July 10, 2012 by warzan
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Andy and Darrell take a look at how the new rules for 40K 6th edition rules will affect your vanilla Space Marines and take a look at some of the updates from the latest FAQ.
Check out the Gothic Ruins from the Battlefield in a Box Range:
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its like watching two really evil guys cackling and ploting how to take over the tabletop world ….. O..O
The question is, which was is Pinky and which one is Brain? 😛
Unfortunutly Andy the thunder hammer and storm shields you can get in a pack from GW are for power armour marines, not terminators.
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?prodId=prod1400033
It’s the bit’s sites and ebay for the terminator version’s, or buy the assault terminator box set from GW.
All the Space Marine characters are still good? Shrike begs to differ. His chapter tactic of fleet got kind of nerfed. His infiltrate certainly did as you can no longer use it for first turn assaults with vanguard vets, which killed the only viable Raven Guard themed list. Even his lightning claws got hit as anyone with a 2+ armour is gonna kick his ass unless he rends like mad.
The grey knights FAQ describes the nemesis force weapons as unusual, unless otherwise stated. My reading of this is that nemesis halberds are therefore not the same as force axes as described in the rulebook, but are an unusual force weapon – i.e melee weapon, AP 3 with the +2 Iniative rule from the codex. It seems the only nemesis force weapon not classed as unusuall if the nemesis daemon hammer which is treated as a a force thunder hammer. If this is correct, I’m keeping my halberds on my termies. (please let this be right, I can’t be bothered… Read more »
Correction – nemesis doomfist is also not unusual, but treated as a force dreadnought close combat weapon, (not that I have any dreads in my army now….)
all kinds of nemesis force weapons are classed as ap3 even the force thunder hammers 🙁
because if a force weapon has it’s own special rule class it as unusal. and unusual being ap3. so i may be wrong, but that also mean the dreadnoughts nemesis weapon is ap3??
I think the codex has to explicitly say the force weapon is unusual or that is classed as something else (the FAQs for 6th ed will clarify), otherwise what ever the weapon looks like on the model is what it is ( e.g anything that looks vaguely like an axe such as a halberd is classed as a force axe). I suspect that any codex with weapons that have force weapons with special rules will be treated as unusual force weapons.. Regarding the hammers and dread close combat weapon, the grey knight codex with the 6th ed FAQ says that… Read more »
The codex FAQ says all nemesis force weapons are unusual, unless otherwises stated. The codex states clearly that the deamon hammer is treated as a thunder hammer as per the rule book, and the doom fist as a dread close combat weapon as per the rule book. (this doesn’t negate the force or deamon bane rules). So the hammer is Sx2, AP 2. But you are right the main rule book says force weapons with special rules is treated as unusual (and all the nemesis weapons have the extra deamon bane rule), I guess we will need a clarification from… Read more »
Your first post was correct – all unusual except hammers (Thunder hammers) and doomfists (Dreadnought ccw)
Swapping to hammers would mean going at the same time with less save, not a great idea. Swords may have more use. As will the dude leading the charge with the warding stave (stupid all paladins characters)
Darrell seems very positive about vanilla marines. I wonder if they shot this vid before Andy announced yesterday he was getting them on Fridays Live rounds :-).
Actually Thunderfire cannons are quite good now, full strength for the blast template, and with the artillary piece rules its toughness 7 with 2 wounds with a 3+ save.
Have it stand behind a Ageis defence line so it gets a 3+ cover save (because its a fortification) and have the Techmarine fix it when it gets hit. it can be quite beefy now.
Fix what? It isn’t a vehicle and you don’t take away hull points.
Yes, I have loved and played the TFC for a long time. It was the most underrated unit in the codex. Now it will be amazing as it’s even more durable. You’re wrong about the Aegis defence line, though. It is classed as Battlefield Debris (Defence Line), which gives it a 4+ cover. It is NOT a ruin, so it can’t be bolstered (only ruins can). No repairs of the TFC or the ADL ’cause neither are vehicles. Still, 2 wounds. I’ll keep putting mine in a ruin and bolstering that for all 3+ saves.
can missle launchers no use Flakk missiles as per the rulebook? (i heard some people on Warseer saying you couldn’t as the option isnt in the codex)?
It isn’t in the codex (digital or book) so my guess is no. It says in the rule book that some will have the option of upgrading to this. I hope that it is only specialized forces otherwise long fang spam will ruin flyers.
Seen a lot od discussion on this and the answer has always been the book stats Krak and frag as standard issue only – so until someone gets the flakk option no-one has them.
Avengingangel :The Flakk missiles were not in any of the FAQ’s so no, no-one has them at the moment.
It’s just GW getting people to buy flyers and senerey so they use them as Anti-flyer. Once the next codex’s come’s out, they will be added to the faqs.
Vehicles are extremely weak now, I can see full infantry armies coming into play
mark me down guys but wait and see
I don’t think they are – more i tinhk they’ll be more reliable. Instead of immobilised for little shots you just keep going, but lose a hull point. Also, who isn’t fed up with ‘stunning’ a ruddy stormraven and seeing it carry on happily?
I would say that vehicles have been normalised, rather than nerfed. The most extreme cases no longer apply; that of penetrating hits causing nothing but shaken or stunned, or one glancing hit immobilising it.
I like that with the rule clarification on combat squads embarked in a vehicle that Sicarius actually has a role again. Imagine this, he grants a tactical squad infiltrate which they then use to combat squad and outflank with. Thanks to the escort rule on the Stormtalon you could escort each combat squad and the vehicle bringing a fiery death from above screaming in overhead of your tactical squad. I personally will love it when I have three flyers show up with twin assault cannons blazing at any light vehicles anywhere up to 60″ from a board edge. With the… Read more »
On your T6 Power Maul guy, remember the Power Maul is AP4! So “and he’s got a power weapon” given the prevalence of power armoured opponents he won’t deny armour saves to a lot of people.
True, but he is good for taking on some lesser characters and surviving
I’m not enjoyin’ the BoW coverage so far… When the opening of a review is that ‘everyone gets something it’s great!’ then yer missing the point. And spending way too much time on challenges. Haven’t they ever played fantasy? It’s esentially the same thing, and they’re clearly still not getting how it works. Listening to Darrell et al one would think it’s the single biggest element of the game now.
They have taken a different tack to consider begineers, which I actually think is good, and as it phase by phase you may need to see all coverage then pass judgement, but each to their own. Challenges are not a big thing in terms of mechanic, but they do add another level of game play. One massive difference between fantasy and 40k challenges is 40k it is viable to use lowly sargeants etc to neutralise characters for a round because of the lack of overkill. It also allows characters a greater degree of survivability against the powerfist sgt etc. There… Read more »
Yeah this one is a balancing act. We did take the decision to have a big part of the content focus on the beginner, because we feel its important for helping the hobby spread (a goal we’re always harping on about) and I’m going to stick by that approach as the right thing to do. When a codex comes out and we do a themed week, we can cheese hunt and analyse to death each unit and how the army is effected tactically and strategically. For a rule book change, it will take weeks to cover everything in any real… Read more »
That’s fair enough and I applaud the appealing to newcomers- but that raises the question of whether ‘chese hunting’ is right- the game’s meant to be fun- a game. Isn’t this telling new people that they have to build a specific army to win? Winning is apparently everything to 40k, which is sad given that this edition, like Fantasy 8th, brings a lot of the fun back onto the table.
I may have misunderstood you 🙂 I thought you we’re talking about all the coverage to date. “I’m not enjoyin’ the BoW coverage so far” And put that down to us not getting into the meat and bones of the new edition quick enough 🙂 Reviews like this particular vid are a bit different and are more focused on the Meta Game, where (unlike playing a game) it’s about what you think is effective and what’s not. Does raise a point though of a ‘Meta Game’ vid where the army has been designed for the most fun, excitement and cinematic… Read more »
This might come as a shock to you, but some of us don’t play fantasy.
That shirt will become legendary like Elvis’s hair and John Lennon’s Glasses.
what makes thunderhammer and stormshields so much better now?
Power weapons are only AP3 now, so they get a 2+ against those, while the 3++ protects them against any AP2 fire like plasma. Meanwhile they hit back in CC with hammers which are AP2. Generally they are much tougher to kill while still being able to pound anything back.
Indeed and to put that into a bit of context my Blood Angels mate (and many other BA players) always go on about Mephiston is. Doing some mathhammer with Meph weighing in at 250 points vs a single 40 point SM Assault Terminator with Thunder Hammer/Stormshield, Meph would take 3 rounds of combat to dispatch that one Termie Average 10.8 attacks to an unsaved wound), and that’s even him activating his force weapon to take off that second wound. In the same time the Termie would do 2-3 wounds (average 2.4 attacks to an unsaved wound) to Meph essentially taking… Read more »
I don’t know about missile launcher not getting flakk. Under the weapons in the reference section they get it standard. And don’t we follow these pages over codex now, because of the new rules and effects? Page 415 ish I think. Riflemen dreads, Ironclad as mentioned, THSS Termies as always are still good if not obviously better. Vanguard might have lost some of their value as they can be snapshot on the way in. Anyhow, in either case I don’t think SM got a boost so much as that other armies that were stronger in the assault phase aren’t as… Read more »
@zawyvern2 While flakk missiles are listed under the weapon summary for missile launchers, if you read their entry on pg57 it clearly states only SOME missile launchers have the ability to upgrade to flakk, and until they tell you which ones in an FAQ, WD article or new codex then noone can take them.
Agreed about the missile launchers, if you had acces to them it would be in the FAQ. As for the vulnerability of vehicles I played my first 6th game at the weekend, and my Necron warrior unit zapped 3 hull points of a razorback in a single round of shooting its front armour at long range. Ok the Gaus weapons have a special rile that glances on a penetration roll of 6 regardless of Armour, but it was still an eye opener.
@bigbri thanks for that bro. 😀 That makes me worry much less against missile launcher spam
Waiting for the Orks 😀
Speaking of Marneus Calgar, if you make a generic space marine captain or eligible character (or a wolf lord, in the particular case I’ve been planning for a while) with two power fists, do they get all their attacks at x2 strength, AP2?
I play space marines and grey knights, most of my knights have halberds and the rest of the fancy wargear, I’m playing against armies that don’t have hammers, I’m fine, I’ve actually benefited from it. I always wanted the storm shield and thunder hammer termies, now another reason to get a set.