil dwarves look really good also and loving the army of the dust humans
All in all a great replacement for the terrible harm done to mass battles by
The big corporate machine long live mantic games
At last, Kings of War finally enters the tables to stand as the right heir/brother for WHFB. Whil not still totally fn of the Mantica World, the game is just neat and the models havve really improved over the years. Mantic now stands a real chance to enter the hearts of gamers for good (not that Deadzone or Dreadball haven’l already manage to draw the attention (if not the money) of many players worldwide).
KoW : tested and approved. Eagerly waiting tfor the french version of the game now 🙂
Kow Sounds like it could be good one to pick up – the fixed bases and mini diorama’s could be really fun to make.
I’m itching to make an orc force for some reason.
Kings of War looks interesting and not just a WFB clone
I’ve been on the fence about Kings of War so far. With the ratkin rules coming out though I should probably just finish building my skaven and actually give it a try.
I’m hoping that the Abyssal models from Dungeon Saga: Dwarf King’s Quest are gonna make it into Kings of War. Though I don’t think there is anyone around here playing it. 🙁
Great Game.
We are very eager to get the rulebook. Then we can start to create our new KOW Armies.
In regard to KoW, I would consider an Ogre army where the diorama’s are made with hordes of goblins scattering about the legs of the Ogres. Maybe a few of the goblins would have been unlucky and ended up below an Ogre’s foot.
Genuinely liked the hologram idea and am seriously considering using it for my unpainted space hulk. kOw wise love the abyssal dwarfs. But would probably go for a volcanoes
Babylonian theme for the bases.
Morning!
I got my AvP set a few days ago but I must say I was not pleased with the Alien moldbit/lines.The work I´ll have to put in to make hands of the aliens look good…
On the other hand everything else was awesome, great quality tiles, many scenarios inside the book. The marines and Predators looks great. A definate runners up for board game of the year maybe?
On the KoW front, I want to se the “Evil” version of Basileans, that would be pretty awesome.
Hi beasts of war thanks for all you work in bringing us all the news about wargaming. I am keen after watching your videos on beasts of war to start a kings of war army!!!!
I think its great to see a game and game setting constantly expanding and growing. It means that the games never feel stagnant and there’s always something new to discover. It’s also great to see a company continue to support a game throughout and keep up that commitment to the players. Plus good that chaos/evil dwarves are getting a proper range and rules.
Thanks
Finn
I’d really like to see rules for customising your own hero characters in kings of war. Either to use your dungeon saga heroes in the main game, or just creating a hero designed after yourself, perhaps with special rules/skills which could affect certain units in your army (shooting doctrine for dwarves for example) n
All with appropriate points costs of course!
Gambit I’m fairly sure (at least as part of the KS) that they will be providing KoW stats for all of the Dungeon saga contents.
Stoked to see KoW pushing the levers forward and hitting full steam ahead! Started on an undead army and a basilean force…but the kickstarter has me wanting nature and abyssal too, and then they go and start putting out all these new lists!!
What would I like to see from KoW? 2 things-
1. The campaign (ooh yeh!) and a system to tie in DS games with KoW in chain of games would be epic.
2. I’d like to see an online tool with free counseling services to assist the hopeless addicts with their KoW multiple army addiction 😉
Hey Justin, I like what you’ve done with your AvP models – would putting a shiny varnish over the bases make them ping more?
I only recently got back into miniature gaming. I was effectively priced out of the hobby in my youth by GW. Now much older and finally with a bit of disposable cash I decided to get back in about a year ago. I bought a Warhammer starter box Elves and Skaven then went back to the GW website looking to expand my collection, found their prices still to be unattractive and found kings of war and Mantic when searching the web for cheaper alternatives and I’ve not looked back.
I’ve since backed the KoW 2nd edition, Dungeon Saga and Deadzone Infestation and looking forward the upcoming warpath KS.
I now have a decent sized Orc army along with an elf army, and when the KS delivers more Elves, an Ogre army and an Abyssal one. I was a little diappointed that the Twilight Kin reboot was pushed back as part of 2nd as thematically Dark Elves are my favourite fantasy race. So obviously for future a brand spanking new range of Twilight Kin models would be top of my list.
Obviously they are concentrating on making Warhammer armies mostly compatible with KoW but of the new lists The herd with centaurs and forest dwellers probably appeals to me as it hasn’t existed in the mass fantasy battle arena.
Happy weekend! I hope I see some rules for my corpse cart. I have a lot of old gw undead I plan on using for KOW but was disappointed to see no rules for it yet. I do understand their has been talk in the forums but will be happy once something official has been decided. Rommel was the superior general. He had the respect of his men for his military victories and for leading by example. His enemy feared and respected him and for good reason. Hitler had him Rommel kill himself for suspecting him in the failed bomb plot. Rommel was an important War hero so they didn’t want the public to know of his forced suicide or that he was considered a traitor by the nazi state. He was a bold general willing to embrace the principles of blitzkrieg which gained him his early successes in the invasion of France. I believe his failure in Afrika was from shortage of petrol and forces. He made great gains with what little he had and his defensive tactics were creative and effective. He did not follow nazi doctrine and thought little of Hitler.
I hope you are enjoying playing avp, not like all the kickstarter backers who are still waiting to get what we paid for 2 years ago. The box you have IS a kickstarter exclusive Prodos have sent out to shops instead of supplying us (they have over 9000 boxes listed for sale on their webstore-all ks exclusives supposed to be in OUR hands before the retail verion hit the shelves). We have been totally screwed by prodos over this kickstarter, you probably have MY box on your table.
Re: Kings of War. Having only ever played ‘rank and file’ battles in 15mm, I would be interested to hear your thoughts, pros and cons, about 28mm. Looking forward to watching the battle reports after your dioramas are complete 🙂
Good stuff. Thanks again for helping to kick of my day
I’d never played KoW or WH Fantasy but all the hype around AoS got my attention. Luckily a mate of mine has 2 WHF armies already so it was easy to try both. We tried both and I have to say that I much preferred KoW and am now looking at getting an army of my own. I’ll be very interested to see how your “get the army done quick” VLOG goes as well as that’s always been the hurdle I’ve struggled with.
Best get a FlockBox ordered as well 🙂
Still waiting for my AVP KS stuff to arrive here in Western Australia
Still waiting for my AVP KS stuff to arrive here in Western Australia
Warren! I am looking forward to your undead Vlog, that is what I have been wanting to do with my undead (I even asked about it a little while ago in the forums). I finally got into DS and KOW through the most recent KS, but want to see more crossover between the two. I understand that there will be a few. I also want to see more images of armies/cities that aren’t yet official armies to trigger the imagination. Finally, I want to see the campaign, because I am excited to sit down and play my first game.
Hello, If the Ratkin were once slaves to the Abyssal Dwarves it makes good fluff sense to have remnant Ratkin as subjected warriors. Might be a creative addition to the scurrying rats in the dark dank dungeon diorama blocks you make. I initially thought Mantic might make the Ratkin as a subservient army option that had Abyssal Dwarf handlers driving units. I think the Mantic Abyssal Dwarf Army could have a group of Ratkin slaves with a slave handler and pet in addition to the Orc slaves and handler unit. I would love to convert my Skaven figures for Mantica and use the Abyssal dwarves with a Half breed overlord to drive a mixed Abyssal Dwarf/Ratkin KoW Army.
Sounds like a good idea for the Ratkin to have one major enemy. I like the idea of the abyssal dwarf army using Ratkin slaves..
Glad to see that prizes will only be going to thoughtful comments going forward.
Smeeging Ipad not posting properly………
I have an ongoing KOW2 project I am slowly working on. I ordered some extra odds & ends from DS & KOW 2 KS for a project army called “the legion of the Last Tyrant King!”
At the moment the army consists of:
1xDS Blaine – General
1x 20 man unit of DS Blaines on Foot (with converted shields)
1 x 20 man unit of DS Legendary Orlaf axemen
2 x 12 man units of Warmahordes Blighted Ogryn Warspears( converted with weapons and shield combos)
2 x 6 man units of Warmahordes Blighted Ogryn Warspears( converted with Bows)
1 x 5 man unit of KOW mounted Blaines.
I will attempt to post some pics when I get the project goingwhich will be as soon as all my mantic KS stuff arrives my project goes from a theoretical to actual minis…..
but as to whether I’ll actually set them on the table,….well the closest KOW players I have are 600kms away, so I think I will have a brilliant project army to look at and tinker with if I find interesting models to join this thematic army I intent to create….. I will be basing the Last Tyrant King’s Legion as still holding the fortress at Tyris’ Gate….. maybe I’ll call it Tryant”s gate instead…. unless there is a better place to garrison the legion??
If anyone has a good understanding of the mantica fluff please let me know
I just got an Abyssal Dwarf Army and extra set of half breeds for KoW. They use a very dense plastic, looking forward to getting my rulebook, from the GenCon special. I’d be likely to just double down on the Abyssal Dwarfs if I won a box.
KoW KS backer, looking to re-field good old armies of that other game… It’s been decades (really) since my “Dogs of War” have seen action. Also looking at the Basilean army to re-stat my knightly army : pegasus mounted knights as stand-ins for Elohi? Would like something more fitting though…
Also DS backer. Can’t wait to get all those nice Abyssals… might have to craft more hellish game boards to suit them.
Anyhow, long live DS, long live Kow… may Mantic always stay in touch with its gamers and their interests.
Once upon a time, I was the advocate for Angels & Paladins and Atlantean & Naga armies in Kings of War. I stopped being an advocate for either of these concepts when I saw Mantic’s execution of these ideas.
*If* the Succubi kit any good, then that would be evidence that Mantic is at least capable of making an army that I’d want to buy, but I’m not holding my breath.
not tried KoW but played warhammer years ago, but the guys at our club are seriously starting to play KoW and it looks worth a try.
would love to see an army that perhaps has war mammoths introduced, maybe a human ice warrior mountain dweller type force where they use war mammoths with Howdahs etc, plus maybe sabre tooth tigers as individual monsters, and maybe cavalry that ride on polar bears, that would be cool
If it helps, all the alien stalkers have letters inside the sockets, and also on the end of the arms/legs so you don’t make any mistakes
I can’t say I was ever taken with Warhammer, I did however purchase a unit of Dwarf Ironwstch regiment to see how well they might convert for use as Squats.
However, the more I read and hear about Kings of War, with the idea of scenic/diorama unit bases has led me to rethink and maybe go for a small Dwarf army.
On a side note, I’m so glad you managed to “character build” Justin into basing his units, I don’t think I could have looked at those awful black blocks much longer
Keep up the good work lads
Lots of discussion going on here about Kings of War which is good to see, I’ve been tempted but the thought of buying a whole new army is overwhelming. I notice a comment about using a Roman themed army in Kings of War, I have the start of a Roman Army that I’ve had sitting around for a long time (Salute was at Olympia!). I was going to use them in SAGA, but I’ve gone off the game, I’ve got the Hail Cesear rules to try as well, if they play well in Kings of War that might give me another option.
For other armies how about allowing Wendigo in, I’ve got a lovely Wendigo army from Croc Games that is sitting doing nothing at the moment.
I’m completely new to KoW and have just checked out the armies on the Manticore homepage. The ogres are by far the most appealing faction but I like the story and stylisation of the abyss. I’d therefore love to see some abyssal ogres! Not sure where the human armies are on their homepage
I love Bolt Action and can’t wait to add some warplanes to my army. The new rules will add a lot of fun to the game.
I’m planning on starting KoW myself, with a small (no pun intended!) Dwarf force. You always tend to see these war games & this hobby in general, being very male dominated. Even looking over the Mantic Dwarf range all I see is a vast amount of male Dwarfs. There is even a Dwarf king, but where I ask is the Dwarf Queen?! My Dwarf army will be lead by the Dwarf Queen of Mantic! It will be a small step (pun intended!) towards forging better gender equality on the table top!
-Also, I have to say Justin seems like he really knows his stuff about the new AvP game. He has a very nice style to explaining things and I think he’d make for a great rules teacher for AvP or any game for that matter. I just like his style of explaining things.
Justin, I love your “Tactical Over View” painting idea as a concept, however I did enjoy Prometheus.
In anticipation of Kings of War, I’ve hauled out old GW boxes I bought when 8th edition Vampire Counts dropped and started assembling them! As well as Wargames Factory Skeletons (for bowmen) and a ton of Mantic zombies.
I haven’t done this much work on my fantasy undead in over half a decade! It’s really reminding me how much I love the genre and army concept.
Wow this week’s show had a TON of great stuff in it. The AVP box contents do look amazing. I know that if I had been a backer and was still waiting on my stuff I’d be pretty torn seeing this. On the one hand, it’s lovely stuff so there’s excitement there. On the other, the fact that it’s been pretty much available to everyone who didn’t pledge first would really chap my behind. Nothing to do with Beasts of War having it mind you, but there it is.
Kings of War is a game I never really considered until I played the Dwarf King’s series. Once I had some of those figures in my possession I ended up ordering a starter Dwarf/Undead box. Ended up pledging on 2nd ed campaign too. I’ll be looking forward to the series about making armies quickly, because if I’m ever to get KoW to the table and get folks interested…I’ll be building both of mine all on my own first.
Mention of a KoW campaign that changes the world over time is an interesting idea. I believe the folks at Vesper-On have done something similar with Carnevale.
Finally…those bases. Justin has every right to slap Lloyd and Warren in the heads HARD. If it were a studio army he was working on that’d be one thing, but they’re his models, and disagree or not with him…messing with his personal stuff is pretty off-side. I have to commend him on his restraint on camera.
I wouldn’t get too worked about of the basing of Justin’s miniatures. I wouldn’t be surprised if it was just a little “TV Magic” skit they planned out to show off the new device. Even if it wasn’t, I am sure they know Justin well enough to surprise him. I am not the biggest proponent of basing, but even I have to admit the static grass does look really good on those dwarves’ bases much better than the plain black. The Paint scheme pops even more since they are basically contrary colors too.
With the halfling heroes introduced to Mantica in the Dungeon Saga game, I’d like to see a range of halflings for Kings of War!
Hello Folks, Hope all is well. Again great show thank you. Now KoW have a rat man army from you know who, but what I would love to see is an army based on cats (not house cats) but lions and panthers , plus tigers as well. Dress them in say eastern armor like from India or china. Can you see ranks of young lions with shields and spears lead by a huge manned older lion. Than ranks of lance armed panthers, with female lion archers. Heavy armored tiger knights, and skirmisher cheetahs on the flanks. Please tell me that is cool or what. See you’ll next week have to run , thank you for the fun and have a great day folks, Pepsidan 🙂
I have nothing to add to the discussion but yes, @warzan I appreciated the fact your tried my idea (and yes, I’m still in my jammies). I’ll gladly have a look at the comments because there’s a lot less stupid onliners in here!
I really liked @dignity ‘s idea for the AVP minis but I would have gone with a black primer and then a drybrush. They look great Justin!
* I meant one-liners, not onliners… Oups.
It’s kinda working, isn’t it? 🙂
Had a good look at all the AvP stuff at GamesExpo, really lovely, but as with all nice stuff I’m a gamer and want to see how it plays.
why doesn’t this site ever keep me logged in and/or kick me out after I login to my profile page?
Nice hope for more Kow reports and army tips.
I prefer my dwarfs over the Abysssssel ones.
Hope there will be again fanmade historical lists as in KoW 1.0.
Gen. Patton once said ” If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking” G.S Patton is one of my hero’s I served in the 3rd Armor Div. but for anyone to think Gen. Montgomery was anything other than brilliant would be a huge mistake. He held Egypt and the Suez canal and threw Rommel back at El Ali-men. Sure “Patton the movie” wants us to think it was all about the US Army doing the heavy lifting but the British carried the load for 3 years before we got there. Credit were credit is due.
Having backed the dungeon saga kickstarter and eagerly awaiting it’s arrival I was wondering if it is possible to use the characters to lead a small warband and gradually build up into a full scale army using the Kings of War rules?
If so I think it would be a great way to start a campaign as the characters gain more renown or infamy dependant on their allegience. What do you guys think?
Kings of War definitely looks interesting and I would turn to it long before AoS if I ever pick up a fantasy game. Granted I am not sure if I would go Elves or forces of nature. My of my other games I go for a more “bad ass humans” approach so would like something different. Nature wise I really like the concept and some of the models, but wish they had some wood elves in the mix (but not being the main part of the army just a unit type… perhaps their archers/some of the druids being wood elves). Elves wise I more like the nature attuned style of elves instead of haughty high elf feel. I’m strange I know…
For a new army for Mantic seeing the Naiads perhaps an aquatic race that has a vast under sea kingdom, but has not bothered in the affairs of the land folk until recently. However the wars have become impossible to ignore and thus they have begun to rise from the ocean depths to help bring the world in balance (well balance according to them). Perhaps give them some unique water based movement abilities or something. Not 100% original, but you could really run off to make some unique water races (has anyone really used sea elves in a miniature game before? Or Nagas?). I would not try to use some old human civilization as a basis for their looks but try to come up with something unique that isn’t just sea shells and coral (but integrates such things as needed).
Great job as always guys
That was a great show! From beginning to end.
I really like the look of AVP and the unboxing has really made me think about getting it.
I love the idea of KOW mostly because of the diorama basing. I love the idea of putting together something that is appealing to look at and still be functional for the game. I love the ideas that Warran talked about and I’m really looking forward to seeing what you guys do and how you do it.
I don’t presently play or collect any WWII miniature games but I’m looking forward to oriskany’s series as I think the desert campaign(s) were perhaps the most formative at least for the western front.
Thanks guys. Have to say again that was one of your best shows.
From reading a few posts, I am liking the sound that it feels like the old WH days.
It has been a long time since I was into WH, and it was the constant increase in cost that made me move away, along with the yearly books releases that were incompatible with the previous versions.
Mantic are moving things in the right direction with this game.
I bought an undead army while V2 was on kickstarter and I was dissapointed to see we only get one battle engine and no big grobbly beasties. I know its a game about large units clashing, but I feel a game like this benefits from a selection of big special centerpiece models. Each faction should have a choice, even if they can only field one or two at a time. I was hoping for a dracolich or something.
While I echo your disappointment that the stock Undead army list doesn’t have any Monster-class units, it does include a mounted “undead wyrm” and mounted “undead dragon”.
The Empire of Dust undead faction does have monster class units (and my skeletal mammoth will be living there), and your undead models from Mantic will fit into that army list with no problem.
lawnor, that is how I am thinking, like the days of the old Grenadier miniatures, with Undead Dragon, War mammoth, War Rhino and a Giant. My favorite would have had to be the Goblin War giant.
I hope that KOW2 has the ability for these type of units to be added, seeing as they are including other races that are not their standard.
Undead dragons, undead mammoths, undead rhinos, and undead giants will all fit into the Empire of Dust faction I think. Just not into the basic Undead faction. 🙁
The goblin army can use giants, so the Grenadier war giant would fit in nicely. And it’s still being sold by Mirliton. http://www.mirliton.it/
I’m supposed to demo KoW w/ my friend in the next couple weeks. I have Empire and Dwarfs, though it’s not all a perfect, exact proxy match.
The one thing I’d definitely like to see happen in KoW is to let the game normalize after a while, before they borrow too much from Warhammer in regards to races, lists, etc. Maybe add a faction that still separates from Warhammer, like druidic shapeshifting Orcs or Gnomes or Undead Elves who are Good aligned.
I’m definitely interested to see how Twilight Kin get re-worked.
Also, I know the paint scheme you are atlking about for the undead. I was tempted to do it myself, but I think you need to do more to the models. I think the weapons need to be painted iron still. Once you start down that route banners and some clothing also asks to be painted as real. Then perhaps the fleshy guys need painting real too. One of the reasons to paint is to enjoy painting. One of the reasons to own models is to own cool looking models. Lets say they release a big shiny model for the undead and you want to add it and paint it properly. Then what? You have one non ghostly model only in your army. It starts to look a little odd. I think the ghostly theme could look cool, but you need to think beyond it to later when you expand. I am certainly looking forward to see what you do (Including full guides and paint shopping lists please) as i have yet to paint my army. Got too much warmahordes to paint first..
I’m considering using the airbrush to paint everything bone or palid flesh, hand paint the clothes and weapons and then dunk in an army painter dip. I’ve never used the stuff though so I’m a little suspicios of the stuff. If you want fast results its something you could try instead of shading and highlighting by hand.
Oh boy! I wish I could win this =)
My girlfriend and I have been building our armies for a while now. I have Abyssal Dwarfs and she the Basileans . I think the new book has raised the game to a whole new level! I’m eagerly awaiting our kickstarter to show up with my Undead allies and her Basilean and nature reinforcements!!!
Meow
Kings of War looks interesting. Always wanted to get into Warhammer Fantasy Battles. It’s techincally what got me into the hobby. But i never got any further than painting up some Vampire Counts skeletons. Because nobody around here play Fantasy Battles. It’s all about the 40k…. But with the pricing of Kings of War i might just get a couple of armies and let people borrow an army to play with.
As an avid Warhammer Fantasy player I tried a couple of game of Kings of War in the last couple of weeks. And I must say I’m thrilled by the game, it plays really well and you can easily squeeze in two games in an evening. Great to see the old warhammer feel back in a game. Can’t wait for my rulebook, hopefully it drops on my doormat asap 🙂
The only thing that’s missing for me at the moment is a great backstory behind the game. I always liked it very much to play with big characters from history, those guys add a little extra flavour to the games. Hope the fluff is good in the big rulebook. 🙂
I hope the game is gonne be a great succes so Mantic keeps on supporting the game, because there are a lot of old mass battle gamers out there. Keep up the good work Mantic!
Cheers
Kings Of War 2nd edition was a great surprise for me. I was thinking that will be simple without strategy-depth but at the end it was really strategic , creates the need to re-match your last game.
Would probably start with undead for kings of war. Lots of skeletons and zombies to begin with since you can never have too many. After that would expand with some soul reavers and revenants for mobility and striking force. Characters would be next with the set of four to provide some leadership.
For Kings of war, I’d love to see the lizard army, their take on it. But one I’d love to see added would be hobgoblins. Old school hobgoblins. That would be tremendous. Can’t wait to get KOW 2nd ed!
I’m wondering if the game supports skirmish type game play….I know there is Age of Sigmar but I do not like the models and Games Workshop is not for me.
So will KoW support skirmish level play?
If MAntic are producing lists for defunct armies I would love to see conversions for Rackhams Age of Ragnarok minis. I bought into Circle Orboros for Hordes because I missed my fantasy warewolf army. I would love to use the Wolfen army again but I don’t feel that the Ogre army fits the bill.
Ooh, great episode! I’ve read a lot accounts of army leaders. If i recall correctly Monty was at the staff college when called upon; following the varying fortunes of Wavell and Auchinleck. The impression i get is that he was a bit big-headed but one of the first of the allies to get a good grip on the concept of ‘combined arms’. Patton certainly seemed to be a ‘hard charger’ in Europe, (when told to halt the advance to conserve fuel, he would send forward reconnaissance units to contact and then ‘pile on’, thus keeping the advance moving. ‘Hunters of the Air’ by Charles Whiting seems to infer that Patton would like to keep the successes and transfer the failures to other other Army groups. Desert warfare ebbs and flows according to supply train; the greater your success and advance, the longer and more tenuous your sully chain becomes…
hoping to win something someday . . .
Better make a substantive post related to KoW then. It was specifically stated in the video that comments on the topics mentioned would be the only ones considered for the drawing.
I’m really looking forward to the new army lists for KoW and version 2.0. Have to find a home for all my Empire and Bretonnians.
The 2nd ed KoM lists are already up, unless you’re referring to the beta test rules. http://manticblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/kingdomofmen.pdf
Wow, AvP looks awesome. Great weekender. I like how Justin did his AvP miniatures, because I can see getting them ready to play very quickly and not wanting to over think it. I might try Warren’s idea or something similar using metallic paint with a color glaze. Again, I want game time.
Kings of War is great, we are currently having a big tournament and eveyone is loving it !
I would be ok with a clockwork/steam powered automaton army for KoW. If Mantic were smart they would make the models interchangeable so you could swap the torso from the ‘infantry’ kit with the the legs or the ‘cavalry’ kit for example to give you near endless combinations. They would play a little like the Undead with NV of -/X to represent they don’t waver. Maybe they would not have Inspiring characters (unless the characters were mechanic type people who fix them up rather than inspire them).
Do where they would fit in the fluff however.
I’m very curious to see where the Basilean faction in Kings of War is going to. With Warhammer mini’s changing quite a lot in terms of design recently, I’m hoping that Mantic will expand the Basilean line with more peasant like militia and diorama size warmachines/heroes. I really think there’s a lot left to explore in terms of the ‘human’ army that the Basileans represent. Going to keep us KoW fans going for a few years!
I have been crunching numbers while waiting for my Abyssal force to be produced and sent. I plan to use several troops of Flamebearers to harass the enemy while Lower Abyssal, Moloch, and Succubus regiments/hordes do the heavy hitting.
I think my Lower Abyssals will generally follow the red demonic art style Mantic has been using, but the Succubi will resemble the Dark Seducers from the “Shivering Isles” expansion to “TES IV: Oblivion.” Since I was one of the lucky few to get my pledge from the CSM Demons and Devils campaign, I also plan to use the Horned Devil and High Priestess as a Lord of Lies and Abyssal Temptress.
It’d be great to win the KoW set as I’m still waiting for my Kickstarter. :\
I was originally not that bothered about AvP but having seen the game I am definitely tempted.
I think Monty doesn’t get the credit he deserves and have always had the impression that Patton cared more for his reputation than the lives of men under his command.
Just signed up for the Stonehaven Halflings Kickstarter, so hoping that Mantic release a KoW army for Halflings soon!
It sounds like some of the beta rules cover human/halfling allies. I am tempted as well by the Burnville Troops set. I’m just not sure what niche they would fill unless as a small skirmishing troop with a combination of ranged sling attacks and a lower melee enhanced by Stealth and/or Ensnare rules.
best thing Mantic did was stop trying to copy or feel like other rule systems. Result is it is a better system for it.
AVP minis are looking great.
I like the look from @dignity s wash scheme. I might try it with a light grey base and a couple of black washes ( when I get my copy I paid for 2 years ago that is:( )
Shame that my enthusiasm has been been reduced by what I consider poor treatment by Prodos towards us kickstarter backers.
For KOW I’d like a neutral barbarian/Viking type army or maybe Celts being Al celty
I love that for every misstep that GW makes Mantic goes in the right direction. I love regimented ffantasy armies and I was planning on getting into WH but now Mantic look to be offering a far better alternative.
I’m a big fan of Dreadball, and while it’s a scifi game, I think two of the teams would make great armies in KoW.
The Astarians, I thought would be fun. A very old race comes back down from thier lofty towers to help rebalance any power shifts created during or after the summer campaign. Lots of female models which would be nice, but a very old, very powerful race with their own unique agenda sounds like too much fun not to had.
The Rebels is another. Change that to be a random band of displaced creatures, gnolls, kobolds, centaurs, satyrs, you name it. They’ve all come together to survive from being hunted by every man and his dog.
Scenery, I think someone else mentioned scenery as well.
There used to be a GW army book for bands of mercenaries from many different races all working together as a single force. Can’t remember the name of it off hand, since I never actually owned it. Mantica could benefit from that kind of army too.
Oh yeah! The Dogs of War. That was a good way to get the other humans into the game.
It’s good to see so much interest in Kings of War. I see that a few people are mentioning wanting army lists that are already in KoW, either existing armies or the new armies that are being playtested for the future expansion book. So, to wet people’s appetite and show that they don’t need to wait to try out KoW, here’s a rough list of the armies.
A thing to remember about Kings of War is that you can use models from ANY manufacturer, and descriptions about some units are vague enough to encompass any number of monsters/beasts/etc.
Each army has an alignment: Good, Evil, and Neutral.
A Good army can use allied units from any other Good or Neutral army.
An Evil army can use allied units from any other Evil or Neutral army.
A Neutral army can use allied units from any army!
Elf Armies: Good
There are different elf factions mentioned, so you can use any “good” elves. Includes chariots, smaller dragons, and tree spirits (think treemen, etc).
Forces of Basliea: Good
Paladins, female paladins, angel things, basic human units, chariots, phoenix, griffin.
Dwarf Armies: Good
Brock riders (large badgers), rifles, elementals, various cannons, “drilling devices”, “fighting vehicles”, “large beasts”.
Kingdoms of Men: Neutral
Perhaps the most versatile list for theming an army. You can use any fantasy or historical figures that you want, if they fit the unit type. Army includes a number of war engines, “beasts of war” (ambiguous, so you can use what models you want), “winged beasts”, and chariots.
I’ve currently got 200 ancient Greek for an army, although I’m struggling to find armoured ancient Greeks. 🙁
Forces of Nature: Neutral
Includes a new amphibious race called Naiads, “beasts of nature”, salamanders, hydras, “forest shamblers”, centaurs, elementals, “spirits of the wild”, eagles, but no war engines. A list limited by your imagination where models are concerned!
Ogre Armies: Neutral
Ogres. Ogres with black powder weapons too. They have giants, “mammoths”, and units of “red goblins”. No war engines, although a ballista can be stuck on the mammoth.
Forces of the Abyss: Evil
Demons, succubi, hellhounds, imps, and a few others things. Has a few units that can be made up of any other races, because they have been captured into tortured slavery.
Abyssal Dwarfs: Evil
Evil dwarves. Includes slave orcs, golems, and something that sounds like dwarf centaurs.
Goblin Armies: Evil
Goblins, trolls, giants, weird war machines, etc.
Orc Armies: Evil
Includes trolls, giants, “orclings”, “fight wagons”, and chariots.
Undead Armies: Evil
Skeletons, ghouls, vampires, wights, wraiths, mummies, zombie trolls (no regen, cos they are dead!), werewolves, “undead wyrm”, “undead dragon”.
Twilight Kin: Evil
Evil elves. A “work in progress” unfinished list at the moment.
Ratkin: Evil
Rat man army list currently in playtesting. Has various contraptions and units.
League of Rhordia: Neutral
Human and halfling army list currently in playtesting.
The Herd: Neutral
Beastman army list currently in playtesting. Satyrs, centaurs, minotaurs, owlbears, “giant beasts”, elephants/rhinos/etc, lycans, chariots, etc.
Empire of Dust: Evil
Undead army list currently in playtesting. Everything from the basic Undead army, and more! Giant undead scorpions, worm riders, bone giants, “reanimated behemoths”, undead dragons, chariots.
Varangur (aka Shattered Clans): Evil
Evil human army list currently in playtesting. Cave trolls, wolves, chimera, chariots, jabberwock, cave monsters. Ice themed, Viking themed, barbarian themed, etc.
Salamanders: Good
Lizard people army list currently in playtesting. Elementals, sprites, “rhinosaurs”, and other stuff.
The Brotherhood: Good
Human army list currently in playtesting. Knights and their retainers. Includes some Naiad units, water elementals, and various types of cavalry.
Link for the armies in playtesting: https://manticforum.com/forum/kings-of-war/kings-of-war-2-beta/230101-new-army-lists-for-playtesting-updated-16-08-2015-to-1-7
Anyone coming into Kings of War from Warhammer needs to remember that they are different games, with different rules. Magic plays a very minor part in the game.
I might actually be tempted to collect some historical wargaming 28mm minis just so I can have the option for allied Greek Hoplites, Anglo-Saxon shieldwalls, or Norse berserkers. I imagine that the Greeks would look best modeled as orderly ranks, the shieldwall clustered together a bit, and the berserkers as a bit of a mob.
Waiting on my Abyssal Dwarves to come from the KOW Kickstarter. I plan to make these a little bit of a hybrid lot incorporating some evil fire salamanders and the epic Chimera (Mierce Miniature mini) from the neutral Forces of Nature army list. Oh and bye the way…pick me 🙂
Prometheus wasn’t awful! I really like the minis for Kings of War, and I’m planning on playing fantasy and KoW when I get my kickstarter armies. My biggest issue was when they decided to remove banners and musician, I liked the options, I feel that (although I think the new magic stuff was a great addition) the game might be oversimplified. I guess I’ll have to wait and see. I just found out we have a tournament over here in Dallas, TX (at Madness Games and Comics or Texas Toy Soldier, I don’t think they’ve finalized the venue), so I am looking forward to giving it a go.
I plan to retain banners and musicians in my units anyway if they are provided with such. I may give each Regiment a different banner for variety. If I make the regiments into dioramas, the musicians will definitely stay just in case the rules change again.
All this kings of war coverage is getting me excited for the new book to come out. Maybe I’ll finally paint my orc and undead armies that I got in the first kickstarter. I have this winter theme paint scheme for the undead kind of like the undead wights in a game of thrones. I also wanted a Summer like them for my orcs with reds and Oranges. But come to think of it maybe that’s more fall. I was trying to go for a winter vs summer theme for my armies.
I have a pretty giant beastmen army that I really haven’t had much chance of using. Does Mantic have any plans for that type of Army? I’ve seen some discussions on the forums, but couldnt find anything official. Every world needs a giant army of Minotaurs!
I’ve been super excited with the release of the new armies in beta test for KoW, I’ve already submitted my second Varangur BATREP, and they’ve only been released for 3 days. I’ll be demoing at a convention in two weeks, and I would love to have a dwarf starter army. It’s one I don’t yet have, but I do have 9 other 1K armies now.
I am so looking forward to Kings of War filling the fantasy regiment gaming void.
I really enjoy playing KoW, currently its my favourite game.
What would improve my enjoyment of the game even further (if thats possible) would be to read some novels set in the Mantica world. I would like for Mantic to consider commissioning a few novels. I think Ronny would be surprised how popular they would be.
Another great show guys. You’ve driven me to start Bolt Action. Great job!
As i’ve pledged on the KoW Kickstarter i will already get a Gamer Edition Rulebook but i would be happy to give one to a good friend to get him also involved.
I really do love the Kings of War army design for ogres.
I’m a KS backer and I’ve already received my pdf of the 2nd Edition Kings of War book and it’s beautiful, not to mention that I love the rules.
My one bone with it at the moment is that some of the armies seem to look a bit motley, with the individual units coming from KS sometimes lacking a unified and coherent theme. Take the ogres, for example. The new mage fits the old ones quite well. The brutes, however, have acompletely different facial structure and body structure (rounder faces, longer legs). I like the brutes on their own, but paired with the older ogres, they just look odd.
I wish they could focus on specific armies in future Kickstarters, to allow for a more unified design and feel.
Or they could release mercenaries, where unified looks aren’t an issue.
Love the King of Wars segment ! Other games did too much heroes riding bigger and larger models releases for all the races. I hope King of Wars will continue keeping these to a minimum rather than the norm and keep rank and file at the core of the game.
Emphasis on solid core of rank and file units with heroes acting as support is one of the main selling points of KoW to me.
Not that i have much in the way of completed projects, but i happen to like the idea of making a diorama of ranked units. It makes setting up the game and playing the game easier. You now have a bunch of really sweet display pieces for the shelves of your gaming cave. I personally think its a nice option to have. i like the idea of having a choice and being allowed to decide for yourself what its you want for your hobby. That being said i am not sure how i feel about how much more time it takes to make a diorama like that seeing as i barely have the time to work on the projects i have in the pipeline.
For Kings of War, I would love to see an intense faction hate fest between opposing forces. Then, allies being pulled into the conflict. My gaming preference is story and narrative battles. Why are the armies killing each other?
For example, Dwarfs vs. Abyssal Dwarfs. This might seem generic. However, my interest is in having the Dwarfs gain alliance with Basilean. And an escalation of alliances on both sides. For me, team play would really add to the fun of playing the game. This would play out through a campaign of battles with results of each battle effecting how the alliances build, weaken or strengthen between battles.
Anyway, Kings of War has a lot of interest for me.
@justin: Don’t let someone force you to do what he thinks is right! By basing your objective markers I think Lloyd and Warren should be forced to base the entire rest of your army.
@john and the whole WW2 and German military leaders thing. There was a reason for Göring or any other in the Luftwaffe not being a high promoted General… simply there was no Luftwaffe up until 1935. So who should do the job after rebuilding the German Air Force? Of course fromer WWI pilots. There was no chance for promotions the “normal” way. There was no Air Force from 1918 until 1935. So they took someone well known and loyal to the Nazis.
And Rommel? Well I think most of it is Myth. But he was highly respected by his soldiers. And he had the luck to stay in the Reichswehr during the “Weimarer Republik”. His glamour faded as the supplies in Africa gone short and he had to retreat. The lack of invading Malta decided the whole war in Africa. The Brits had a great outpost or “Immobile Aircraft Carrier” in the middle of the Mediterranean.
Looking forward to seeing what Mantic make of “Evil Humans” in KoW. Hopefully more nasty evil cultists rather than massive barbarians.
They’re right, Prometheus was WAAAY better than the AVP movies, they were pretty awful bastardised versions of books. Terribly cast and generally considered to not exist by most Alien Canon buffs 😛
North Africa campaign in WWII has a lot of different aspects. The three Generals have similarities and differences. Of course, their differences are marked. Personally, I see their primary difference being how they saw risk and how they approached risk. There might be other ways of characterizing their differences.
I am not an expert. So this is just my impression of the three.
Montgomery was perhaps the most risk averse and worked hard to mitigate risk through careful preparation. I believe that he saw the long game being playing out through attrition.
Rommel seems to have handled risk by making it the enemy’s problem. An offensive stance, quick, flexible and decisive actions. Perhaps taking advantage an aggressive and unpredictability in his strategy and tactics.
Patton was perhaps more like Rommel than than his was like Montgomery. My sense was Patton knew tank warfare better than his peers. He was the right person for the job and it fell into place for him.
They were all jerks as far as I can tell. But I think that they needed to be beyond confident or arrogant – absolute command and able to picture the entire theater.
It might be interesting to use Sun Tzu’s Art of War and rate each of these Generals against each other on the various aspects of Sun Tzu’s writing.
Seems like a good time to paint up those mantic dwarfs I bought ages ago.
I do like it that mantic is opening the gates for old WHF players but I fear a little bit that this will cause the same issue I had with WHF to begin with. The huge starting costs. I know mantic minis are way cheaper and you can use almost anything to bring down the costs. But to be fair we all want to have a descent looking army and if your oppenent has a 500 euro army it isn’t fun to field it against your 60 euro army.
Also most players do not want to play against a small starter army like in WHF. I know this is more of a community issue then a game issue.
Still I am tempted to try out KoW and I can find a couple of players who are willing to start with me from zero.
Very intrigued by the fact we can use historical armies for KoW. Might have to give that a try
Currently working hard on my ogres for kow with some abyssal dwarf allies… love the ally system in this game.
KOW… Looks good and I’ve been tempted by. However I do think that Mantica is missing some cat based creatures. Maybe give them an oriental theme. Ninja cats!! What do you reckon?
I want that KoW army.
I think the way Justin ink washed the aliens looks absolutely brilliant. I don’t even think much more needs to be done to them. It gives them the monochromatic color scheme I’ve always thought they had. I really like the idea of the holograms for the actual models themselves as a quick out of the box design.
Been playing the KOW 2 rules a fair amount already, got a Dwarf and Ogre mega army on the way and already have the one player starter boxes for both factions as well. Dwarf artillery has taken a hit in the new rules but it kind of needed to, Ogres are still brutal. Been proxying a fair amount, looking at a list for my Tomb Kings I have painted up, Undead is ok for this but I think they’re planning another undead list at some point.
Desert wars in WWII is interesting.. on one hand it’s something that isn’t covered often. On the other hand, the general lack of terrain can make games “stand and fire” exercises. Looking forward to the articles.
I’m waiting for the KoW Varangur army finally being published. I’d especially like to see minis made!
I really like that KoW have created a home for Fantasy players who are not interested in AoS. I have some Dark Elves which I would very happily use as Twilight Kin and think it’d be great. The only thing I’d like to see is a unit in the army that will let me get my dragon in there! Cause every fantasy game needs dragons! 😀
Also! The aircraft rules for BA have actually been around for a very long time, they just reposted it on their site recently which made all the newer players notice it. 😛
Great show guys – really looking forward to the Desert War articles.
One thing to bear in mind with Montgomery (hopefully no one has mentioned this already) but he was famously rather tactless and opinionated. That might not be new news to most people, but it really caused him damage when he went on a speaking-tour of the US after the war. He proceeded to pull absolutely no punches in describing every perceived failing of his fellow generals and the Allied strategy. I imagine the idea was to ‘set the record straight’ but his delivery and overall gracelessness during this tour caused huge offence with the US command who were singled out for fierce criticism.
It’s probably fair to say that this one attempt by Monty to justify his position and war strategy backfired beautifully, and his reputation took a great beating as a result with many counter-arguments being posed. He had difficult relationships with the Allied supreme command during the war, but this episode cemented the American opinion of him. Over the years I’d suggest that Montgomery’s currency, especially on the other side of the pond, has remained very low.
As is often the case with these things, I expect the truth is more nuanced than many of the official accounts suggest.
Justin is wrong again. AvP looks good but not sure I can get ANOTHER board game right now as I have several hundred. No, really. I’m an addict. Ugh.
the main reason for the british fighting in the desert was to secure control of the suez canal and access to india and the rest of the empire
Kings of War: I would have written “an army list that matches the tomb kings from warhammer fantasy”, because I have one waiting around to get some games since GW messed uped the rules. But now I know about the Empire of Dust armylist and have to say it is GREAT. So what do I want for Kings of War: Characters. Some special characters with some great stories and that tiny little special rule. Not in a sense it happened fo Fantasy or 40k, where everything is a lot of times only about characters anymore. But more like the feeling of a general. Meaning a character that give the entire army a little special rule, that allows you to play a different style. Got to love that Ork called Napoleon 😀
Desert Generals: I have to disagree with John on two accounts. First I don’t thing that Monty was the best general in the desert, that spot has to be reserved for Rommel. Secondly – an on the same point – I don’t think that Blitzkrieg was a total failure in the desert. Soon after Rommels arrival to africa some of the campaigns that he personally commanded are just astonishing. Just read about the first half of the battle of the Kasserine Pass. Reading about cutting through supply lines, it felt like Napoleons famous Maneuvre sur le Derrieres. The thing that finally made the africa campaign fail was German the supply issues. The amount of equipment and supplies that was lost crossing the mediterranean sea was just insane. And the Allies startet with the Americans entering to gain the upper hand in air combat. So the few supplies that actually arrived in africa took far to long to reach the areas in need.
When you compare numbers (for example from the World War II Data Book John showed a few month back) Rommel made the best decisions and the most success out of what he was given. Monty is a closed second I think, but he had a lot more to work with. Patton was quite the butcher. Sometimes he managed to lose over 100 tanks just to learn where the Germans were. I think he didn’t had the respect for his troops they would have deserved. At the end of the africa campaign Pattons strategy started to gain momentum as the Germans were outnumbered by far. So he earned a lot of the glory the Brits fought hard to make even possible. And don’t forget the Italians. There were some brave battles fought, but I guess they were just not up to the time on strategy, equipment and structure. Their numbers (and yeah I know it’s terrible to break this down to numbers) were even worse than Pattons in his beginnings.
Reading a few of the comments (not all there are too many). I really hope that Kings of War keeps working towards it’s own goal and trying to be a set of fantasy rules that cover the “classic” fantasy line and not the GW version that was created. We don’t need all the weird and wonderful types of armies nor do the types of troops need to be that many either.
There is no reason why the rule set can’t have a handful of troop types (with the odd difference to give unique flavour to an army) without having to worry about unique arms and armour etc. Keep it simple and people will flock towards it.
And talking of flock I really need to get myself one of those boxes.
+1 vote for a Kings of War round robin tournament with the BOW staff. Justin vs Lloyd and John vs Warren in the first round.
So I will admit to not knowing much about kings of war, but after a quick peruse through their website, I have to say I am really impressed with how they seem to be doing business. I mean, allowing people to use your rules for free is great, allowing the more serious gamers to buy the full book, which probably has a load of extra features is good tactic. I am also impressed with the range of their minis, particularly their undead, abyssal stuff, very flavourful!
I love the new Kings of War and backed the kickstarter. I like the groups of miniatures instead of removing individual figures. I was thinking of basing less figures than the total; say 15 for a 20 man group so I can save a little and expand my forces. I was just wondering how far I can stretch it before people complain? I do a lot of work on my bases so the block will look nice, but worried about WYSIWYG complaints.
Well as long as you tell your opponent before hand what they are and the size matches you can pretty much do anything. For example I am using storm cast eternals as orges and the army looks great. I am also using the flying storm cast eternals as the angels for my basilean army.
I am building an awesome community in a town I moved to just over a year ago I have convinced them all to switch to KOW, Right now I am building an Awesome Dwarf army with the new warsmith out he looks amazing in my army, Also, with the option to make a diorama my dwarven sharp shooters are on different tiers firing off rocks behind their huge shields. Looks amazing. Also taking the AOS build warren is doing I have altered it to play KOW on Man is that time consuming but is starting to look pure awesomeness.
I have been keeping an eye on KoW for a while now. I have just started repainting my half finished GW orcs with red skin and mounting them on diorama size bases for the new edition of Kings of War. Really looking forward to bringing them to my lfgs. Do mantic have an equivalent to pressgangers? Once I’m more familiar with the game I would love to drive more interest in my area.
I just downloaded the core rules for KOW to see if I like how the rules flow. If I do, the Dwarf starter army looks cool. I also like the starter army pdfs as it gives you an idea of abilities and point costs.
I see that a lot of folks here is getting out of Warhammer, which used to be the most popular game here. I am all for that, since WH doesn’t interest me… and it seems like Kings of War is the natural choice. Now, I’d rather see people getting into the other king-wargame, Wrath of Kings, since I already own that, but KoW looks really, really interesting. I might buy into a huge-army game yet. 🙂
I am looking forward to the kow rulebook with fluff. I have played a couple of games with the rules. Im very excited and love the style of The Herd. I can’t wait to see what miniatures Will be coming out for the centaurs (if they will be coming). Because my current centigors are converted and im waiting for some new stuff!
The new Kings of War demons are awefully nice!
Still waiting for my KOW kickstarter to arrive before I chose what army I’d like to do
Now that we have medieval fantasy races in Kings of War, I’d like to see ancient races too, with mythological creatures (for example Greek or Persian).
I’d like to see a race of small heavily armoured guys from a land made entirely of coal. The blackest coal you could imagine. This would really give some of us the opportunity to show off our basing skills. 🙂
I currently have a Dwarf army and I love them. I am trying to get a few friends into the game and plan to do an Army of Men or an undead force. I LOVE the ghouls and the skellys…
First game of KoW 2nd ed tomorrow night, looking forward to getting my undead hordes on the table again and seeing whats changed now. If i was doing a new army I’ve had an idea for ages about mounted scouts/archers riding ostriches or some kind of large birds, but i haven’t been able to find any minis to fit. Guys riding ostriches please, thanks.
Any humans planned for KoW?
I have to say that the Floxbox is a pretty neat device. I had never realized how flat flat my static grass actually was until I saw that dwarf you flocked. I couldn’t find where to pick one up. Where do I get one?
http://www.warpainter.net/Flockboxpages/Flockbox.html
Mantic’s Forces of the Abyss look totally awesome, they are more demonic for me than GW’s similar models.
Omg, those aliens, predators and marines look frickin’ sweet. The lads may all have to pitch in to get this one. It’s just too juicy to pass up. I remember the old Aliens movie board game, with the cutouts flat minis. Hehe. 🙂
My KoW 2E package should arrive soon, but I was only able to afford the rulebook, no new armies
One thing that always appealed to me with Kings of War is the relaxed attitude Mantic has to what models you can use, in so much that the army lists are generic and that the footprint of the unit is what is important, not so much using the exactly right models. In the sense that I can make a specially themed “counts as” army with completely different models if I wanted -and that would be ok to bring to tournaments! (How about making a proper Lovecraftian tentacled horror army, or even something silly like the farm animals uprising…although that could actually be cool, with rampaging cows, Hogs gone wild and kamikaze chicken…hmmm. then again that would probably annoy the opponents more than its worth for a laugh. sigh.)
My grandad fought in world war 2 in the battle of El Almain. Always been an era that i want game. Will have my Bolt Action Eighth Army one day!! Soon as I’ve done all the other projects….
I like “KoW” in general. It´s fast and doesn´t get bogged down in character challenges and just killing models. It´s more “realistic” in the sense that it’s all about breaking your enemys morale instead of just killing everybody everywhere. I also like their smaller 28mm figures instead of bigger and bigger models. The only thing i find could be done better is their world “Mantica” wich doesn´t speak to me. Also I Think the game would be even better in 15mm!!! (perhaps both 28 and 15).
Kings of War has been on my radar for a while now, but thanks to Infinity week I’m now up to my eyeballs in Infinity minis. Still, at least there should be a new rulebook when I do start.
Been eyeing up some dwarfs since seeing Justin’s last week, and the value for money is excellent.
Oh! and I’m also seriously considering Bolt Action….. where will I find the time?
Im slowly putting together a Samurai army for KOW. Might have to pick up undead in the future to fight them.
I can’t wait to see Ratkin armies finally arriving to Kings of War!
Justin’s AVP figures looks great, love the predators, they look excellent! Makes me wanna play AVP on the pc again. I loved the alien films, but I do also love a lot of the comics. Promethus was… okay.
The flock box…. i think thats where my money is going next month. Oh and maybe some rubber gloves, no electrocution for me 😉
Kings of war, a game i’ve been looking into for a while. I have my old Vampire Count army’s i’m would use for starters. But i do love the look of the Abyssel Dwarfs, if i should start from scratch.
Ive been reading up on the world of mantica. And the things i would like to see is a fish/naga people race, perhaps some of the different elves, wood, sand or ice elves perhaps? Would also love to see some more human factions. But for something completely new i would love to see a race of bird men !
The best general…. well its kind hard. They where all the best at some point doing the war, but i do have soft spot for Monty. Always god whit more world war II stuff, especial for a historie nerd like me 😉
Monty played to the press as did Patton but Monty just did it better. He would change uniforms before meeting the men of a unit if the army in question had a different look (Monty) but just the headdress if that’s all that was different
coming from a lotr sbg background mass battle games have alway been daunting due to the sheer amount of models you have to take off but with kings of war this isn’t a problem. If i were to win the army i would choose is undead as i love to opportunity’s for dioramas and the chance to pay homage to the great late sir Christopher lee as the leader of the army!
Awesome idea. How about a corrupted Maddy Smith and Ingrid Pitt in the mix!
I first saw kings of war just as mantic started, before the rules set it was just the minis. Rule set came out and I ordered myself the first starter set. Have been a fan ever since but not had a huge amount of time with the system… Until now. For me warhammer was the game the got me into tabletop gaming, many many years ago. As a kid I was bought my first train set and my dad proceeded to then take me to the model shop in inverness, which back then was the sort of big day day out event lol. I still remember standing in front of the counter as my dad was paying for some new track and a wagon and being mesmerised by all the model kits on the shelf behind the counter. But one thing jump out, above all the hundreds of kits. It was the first shaven screaming bell kit, although I had no idea what it was at the time. I bugged my dad for weeks over that model, saved every penny I got and on the return trip to inverness I got it and some squigs. As far as I was concerned these little metal models were just that. I had just got into David endings and was half way though the belgariad/mallorean saga. High fantasy was my thing. On a school trip to another primary i met a few new people and they knew what these models I had so terribly painted were and told me about the game of warhammer and thus begun an almost 20 year journey. I’ll admit there were times when I stepped away barometer it all, and there was a period where I stepped specifically away from gw. Then in recent times I had stepped away from gw and then the store opened in inverness, something I would have relished as a kid. I’ll admit I wasn’t interested that much but as I was living in town at the time I had to pass it everyday to get to work. Then I got to know the store manager and I found out the the wood elfs were coming out and that there were big rumours about the return of nagash. I was back in. I’ve always been a fluff driven player, especially when it comes to fantasy and have left games snubbed for their lack or poorly though out fluff. I had got into iron kingdoms by this point so was used to a certain level. End times didn’t disappoint and by the time of the unbound (queue backlash) I was dreaming up fluff driven lists. It had divided the community and there were some who had the stompy feet reaction, if you take an unbound list I’m just going to take 10 terrorgeists attitude. Personally I was looking forward to 9th edition. Being a veteran gamer and someone who had been a warhammer player for so long with games played with all kinds of fluff driven events I thought end times was the banner for warhammer to become what it always had the potential to be. Sadly no 9th edition. Now I have played age of sigmar, I was there for the open day event. It’s a good game, don’t get me wrong. It was fun and enjoyable. Have I bought the starter set? No. This is not out of hate GW old warhammer gamer rage etc, it’s simply down to the fact I have plenty of minis at home, the rules are free and I have 2 white dwarfs with the rule in. The more important question is was it the game I wanted? Simple answer is no. Queue kings of war again. Visit to my local games store ellerium games, and they are having someone from mantic visiting, sadly I’m going to be at work so I missed it lol. But I got that feeling back seeing the minis, that little kid in the model shop with his dad and seeing that one fantasy kit. I hadn’t felt like that in years. Kings of wars is going to be my main fantasy home for mass battle and with the pricing it’s so much more cost effective than warhammer has been the last years. I cannot recommend it highly enough to people, I have been advocating it for a number of years but none more so than in the last couple of months. I dabble in sigmar but I’ll miss the old world, it was a big part of my life growing up. But I have the rulebooks etc so I can always play it when I want, something I think a lot of people forget lol, he’ll me and a few mates still play 3rd edition sometimes as we still have all the books and cards, nostalgia is fun lol. But for me mantic have provided a new home, a great game, amazingly rules and all that was great about high fantasy mass battles. Long may it stay… And just because I can, anyone that hasn’t seen dungeon saga, or had the chance to play it, get to your local gaming store and find out if they have a store copy yet, if not then when their getting it. Believe me it is worth it, especially if you loved war hammer quest, this is the next best thing, and it will support all the minis from the kings of war range from what I here.
I have Mantic Undead for Kings of War, but I’m tempted to get an Abyssal army, I wonder if they will have some Undead models or some other troop types I could use Undead for…
You can use the undead as ally units for the Abyssals, and theme them as burning undead.
Good pic here, but no idea how to achieve it in a paint job:
Whoa! I’m going to make flaming Abyssal skeletons for my army 🙂
After reading the love above it makes me sad to have missed out on the Kickstarter. I played warhammer until it just got too wobbly. I was really excited to hear the first reports of simplidfied rules in AoS but, of course, like alot of people the lack of balance turned me off. I have several hundred goblins, and AoS was a real buzzkill. Mantic, however, is doing some wonderful things with the little buggers and producing some excelent and characterful models that remind me of all the things that drew me to the tiny monsters in the first place. I love to hear the sense of wargaming comradery in the video too, talking about giving an outlet for those lost “massive” armies and their square bases. Yeah, I get that they are trying to absorb a client base, but the attitude that the approach from is one that feels like my own gamer tribe.
The abbysals seem like the most exciting thing out there… Has anyone tried running them with a heavier focus on the constructs? They seem like a dream to paint.
At first I was hesitant about kings of war because compared to warhammer it seemed too simple and bland. However, after ll of the coverage of KOW on here I have come around on this point. Yes, the rules and armies do not have as much flavor or variety in KOW, but it has been designed that way to allow players room to “game in the gaps” as Warren would say. Mantic releasing rules fro armies from other ranges proves that is their intention with all of their armies and rules. Additionally, while some of the rules still seem odd to me, such as units not becoming worse as they take wounds, this is not as big as a problem as I orginlly thought it was going to be. This is because with the simple rules it is easy to house rule something, such as hordes becoming regiments and so on when units take enough wounds, without completely destroying or breaing the game. House ruling in warhammer usually meant that you had to house rule a bunch of different rules just to keep the game from breaking. I can’t wait to get my KOW rulebook and get back into mass fantasy battles.
It’s good that Kings of War have an undead army, but I hope they’ll make it into further factions like mummies and vampires.
I am totally into Mantic elves, I wish to see more of them. Probably a bit more Twilight Elves too. Kings of War for the win!
My human Cavalry Horde doesn’t seem as unstoppable now. I like the add-ons to the Army list.
Friday rullleeeezzzzzzzz!!!!!!!!
Really looking forward to be getting some KoW models from the new kick starter
Monty also helped decrease the amount of dysentery casualties by using empty ammo crates dug into the desert with a fabric covering as toilets, whilst ze Germans were left to poop anywhere near camp. Which meant lots of flies and disease spread quickly, a huge amount of deaths in war are caused by disease and extreme weather conditions. Some pictures of Rommel from the desert campaign show him with sores on his face from the tough conditions, he was later removed on health grounds.
Great show gents, keep up the good work, AVP looks really sweet. If anybody wants to take Bolt Action into the desert campaign then check Perry Miniatures 28mm WW2 desert range, it’s awesome, the long range SAS guys and their jeeps are particularly interesting.
As for generals on North African WWII campaign I always understood that Rommel was greatly crippled by war supplies shortages, mainly no support from motherland and if not for that he would own this part of war pretty quick.
First off: It’s a pain missing a Weekender when I am away at LARP but good to come across it when laying down with a Headache! – Love the ‘hologram’ paint idea for AvP!
On the KoW front – I have been enamoured with Mantic’s Ogres (where is the Ogre £50 starter set huh!! What am I gonna do if I win :p collect Dwarves?!?) and have always been a solid Undead player but I am very intrigued by the ‘Dark Humans’ idea – I like the basic Basilean troops overall but am not a fan of the Angelic Troops (just not my style) and so am really wondering what the Evil Humans will have instead.
I would like to see the darker elements of Humanity eposed in that army – Monstrous Flesh-Golems and their Alchemists, Bloodied Pit-Fighters – maaaaybe a Slave-Legion of Peasants led by a cruel Slavemaster (from the rear – obviously) – really sets my mind going 🙂
Once I am in a better financial position I will have to look into getting my hands on Dungeon Saga… I’m a bit fan of Warhammer Quest (currently rebuilding a set for personal use – trying to avoid buying GW products where possible) and I look forward tot he coming Weekend!! (although I’m going to have to activate my Trial Backstager Pass… Grrr… I hate having no money)
Something that would be good is to be able to bring you DS characters into your games of Kings of War.. Maybe coming up with a points cost for your heroes and for the items they have acquired during there dungeon delving..
Can’t wait for my kickstarter stuff to arrive so I can start planning and building my army of stumpies.
Man, I absolutely love the idea of creating mini dioramas right onto the unit bases… I’m thinking of creating a goblin army that’s notorious for raiding small farming villages. I could model a horde torching a windmill, or a regiment stomping through what used to be a freshly plowed field. I can picture a few of the little buggers pointing their spears suspiciously at the scarecrow! There’s lots of fun opportunities for modeling to be had in a rules system like this one.
I gotta admit, I held out against KoW for several years, under the tired old assumption that many WHFB players like myself had: “Its just a knock off of the game we already play.” I used to think that way…
I was dead wrong. KoW’s rules are elegant and balanced, and the company seems much more involved in making decisions and business practices based around the player, rather than at the expense of the player. I’m a happy convert and can’t recommend the game enough. If anybody reading this has been on the fence about it for awhile, take a look at the rules. after all, THEY’RE FREE. And your old collection of GW figures is perfectly valid at KoW tournaments. Its a win-win for anybody who spent decades collecting models and has been left out in the cold by AoS.
Yep, the mini diorama idea is good, though I’m not sure I’ll make the whole base one, or just have some minis on the base that are fixed parts of the diorama, and the others are removable to use them in other games too.
I’m still not finished with my elves, but I’m already enamored by the Abyssals!
At the moment I use celts and german for Varangur but I’d really like to see Mantic models for them!
I love that you can mix & match your minis in KoW unlike WH
I would love to have a Carthagean themed army. Image a scenario where Hannibal would have a won. It would make a fantastic themed army set in the present day in Mantica. A sort of Arabic themed one as well. But please do avoid clinch of make them look evil.
I like the fact that KoW has an army list that is there for history mini collectors. I really have to set down and play the game.
I also really like the elf models.
In my teenage years, I had periods where I spent a month here and there browsing through old issues of White Dwarf on my computer, longingly looking at Warhammer Fantasy stuff, knowing that I absolutely can’t afford it now and probably won’t be able to afford it after I started working. I browsed through years of content and painting tutorials and trying to figure out the rules (which I still haven’t managed). Then I grew up and started working, and now we live in a time without Warhammer Fantasy and live in an Age (of Sigmar) that’s even more expensive. Then there’s this neat and clean fantasy rank-and-file game, Kings of War. With miniatures that I could afford and a ruleset that was understandable and quick. Fell in love immediately, still waited months to buy in. Now I have six people at the board game club playing cardboard squares against me. Hopefully we’re going to get some more real armies soon!
I usually agree with John on most things… but to say Monty was the best of the three generals is wildly inaccurate in terms of successes, losses, and foresight. Rommel, in my opinion is #2 and Patton #1. Not only for his assertiveness, but Patton saw the cold war coming 20 years before it started. Yes, the US entered late, but the US was kind of busy over in the Pacific helping out the philipines, Australia, and then after Pearl Harbor it was on! The US was also sending thousands of metric tons of supplies from 39-44 in order to keep the island afloat. Now, as I am American I may be biased, but market garden fell on its butt, Crete was, like the movie, a harder trip for Patton because Eisenhower was trying to appease his British host general. Monty had the RAF always in lieu of Patton ever getting much of the same scale of support from the 8th Air Force. Patton did so much more with less than Monty ever did. Rommel is legendary from WW1 and the interim and knew where the allies would land and was a large reason for the amount of casualties on dday.Rommel was also a complete advocate for the men on the line. As far as a British field commander I would go with Major Howard before I’d pick monty… but i digress…