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The Weekender XLBS: Grumpy Wargamers Raw
June 8, 2013 by warzan
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Can you get some pictures of the scatter minis in the news section? Would love to see if they are any good….or a web link? Maybe a full week dedicated to them with a battle report, painting tutorials and original gaming scenarios………or am I missing something………. ; )
Ok just my thoughts on the whole ‘who will buy GW’
If it was disney I think it would be amazing, mainly because they now have star wars. if they buy GW and start making sculpts how many of us would buy a star wars wargame? I am guessing alot, GW can make large models, which they have been doing pretty much every release, and dare I say some of them seem a bit more cartoony than usual?
just my 2 pence worth
Who will buy GW? Thats a good question.
I say Privateer Press! Just so they could rub it in there noses.
But really, the best scenario would be Disney or WB or Hasbro. They can make almost anything into money. Ho! It just came to me, how about Facebook owning GW.
The comparison with Marvel and DC is an interesting as the core industry of both those brands, the monthly pamphlet comic book, makes very little money as there’s a very limited market for it. Instead they are the base upon which the IP is exploited to make billions of dollars. GW have to ruthlessly squeeze every penny they can from the 28mm toy soldier market just to generate £120 million in revenue each year. They’ve pushed that market about as far as it can go and if anything the likelihood is it’ll contract in future. It already seems to be the case that overall sales must be declining if profits aren’t expanding to keep pace with the price rises. For it to continue growing it has to exploit the IP and, like Warren, I believe that any potential buyer will be looking to do just that. There’s no point in buying GW otherwise.
A very interesting discussion guys. I haven’t been invested in GW for the better part of 10 years but obviously they are still the heavy weights in an industry that I care about. As Warren said, Marvel / Disney have been very canny with their IP of late and movies like the Avengers are being watched by people who probably never read a Marvel comic. DC, arguably, have had similar success with video games. The Lego Batman games, the excellent Arkham Asylum and City, even the recent fighting game though I forget what it is called.. they have all reached gamers who didn’t gave a monkeys about Superman and Bats.
This is what GW I think has failed to do.. instead, they are focussed on selling their products within an increasingly divided community, with the Black Library and Forgeworld targeting a percentage of that same community instead reaching out to people who aren’t already fans of GW’s product lines. In fact, considering the number of Marine chapters you guys mentioned that don’t have their own codex I wonder if there is some truth to their lack of resources, since they appear unable or unwilling to deliver the same level of content to every playable facet of the 40k universe. Even Dawn of War, as great as it was, wasn’t pitched to an especially large audience which limited how successful it could be in drawing new people into the hobby. Space Marine was at least released on consoles but it still failed to be an awesome game based on an existing IP. Instead it was a good game based on an awesome IP and it just didn’t set the world on fire like it could have done.
I think GW have reached beyond their core brand with the Black Library books. I know a fair few people who read them but don’t mini game, let alone play 40K. The comment about Dawn of War not drawing people to the hobby misses the point. It’s not about using the IP to draw people to the core product. It’s about exploiting the IP the core product has generated to reach people who will never play toy soldiers. The toy soldier market is small and has natural limit to it. For GW to grow they need to be able to go outside it and to do that they need a lot of resources. The budget of The Avengers movie alone would take up the entire revenue of GW for several years.
About the talk about more codexes, if you watch the GW “comercial” about the Iyanden eldar suplement, it mentions :
“The first in a new range of Codex supplements beginning with Iyanden – A Codex: Eldar supplement.”
So, yeh, I think thats what they are planning for the likes of Imperial Fists, considering the new Space Marine codex rumored to come this year;-)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmaykUjsBPM
One key issue I think you guys missed out on in relation to marvel/dc being able to expand their brand into moves and such is Characters.
If GW had a “hollywood” movie, who would it be about? There is really no “main character” in 40k. I don’t think anyone is going to connect to a 40k character to the same level as they connect to a crime fighting hero.
To be able to make it so that the average movie goer could understand what was going on I think the content would become too diluted and not resemble the 40k we know any more.
The only character I can think of that could work in a “hollywood” setting is Gaunt. A human face that people can relate to, fighting alongside regular human troops. The problem with space marines is they’re hard for an audience to relate to. They’re superhuman warriors who not only have many physical aspects of them that are vastly different to you and I, but their lives is totally unlike anything any of us could relate to. They don’t have love interests, they don’t have kids at home, mortgages to pay when the war is over, their way is never over.
Now, a TV series, or a web series or anything smaller scale like that, I think could work. In a similar fashion to the animated starship troopers. A core cast of imperial guard that we come to know and love over the course of many episodes. It would also be a good way to slowly introduce other aspects of the universe to the viewer.
Furthermore, as Warren picked up on, GW are far too guarded with their IP. There’s little chance for the GW “brand” to escape our niche because the IP is so tightly regulated. Do GW have a presence at comic con? And I don’t mean BL/FW, I mean GW themselves.
They need to re-embrace the 3rd party and independent market before they can properly grow again. Attend every convention remotely related to games/sci-fi/fantasy in force, really start working with independent traders again (lift the damn embargo etc) helping them set up their stores and make sure the ones in areas without a GW store get the support they need to survive and grow the hobby in their area.
They need to re-touch with the community. Re-open the facebook, open forums (if they’re worried about hate spam, just do what the mantic forum does and moderate the first x number of posts a user has. The people should learn pretty quick that pointless hate won’t be tolerated)
I know it gets thrown around all the time, but I really don’t think GW, with the state they are in at the moment, can survive the future. In 10 years time technology will have come so far, plastic tooling may be affordable to even the smallest company, operating out of their garage. GW’s main competitors at the moment will have had another 10 years of building their own brands, increasing the quality of their own product, all the while being much more active and “likeable” in the eyes of the community.
I think any company who intends on purchasing GW would hope that in ten years the IP would be very profitable even if they never sold another mini. Focusing on growing the core business is not what I would be interested in if I was a Disney, Time Warner, even a Hasbro. That market is close to saturation point as it is in terms of the profit it can generate.
Gaunt maybe but surely Eisenhorn would enable a more varied movie/series. Tracking down artifacts/herestics. Squad based combats the odd space marine, demon, battle. Could be really dark and gritty. Needs to be to make a truely classic movie to suck the masses in.
It is interesting that the panel mentions ignoring the negative comments about their work but then asks GW to presumably do the opposite. Reopening their facebook page etc would however be a good outlet for people to vent even if GW do ignore most of it. It was a massive shame they pulled it. For 40 yr olds plus to keep going back to the 40k mythos says it all. They have us…..it really is an opportunity for a big company to print money whilst pleasing a lot of teens and grumpy old wargamers. I think they need to keep the split between the universe/publishing arm and the gaming essentially growing black library whilst the game trundles along. Presumably they already know this………and BL do engage the community quite well from what I’ve seen. Warres right though resources is the next step. Whoever it is that ploughs the big bucks in…..I get the feeling they will only get one chance to launch the 40k universe to the masses…..they need to get it right first time.
“It is interesting that the panel mentions ignoring the negative comments about their work but then asks GW to presumably do the opposite.”
VERY Fair point well made, the only thing that I feel should be taken into account is the difference between a single Youtube personality putting their hobby on display, and a corporation trying to meet the demands of its customer base (and shareholders).
They are very different IMHO…
Yeah, good point. Its much more personal (and cutting) on Utube vrs individuals and in most cases they havn’t taken anyones money….but then GW is largely made of people/hobbyists who must feel some pain from nasty comments (Matt Ward is probably scared to leave the house). Either way GW really need to give the online community a forum to comment. Not having one is just silly….almost a two finger salute to the community. But then if it comes back we shouldn’t be surprised if they don’t dwell on the negative/mistakes since that’s a basic survival mechanism most people and organisations need.
That depends on who you think “the community” is. I suspect GW believe they generate the bulk of their income from a different demographic to the one which frequents internet forums and is one which constantly criticises them online. Why expose your money-making demographic to a barrage of negativity from this less lucrative demographic when you don’t have to?
I completely agree with your reasoning about why GW pulled the site and just before they did I remember seeing two? negative megathreads with about 3k comments on each…..suggesting Facebook is perhaps too easily hijacked. But that doesn’t mean avoiding social media/forums is a good thing for GW going forward. Perhaps they need to develop their own solution/forums (like BOW) for the whole demographic to enjoy. Also, If my own household is anything to go by I reckon mature gamers spending power is a mighty large slice of the GW pie and we deserve a place to grump in their general direction….
i think it would be great if BOW bought GW think it would be ran really well with the community and hobby in mind. imagine if this happened and swampy Darrell and Andy were in charge of Writing 40k it could be the cheesiest game ever 🙂