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[unofficiall weekender] Rules – who needs them anyway?

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This topic contains 25 replies, has 8 voices, and was last updated by  sundancer 3 weeks, 5 days ago.

Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 26 total)
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  • #1491120

    sundancer
    Participant
    19163xp

    ### Start of shameless copy & paste ###

    Read all of this before you start as it will save any trouble later.

    First thing you must do is make your “pledge”. It can be anything gaming related, big or small, and you don’t even have to finish it. No, in here, happiness is the road. Have fun doing whatever it is, but it is not a race. Accompany your work with pictures or we might think you are do something sinister and just using us for cover.

    You are also presented with a few questions. It is to get the conversation started. Try and keep your answers ‘conversational’, no text speak, and certainly no “basically”. This is how we all get to know each other better. While you are here feel free to tell us a story, show a picture, joke, tales of love or woe, or just add your own little bit. This is the whole point…in here it is just us.

    If you have never taken part before we may bark and bite, but we also like a cuddle! It is all done in the best possible taste and it is character building. feel free to give as good as you get.

    A few other things to note: NO RELIGION & NO POLITICS! Glasgow pub rules are in effect. If you need to make a better point then it is fine, but don’t take the piss. And always keep it civil.

    Play plenty of music to go with your work. Loud and through proper speakers. Write us a playlist of things we might not have heard before.

    Now, after all of that there is only one ‘real’ rule in here and it cannot be broken: NO DICKS! (Exceptions may be made for little fighting men with little plastic/resin/metal wieners)

    ### End of shameless copy & paste ###

    Questions of the week

    1. What is the most complex rule set in miniature wargaming you have encountered?
    2. What was the most simple rule set in miniature wargaming you have encountered?
    3. Which rule set in miniature wargaming have you played that much that you feel very confident in almost never needing to look up the rules?
    #1491123

    sundancer
    Participant
    19163xp
    1. Battletech – But maybe it’s not complex as such but there are so many rules…. you can beat someone to death with the rule book
    2. X-Wing V1. Manoeuvrer dials, dice and movement tools. It’s so simple yet leaves so much room for strategy.
    3. Sadly none. I play way to few games. I can’t even remember all Star Wars: Legion rules correctly.

    Also, the owner of my FLGS plays SW:L with me almost every Thursday yet he has an even harder time remembering the rules than I have. But yesterday we played a game of Battletech. It was my second game over all and his first after over 20 years not playing. Before that he was a very ambitious player… and he still knows most of the rules… baffles me XD

    #1491170

    thedace
    Participant
    3644xp

    Its the weekend!

    Questions of the week

    What is the most complex rule set in miniature wargaming you have encountered?

    I’ve not played it but have encountered it. At my local war games club there are a couple of chaps who play Napoleonics. In the last month I cannot see a change in the battlefield! There are chalk lines all over the place and sticky labels on all the units. They have a briefcase full of rules. I have no idea what goes on.

    What was the most simple rule set in miniature wargaming you have encountered?

    Probably Age of Sigmar …. 4 Pages

    Which rule set in miniature wargaming have you played that much that you feel very confident in almost never needing to look up the rules?

    This is a recent one, Warhammer underworlds. Things are so clear and concise. In my opinion a very well designed game.

    I, like you @sundancer am not great at remembering rules and its normally at least 1 turn into a game before i’m fully refreshed on things.

    A pledge

    Finish painting lady Illona and then paint a few Beastgrave minis up.

    Some music….

    Get your bass bins ready lol.

    Some classic English folk music

     

     

     

    #1491186

    danlee
    Participant
    11602xp

    This weeks pledge is chapter 6 of Tainted Grail and finish my Nightvault models.

    1. What is the most complex rule set in miniature wargaming you have encountered? 6th or 7th Ed 40k
    2. What was the most simple rule set in miniature wargaming you have encountered? Bolt Action
    3. Which rule set in miniature wargaming have you played that much that you feel very confident in almost never needing to look up the rules? I don’t think I can play any without referring to unit cards regularly, even if I don’t have to refer to the main rule book. Bolt action is probably the best as once you remember a units weapon(s) and armour value there are no other stats to keep looking up.

    I finished chapter 5 of Tainted Grail last night. Full write up here: https://www.beastsofwar.com/project/1467741

    #1491272

    doctorether
    Participant
    7820xp

    Questions of the week

    • What is the most complex rule set in miniature wargaming you have encountered?
      • Personally, encountered? Hmm….. Batman Miniatures Game 1e was awfully clunky. Golem Arcana is a mess.
    • What was the most simple rule set in miniature wargaming you have encountered?
      • Warcry. Two pages and dead easy.
    • Which rule set in miniature wargaming have you played that much that you feel very confident in almost never needing to look up the rules?
      • Warcry

    So got some Adeptus Titanicus in last night as I demoed it for my old boss, and he is sold on it. This weekend I aim to paint my Chainrasp in reds and blues to be Aqshy “Gasgeists”.

    Also carrying on with freelance writing. Got a pdf out on the ST Vault and now looking at a new project to write.

    #1491277

    danlee
    Participant
    11602xp

    I finished the Nightvault miniatures. Now to base up all my endless spells.

     

    Resolution 2020: Clearing the pile of shame

    #1491371

    horati0nosebl0wer
    Participant
    7598xp

    Most complex rules for mini wargaming I agree was Battletech. I remember a oneshot game in the Long Long Ago that was supposed to be a whole day and the only unit that died was one of my Clan mechs that I kamikaze’d. One Inner Sphere tank was massively damaged by the explosion and I might’ve taken out an infantry unit as well when we called it. That was an epic fail of a FLGS event.

    Agreed with @sundancer for simplest rules set. The guessing game dynamic was quite fun for maneuvering. I think the Malifaux dynamic of playing the card game ‘War’ and ease of reading abilities was brilliant for simplicity in 2nd ed.

    Confidence in my rules knowledge was strong long ago in 2nd ed. Malifaux but I’ve since shoved off that info for more practical purposes. Bloodbowl is a pretty simple system at present that I have a few things to commit to my brain. You can argue that it isn’t a wargame but ro me it stands as a skirmish battle system if you think past the sports aspect. It has solid standard strategies (score points/beat the hell out of your opponent) and a few variable tactics with the chance elements easily readable so you really don’t need to remember too much outside of special abilities and a few team specifics for stats.

    Since I’m still not settled in a permanent home I will commit my pledge for doing some build work on a new display base. I have ready access to my hobby tools and some plasticard so that won’t be a problem. I have no idea where my greenstuff or Apoxiesculpt has gone so I’ll wing it as best I can for now.

    #1491408

    limburger
    Participant
    11916xp

    I should stop reading the GW and Warlord games newsletters … got tempted into buying stuff again and I ought to do work on my existing projects instead of preparing for new ones. As a result I’ve got a start collecting set for Genestealer Cults, a boxed set of brood brothers and a copy of the ‘greater good’ episode in the ‘Psychic awakening’ series.
    I also ordered a copy of Rattenkrieg and a few theatre/campaign books for the Soviets in Bolt-action. We’ll see when those arrive.

    1) What is the most complex rule set in miniature wargaming you have encountered?
    I think Warhammer and Rogue Trader (40k 1st edition) would be that.
    Although to be fair those were the first time I saw miniature wargaming rules.

    AD&D 2nd edition also counts as I never really grokked how to run combat encounters with all the options.
    It’s probably why I really like systems that have an internally consistent logic as well as all relevant rules and stats on a unit/character card. (burn those rulebooks … ;-))

    2) What was the most simple rule set in miniature wargaming you have encountered?

    Xwing is definitely on that list, although I’ve only played the basic quickstart rules.
    I don’t like how it was sold and couldn’t figure out what to buy next as FFG’s schedule was random at best.

    3) Which rule set in miniature wargaming have you played that much that you feel very confident in almost never needing to look up the rules?
    I’d feel pretty confident with Flames of War 4th edition and Bolt-action 2nd edition, but only the basic stuff.
    I think I will grok the advanced rules (like mortars and morale) once I get a chance to play again.

    Reading that WarCry has easy to learn rules has already made me collect bits for it (’cause you never know when GW is gonna GW :-().

    I got into the ‘Star Breach’ kickstarter, because I like a Bolt-action style ruleset that can cover any science fiction setting.

    #1491539

    turbocooler
    Participant
    2723xp

    > What is the most complex rule set in miniature wargaming you have encountered?

    BattleTech — it has an encyclopedia of rules because the rule maintainers and many grognards want ridiculous amount of fidelity.  At times some of the rules book themselves have had 50+ pages of errata and the errata keep coming.   While you are not required to play with all the rules, when you meet someone at a game shop that wants to play you need an hour negotiation as to which rules will be used.  It is a game with a rule set made in the 80s which has a community that is rabid and unforgiving nor wishes to change.  I now just play the video game.  Second place and third place for me is Reality’s Edge Cyberpunk Skirmish and Zona Raiders.  These games have very thick rules manuals but worse have creators who do not seem to answer in the various available forums rules clarifications.  These are also games where you are told you can use whatever rules you want but since there is no official set it takes forever to play because first you need to decide what rules you are using.  Ridiculous.

    > What was the most simple rule set in miniature wargaming you have encountered?

    I find I can teach X-Wing, Star Wars Legion or Frostgrave to anyone and you can start playing immediately and add nuance and additional rules over time without complicating the game too much.  I hope I can add Oak and Iron to list in a few months.

    > Which rule set in miniature wargaming have you played that much that you feel very confident in almost never needing to

    > look up the rules?

    It changes because my group gets bored and then we switch to something else.  At one time it was Guild Ball.  Then we switched to Frostgrave and I know most of the spells without looking them up.  I can play Rangers of Waterdeep now without flipping through the pages. Star Wars Legion and Frostgrave are weekly so they stick.   Still learning Ragnarok so I may have a different answer once my group gets into that game.   In general, if more than a month goes buy I start forgetting rules if I do not play often.  I feel like was able to keep more in my head in my 20s and now in my 50s less so and it is why I keep more player aids or cheat sheets with me.

    My job is as a software developer so I am used to keeping a lot of rules and programming languages in my head but for games there is a limit.

    #1491595

    sundancer
    Participant
    19163xp

    Today I was at Highlander Games in Bremen… they had 11th anniversary and a sale on everything… I now own Fallout: Wasteland Warfare XD

    #1491624

    limburger
    Participant
    11916xp

    that’s the trouble with visiting shops or fairs where there’s a sale … it is very very hard to resist 😉

    @turbocooler I used to think that you need a dozen rules to ‘simulate’ anything with a decent amount of fidelity.
    And gamers/designers stuck in that mindset seem to think they still do.

    However I believe a simple consistent system is all you really need. The real magic happens when people start playing and those ‘simple’ systems start to interact with each other. There’s a word for that : “emergent gameplay”

    It’s why such systems can be very easy to remember and teach.
    The problems tend to occur when designers think they need to re-write the same effect using new words to make it appear different.  Best example is the ‘orbital drop’ special rule in 40k 8th edition which every faction has as it amounts to nothing more than being able to place a specific unit anywhere on the battlefield with enemies at least 8 inch away.
    I suspect that this needless rules bloat is what makes simple systems hard to balance.

    #1491969

    sundancer
    Participant
    19163xp

    Hello dear people of the interwebz. I hope you all have had some time to relax on the weekend and if you haven’t catch up on the weekender and XBLS.

    I’m currently finishing up a Top Secret project and after that… either Star Wars: Legion units are in stock or I’ll start working on the Fallout: Wasteland Warfare box.

    #1491995

    thedace
    Participant
    3644xp

    I go to the UK Games expo each year and set myself £150 to one side for that purpose (that includes the silly parking prices). But it is very hard to resist all of the shiny things.

    This year I am trying to discipline myself to a small hobby purchase a month £30 ish and one big purchase a year £100 ish. Then of course the is the above expo.

    I think perhaps it let’s you appreciate what you have more that way.

    Any boardgames this weekend @sundancer?

    I got a game of Charterstone in. Well worth a play.

    IMG_20200301_200940

    #1492064

    doctorether
    Participant
    7820xp

    EmptyName_50

    As promised I finished those Chainrasps.

    #1492065

    sundancer
    Participant
    19163xp

    @thedace  the first Mice And Mystic expansion… but only gotten so far. Will try again next weekend 😉

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